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Clemsons are very solid and with a Japanese destroyer backing them up are phenomenal. They win destroyer duels pretty much guaranteed, because they can launch one set off torps early to herd the enemy or score one kill, and then they've got guns and torpedoes that kill in short order while the other destroyer is on the back foot from having to dodge and getting hammered by shellfire. Going up against bigger ships, one smoking and the other hidden behind is great, because the one spotted can throw down a huge cone, and then the hidden one can drop to hit once the enemy's locked into the turn, and Japanese fast torps can catch up nicely with US ones to make dodging impossible.
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Mar 17, 2015 16:48
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| # ? May 10, 2024 02:38 |
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Let's stop arguing about destroyers and battleships and instead just all agree that carriers basically suck and need fixing to be fun.
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Mar 17, 2015 16:48
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hopterque posted:"I watched a destroyer drive up to a battleship's broadside and try and fight him there for like 15 seconds and he got owned by secondaries, therefore they are really good and destroyers suck!" No, reading comprehension, try again. I watched a destroyer come out of smoke from behind an island, approach a Kongo from the front quarter at full speed, and in the process of of reaching a favourable torp angle, turning, aiming and firing, the destroyer - a tier 3 - took 3 secondary salvos and died shortly after firing the torpedoes.
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Mar 17, 2015 16:50
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NTRabbit posted:How do you not? I've seen a DD explode in three seconday salvos from a Kongo, and my Clemson will routinely take 1/3 to 1/2 hp damage in a single pass on a Kongo or Fuso I don't have a Fuso yet, but I am fairly sure my Kongo's secondaries have yet to net a kill on their own and I have had a number of DDs get with in 4km of me.
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Mar 17, 2015 16:51
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NTRabbit posted:No, reading comprehension, try again. I watched a destroyer come out of smoke from behind an island, approach a Kongo from the front quarter at full speed, and in the process of of reaching a favourable torp angle, turning, aiming and firing, the destroyer - a tier 3 - took 3 secondary salvos and died shortly after firing the torpedoes. Are you sure that none of those were from a primary? Because at that range primaries absolutely annihilate DDs and are pretty easy to hit with since the shell travel time is basically instant.
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Mar 17, 2015 16:53
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Prav posted:Are you sure that none of those were from a primary? Because at that range primaries absolutely annihilate DDs and are pretty easy to hit with since the shell travel time is basically instant. Primaries from a Kongo one shot a destroyer and no, the Kongo was aiming the other side dueling I think a Myogi. The only other red ship nearby was a carrier visible in the distance trying to recover planes.
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Mar 17, 2015 16:57
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NTRabbit posted:No, reading comprehension, try again. I watched a destroyer come out of smoke from behind an island, approach a Kongo from the front quarter at full speed, and in the process of of reaching a favourable torp angle, turning, aiming and firing, the destroyer - a tier 3 - took 3 secondary salvos and died shortly after firing the torpedoes. 3 Secondary salvos is like 10+ seconds of time. And even IF he had been there for one second and been oneshot by a secondary gun, strange poo poo happens sometimes. I've caught a stray battleship shell from across the map and been blown up in one hit while I was moving full speed after making a turn, does that mean battleships are broken and whatever I was driving is worthless? No, it doesn't, that would be really stupid. You basically watched a pubby do something dumb and get owned, therefore destroyers suck and battleships are overpowered.
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Mar 17, 2015 16:58
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Hagop posted:How do you DD drivers even get hit by secondaries, my secondaries gunners are hard put to land 1 out of every 6 shots on a heavy cruiser. I feel like my secondaries would never manage to kill a DD unless he drove up to 2 km came to a dead stop and waited 5 minuets. When your tier 6 DD has a range of 4.5KM on torps you kind of have to get within secondary gun range to hit with them.
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Mar 17, 2015 16:59
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Prav posted:Are you sure that none of those were from a primary? Because at that range primaries absolutely annihilate DDs and are pretty easy to hit with since the shell travel time is basically instant. I did this to someone and my primary shell impacted at the same time as my secondaries and he was like "ONE SHOT BY SECONDARIES WTF". Actually, I wonder if that was NTrabbit.
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Mar 17, 2015 16:59
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hopterque posted:I did this to someone and my primary shell impacted at the same time as my secondaries and he was like "ONE SHOT BY SECONDARIES WTF". Actually, I wonder if that was NTrabbit. The Kongo guns were pointing in the absolute opposite direction
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Mar 17, 2015 17:00
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NTRabbit posted:The Kongo guns were pointing in the absolute opposite direction So possibly there is one instance of a Kongo's secondaries "one shotting" a DD. That really doesn't mean anything. Hell I was one shot by a dive bomber in my DD while driving like a madman stupid rng poo poo happens. The secondary gun may have just got a lucky shot into the DDs ammo rack or something.
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Mar 17, 2015 17:02
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It was 3 shots, not one, and sure it's an outlier but secondaries still routinely chew up a lot of hp on a destroyer, and the very short range torpedoes on the Clemson mean that you have to take that damage if you want to hit a Japanese tier 5 or higher battleship with torpedoes - hence the Clemson has poo poo torpedoes, and the best thing about the ship is the firepower the upgraded twin turrets can put out. Simple stuff.
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Mar 17, 2015 17:05
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Seriously, bad RNG happens, that's how things go. That doesn't mean poo poo about how good or bad the ships involved are.
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Mar 17, 2015 17:06
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NTRabbit really is quite impressive with his utter bullheadedness in completely disregarding all other people's experiences to the contrary of his own haphazard conclusions. He has a long and storied history of doing it in the tanks thread. "This thing is poo poo, it can't do X at all!" "Nah man, I've been doing X with the thing just fine" "No no no I tried X once and it didn't work, it can't be done! Thing is poo poo!"
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Mar 17, 2015 17:06
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I've played a decent amount of both American and Japanese destroyers, and I've started leaning towards American. Lower tier Japanese destroyers' guns are serviceable if you get the rotation speed skill. It's a >50% boost, and if you have it you're basically competitive in a gunfight. At high tiers, you're screwed though. The Fletcher and Gearing are putting out 15 and 20 rounds per minute, respectively, and can turn their guns on a dime. The Shimikaze has the lowest gun rotation speed of any destroyer and puts out a shot every 12 seconds. Basically, the tradeoff for being completely helpless in a destroyer duel is either 2 or 5 more torpedoes, a bit more damage on the torpedoes, slightly higher top speed, and a bit more stealth. The top torpedoes on the Gearing and the Shimikaze have about the same speed and range. Regarding the Pensacola, it's not really that great, but it's not bad. I enjoyed the Mogami with the 6" guns a lot more, but you can still put out a lot of damage if you get the drop on someone. I think the Baltimore and Des Moines will redeem that line, though. 6 second cruiser shots and >50k hp is battleship firepower and health on an agile cruiser frame.
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Mar 17, 2015 17:07
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This should be fun. According to you thread goers which type of ship is the most op??
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Mar 17, 2015 17:07
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hopterque posted:Seriously, bad RNG happens, that's how things go. That doesn't mean poo poo about how good or bad the ships involved are. The Clemson has poo poo, short range torpedoes. It's not even a debate, it's facts listed down the right hand side of your harbor screen. OhsH posted:This should be fun. According to you thread goers which type of ship is the most op?? Battleships are the undisputed king of the current patch
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Mar 17, 2015 17:07
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American destroyers are seriously fun and effective, way more so than the japanese ones in my experience. I drive for wherever the enemy destroyers are, commence murdering them, and then stab a bunch of fat ships in the guts with point blank torps or go hunt the enemy carriers if the path is open.OhsH posted:This should be fun. According to you thread goers which type of ship is the most op?? The Kongo battleship at tier 5 and the Cleveland cruiser at Tier 6 are probably the two best ships in the game for their tier right now
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Mar 17, 2015 17:09
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NTRabbit posted:The Clemson has poo poo, short range torpedoes. It's not even a debate, it's facts listed down the right hand side of your harbor screen. Clemson owns when you dont drive like a retard. Mayhaps pop around the corner on 2 bbs not payn attn. Which btw is how you should be driving your destroyer. All focused on getting close. Or making them drive to you.
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Mar 17, 2015 17:11
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OhsH posted:All focused on getting close. Clearly you've not read a single thing
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Mar 17, 2015 17:13
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OhsH posted:Clemson owns when you dont drive like a retard. Mayhaps pop around the corner on 2 bbs not payn attn. Which btw is how you should be driving your destroyer. All focused on getting close. Or making them drive to you. As you can probably see by the last few pages and his posts in this thread in general, arguing with him is completely pointless. NTRabbit posted:Clearly you've not read a single thing This is positively unbelievably ironic.
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Mar 17, 2015 17:13
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NTRabbit posted:Clearly you've not read a single thing Lol peace out uninstall the game because you wont find fun here.
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Mar 17, 2015 17:14
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I have attacked one Kongo in my tier 4 DD. I saw it in a channel between two islands on my mini-map, went around them, came straight at it from the front, and blasted a full load of torps into it's side as I passed by it. I think I took 2k damage, but completely and utterly destroyed him. The worst thing about DDs is that they seem a bit slow, sometimes. They just aren't that fast. Maybe they could be a little faster, considering their whole gimmick revolves around agility and stealth?  But they're completely optional. You don't have to play them, so, don't, if you hate them so much. I wonder when the game's going to go into open beta, or release, for that matter? I enjoy playing it, but I don't want to play too much when I know all my neat toys are just going to get taken away.
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Mar 17, 2015 17:15
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Torpedeos on the American destroyers including the clemesen are secondary weapons to be used when the opportunity presents itself don't try to force a torpedo run in those ships. Last night I did drove my BB right between two enemy BB's and all our secondaries and primaries were firing at each other and it was cool as gently caress fyi. I took heavy damage but while they focused on me my team melted them.
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Mar 17, 2015 17:15
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Funnily I really liked my fully upgraded Pensacola. Ten 8 inch guns on a reasonably laid out ship is all kinds of nice. 8 inch guns are so handy to have if you need to chunk a battleship that it's worth being less good at destroyer killing in my opinion. The New Orleans has some real advantages, like having six guns front and better AA, but the firepower isn't improved, and the same goes for the Baltimore, at which point it looks a bit anemic next to tens. I still hope the Cleveland get a turret speed and maybe an HP buff to make it a more agile bastard of a ship, and gets put a tier higher in a light cruiser tree, potentially with an rof buff if it needs one. Battleships are hellish powerful and good to learn in because you get to take 25 second breaks to read the battle in between salvoes. Do so and learn to read which way a game's going. xthetenth fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Mar 17, 2015 |
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Mar 17, 2015 17:16
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BadLlama posted:Torpedeos on the American destroyers including the clemesen are secondary weapons to be used when the opportunity presents itself don't try to force a torpedo run in those ships. Yes, the guns on the Clemson are the best feature, which was my point. Some people apparently incapable of grasping the simple fact that slow, short range torpedoes are poo poo torpedoes, and no amount of hand waving makes them otherwise.
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Mar 17, 2015 17:18
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BadLlama posted:Torpedeos on the American destroyers including the clemesen are secondary weapons to be used when the opportunity presents itself don't try to force a torpedo run in those ships. I did this earlier in my Fuso against 3 enemy fusos and two destroyers. I died but not before killing both destroyers, one of the BBs and heavily wounding one of the others while my teammates focused down the third. Sometimes this game feels really great when people play well together. NTRabbit posted:Some people apparently incapable of grasping the simple fact... You posting about other people not grasping simple stuff is pretty hilarious, actually hopterque fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Mar 17, 2015 |
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Mar 17, 2015 17:19
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[q[/b]uote="NTRabbit" post="442848341"] You're right, American torpedoes do get better - at tier 7, where they push out to 6.8km, matched by the 6km secondary range on the Nagato. Only the American tier 8-10 destroyers can actually safely launch torpedoes outside battleship secondary range and still reliably hit. At tier 4-6 their torpedoes are dregs, and if not for the good guns they'd be completely useless. [/quote] Back to being NTRabbit!
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Mar 17, 2015 17:23
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NTRabbit posted:Yes, the guns on the Clemson are the best feature, which was my point. Some people apparently incapable of grasping the simple fact that slow, short range torpedoes are poo poo torpedoes, and no amount of hand waving makes them otherwise. I disagree about them being poo poo due to the range. Yes it makes torpeding ships harder but you also can't be a retard about it and just charge a ship to get into range. While my current DD only has a range of 4.5km on the torps they each do 18K damage which is pretty insane and lets you completely gank a full health BB in one volley.
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Mar 17, 2015 17:26
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Another vote for NTRabbit not knowing how to play US destroyers. I've been both having a blast and absolutely annihilating battleships in my Clemson and Nicholas. There are enough islands on all the maps you play that getting focused by a battleship means you weren't paying attention. I'll gladly take the 2k less torp range for the absolute hilarity of hiding behind an island, then steaming out and putting 6 torps in a Kongo, then smoking and getting behind the next island before he even has the chance to respond. Hell, I'm usually firing HE at his turrets the entire time, taking out multiple guns and lighting him on fire for added insult. I'm not trying to charge 15k across open water toward a prepared battleship and wondering WHY AM I DEAD NOW?!?! Additionally, the fact that you get 12 torpedoes is a major advantage. That means that that cruiser that was escorting the Kongo? Also gets a spread if I can get between them. Yeah, I may eat half my health in damage - so what? I just took out two more powerful ships for that price. In both Ships and Tanks, HP pools (and the proper use thereof) are weapons you can use to bully down others.
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Mar 17, 2015 17:47
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NTRabbit posted:Yes, the guns on the Clemson are the best feature, which was my point. Some people apparently incapable of grasping the simple fact that slow, short range torpedoes are poo poo torpedoes, and no amount of hand waving makes them otherwise. You didn't just say they're the best feature, you said they're the only good feature. And we were trying to tell you that no, that's not true, because while the torps might be worse than the jap ones on a tube-by-tube basis, they are still a shitload of torps, which in fact is a good feature to have.
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Mar 17, 2015 17:48
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Nordick posted:You didn't just say they're the best feature, you said they're the only good feature. And we were trying to tell you that no, that's not true, because while the torps might be worse than the jap ones on a tube-by-tube basis, they are still a shitload of torps, which in fact is a good feature to have. I very much prefer less good torps than more poo poo torps
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Mar 17, 2015 17:52
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NTRabbit posted:I very much prefer less good torps than more poo poo torps Are you familiar with the meanings of words? Like holy hell dude, it's a semantics battle with somebody who doesn't actually care what he says as long as it's vaguely similar to what he means.
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Mar 17, 2015 18:00
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xthetenth posted:Are you familiar with the meanings of words? Like holy hell dude, it's a semantics battle with somebody who doesn't actually care what he says as long as it's vaguely similar to what he means. I prefer smaller numbers of good torps as found on Japanese ships to larger numbers of poo poo torps as found on American ships. Do you want me to switch to proper English for the whole sentence fragment now as well?
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Mar 17, 2015 18:07
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NTRabbit posted:I prefer smaller numbers of good torps as found on Japanese ships to larger numbers of poo poo torps as found on American ships. Do you want me to switch to proper English for the whole sentence fragment now as well? I dont think the poo poo torps are as poo poo as you think. But all thoughts are subjective.
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Mar 17, 2015 18:09
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tank talk here I like tanks. Do you like tanks? Tanks are cool. You know what's great? Shooting tanks. Sometimes we call them tonks because that's code for tanks. As in we will say: stronk tonk. What's great about tanks is that you can literally talk about them anywhere, and it won't disrupt the flow of conversation in any sense whatsoever. So do you like tonks? I can't wait to get home to play tonks with some other special people in my life on the internet.
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Mar 17, 2015 18:12
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KaiserSchnitzel posted:tank talk here Iirc germans originally called them land ships.
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Mar 17, 2015 18:13
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landships_Committee
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Mar 17, 2015 18:14
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drat, who wasn't calling them landships back then????
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Mar 17, 2015 18:16
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Hey is there any way I can get that Japanese premium cruiser that has like 8 torpedo bays? I am sure its nothing beyond a gimmick but that gimmick looks hilarious.
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Mar 17, 2015 18:18
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