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Dan Didio posted:If you have no idea what you're talking about, maybe you shouldn't talk about it. Even if you're refusing to make judgements aside from, y'know, claiming one side is holding a grudge.
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Mar 18, 2015 04:00
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CapnAndy posted:If you have any more idea than I do, I would genuinely like to hear about it. That's why I asked you in the first place. And I already responded to your question.
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Mar 18, 2015 04:14
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WickedHate posted:Thank you! I didn't want to bring it up because I brought it up a lot already and didn't want to get annoying about it. gently caress people who would get annoyed at that.
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Mar 18, 2015 04:17
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Senor Candle posted:gently caress people who would get annoyed at that. Encouraging! I appriciate it.
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Mar 18, 2015 04:28
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You know what, gently caress it, it's not worth it, I'm walking away from this, it's dumb.
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Mar 18, 2015 04:34
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Yeah best get out before you make yourself look worse.
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Mar 18, 2015 05:19
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The fact that people are taking this as an opportunity to insult each other is kind of the lesson from this whole ordeal. People on the internet take stupid poo poo as an excuse to get so hateful of each other. I hope none of you are looking for work in the comic field because this poo poo will surely haunt you.
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Mar 18, 2015 05:42
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I would like to work in comics but DC keep rejecting my script saying I need to rewrite the bit where Aquaman wets himself to temporarily boost his powers.
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Mar 18, 2015 06:32
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Speaking of Aquadudeman, Jason Momoa signed a fan's UNITE THE SEVEN poster with 'gently caress Marvel'
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Mar 18, 2015 06:51
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FilthyImp posted:Speaking of Aquadudeman, Jason Momoa signed a fan's UNITE THE SEVEN poster with 'gently caress Marvel' Looking forward to the FF invading Monday Night Justice League.
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Mar 18, 2015 06:58
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CapnAndy posted:You know what, gently caress it, it's not worth it, I'm walking away from this, it's dumb. Don't forget your ball.
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Mar 18, 2015 07:31
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FilthyImp posted:Speaking of Aquadudeman, Jason Momoa signed a fan's UNITE THE SEVEN poster with 'gently caress Marvel' Is it 1980 already?
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Mar 18, 2015 08:13
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drat myself for not having comixology. I hate having to wait until the daytime to get new issues.
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Mar 18, 2015 09:01
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Shawn posted:The fact that people are taking this as an opportunity to insult each other is kind of the lesson from this whole ordeal. People on the internet take stupid poo poo as an excuse to get so hateful of each other. I hope none of you are looking for work in the comic field because this poo poo will surely haunt you. The secret is for people to not continually harass anybody over liking/disliking different comics. Why so many people in comics find this hard to believe or do  Lurdiak posted:Looking forward to the FF invading Monday Night Justice League. I will give all my money to whichever superhero decides to settle their differences with a Yappapi Indian strap match. Waterhaul fucked around with this message at 11:28 on Mar 18, 2015 |
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Mar 18, 2015 10:08
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Speaking of disliking comics, I started reading Prophet a while ago and when I started I really liked it but around issue 40 or so got really burned out on it. It felt like I had just completely lost the thread of what was happening and it became a mess.
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Mar 18, 2015 12:24
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FilthyImp posted:Speaking of Aquadudeman, Jason Momoa signed a fan's UNITE THE SEVEN poster with 'gently caress Marvel' How gritty and realistic of him!
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Mar 18, 2015 13:09
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Lurdiak posted:Looking forward to the FF invading Monday Night Justice League. Can't wait for 20 years from then when Reed claims that this action singularly killed DC.
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Mar 18, 2015 13:40
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WickedHate posted:drat myself for not having comixology. I hate having to wait until the daytime to get new issues. I'm gonna bite but, uh, is there a reason you don't have comixology? because you could sign up, you know. that's a potential action you could take to fix this problem. also most books don't seem to go up until eight or nine in the morning from what I remember. but I don't usually grab anything first thing besides that time hawkeye 19 finally came out.
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Mar 18, 2015 15:24
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I'm not trying to defend or condemn anyone in the D'Orazio/Sims stakes, but back when D'Orazio was really actively blogging and was the head of Friends of Lulu and eventually wrote Punisher (like 2008-2010?) Chris Sims wasn't really coming from a "position of power", i.e. he just had his own relatively popular blog and hadn't turned into Comics Alliance's Batmanologist yet. And in terms of things being "scrubbed from the Internet", that's mainly a function of D'Orazio repeatedly deleting posts/her entire blog for reasons unknown to me. I remember a lot of exchanges (and I don't recall the specific situations at the moment, so I'm going to use an actual example that was from a different former blogger of the same era) that were basically "I haven't read the issue in question, but I cannot believe that Marvel published a comic where Wolverine murders Northstar because he found out he was gay, this disgusts me!" "Having read the issue in question, that isn't what happens." "IT'S STILL DISGUSTING THAT I COULD HAVE INTERPRETED IT AS SUCH. Plus, it's horrible they killed off their only gay hero." "He's already back from the dead and here are a list of other gay heroes currently appearing in their books." "That is irrelevant, he's the only gay character I was aware of, and it still sounds homophobic and you've never met a gay person in your life." "Actually, I am gay." "You don't get to tell me how to feel, I feel personally attacked. Homophobe." Like I said, that was a different blogger but it typifies a lot of the conversations on her blog. 1) It is correct to say that no one can tell anyone else how to feel, but pointing out counterfactual statements is still a valid thing. 2) Just because someone was making knee-jerk reactions and people would (sometimes) respond reasonably and the original poster (D'Orazio) responds badly doesn't mean that people didn't cross lines, I feel like the alleged "what are you going to do, cry like a girl?" comment crosses said line. 3) My recollection of this isn't any more valid than D'Orazio's. 4) She was very bad at issuing apologies and was pretty quick to jump to "I view this as a personal attack". 5) All of this was 5+ years ago and I like to think I am a better, more empathetic person now than I was five years ago, and I assume this is also the case for D'Orazio and Sims. 6) Not having followed either of their posting careers closely, the idea that 2010 Sims was able to be the ringleader or primary source of dissenting comments re: any of D'Orazio's online or printed activity rings hollow, given that D'Orazio was a polarizing figure whose work repeatedly received negative responses from various industry and internet people in that time period. It sounds kind of like Dan Slott deciding that the BSS thread "coordinated" all negative response to his comics.
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Mar 18, 2015 15:46
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To be honest, none of that sounds particularly surprising.
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Mar 18, 2015 15:51
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Maybe people should bring all this up with Chris Sims', given he's the one who feels he was in the wrong. I'm sure he'll be very relieved.
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Mar 18, 2015 16:09
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Dan Didio posted:Maybe people should bring all this up with Chris Sims', given he's the one who feels he was in the wrong. I'm sure he'll be very relieved.
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Mar 18, 2015 16:15
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Edge & Christian posted:I'm not disagreeing with that or his own feelings but there were people on here (who may have just been skimming the posts or whatever, I don't know) who were somehow equating this with like, Brian Wood and talking about being sad to know they can't support Bad People like Chris Sims and Brian Wood and Scott Lobdell and whatever, and that seemed really disproportionate and I was trying to provide context but yeah, I'll forward this post to him ASAP. Who equated this to what Brian Wood did? More importantly, what I really don't understand is why a bunch of people seem to insist on coming out of the woodwork to cast these weird implicit aspersions about what really happened back then when by and large both parties broadly agree on what happened and Chris Sims accepts the blame. Shirkelton fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Mar 18, 2015 |
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Mar 18, 2015 16:17
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Dan Didio posted:More importantly, what I really don't understand is why a bunch of people seem to insist on coming out of the woodwork to cast these weird implicit aspersions about what really happened back then when by and large both parties broadly agree on what happened and Chris Sims accepts the blame. People are simply trying to process how upset they should be with a creator they like in a situation with missing information. And I wouldn't say that both parties agree, since Chris Sims' seemingly sincere apology was met with basically a middle finger, which seems like a strong indication that D'Orazio doesn't consider Sims to realize how badly he hurt her.
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Mar 18, 2015 16:33
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Dan Didio posted:Who equated this to what Brian Wood did? I don't think the agreement is really as broad as you're stating and Sims is doing the respectful thing and apologizing, and you're right, it's really on me for "coming out of the woodwork" regarding this. D'Orazio has undoubtedly had some incredibly lovely things said to her online and some incredibly making GBS threads things happen to her in a professional setting, but this another example of weird self-promotion (? there has to be a better term for this). It's not my job to interpret her motivations though. I'm not even a fan of Sims's writing, I'm not planning on buying X-Men 92, but I also don't see how anything being laid out by D'Orazio is proportionate to the reality of Internet 2008-2010 I also experienced.
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Mar 18, 2015 16:34
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Lurdiak posted:People are simply trying to process how upset they should be with a creator they like in a situation with missing information. And I wouldn't say that both parties agree, since Chris Sims' seemingly sincere apology was met with basically a middle finger, which seems like a strong indication that D'Orazio doesn't consider Sims to realize how badly he hurt her. Well, yeah, obviously she doesn't agree on exactly how damaging this was and that's a given, but my point is, both seem to agree on the events and that it wasn't her fault and that she's not, at least, misrepresenting the 'facts' as it were. I mean, I don't want to imply or even outright state that people are being dick about this, but I really, genuinely don't understand what stuff like this quote:4) She was very bad at issuing apologies and was pretty quick to jump to "I view this as a personal attack". and the earlier, "well, she's obviously carrying a grudge" are bringing to this discussion other than trying to make her look worse for no real reason. I'm sure she's not some flawless person, but Sims' doesn't blame her and completely accepts he's at fault, so why are people muddying it further? It just strikes me as really inappropriate and is really uncomfortable to read, I'll be perfectly honest. Though it's a given that I could very well be reading a lot into this that isn't there, I just don't get why stuff like this keeps coming up, even here.
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Mar 18, 2015 16:40
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apart from the fact that they are (or were) duking it out in a public forum i can't really wrap my head around a way this is anyone's business but the two people involved
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Mar 18, 2015 16:41
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:apart from the fact that they are (or were) duking it out in a public forum i can't really wrap my head around a way this is anyone's business but the two people involved She publically called him out on her past behaviour, but it's a really, really good point you make and that's kind of why I don't really like the way people are talking about it, I guess.
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Mar 18, 2015 16:44
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Part of the issue is that once it becomes a public issue (and it was made a public issue) and once it goes from "Person X did Specific Thing" into "Person X and a Bunch of Other People I Will Not Name or Identify But It was A Lot of People And They Did a Bunch of Really Bad Things I Won't Even Get Into" I always get uncomfortable, and I probably kneejerk responded to this one because specifically in this case I was also a Comics Blogger Who Disagreed with Her at various points five years ago, who was identified as a misogynist and homophobe and racist and etc. for disagreeing with blog posts. She wasn't just saying "Chris Sims did a bad thing" but "Chris Sims was the ringleader of an unnamed group of people who as a group constantly harassed me and make the comics industry hateful and unwelcoming and etc." which is about more than just Chris Sims. It's stupid and petty and I shouldn't care and I wasn't named and I don't need to be posting about it and probably about five people actually remember the posts in question. And yeah, there's no real way to say "here is a bulletpoint, sourced list of every individual who said something lovely about me personally and not my writing/opinion, CERTIFIED TO BE A PERSONAL ATTACK from five years ago." I didn't need to post any of this. But I'd argue no one needed to post any of this.
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Mar 18, 2015 16:59
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A Tin Of Beans posted:I'm gonna bite but, uh, is there a reason you don't have comixology? because you could sign up, you know. that's a potential action you could take to fix this problem. My dad, who also likes comics, prefers physical copies, and most issues we just read in the store because we are remarkably poor.
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Mar 18, 2015 18:35
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Hey guys, I was trying to explain the whole "Doom and Valeria Richards" relationship as it currently is in Marvel comics (Explaining him as babysitter Doom/Uncle Doom) to someone and the person asked for a good jumping-in point to read those stories, and I had no idea. Can you help? I only see the individual panels posted here and there.
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Mar 18, 2015 20:28
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Vargo posted:Hey guys, I was trying to explain the whole "Doom and Valeria Richards" relationship as it currently is in Marvel comics (Explaining him as babysitter Doom/Uncle Doom) to someone and the person asked for a good jumping-in point to read those stories, and I had no idea. Can you help? I only see the individual panels posted here and there. Jonathan Hickman's Fantastic Four run. Start with the Dark Reign miniseries.
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Mar 18, 2015 20:29
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:apart from the fact that they are (or were) duking it out in a public forum i can't really wrap my head around a way this is anyone's business but the two people involved Because in the current climate of female harassment one of the people involved, Sims, is getting a Marvel book (I think it's a mini? It's one of those secret wars things) and D'Orazio (I assume) felt that it wasn't fair that he would get scott free for all the things he caused/felt that people should know about it. The fact that he's got a Marvel gig helps to make the issue more relevant. I do think that Sims should have apologized (if he felt remorse) before, because now it just seems like he's doing damage control instead of sincere atonement.
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Mar 18, 2015 20:32
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Vargo posted:Hey guys, I was trying to explain the whole "Doom and Valeria Richards" relationship as it currently is in Marvel comics (Explaining him as babysitter Doom/Uncle Doom) to someone and the person asked for a good jumping-in point to read those stories, and I had no idea. Can you help? I only see the individual panels posted here and there.  Just throw the Hickman FF omniboo at them. redbackground fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Mar 18, 2015 |
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Mar 18, 2015 20:35
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redbackground posted:Doom is Valeria's cool uncle. Doom is a better father figure than Reed. Doom still enforces strict bedtimes. Doom also takes her out for ice-cream.
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Mar 18, 2015 20:37
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Gaz-L posted:Jonathan Hickman's Fantastic Four run. Start with the Dark Reign miniseries. Nah you want the Waid run. 
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Mar 18, 2015 20:38
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zoux posted:Nah you want the Waid series. That really shows the bad side of their relationship, as he uses her to trap her brother in hell, and torture the rest of her family. The Hickman run is when the current relationship begins.
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Mar 18, 2015 20:40
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Vincent posted:Because in the current climate of female harassment one of the people involved, Sims, is getting a Marvel book (I think it's a mini? It's one of those secret wars things) and D'Orazio (I assume) felt that it wasn't fair that he would get scott free for all the things he caused/felt that people should know about it. The fact that he's got a Marvel gig helps to make the issue more relevant. Yeah, that's a big misstep on his part. I've had the same "poo poo, I hosed up, and communication has broken down, so better to just break clean and not force them to deal with my rear end in a top hat self anymore" reaction where it feels like apologising will just rub salt in an open wound, but it does look really bad to those that haven't actually seen that he has made an effort to comport himself differently well before he got this gig.
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Mar 18, 2015 20:44
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bobkatt013 posted:That really shows the bad side of their relationship, as he uses her to trap her brother in hell, and torture the rest of her family. The Hickman run is when the current relationship begins. Still, everyone should read the Waid run.
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Mar 18, 2015 20:51
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zoux posted:Still, everyone should read the Waid run. Oh yeah. Its a great run, but if looking for the Doom/Valeria relationship its a really bad place to start.
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Mar 18, 2015 20:52
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