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I saw this Onion video and thought of this thread. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CqpEacxdS0
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Mar 18, 2015 00:56
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| # ? Jun 9, 2024 15:57 |
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I beat Chapter 11! Unfortunately I didn't get any legitimitely amazing units this time - Angus ended up lacking in a lot of places despite his high strength - but Victoria and Willow were hella fast and managed to put in a good show because of it. Rowan kind of underwhelmed me the entire time. None of his level up screens looked all that interesting. It wasn't until chapter 11 that I realized he was somehow kind of good? He was just fast enough to double every enemy on the map except the boss and just strong enough to 2hko all of them and he was just durable enough to take a few hits (even from axes) and keep trucking. Except for Ferris*, all of my other units had problems in at least one of those areas. He ended up hitting right on his averages too, so good job I guess? I think I'm too used to lopsided characters because having someone that... efficient? felt kind of odd. *Ferris didn't have a problem doubling anyone because for one glorious moment he had 37 SPD and 33 Res. Sadly, both stats had dropped to 20 by the next turn.
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Mar 18, 2015 03:57
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Nihilarian posted:I beat Chapter 11! Unfortunately I didn't get any legitimitely amazing units this time - Angus ended up lacking in a lot of places despite his high strength - but Victoria and Willow were hella fast and managed to put in a good show because of it. Fun fact, there's a running joke with the team that Rowan is a disappointment. This is because for a while he was flat out poo poo. Even when he got buffs he never seemed to hit his growths. So then we overcompensated, and he was brokenly good. Pretty sure he's in a fine place now, considering he'll get crit on promotion  .
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Mar 18, 2015 04:14
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Nihilarian posted:*Ferris didn't have a problem doubling anyone because for one glorious moment he had 37 SPD and 33 Res. Sadly, both stats had dropped to 20 by the next turn. Alright you can't say this and not tell me what happened.
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Mar 18, 2015 04:43
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FPzero posted:Alright you can't say this and not tell me what happened. Nihilarian fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Mar 18, 2015 |
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Mar 18, 2015 05:09
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Yeah, I just checked and had a similar thing. Ferris had 37 Speed and Rowan had 32 Defense.
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Mar 18, 2015 09:17
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I can only assume it has something to do with being sent back to a previous chapter but we'll investigate. Thanks.
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Mar 18, 2015 13:45
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sounds like the same bug that afflicted our good friend Zack
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Mar 18, 2015 15:22
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Endorph posted:sounds like the same bug that afflicted our good friend Zack I'm surprised that lovely mod even managed to run at all given what was happening in every chapter  if anyone doesn't know about it, it's a terrible mod of FE7 Lyn mode called Different Dimensions: Ostian Princess made by one person, if you want to see it it's in the lp archive.
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Mar 18, 2015 15:48
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actually it's called ostian princess: different dimensions i think
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Mar 18, 2015 16:32
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Nah, it was Different Dimensions: Ostian Princess. I've taken to remembering it by its acronym, FEDDOP. Please go read that LP if you haven't yet.
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Mar 18, 2015 17:06
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I like to think of FEDDOP as inspiring. Mostly in that when starting Awful Emblem, we knew we wouldn't reach that level of terribly amazing.
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Mar 18, 2015 17:24
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DIFFERENT DIMENSIONS: OSTIAN PRINCESS is a masterpiece of Outsider Art
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Mar 18, 2015 20:54
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I dunno i kinda got feddop with it
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Mar 18, 2015 21:02
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Wild Knight posted:I dunno i kinda got feddop with it Yep
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Mar 18, 2015 22:48
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Mar 18, 2015 23:27
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FPzero posted:I like to think of FEDDOP as inspiring. Mostly in that when starting Awful Emblem, we knew we wouldn't reach that level of terribly amazing. Now pick your killer axe...and kill!!
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Mar 19, 2015 01:59
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Was FEDDOP the hack that featured BersCorsairers or was that another one?
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Mar 19, 2015 02:14
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ChaosArgate posted:Was FEDDOP the hack that featured BersCorsairers or was that another one? Same one. It also had Two Enemoks which I would love an explanation how something that hosed up even happens.
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Mar 19, 2015 02:26
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theshim posted:It is a sad, sad thing to consider that no matter how interesting or well-written or amazing the AE characters are, none of them will match up to the greatness of Marf Santangelo. NOPE!!!
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Mar 21, 2015 08:24
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So, here's what we're actually doing for Archers in my hack, I think this helps them enough to be on the level, if a bit strong. 1. They have exclusive 2-3 range with all bows 2. they have exclusive access to the 2-5 Longbow series 3. Each Archer comes with a 1-1 Unbreakable Unsellable 'bow' named 'Knife' that is only 2 mt. 4. Each Archer has the skill 'Anticipation' which allows them to swap to the range they're being targeted at, in short, an archer attacked in melee will swap to their knife, at range, their bow. 5. Their are buyable 'Bows' that can break that are upgrades for the Knife. 6. Snipers gain the Critical skill that Halberdiers, Swordmasters and Berserkers get. There, that should be perfect for Archers. They are now viable units.
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Mar 21, 2015 10:04
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That sounds like a chore to fight against, to be honest. Are those buffs for player characters only?
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Mar 21, 2015 10:11
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Momomo posted:That sounds like a chore to fight against, to be honest. Are those buffs for player characters only? Not really, it's certainly made enemy archers less of a joke, but I've been fighting against... most of these changes in test runs and it's not that diffuclt... Except for the castle maps, Murder Holes are loving brutal with the Archers. Especially with a Sniper in there. Anticipation might be. And I don't intend to use it on bosses or anything, But Archers are going to be dangerous.
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Mar 21, 2015 10:13
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I think that is probably going way overboard, a unit with 1-5 range and 15% inherent crit that automatically adjusts to threats on the fly with no player input might actually bring them from worst units in the game to far and away the best. Maybe I'm wrong though, and I do find the changes really interesting. edit: only Snipers get the crit buff, right?
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Mar 21, 2015 10:15
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Manatee Cannon posted:I think that is probably going way overboard, a unit with 1-5 range and 15% inherent crit that automatically adjusts to threats on the fly with no player input might actually bring them from worst units in the game to far and away the best. Maybe I'm wrong though, and I do find the changes really interesting. Yes only snipers. Exactly like Swordmasters and Berserkers and Halberdiers.
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Mar 21, 2015 10:18
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I just wanted to be certain I wasn't just reading into the implication.
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Mar 21, 2015 10:28
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Other than the 2-5 longbows this is exactly what I was hoping for so uh thanks I guess. That range does seem a little nuts but I'd have to see how it functions in practice before making a statement before or after it. Knives being complete garbage is the key; archers aren't supposed to hold chokepoints and put up a valiant stand as a defender, they're supposed to get one solid attack on player phase and then not be completely worthless on enemy phase. As long as they aren't taking on whole squads of soldiers themselves the way that melee-focused units are, I think it should be fine.
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Mar 21, 2015 15:04
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Well Dorothy and Wolt will still be poo poo without significant base increases but Igrene will be pretty good. Really it's just going to make enemy archers super annoying, especially if they have longbows.
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Mar 21, 2015 15:06
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WrightOfWay posted:Well Dorothy and Wolt will still be poo poo without significant base increases but Igrene will be pretty good. Really it's just going to make enemy archers super annoying, especially if they have longbows. Well Dorothy will be a Soldier so I don't think she has anything to worry about, neither does Wolt given the stuff I've done for him (Full 10 stat points below every other starting party member is such bullshit)
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Mar 21, 2015 15:27
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Onmi posted:So, here's what we're actually doing for Archers in my hack, I think this helps them enough to be on the level, if a bit strong.
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Mar 21, 2015 15:42
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Nihilarian posted:Seems overboard, honestly. I'd drop Knife and Anticipation, and give Short Bows a 1-2 range (with upgrades at certain levels), directly comparable to the handaxe/javelin families. That doesn't help archers though, it helps nomads. These boosts are specifically to give the Archer something over the Nomad. Because the nomad has movement, and on promotion Swords, an actual real weapon. So they're going to be 8 movement archers. As well, the Warrior is going to be 6 move archers. With a LOT more strength behind their blows. The Archer, in comparison, has.... 1 extra shot range, considering that Wolt is your only archer until Chapter 11 (where you get Klein) Lets compare Wolt and Sue, Wolt has 5 movement and +2 Range so his effective range is 7-8. 5 movement 2-3 range.. Sue has 7 movement and a 2-2 bow, for an effective range of 9. Sue will always be able to strike further and she has Canto so she can move after shooting. Wolt is a battery. The Mt of an Iron Bow is 6, the Mt of the Knife is 2. Meaning that's a 4 damage deficit. Or using base Wolt from my hack. 8 Str + 6 Mt is 14 Damage from an Iron Bow, 8+2 is 10 damage from a Knife with no WTA or WTD. The average defense of units from the screenshots I have last is about 5-7 on chapter 2. So Wolt will only do 3 damage on the counter, and will do 7 on the attack. The short of it is, I'm not afraid of Wolt killing anything or breaking the game over his knee because suddenly he can counter, in fact, I took the Javelin Idea and I refersed it, rather than a weapon that is an upgrade in range from 1 to 1-2, it's a weapon that downgrades in range from 2-3 to 1. And in comparison to the Javelin which has a Mt of 6 (Read: the same as the Iron Bow with none of the counter issues) It's really not a big problem. If the Knife was like an Iron Bow, with decent damage, sure, but it's like when a Priest attacks back with the staff in Radiant Dawn, yeah it happens but it's not dangerous.
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Mar 21, 2015 15:58
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other units have skills in your hack right? i don't think they'll end up overpowered, but right now they seem mechanically bloated, like fe is mostly straightforward and then archers in your hack are the intersection of a lot of different and fringe mechanics.
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Mar 21, 2015 16:03
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You could make shortbows 1-2 range and Archer specific, which would be in a similar vein to what you did with longbows. I do kind of think that the ability to switch from your 1 range weapon to the regular bows is a bigger deal than you imply.
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Mar 21, 2015 16:10
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Manatee Cannon posted:You could make shortbows 1-2 range and Archer specific, which would be in a similar vein to what you did with longbows. I do kind of think that the ability to switch from your 1 range weapon to the regular bows is a bigger deal than you imply. I don't think it's quite as big a deal when your 1-range weapon is terrible, though. This isn't a situation where archers are going to become unstoppable counterkillers; at most they're likely to be softening up a charging enemy for someone else to mop up. Of course we could also wait until we've gotten a chance to test the mechanics ourselves before making any judgments.
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Mar 21, 2015 16:20
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But Snipers get 15% inherent crit and he said you can get better, breakable versions of the 1 range weapon. Even iron bows are good enough on a regular hit in the late game so if you get anything remotely decent you will become untouchable and nothing will be able to challenge you at any range because you can hit (and subsequently crit) at any of them.
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Mar 21, 2015 16:23
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Manatee Cannon posted:You could make shortbows 1-2 range and Archer specific, which would be in a similar vein to what you did with longbows. I do kind of think that the ability to switch from your 1 range weapon to the regular bows is a bigger deal than you imply. It really isn't, I've run the numbers. It's no more effective than Priests countering with their staffs when you attack them in Radiant Dawn. If a little bit more because there's actual strength behind the strikes. Actually the logical basis of this is more the Laguz when not transformed. There's never a point where "Attack with the Knife" is a good idea unless you're trying to deliberatly weaken someone (and 'use a weaker bow' is probably the better idea.) so consistently using archers as they were, as bowmen, and the fact is, if their defense isn't enough to sustain frontline battles, they'll still fulfil the same position in the formations as they did before. All the change has done, has made it so when you have to pull the archer back to shore up defenses, he can now attack with his 2 mt knife if a cavalier charges up Axe him a question. CeallaSo posted:I don't think it's quite as big a deal when your 1-range weapon is terrible, though. This isn't a situation where archers are going to become unstoppable counterkillers; at most they're likely to be softening up a charging enemy for someone else to mop up. Not even that really, they'll do counter damage maybe? if they're particularly strength blessed. But their focus is and always will be bows. In comparison to mages, who no one complains about having access to 3-10 range weaponry forever. Especially when they target resistence, which is on the whole less likely to exist than strength. Besides, Every Sword/Axe and Lance user has multiple tiers of ranged weapon getting progressively stronger, but an archer gets a 2 mt Knife to counter with? oh no? Yeah the Tomahawk wielding Berserker is perfectly fine, (We're not mentioning the 'Superior to an Iron Bow' Hand Axe for the sake of hyperbole) but goodness forbid the archer gets a counter attack. Manatee Cannon posted:But Snipers get 15% inherent crit and he said you can get better, breakable versions of the 1 range weapon. Even iron bows are good enough on a regular hit in the late game so if you get anything remotely decent you will become untouchable and nothing will be able to challenge you at any range because you can hit (and subsequently crit) at any of them. You have clearly not seen a game as statted by me. Ha. And yeah you might get like 5 use 6 Mt Knives. Which can only be purchased in a Secret Store. I'm sure the games just broken all over your knee. I have run the numbers Manatee. You shouldn't be able to solo with anyone. Let alone archers.... of which you only have 3. EDIT: Also enemies actually have a luck stat in FE6, so crits aren't nearly as prevelent as say... FE7 without good support abuse and the like. Onmi fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Mar 21, 2015 |
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Mar 21, 2015 16:26
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Obviously I haven't seen how this stuff works in practice, I'm just bringing up any possible problems that I see. I feel that kind of thing is important to do.
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Mar 21, 2015 16:45
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Onmi posted:That doesn't help archers though, it helps nomads. These boosts are specifically to give the Archer something over the Nomad. Because the nomad has movement, and on promotion Swords, an actual real weapon. So they're going to be 8 movement archers. As well, the Warrior is going to be 6 move archers. With a LOT more strength behind their blows. The Archer, in comparison, has.... 1 extra shot range, considering that Wolt is your only archer until Chapter 11 (where you get Klein)
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Mar 21, 2015 16:59
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If it takes every single buff in the game to make Archers useful, I'd say go for it. It's much easier to go all in on a good idea and tone it down later than it is to keep iterating on something that might be a failure. I approve of our new Super Archers.
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Mar 21, 2015 17:44
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| # ? Jun 9, 2024 15:57 |
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Are archers able to hang around outside a stationary boss's range and shoot them to death from a safe distance?
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Mar 21, 2015 19:34
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