Canadian Politics: Orange is the new government

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BattleMaster: Aug 14, 2000

Pinterest Mom posted:

If politicians aren't paid anything, only rich oligarchs who can afford to not have a job would get into politics how is that not immediately obvious.

My dad has made a case for politicians being paid more just so that higher-quality people with applicable experience would want the job rather than staying in their industry for the higher wages there. As it is, most people who get into politics are already wealthy and put up with the low wages because they have an agenda.

I don't know if he's right but it does seem to make a certain amount of sense.

# ? Mar 19, 2015 20:20

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# ? Jun 3, 2024 13:40

RBC: Nov 23, 2007; IM STILL SPENDING MONEY FROM 1888

Mr. Wynand posted:

I would actually love to see a system where politicians are assigned a generous (but not extravagant) life-long pension upon election, and are subsequently barred from accepting any further gifts or preferential treatment of any kind for any reason whatsoever. That alone wouldn't make the problem go away, but it would make enforcement quite a bit easier since it doesn't matter if "i just so happen to be very qualified for this high-paying lobbying job after my retirement!" - any paying job becomes illegal to hold.

Not sure how this would extend to their family. Like, even if your kids can't give you anything most people would probably still accept "bribes" that ensure their kids will be cared of for generations to come.

There is one very reliable solution to the corruption problem of course: the complete elimination of the capitalist class.

So you want the senate to run the country?

# ? Mar 19, 2015 20:20

Svaha: Oct 4, 2005

David Corbett posted:

I get what you're saying here: there is an immense amount of cultural baggage around being handcuffed that makes it a really terrible experience. Add to all that the perceptions around the legal system, concerns about what people will think, about your job, about whether you're going to jail - well, it's never happened to me, but I expect it would be awful.

That said, I'm not sure a nine-year-old autistic kid would necessarily have the same reaction to handcuffs because he simply wouldn't have had the time to build up those notions, or the brain capacity to really understand them. That'd be true of any nine-year-old; the boy in this case even more so, because temper tantrums aren't good for your rationality.

I don't know anywhere near enough about abnormal child psychology or special needs education or really any of the subjects I would need to know to give an educated opinion, but I am confident in saying that handcuffs for this kid couldn't possibly mean the same thing as it would for you or me.

What the heck are you on about. There is a cultural stigma to being handcuffed/perp-walked, but the fact is that absolutely no-one, no matter how psychologically impaired, likes being restrained (outside the S&M community, i guess).

Fear of being restrained is a primal thing, not something that is specific to any one culture or the result of social conditioning.

It's really the opposite of what you think. Restraining people not in full command of their faculties can be way more dangerous because they don't necessarily understand the limits of the restraint or have the social conditioning to submit passively to authority. I would expect an autistic kid to react in a way that that was more dangerous to himself and others.

That said, yeah it's a 9 year old so there is not a lot of danger to others there, but the point still stands.

# ? Mar 19, 2015 20:20

Dreylad: Jun 19, 2001

BattleMaster posted:

My dad has made a case for politicians being paid more just so that higher-quality people with applicable experience would want the job rather than staying in their industry for the higher wages there. As it is, most people who get into politics are already wealthy and put up with the low wages because they have an agenda.

I don't know if he's right but it does seem to make a certain amount of sense.

I think the key to having as many people able to run for office as possible is to make campaigning easier for those who aren't wealthy. We already have relatively strong campaign finance laws, but maybe there's more that can be done on that front, I don't know.

# ? Mar 19, 2015 20:26

Number Two Stunna: Nov 8, 2009; FUCK

We should make it so that politicians aren't allowed to own any property, like in The Republic.

# ? Mar 19, 2015 20:27

Franks Happy Place: Mar 15, 2011; It is by weed alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the dank of Sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by weed alone I set my mind in motion.

Number Two Stunna posted:

We should make it so that politicians aren't allowed to own any property, like in The Republic.

Liquidate all of their assets on the day they take office, and put them in a trust fund. That fund increases or decreases by a percentage equivalent to a basket of statistics (employment rate, median income, GDP growth, etc.), so that if you are good at your job you will make money, and if you are bad at it you will lose as much as Joe and Jane Blow.

# ? Mar 19, 2015 20:33

Jordan7hm: Feb 17, 2011; Lipstick Apathy

Politicians at the federal and provincial levels already make a lot. That's not the issue preventing people with more relevant life experience from participating. The issue is that campaigning and holding office is a career change and necessitates time away from your main career. It's something you do when you're already at the end of your career (or, like Trudeau, Harper, etc) you do it instead of a real career.

# ? Mar 19, 2015 20:33

Svaha: Oct 4, 2005

Number Two Stunna posted:

We should make it so that politicians aren't allowed to own any property, like in The Republic.

Also force them to wear orange jumpsuits, shave their heads, live in spartan cells and eat tasteless gruel for every meal.

...come to think of it, let's just merge democracy with the prison system to save time. :v:

# ? Mar 19, 2015 20:35

BattleMaster: Aug 14, 2000

Reinstate the death penalty but only for people who want to become politicians.

# ? Mar 19, 2015 20:36

Svaha: Oct 4, 2005

Have incorruptible spaceship A.I.s run our democracy for us so we can have more time for unrestrained hedonistic orgies. (I miss you, Iain M Banks

)

# ? Mar 19, 2015 20:45

JohnnyCanuck: May 28, 2004; Strong And/Or Free

Scott Andrews says he won't fight to rejoin Liberal caucus in wake of harassment probe

quote:

Scott Andrews, the eastern Newfoundland MP who was ejected from the federal Liberal caucus amid allegations of sexual misconduct, says he doesn't "have the political ruthlessness and nastiness to fight" to return to the party fold.

Andrews, who was elected in 2008 and represents the riding of Avalon, addressed the independent investigation into his conduct, as well as his political future, at a news conference on Thursday.

"The past five months have been very difficult for my family," Andrews said.

Refuses to deny wrongdoing

He did not deny any wrongdoing, and said it would be up to his friends and family to determine if he was at fault.

However, Andrews said he has learned that he needs to respect personal boundaries.

"I have learned a lot about myself through the past few months, and particularly how my jovial Newfoundland friendliness can be received," Andrews told reporters.

"I have learned a great deal on the importance of personal space, diversity and the importance of the feelings of others."

Andrews said he was content with the independent report, the contents of which have not been released publicly.

Andrews and fellow MP Massimo Pacetti, who were initially suspended from the Liberal caucus last fall, have now been permanently ousted after Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau received the results of an independent investigation he commissioned from Toronto lawyer Cynthia Petersen.

Petersen, a human rights specialist who has investigated sexual harassment complaints in the private sector, turned in her report on Pacetti and Andrews last week.

Both men were the subject of harassment allegations made by two New Democratic MPs.

Andrews 'laying down' his partisanship

One MP alleged that Pacetti had sex with her without her explicit consent.

It's also alleged that Andrews harassed another female MP.

When asked if he feared that by not addressing the allegations he was admitting wrongdoing, Andrews would only say he accepted the findings of the investigation, and wanted the matter to be over.

Andrews commented that politics in Ottawa is "fiercely partisan," and that he was "laying down his partisanship."

Andrews said he would have no objections to the executive summary of the report being released publicly, but said it�s "Mr. Trudeau's report."

When asked if he felt he was treated fairly, Andrews said the process was "frustrating and troublesome," but said he's not mean-spirited and is not interested in a witch hunt.

As for his own political future, Andrews said he will continue to serve as an independent MP, and will decide in the coming weeks and months whether he will seek re-election.

"My wife and family will decide together," he said.

Putting family first

Andrews said he enjoyed his time in the Liberal caucus, but acknowledged it would be "difficult to take an equal place ... after all that has happened."

He said several media leaks relating to the investigation, regardless of the source, "makes re-establishing a bond of trust even more difficult."

Andrews said the matter has caused "great stress" for him, his wife and their two young sons.

"This is a personal decision, putting me and my family first," he said.

Trudeau says matter now closed

Trudeau issued a statement Thursday afternoon thanking Petersen for her "exemplary work" and noting that he felt the matter was now closed.

He also said he accepts the decisions of Andrews and Pacetti to sit as Independent MPs and to not seek the Liberal nominations in their respective ridings.

Sources told CBC News on Wednesday that the two MPs were ousted from the caucus for good.

Trudeau also said the party will independently initiate training for all its staff and caucus members aimed at improving workplace safety and protecting those who work on Parliament Hill from harassment

�We need to protect and encourage anyone who comes forward with allegations of this nature," the statement read.

This is the creepiest:

"I have learned a lot about myself through the past few months, and particularly how my jovial Newfoundland friendliness can be received."

# ? Mar 19, 2015 20:50

Helsing: Aug 23, 2003; DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU JOE BIDEN

Our political system is not corrupt because our politicians somehow lack moral fibre or are subject to corrupting influences. Sure, individual greed and corruption is one lever of influence for special interests but even if you somehow prevented politicians from deriving personal benefits from their position you'd still be left with a situation where most of our economy is held hostage by private entities.

People get so fixated on our politicians and political parties but what goes on in the economy is a lot more important. Unions, corporations, financiers, bond rating agencies, international financiers etc., those are the real powers. You aren't going to substantially improve our social or economic conditions for any extended period of time without triggering an economic conflict that is far more consequential than the side issues that get debated in Parliament most of the time.

Parliamentary politics are a good way to mobilize people and they're a good way to win specific concessions that might make people's lives easier but politicians don't actually rule or control our society in any meaningful sense, that's the prerogative of businessmen (acting collectively, of course, since we live in an oligarchy rather than a monarchy or dictatorship). Politics is just the shadow cast by our economic arrangements, and by far my biggest disappointment with the currently existing NDP / left in general is a utopian refusal to actually confront this reality.

# ? Mar 19, 2015 21:00

Gus Hobbleton: Dec 30, 2003; Can't post for 3 years!

I heard of a system once where politicians are elected by lottery, like jury duty or something. You get a letter in the mail saying you're now senator/member of parliament/whatever and serve for a few years, then you're done forever. Dunno if it was real or has ever been tried anywhere and it's probably extremely impractical in reality.

# ? Mar 19, 2015 21:14

Baudin: Dec 31, 2009

Gus Hobbleton posted:

I heard of a system once where politicians are elected by lottery, like jury duty or something. You get a letter in the mail saying you're now senator/member of parliament/whatever and serve for a few years, then you're done forever. Dunno if it was real or has ever been tried anywhere and it's probably extremely impractical in reality.

That sounds horrible - particularly when I recall my various judgemental or neurotic relatives (or god help us all, me) and imagine them anywhere near power. On the other hand there would be some quite good people in the running suddenly, which could be fun.

# ? Mar 19, 2015 21:17

RBC: Nov 23, 2007; IM STILL SPENDING MONEY FROM 1888

Gus Hobbleton posted:

I heard of a system once where politicians are elected by lottery, like jury duty or something. You get a letter in the mail saying you're now senator/member of parliament/whatever and serve for a few years, then you're done forever. Dunno if it was real or has ever been tried anywhere and it's probably extremely impractical in reality.

ancient athens is where that system comes and honestly its far preferable to what we have

# ? Mar 19, 2015 21:18

Pinterest Mom: Jun 9, 2009

Incumbency and having politicians remain in parliament for several years/terms and accumulate experience is important! A fresh crop of 300 MPs every four years would just mean that the real decisions would just be taken by the permanent bureaucracy who would be able to lead an unsure, inexperienced, and probably incompetent Parliament by the nose.

# ? Mar 19, 2015 21:19

Suspicious: Apr 30, 2005; You know he's the villain, because he's got shifty eyes.

RBC posted:

ancient athens is where that system comes and honestly its far preferable to what we have

Wasn't it citizens only, and it was only the rich and well-bred that were citizens?

# ? Mar 19, 2015 21:20

sat on my keys!: Oct 2, 2014

Suspicious posted:

Wasn't it citizens only, and it was only the rich and well-bred that were citizens?

Yes, you had to be a free male citizen which was a small minority of Athenians.

# ? Mar 19, 2015 21:21

ZShakespeare: Jul 20, 2003; The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose!

Government by lottery would certainly have the effect that the makeup of parliament would mirror the make up of the population (i.e. poor people)

# ? Mar 19, 2015 21:21

Risky Bisquick: Jan 18, 2008; PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.; Buglord

ZShakespeare posted:

Government by lottery would certainly have the effect that the makeup of parliament would mirror the make up of the population (i.e. poor people)

Poverty issues might be properly represented and acted upon.

# ? Mar 19, 2015 21:24

ZShakespeare: Jul 20, 2003; The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose!

jm20 posted:

Poverty issues might be properly represented and acted upon.

*A white gloved hand extends from off stage and drops a burlap sack with a green dollar sign on it in front of you*

LOW TAXES*

*for the rich

# ? Mar 19, 2015 21:25

Dallan Invictus: Oct 11, 2007; The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes, look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

I, too, am eager for the country to be run like a jury trial (or, more likely, by the civil service).

# ? Mar 19, 2015 21:26

EvilJoven: Mar 18, 2005; NOBODY,IN THE HISTORY OF EVER, HAS ASKED OR CARED WHAT CANADA THINKS. YOU ARE NOT A COUNTRY. YOUR MONEY HAS THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND ON IT. IF YOU DIG AROUND IN YOUR BACKYARD, NATIVE SKELETONS WOULD EXPLODE OUT OF YOUR LAWN LIKE THE END OF POLTERGEIST. CANADA IS SO POLITE, EH?; Fun Shoe

I've advocated for police force being mostly composed of draftees with strict service limits with the only full time positions being administrative or supervisory.

First year us like the reserves with training time on weekends, followed by a year or two on tour.

Kinda hard for systemic police abuse when cops know that eventually they won't have a badge to hide behind and their victims will.

# ? Mar 19, 2015 21:31

vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

Pinterest Mom posted:

Incumbency and having politicians remain in parliament for several years/terms and accumulate experience is important! A fresh crop of 300 MPs every four years would just mean that the real decisions would just be taken by the permanent bureaucracy who would be able to lead an unsure, inexperienced, and probably incompetent Parliament by the nose.

There are ways around this.

Have a Parliament of 400 people, chosen randomly by lot from the entire voting-age population, each for a four-year term.

However, their four-year terms are staggered so 100 of them are replaced every year. Out of each 100, 25 are chosen randomly to sit for another 4-year term, and the 75 others are replaced by 75 new randomly-chosen citizens. Therefore, at any given moment, at least one quarter of your Parliament would be experienced incumbents, and roughly 25 of the entire body would have been in office for close to a decade (those people who were chosen randomly to stay more than once). You would never have to be showing more than 75 new MPs the ropes at any given time, and the experienced incumbents could make valuable party leaders and elder statespeople.

(Note: do not actually do this)

# ? Mar 19, 2015 21:38

Morroque: Mar 6, 2013

Helsing posted:

People get so fixated on our politicians and political parties but what goes on in the economy is a lot more important. Unions, corporations, financiers, bond rating agencies, international financiers etc., those are the real powers. You aren't going to substantially improve our social or economic conditions for any extended period of time without triggering an economic conflict that is far more consequential than the side issues that get debated in Parliament most of the time.

It's a wonder why we don't really consider private sector internal politics as "news," really. I haven't seen much, but what little I have suggests just as much crazy stuff in the private sector of my local part of Ontario alone. And I can only imagine there's more where that comes from. Not all of it is necessarily public interest, but if enough jobs are involved it very could be.

It's probably one big web of NDA's keeping all those particular valves from bursting.

# ? Mar 19, 2015 21:46

Wistful of Dollars: Aug 25, 2009

Well, if you want to restore Athenian-style democracy, we're going to need some slaves. :colbert:

# ? Mar 19, 2015 21:46

Franks Happy Place: Mar 15, 2011; It is by weed alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the dank of Sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by weed alone I set my mind in motion.

El Scotch posted:

Well, if you want to restore Athenian-style democracy, we're going to need some ~~slaves~~ TFWs.

# ? Mar 19, 2015 21:51

Kraftwerk: Aug 13, 2011; i do not have 10,000 bircoins, please stop asking

ZShakespeare posted:

Uber is a technological solution to a political problem. Fix the politics.

Would $12/hr even cover gas? I did a stint as pizza delivery, and $8 certainly didn't and that was when gas as $1-1.10/L

$12/hr is what you average if you're dumb and don't know how to hustle your routes properly. If you're smart you hang out in high density areas where people will most likely require cabs. Keep yourself informed on current events like Solaris, sporting events, concerts etc and be in the area for when they start or end.

When I drove for Uber I averaged about $26/hr working approximately 13 hours each day on weekends. You get a lot of big fares if you camp out downtown starting at around 11pm. During cold days I can score a huge volume of people from the condos around the Spadina, Bremner, Ft. York Blvd and Lakeshore area. Occasionally I hit up the condos and residential areas around Lakeshore and Parklawn Rd in Etobicoke to catch downtown club goers for 30 bucks a pop. Liberty Village also pays but most of the people living there tend to stay there so you never really go much further than Queen West or King West.

In addition if you're young, sociable and somewhat decent looking there are sometimes some nice little perks to being an Uber driver, that's all I'm going to say.

Kraftwerk has issued a correction as of 22:06 on Mar 19, 2015

# ? Mar 19, 2015 22:04

Freeze: Jan 2, 2006; I've never seen it written so neatly

EvilJoven posted:

I've advocated for police force being mostly composed of draftees with strict service limits with the only full time positions being administrative or supervisory.

First year us like the reserves with training time on weekends, followed by a year or two on tour.

Kinda hard for systemic police abuse when cops know that eventually they won't have a badge to hide behind and their victims will.

This is one of the stupidest things I've read in this thread, and that is saying something.

1) You're going to have a bunch of cops who have no interest in the work, or are not at all suited for the work. I'm sure that's going to lead to highly effective police work.
2) On a personal level, you're drafting a bunch of people into a highly stressful job which has the potential to wreak havok on their personal lives and/or mental health.
3) Furthering that, are you planning on having 18 year olds drafted into this (stupid for obvious reasons)? Or randomly selecting throughout a larger age range, forcing people to leave their careers (also stupid for obvious reasons)?
4) No experienced personnel who can effectively do more advanced jobs in the force (eg. detectives).
5) Who is going to fulfill these "supervisory" positions? A suitable candidate would have years of experience as a police officer.
6) "Kinda hard for systemic police abuse when cops know that eventually they won't have a badge to hide behind and their victims will." What? The numbers don't make sense on this unless your proposed police forces are a hell of a lot larger than they are now.

# ? Mar 19, 2015 22:15

BattleMaster: Aug 14, 2000

There are tons of conscript armies in history with no discipline or pride for their job, and I don't think a drafted police force would be any different.

# ? Mar 19, 2015 22:17

Baudin: Dec 31, 2009

BattleMaster posted:

There are tons of conscript armies in history with no discipline or pride for their job, and I don't think a drafted police force would be any different.

Run at the first chance they get and die in droves if they get cornered in a fight, sounds about right.

# ? Mar 19, 2015 22:23

Freeze: Jan 2, 2006; I've never seen it written so neatly

BattleMaster posted:

There are tons of conscript armies in history with no discipline or pride for their job, and I don't think a drafted police force would be any different.

Exactly. Except in this case it would be extra bad because there is apparently no senior leadership with any experience to guide the draftees. Also, a police officer requires far more independent thought than your standard infantry conscript who can essentially be handed a rifle and told "shoot those guys."

# ? Mar 19, 2015 22:27

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Maybe after we get done replacing police officers and politicians with untrained conscripts, we can make airlines do the same thing with pilots and have some real fun! And you know what would keep healthcare costs down? You got it: rotating, conscripted doctors and nurses! I, for one, look forward to this new world of no one being qualified to do anything, and its attendant life expectancy of "6 months after whenever the policy takes effect."

Seriously, these discussions have been pants-on-head retarded even by the standards of the CanPol thread.

# ? Mar 19, 2015 22:31

Baudin: Dec 31, 2009

PT6A posted:

Seriously, these discussions have been pants-on-head retarded even by the standards of the CanPol thread.

Pretty sure that every week someone posts a comment along these lines. Maybe twice weekly?

e: symptom of the slow pace of Canadian Politics clearly :v:

# ? Mar 19, 2015 22:35

Heavy neutrino: Sep 16, 2007; You made a fine post for yourself. ...For a casualry, I suppose.

Helsing posted:

People get so fixated on our politicians and political parties but what goes on in the economy is a lot more important. Unions, corporations, financiers, bond rating agencies, international financiers etc., those are the real powers. You aren't going to substantially improve our social or economic conditions for any extended period of time without triggering an economic conflict that is far more consequential than the side issues that get debated in Parliament most of the time.

Yeah; it's completely pointless to try and play whack-a-mole with the infinite number of ways that class-based power relationships can insinuate themselves into the state political system. The balance of power, right now, is solidly on the side of concentrated wealth, and we have to start by finding ways to address that.

# ? Mar 19, 2015 22:41

EvilJoven: Mar 18, 2005; NOBODY,IN THE HISTORY OF EVER, HAS ASKED OR CARED WHAT CANADA THINKS. YOU ARE NOT A COUNTRY. YOUR MONEY HAS THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND ON IT. IF YOU DIG AROUND IN YOUR BACKYARD, NATIVE SKELETONS WOULD EXPLODE OUT OF YOUR LAWN LIKE THE END OF POLTERGEIST. CANADA IS SO POLITE, EH?; Fun Shoe

I've never met a single person in North America and who was a cop or wanted to be a cop who should be a cop except for maybe a few people who are now in their 70s and really were concerned about the safety of their community and as loving stupid as it sounds I really do think that at least replacing beat cops with conscripts or reservists or something would be preferable to the meatheads we have now.

Ya the idea needs a lot of loving work. need to be way better thought out and structured than what I've outlined in two sentences on an Internet forum and require a lot more than 'everythings the same as it is now except almost every cop is someone pulled from the street, given one semester of police academy training and then a gun' because ya that would be loving retarded.

Doesn't change the fact that I still believe that something's gotta change when it comes to law enforcement and I really do think that placing more obligation on the community at large for their policing instead of some rear end in a top hat with a badge who probably doesn't give a poo poo about the people he's supposed to protect and serve would lead to a safer and more engaged community and less abuse from law enforcement.

# ? Mar 19, 2015 22:47

bunnyofdoom: Mar 29, 2008; THE HATE CRIME DEFENDER HAS LOGGED ON

in less EvilJoven keeps making me feel smart in the thread And more paid pundits let's have Alberta seperate!

# ? Mar 19, 2015 22:50

Wistful of Dollars: Aug 25, 2009

bunnyofdoom posted:

in less EvilJoven keeps making me feel smart in the thread And more paid pundits let's have Alberta seperate!

Hm, guess it would make cars cheaper. :v:

# ? Mar 19, 2015 22:52

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

EvilJoven posted:

I've never met a single person in North America and who was a cop or wanted to be a cop who should be a cop except for maybe a few people who are now in their 70s and really were concerned about the safety of their community and as loving stupid as it sounds I really do think that at least replacing beat cops with conscripts or reservists or something would be preferable to the meatheads we have now.

Ya the idea needs a lot of loving work. need to be way better thought out and structured than what I've outlined in two sentences on an Internet forum and require a lot more than 'everythings the same as it is now except almost every cop is someone pulled from the street, given one semester of police academy training and then a gun' because ya that would be loving retarded.

Doesn't change the fact that I still believe that something's gotta change when it comes to law enforcement and I really do think that placing more obligation on the community at large for their policing instead of some rear end in a top hat with a badge who probably doesn't give a poo poo about the people he's supposed to protect and serve would lead to a safer and more engaged community and less abuse from law enforcement.

You must live in a very frightening, paranoid world if you honestly believe the majority or a significant plurality of cops are out to abuse their power, or don't care about the safety of their community. Granted, I only know one person who became a cop, but the only reason he wanted to do it was for the good of the community.

# ? Mar 19, 2015 22:54

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# ? Jun 3, 2024 13:40

vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

bunnyofdoom posted:

in less EvilJoven keeps making me feel smart in the thread And more paid pundits let's have Alberta seperate!

quote:

Canada�s demographic situation is similar to the rest of the developed world � a large population moving toward retirement and hardly any young people in the replacement generation coming up.

However, Alberta does not fit that mould. It is the youngest province, and is becoming younger, better paid and more highly skilled as the rest of Canada becomes older and less skilled, and a ward of the state financially.

The other piece is, of course, energy. British Columbia has been hostile to Alberta�s efforts to diversity oil exports and the Atlantic is more than 2,000 miles away.

But really, it comes down to demographics. Right now, every man, woman and child in Alberta pay $6,000 more into the national budget than they get back. Alberta is the only province that is a net contributor to that budget � by 2020, the number will exceed $20,000 per person, $40,000 per taxpayer. That will be the greatest wealth transfer in per capita terms in the Western world. The only other place we see things like that is in Saudi Arabia, where the oil-producing regions subsidize the rest of the country.

e: loving lmao

# ? Mar 19, 2015 22:54

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