|
holy loving poo poo it is a kids show and has zero loving literary merit that doesn't make it bad.
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2015 20:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 19:08 |
|
|
i have become one of them 
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2015 20:42
|
|
|
Clawshrimpy posted:But if the show in question lacks development and depth, doesn't it prove right everyone who says GGG is nothing but the kid's show everyone claims it is? That's it's effectively belongs in the same bin as Transformers and Digimon and has no literary merit compared to show where the main characters act horrible? Being a kids' show and not having literary merit are not equivalent. There are shows for children which have great literary merit, and there are shows for adults which do not have any. With that said, however, you do need to accept that GGG is a kids' show. It was written with children in mind and marketed towards children, but this doesn't say anything about its quality. Lastly, a thing which I feel you need to realize is that you can like something while simultaneously being critical of it. It doesn't have to be either "This is the best" or "This is the worst". A show can havethings you dislike while you still enjoy it overall, or vice-versa.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2015 20:48
|
|
|
How much merit a work does or doesn't have is up to both the individual and society and large, depending on how they use them. I personally would use GGG as an example of how to play a number of seemingly cliché tropes straight whilst still having a fun and fulfilling story - most of the world, or at least the bits that determine what culture at large will study years from now, has not heard of it. They probably aren't really aware that the anime mecha sub-genre is a 'thing'. Beyond which, there's nothing wrong in something being a kids show. That itself is a tautology that infers 'kids show' as cheap entertainment that cannot impact or affect people personally (and your cited examples are really not the best examples to use), instead of just. y'know, shows where the primary demographic is children. You do not need to justify it as somehow 'more' than a kid show in order to un-ironically say you appreciate and enjoy it, or see value in the work either personal or literary.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2015 20:50
|
|
|
Clawshrimpy posted:doesn't it prove right everyone who says GGG is nothing but the kid's show everyone claims it is? Gaogaigar is a kid's show! That doesn't mean it's bad.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2015 20:50
|
|
|
Clawshrimpy posted:But if the show in question lacks development and depth, doesn't it prove right everyone who says GGG is nothing but the kid's show everyone claims it is? That's it's effectively belongs in the same bin as Transformers and Digimon and has no literary merit compared to show where the main characters act horrible? It has literary merit because it's entertaining, thought-out for the most part, and can follow its own internal logic (for the most part, nitpickers can find plot-holes in nearly anything). What more needs to be said about it? I admire Code Geass season 1, trainwreck that it ends up becoming, for the effort that its staff put into it in spite of Sunrise sabotaging the production at nearly every turn. I admire Imagawa's imaginative union of Yokoyama's works into one glorious OVA series when a lesser director would've just phoned it in (especially when how basic the original Giant Robo manga was). I admire the visual detail put into the Itano Circuses and the effort the man put into having animated physics emulate real life's. Hell, I admire even the old Transformers cartoons for all the zany ideas they thought up, and also that their effort let Transformers -which was just rebranding of minor transforming robot toy lines- eclipse Machine Robo in the eyes of consumers. My experience with Digimon as a whole is limited, but I rather liked what I saw of it and even if it's not for me, if effort was put into it I can't fault them for that.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2015 20:52
|
|
|
Astro Nut posted:Beyond which, there's nothing wrong in something being a kids show. That itself is a tautology that infers 'kids show' as cheap entertainment that cannot impact or affect people personally (and your cited examples are really not the best examples to use), instead of just. y'know, shows where the primary demographic is children. You do not need to justify it as somehow 'more' than a kid show in order to un-ironically say you appreciate and enjoy it, or see value in the work either personal or literary. Yes there is, it means that my ability to enjoy deep shows is lesser compared to the people who enjoy more "adult" things like Gundam or Gurren Lagann or Imagawa productions or what have you, especially when I try to argue the "kid's show" is more well done. But I do agree with you in the sense that kid's show shouldn't be bad, but my point is GGG isn't strictly a kid's show, because like something like Doctor Who, it has an extreme amount of depth present. Chuck of SFDebris said something similar to this at the start of this Doctor Who Review
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2015 20:59
|
|
|
Gurren Lagann is a kid's show, it even aired in a kid show timeslot, which is why those fansubs had the time in the upper left.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2015 21:00
|
|
|
And one final thing: Much like quality or enjoyment literary value is subjective. It is decided partially by larger society and partially by each of us, as individuals. If you consider something to have literary value it does, at least for you. Most people probably consider japanese cartoons about colorful robots inherently childish, while I can find literary value in many of them. Edit: spelling Droyer fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Mar 19, 2015 |
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2015 21:01
|
|
|
Clawshrimpy posted:Yes there is, it means that my ability to enjoy deep shows is lesser compared to the people who enjoy more "adult" things like Gundam or Gurren Lagann or Imagawa productions Gundam, Gurren Lagann and a good chunk of Imagawa's stuff are also kid's shows.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2015 21:03
|
|
|
Clawshrimpy posted:Yes there is, it means that my ability to enjoy deep shows is lesser compared to the people who enjoy more "adult" things like Gundam or Gurren Lagann or Imagawa productions or what have you, especially when I try to argue the "kid's show" is more well done. Most of what you described right there were kids' shows too, it's just like GGG they have their own strengths and limitations. And modern-day Doctor Who isn't really meant for kids anymore.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2015 21:07
|
|
|
Clawshrimpy posted:Yes there is, it means that my ability to enjoy deep shows is lesser compared to the people who enjoy more "adult" things like Gundam or Gurren Lagann or Imagawa productions or what have you, especially when I try to argue the "kid's show" is more well done. That argument only holds if you somehow must love only one or the other - which isn't the case. Unless your argument is that your preference of that over other works carries that implication for you personally, in which case, again, this seems to come back more to taste than really the notion of your ability to appreciate adult works. At most, you might be blocked because of common thematic elements that are not to your liking, but that is less to do with them being kids shows or not, and again, more down to thematic elements. If anything, being able to enjoy a kid's show on its merit, without being 'ironic' about it, can be more mature, because you are able to understand why the work holds as a work, and not simply disregard it because it somehow makes you less of an adult. Don't feel threatened, just acknowledge it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2015 21:07
|
|
|
Clawshrimpy posted:Yes there is, it means that my ability to enjoy deep shows is lesser compared to the people who enjoy more "adult" things like Gundam or Gurren Lagann or Imagawa productions or what have you, especially when I try to argue the "kid's show" is more well done. You liking GGG, whether it is a kids' show or not, proves only one thing about you: that you like GGG. It doesn't prove anything about whether or not you can enjoy other shows or other types of shows.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2015 21:08
|
|
|
Astro Nut posted:That argument only holds if you somehow must love only one or the other - which isn't the case. Unless your argument is that your preference of that over other works carries that implication for you personally, in which case, again, this seems to come back more to taste than really the notion of your ability to appreciate adult works. At most, you might be blocked because of common thematic elements that are not to your liking, but that is less to do with them being kids shows or not, and again, more down to thematic elements. "When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." C.S. Lewis Edit: Sorry about the double post
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2015 21:11
|
|
|
It's okay to enjoy both kid shows and adult shows but I think it's also good to consume media outside of sci-fi shows targeted at kids. Expanding horizons, is good.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2015 21:12
|
|
|
it's okay but NOT recommended!!
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2015 21:13
|
|
|
This is the most active this thread has been in years 
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2015 21:37
|
|
|
Depressing, isn't it?
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2015 21:38
|
|
|
I kind of like it. By arguing I make it more clear for myself what I do and do not like.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2015 21:50
|
|
|
Droyer posted:I kind of like it. By arguing I make it more clear for myself what I do and do not like. Yeah I agree for this reason. Plus it's either that or one or two posts every few months bemoaning the state of the genre so it's not like we're missing out on much!
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2015 22:03
|
|
|
Srice posted:Yeah I agree for this reason. One of my friends keeps telling me that he really likes your avatar so you have made some dude driving pickup trucks through sandstorms to anime soundtracks very happy
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2015 22:08
|
|
|
muike posted:One of my friends keeps telling me that he really likes your avatar so you have made some dude driving pickup trucks through sandstorms to anime soundtracks very happy I'm glad that the anonymous person who gave this av to me has been able to spread joy and happiness throughout the forums.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2015 22:11
|
|
|
Srice posted:I'm glad that the anonymous person who gave this av to me has been able to spread joy and happiness throughout the forums. It took me a second (or maybe third) glance to realize what was off about it. It's pretty awesome.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2015 22:22
|
|
|
Steam posted:
I meant Archtypes not sterotypes. Not sure why I went there. Your explanation Steam sums up what I was trying to get across. Clawshrimpy posted:But if the show in question lacks development and depth, doesn't it prove right everyone who says GGG is nothing but the kid's show everyone claims it is? That's it's effectively belongs in the same bin as Transformers and Digimon and has no literary merit compared to show where the main characters act horrible? It is a kids show. That's why Mamoru, a kid, is the main protagonist and why he has a really cool "Big Brother" to look up to, get support from, and to garner values and virtues from. In the same way Wataru has a father figure in Ryujinmaru in Machine Hero Wataru.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2015 23:01
|
|
|
Srice posted:Gurren Lagann is a kid's show, it even aired in a kid show timeslot, which is why those fansubs had the time in the upper left. I guess you could say that anime as a whole is intended for children, but when someone usually says "this is a children's show" as a way to point out a show has flawless characters and no depth, because having flawless characters and no depth is another way to say "bad" or "poorly written". but someone like me knows GGG is more than just some simple children's programming like Sesame Street or something, that it has things in it that do generate emotions within the viewer, and it does so without going to huge gritty, horribly dark extremes that shows for "older children" or "adults" do.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2015 23:08
|
|
|
Droyer posted:"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." C.S. Lewis Droyer posted:I kind of like it. By arguing I make it more clear for myself what I do and do not like. Same  
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2015 23:11
|
|
|
Steam posted:Also, minor tangent but the Zambot 3 description stuff was pretty heavily off. That show's claims to moral ambiguity are flimsy at best considering how horrible the villains are. Since I love me some Zambot 3 I'm going to grab this and run a little with it and say that Zambot 3 is less gray and more dark. It's in the same position as Getter Robo Armageddon, there's some morally ambiguous stuff going on but considering that Killer the Butcher is quite a bit worse than his name suggests he would be the protagonists are very solidly on the white. On the other hand show is pretty grim and does quite enjoy outlining all the collateral damage and suffering caused by the Guyzock invasion, especially since they're invading specifically to kill the heroes. As an additional advantage it's only 23 episodes, if you want to see a good unhappy Tomino show and don't want to really want to have to wade too far then go watch it and learn why he started being called "Kill-em-all Tomino". Droyer posted:"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." C.S. Lewis Definitely the best and most worthy thing Lewis ever said. It's a wonderful thing to be unafraid to like fun, silly, and even bad shows. My overriding feeling toward clawshrimpy is mostly pity.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2015 23:14
|
|
|
Clawshrimpy posted:I guess you could say that anime as a whole is intended for children, but when someone usually says "this is a children's show" as a way to point out a show has flawless characters and no depth, because having flawless characters and no depth is another way to say "bad" or "poorly written". 1) Saying a show has flawless characters and no depth is not synonymous with poorly written. 2) You take back what you said about Sesame Street. Edit: Seriously though, I feel you can't compare something like Sesame Street and GGG. Sesame Street is for very young children(1-5ish), has no continous story, and exists primarily to educate. GGG on the other hand Is intended for older children (8-12ish), has a continous story, and exists primarily to entertain. It's like comparing Fun With Numbers to Batman. Droyer fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Mar 19, 2015 |
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2015 23:19
|
|
|
Omnicrom posted:Definitely the best and most worthy thing Lewis ever said. It's a wonderful thing to be unafraid to like fun, silly, and even bad shows. My overriding feeling toward clawshrimpy is mostly pity. No joke when I was younger I really didnt like G Gundam because stuff like maxter was "dumb" in that way that insecure kids are about things. Maxters loving rad and I now embrace that.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2015 23:20
|
|
|
Clawshrimpy posted:Except.... the characters in GGG were people with flaws, just flaws that weren't you know, being horrible people. Okay, admittedly it's been awhile since i've watched GGG Final and I really don't want to scour Google for this and also my inability to remember the names of it's characters since in all honesty I didn't care enough to remember. Didn't that one cyborg lady get tortured and molested by a " sadistic bee-woman in bondage"?? The torture and whatever the hell else was implied by that scene makes a pretty clear cut case that the bee woman is without a doubt evil regardless of the fact that she was working with a group to save a galaxy. EDIT: I looked up the names. The robo-lady Renais was beedrilled by Sol Lord Pillnus.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2015 23:29
|
|
|
Lepecard posted:Okay, admittedly it's been awhile since i've watched GGG Final and I really don't want to scour Google for this and also my inability to remember the names of it's characters since in all honesty I didn't care enough to remember. Pilnus was one of the more monsterous Sol Lords Abel and Cain had to work with to accomplish their goals. She's supposed to be clearly evil and Renais does eventually defeat her with J's help, Abel and Cain were the ones with grey morality. Clawshrimpy fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Mar 19, 2015 |
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2015 23:33
|
|
|
Lepecard posted:Okay, admittedly it's been awhile since i've watched GGG Final and I really don't want to scour Google for this and also my inability to remember the names of it's characters since in all honesty I didn't care enough to remember. Yeah and they're all meant to be evil counterparts as well, Not literally but kinda in a shounen jump movie sort of way. Was a fun time though, Mic Sounders having a music battle with the big jazz whale was one of the highlights of that OVA.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2015 23:33
|
|
|
Clawshrimpy posted:Pilnus was one of the more monsterous Sol Lords Abel and Cain had to work with to accomplish their goals. She's supposed to be clearly evil, Abel and Cain were the ones with grey morality. You say had to, but where was it ever mentioned or implied that eaither of them had any reservations or issues with any of the other Sol Lords?
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2015 23:36
|
|
|
Droyer posted:You say had to, but where was it ever mentioned or implied that eaither of them had any reservations or issues with any of the other Sol Lords? Abel and Cain is characterized to be way less malevolent than the others. Having to work with a torturer (Pilnus) and someone fond of mind control/chemical experimentation (Palparepa) is something they felt they needed to do. The rest of them were mostly mute combat robots that are just as gray as Abel and Cain. Clawshrimpy fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Mar 20, 2015 |
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2015 23:58
|
|
|
The torturer dude sure but just because one of your buddies likes acid doesn't mean that you're just "putting up with them" they provide color commentary, even if the colors are ones you can't see
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2015 23:59
|
|
|
Clawshrimpy posted:But if the show in question lacks development and depth, doesn't it prove right everyone who says GGG is nothing but the kid's show everyone claims it is? That's it's effectively belongs in the same bin as Transformers and Digimon and has no literary merit compared to show where the main characters act horrible? Holy poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2015 00:06
|
|
|
Clawshrimpy posted:Abel and Cain is characterized to be way less malevolent than the others. Having to work with a torturer (Pilnus) and someone fond of mind control/chemical experimentation (Palparepa) is something they felt they needed to do. The rest of them were mostly mute combat robots that are just as gray as Abel and Cain. Cain has a total of one conversation, unless I remember incorrectly, so it's hard to say anything about his personality. Abel was really malevolent. For example: when she taunted J after having made Kaidou part of their J-ark counterpart. And you're still moving goalposts. I didn't ask whether or not Cain or Abel were any more or less evil than the rest, I asked if it was ever shown or implied they had any problems with theother Sol Masters.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2015 00:06
|
|
|
Beef Waifu posted:Holy poo poo. See this is why you got that knee jerk report, much as everyone involved hopes it'd be different this time it always unfolds the same way.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2015 00:08
|
|
|
Look, I love GaoGaiGar to death. I have all of the episodes on DVD that were released in American and would buy FINAL if it were localized here (It might be, I have no clue) even though I didn't super care for it. It is not that loving mentally pressing of a show though. Everything's insanely black and white and does not merit this kind of analysis.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2015 00:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 19:08 |
|
|
The forum is dying so anything to give it a shock to the heart in its final throes is good to me
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2015 00:13
|
|