Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Papercut
Aug 24, 2005

Ragequit posted:

I see that Grimrock 2 is 40% off, making it $14.39. What does it improve over the first game? I thought the first was fun enough, but it didn't blow me away or anything.

I didn't like it nearly as much as the first. It's a big overworld instead of one dungeon, but that just made the experience feel like this sprawling mess. A ton of super annoying enemies. The puzzles are okay, but by the end of the game it just felt like a major chore.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!

HGH posted:

With the popularity of roguelikes/lites these days(I know it's more of an NG+ focused game) I wonder if it would have done better, despite being more of a long term time investment than those games.
I get the feeling it actually might not, because most Roguelikes are balanced around single playthroughs and luck. Dragon Quarter was at least part-way balanced around the assumption that the player would save up their banked EXP to make them strong enough to make it further while using progressively less D%. While it was possible to reach the end of the game in a single run without any bonus EXP at all, the final areas became nightmarishly, overwhelmingly difficult. The last segment of the game required you to use so much D% that you had less than 1% error to work with, meaning you had to play literally perfectly both in combat and out.

You can say, "well just reset," but if you're that far into the game, that's kind of a disagreeable proposition.

I still think the biggest design flaw was that your bonus EXP was a consumable and if you made the wrong kinds of mistakes or mismanagement decisions with it, you might be forced back to the beginning of the game with no extra experience points at all and a bunch of "powerful" attacks that don't scale well to low-level characters. Roguelikes and rogue-lites are different in that they're almost arcadey; Dragon Quarter was an extremely marathon experience.

Fur20 fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Mar 20, 2015

Modus Pwnens
Dec 29, 2004

The White Dragon posted:

Dragon Quarter was an extremely marathon experience.

The best compliment I can give Dragon Quarter is that on my first playthrough, I maxed the D-Counter in the last phase of the last boss, and instead of putting the game away for good, I immediately started over at the beginning. I really can't think of another game, especially an RPG, that would say "No, gently caress you, start over," 25 hours in, and to which I'd say, "Okay."

Kanfy
Jan 9, 2012

Just gotta keep walking down that road.

Ragequit posted:

I see that Grimrock 2 is 40% off, making it $14.39. What does it improve over the first game? I thought the first was fun enough, but it didn't blow me away or anything.

It's an improvement in practically every way from environments and enemies to the skill system and puzzle design.

theultimo
Aug 2, 2004

An RSS feed bot who makes questionable purchasing decisions.
Pillbug

Modus Pwnens posted:

The best compliment I can give Dragon Quarter is that on my first playthrough, I maxed the D-Counter in the last phase of the last boss, and instead of putting the game away for good, I immediately started over at the beginning. I really can't think of another game, especially an RPG, that would say "No, gently caress you, start over," 25 hours in, and to which I'd say, "Okay."

Dead Rising 1 for me. Missed overtime by 1 min.

Awesome!
Oct 17, 2008

Ready for adventure!


lmao this looks awesome http://store.steampowered.com/app/347670/

like a cheesy jean claude van damme movie in game form

Justin_Brett
Oct 23, 2012

GAMERDOME put down LOSER
Eador: Genesis is fifty cents on GMG today - possibly for nothing, if you've done any playfire rewards lately.

theultimo
Aug 2, 2004

An RSS feed bot who makes questionable purchasing decisions.
Pillbug
If there is anyone else stupid enough to use amd gpus, new drivers!
http://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-articles/Pages/latest-catalyst-windows-beta.aspx

I'm hoping my laptop can work right now with them.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Shima Honnou posted:

The entire Assassin's Creed series, nothing there is really needed to be heard to play. Dead Rising 2 and OTF just got updated to Steamworks and also Dead Rising 3, although the things you collect in those games are blueprints, stuff to wear/use on zombies, and survivors. Far Cry series (In 2 you collect diamonds that are well hidden and also you 'collect' outposts; the 3 and 4 both are more standard Ubisoft collection games). Saints Row series but the music and some of the voice acting is pretty good so you might miss out. Two Worlds if you're good with sweet rear end RPG perfection, and bonus, since every enemy stays dead unless it becomes a ghost (Except for guards and poo poo in towns), you can perform MAJOR collection there by killing literally everything although you miss out on the classic voice acting of the protagonist and his love/hate relationship with bandits and rain.

Then of course there's always non-collection games. I find the Paradox grand strategy games like Crusader Kings and Europa Universalis are good for playing while listening to something else, as is Age of Empires 2. The Mount & Blade series is another good example of something you can easily play without sound since it's not vital at all except maybe to echolocate enemies on a battle map. Cities Skylines also, you don't really miss out if you mute that.
Thanks for the recs. I don't know if I'm gonna reinstall any older AC games (played them all up to 4 except Lib atm) just to finish the collect-a-thons - mostly cause the download sizes are huge, but I might now that I think about it. DR2OTR is something I go back to occasionally to just murder brainless masses of zombies in sandbox mode, but I'm waiting for the save migration. SR3/4 collectables were so easy that I finished them during regular play (except SR4's orbs that are scattered everywhere).

I will play all the bespoke story content and all that in regular play with full attention, just looking for any open world games with a bunch of side challenges/collect-a-thons to just finish off while I zone out. Preferably open-world games that don't take like 12 hours to come online so I can just collect random stuff inbetween story missions.

I'm actually not a big fan of say CK2/EU4/CIV5 with a podcast in the background, but that's mostly because I haven't played them long enough to internalize everything (which is why a open world game is easy). But 4X stuff I can't really play while listening to a podcast cause I'll end up losing my concentration by focusing on the game instead of the podcast. Cities: Skylines I might be okay with, I'll probably sink a few more hours into it before so, just to be sure.

Occultatio
Aug 4, 2005

a massive toolclown who cannot stop causing problems
Holy loving poo poo the difficulty in the final area of Guacamelee (Gold) spikes way the gently caress up. Like I can barely survive the second room of the Great Temple, with the two melee-shielded yellow skeletons. Up until now the game had been difficult but fun, but within five minutes I went from finding it engagingly challenging to so completely impossible as to not even be enjoyable any more.

I remember hearing people saying that the final area is an un-fun slog compared to the rest of the game, but this is making me want to put it down and never pick it back up, which is a shame given how awesome the first 90% of the game has been. Is this one of the issues that was tweaked/smoothed out in the Super Turbo Championship Edition?

Grimby
Sep 12, 2002

theultimo posted:

If there is anyone else stupid enough to use amd gpus, new drivers!
http://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-articles/Pages/latest-catalyst-windows-beta.aspx

I'm hoping my laptop can work right now with them.

I only use AMD GPUs because every Nvidia card I have ever had was a rotten experience. I am downloading these now, thanks.

Anonymous Robot
Jun 1, 2007

Lost his leg in Robo War I
Jeez, you guys weren't kidding about Hotline Miami 2 being a weird step down from the first game, as if the devs didn't really get what made it fun.

algebra testes
Mar 5, 2011


Lipstick Apathy
If I wanna just screw around with My Player and drop sick dunks as an Athletic Center, is NBA2k15 gonna scratch that itch on PC? Is not having a controller a problem?

Anonymous Robot posted:

Jeez, you guys weren't kidding about Hotline Miami 2 being a weird step down from the first game, as if the devs didn't really get what made it fun.

That friggin' 3rd level or whatever that is insanely tough is such an enthusiasm killer it isn't funny.

A Bystander
Oct 10, 2012

Occultatio posted:

Holy loving poo poo the difficulty in the final area of Guacamelee (Gold) spikes way the gently caress up. Like I can barely survive the second room of the Great Temple, with the two melee-shielded yellow skeletons. Up until now the game had been difficult but fun, but within five minutes I went from finding it engagingly challenging to so completely impossible as to not even be enjoyable any more.

I remember hearing people saying that the final area is an un-fun slog compared to the rest of the game, but this is making me want to put it down and never pick it back up, which is a shame given how awesome the first 90% of the game has been. Is this one of the issues that was tweaked/smoothed out in the Super Turbo Championship Edition?

Well, they give you the special throws at the very start and make them cost no stamina, and the regen upgrades means you can go nuts more often. It lets you do more things in the same amount of time in the regular game.

Testekill
Nov 1, 2012

I demand to be taken seriously

:aronrex:

LordPants posted:

If I wanna just screw around with My Player and drop sick dunks as an Athletic Center, is NBA2k15 gonna scratch that itch on PC? Is not having a controller a problem?


That friggin' 3rd level or whatever that is insanely tough is such an enthusiasm killer it isn't funny.

That the police station? Because that took my interest and beat it with a bat.

Deakul
Apr 2, 2012

PAM PA RAM

PAM PAM PARAAAAM!

Grimby posted:

I only use AMD GPUs because every Nvidia card I have ever had was a rotten experience. I am downloading these now, thanks.

Heh, I'm the opposite.
Never had anything but bad luck with ATI/AMD GPUs, nevermind that updating your drivers is almost always a nightmare with them.

Znae
Aug 13, 2009

Eviscerating that man on the operating table isn't that big a deal, just go back to medical school real quick and give it another shot.

LordPants posted:

If I wanna just screw around with My Player and drop sick dunks as an Athletic Center, is NBA2k15 gonna scratch that itch on PC? Is not having a controller a problem?

Not sure how well it will scratch the itch because when I played it during the free weekend it ran like poo poo for me.

When I googled it to try to fix the slow down it just sounded like it was really poorly optimized.

theultimo
Aug 2, 2004

An RSS feed bot who makes questionable purchasing decisions.
Pillbug

Deakul posted:

Heh, I'm the opposite.
Never had anything but bad luck with ATI/AMD GPUs, nevermind that updating your drivers is almost always a nightmare with them.

Haven't had issues with desktop gpus (using Nvidia now though) but AMD Enduro is so bad on laptops. Performance is fine, if you can get it to work.

Shima Honnou
Dec 1, 2010

The Once And Future King Of Dicetroit

College Slice

LordPants posted:

If I wanna just screw around with My Player and drop sick dunks as an Athletic Center, is NBA2k15 gonna scratch that itch on PC? Is not having a controller a problem?


That friggin' 3rd level or whatever that is insanely tough is such an enthusiasm killer it isn't funny.

It gets even harder, but also more ridiculous for people who are insanely good at the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4Wgz2TbcfE

Accordion Man
Nov 7, 2012


Buglord

Occultatio posted:

Holy loving poo poo the difficulty in the final area of Guacamelee (Gold) spikes way the gently caress up. Like I can barely survive the second room of the Great Temple, with the two melee-shielded yellow skeletons. Up until now the game had been difficult but fun, but within five minutes I went from finding it engagingly challenging to so completely impossible as to not even be enjoyable any more.

I remember hearing people saying that the final area is an un-fun slog compared to the rest of the game, but this is making me want to put it down and never pick it back up, which is a shame given how awesome the first 90% of the game has been. Is this one of the issues that was tweaked/smoothed out in the Super Turbo Championship Edition?
Yeah, Super Turbo makes the game a lot less bullshit. I was never able to beat Javier in Gold, but I managed to beat him on my first try in Super Turbo.

HGH
Dec 20, 2011

Anonymous Robot posted:

Jeez, you guys weren't kidding about Hotline Miami 2 being a weird step down from the first game, as if the devs didn't really get what made it fun.

Shima Honnou posted:

It gets even harder, but also more ridiculous for people who are insanely good at the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4Wgz2TbcfE
I actually really like the direction they went, especially the above boat level (Dead Ahead).
If anything, I think the devs are intentionally messing with their fanbase. The game just handles way differently despite being more or less "more of the same". It's way slower and planning-oriented. A lot of people bring up the "getting shot from off screen" thing but I've never not known where someone was when I get shot.

Tezzeract
Dec 25, 2007

Think I took a wrong turn...
Path of Exile is pretty hard to get into. Are there any advice from vets on how to make the game more streamlined/fun?

Mokinokaro
Sep 11, 2001

At the end of everything, hold onto anything



Fun Shoe

Tezzeract posted:

Path of Exile is pretty hard to get into. Are there any advice from vets on how to make the game more streamlined/fun?

The first act in general is kind of a slog. Things pick up in act 2, but you need a good amount of patience to get there.

Anonymous Robot
Jun 1, 2007

Lost his leg in Robo War I

HGH posted:

I actually really like the direction they went, especially the above boat level (Dead Ahead).
If anything, I think the devs are intentionally messing with their fanbase. The game just handles way differently despite being more or less "more of the same". It's way slower and planning-oriented. A lot of people bring up the "getting shot from off screen" thing but I've never not known where someone was when I get shot.

It's less "not knowing where they are" and more, having to deal with multiple enemies in a large room, you prioritize the ones you can see naturally, and get shot by the ones you can't.

The devs "intentionally messing with their fanbase" by making a game that's way worse than the previous one isn't really very clever.

Cathair
Jan 7, 2008
I just finished my first playthrough of the original Hotline Miami yesterday, and after watching the SBF LP of the first 11 chapters of Hotline 2 I'm starting to think that most of the negativity directed toward it is a bunch of bullshit from people who don't actually remember how the first one played. I'm not seeing much here that's out of line for the usual Hotline Miami experience.

The enemy count on Dead Ahead is a bit much, mostly because it favors repetitive tactics over cleverness, and I can't argue with criticisms of the writer guy's gimmick- it doesn't seem hard to work around, but it doesn't make for a fun level that I'd want to replay. But in terms of overall game difficulty, it seems like the only major fault here is the assumption that you're coming in already proficient and ready to rumble, whereas the first one gave you a few more easy levels to get used to things. If the third level of 2 was enough to kill your enthusiasm, go back and try practically any level in the latter half of 1 and see how fast it makes you ragequit.

Insofar as bullshit deaths go, there do seem to be more open spaces and windows, but I think people have forgotten that you always, always needed to be looking ahead in 1. I ended up just holding down Shift at all times, felt more fluid that way. It's like people expected to be able to just jump back into 'arcade mode' play and forgot that that level of proficiency only comes with a lot of practice, that your first couple of hours in Hotline Miami are always going to feel more like a puzzle game and you will die if you just charge in.

In terms of AI bugs, I have yet to personally see anything even as bad as the bugs still present in Hotline Miami 1. The highlight of my recent run was a disarmed policeman fleeing straight through the wall of an elevator, making me restart the level because he was content to just chill out there in the ether where nothing could touch him.


Maybe the second game goes even more overboard later on, I don't know. But from what I can see right now, it seems like people's memories of Hotline 1 have just faded into some kind of vague hype-glow that has whitewashed all the bullshit and inherent difficulty. The game was/is fun as hell despite all that, but it sure wasn't as perfect as some people think.

Testekill
Nov 1, 2012

I demand to be taken seriously

:aronrex:

Looking at the Total Extreme Wrestling steam forum and it's amazing how entitled steam users are.

King Vidiot
Feb 17, 2007

You think you can take me at Satan's Hollow? Go 'head on!

HGH posted:

I actually really like the direction they went, especially the above boat level (Dead Ahead).
If anything, I think the devs are intentionally messing with their fanbase. The game just handles way differently despite being more or less "more of the same". It's way slower and planning-oriented. A lot of people bring up the "getting shot from off screen" thing but I've never not known where someone was when I get shot.

I think people are misremembering the first game. I went back and played it just an hour or so ago, and the timing on guys across the map turning to fire on you is just a bit faster in the first game I've found. There's also the fact that the maps are smaller so there's no "safe distance" to not get spotted by enemies. Go back and compare the second-to-last Jacket level in the first game (the one just before the boss) to the Henchman level in Wrong Number. The two levels both have comparable layouts, but where they differ is in how quickly you'll get spotted and attacked by enemies with guns. Gun enemies in the first game will turn-pivot-and-shoot in half a second. I've seen them walking normally and then appear to almost shoot behind them before I even notice they've turned around. In the second game, a gun enemy will turn quickly to face you and if you haven't ducked out of sight in the time it takes them to see you they'll try to fire at you. But you have the opportunity to duck back out of sight, provided you know the gun enemy is there.

And that's the difference between the games. Enemies seem to actually attack you faster in the first game, but they'll be further off-screen than you can see in the second. Most people's problems seem to come from the fact that enemies have enough time to shoot you only because you don't know they're there on a first playthrough. If you know they're there you fire the first shot or bait them to run to you, don't just stand out in the open gawking at them.

Insert name here
Nov 10, 2009

Oh.
Oh Dear.
:ohdear:
Yeah when HLM2 came out I decided to boot the first game up because I only played the first 2 or 3 levels and figured I'd give it a go and I definitely found myself getting kill from off-screen all the time which sort of confused me when people kept complaining about it in HLM2.

Drifter
Oct 22, 2000

Belated Bear Witness
Soiled Meat

Insert name here posted:

Yeah when HLM2 came out I decided to boot the first game up because I only played the first 2 or 3 levels and figured I'd give it a go and I definitely found myself getting kill from off-screen all the time which sort of confused me when people kept complaining about it in HLM2.

nostalgia hits hard, like a baseball bat to your brain.

Tezzeract
Dec 25, 2007

Think I took a wrong turn...

Mokinokaro posted:

The first act in general is kind of a slog. Things pick up in act 2, but you need a good amount of patience to get there.

I have a guy in Act 2, but forgot what my build was and the passives were refunded. Not a huge fan of the skill gem system - I seem to experiment less because of it.

Anonymous Robot
Jun 1, 2007

Lost his leg in Robo War I
Writing off widespread criticisms of the second game as people being nostalgic (for a two year old game??) or not remembering the first is pretty patronizing. There were far fewer gun-carrying enemies in HLM1, and they tended to be much more static or predictable in their positioning. Additionally, enemy AI would hesitate if you moved quickly towards it- I'm not sure if that's still the case in HLM2 or not yet, but the wide spaces at least seem to mitigate it.

Cathair
Jan 7, 2008

Anonymous Robot posted:

Writing off widespread criticisms of the second game as people being nostalgic (for a two year old game??) or not remembering the first is pretty patronizing. There were far fewer gun-carrying enemies in HLM1, and they tended to be much more static or predictable in their positioning. Additionally, enemy AI would hesitate if you moved quickly towards it- I'm not sure if that's still the case in HLM2 or not yet, but the wide spaces at least seem to mitigate it.

There were fewer enemies in general in HLM1. In Dead Ahead, for example, there's a ton of dudes with guns but it looks like at least as many guys with melee weapons too.

And what about the police station levels in HLM1, for example? Only a couple of guys with nightsticks, everybody else packing major heat. Again, I literally just played that a couple of days ago and they weren't that static- the first floor in particular had people randomly deciding to stroll out of side rooms in ways I hadn't seen before even after ten tries or so.

Enemy AI does hesitate if you rush them, but it only works over short distances and is much more reliable if you rush an enemy's back or side. If you rush a gun-wielding enemy who happens to be facing you, you're going to get capped incredibly quickly even if it's the first time he's seen you. I'm watching videos of HLM2 right now where people are repeatedly surviving risky moments by what looks like luck, getting by on more hesitation than I would ever plan on recieving from armed, alerted enemies.

Anonymous Robot
Jun 1, 2007

Lost his leg in Robo War I
I guess all I can say is that I'd be interested to see if you felt the same after playing the second game, rather than watching it.

Shadow225
Jan 2, 2007




Occultatio posted:

Holy loving poo poo the difficulty in the final area of Guacamelee (Gold) spikes way the gently caress up. Like I can barely survive the second room of the Great Temple, with the two melee-shielded yellow skeletons. Up until now the game had been difficult but fun, but within five minutes I went from finding it engagingly challenging to so completely impossible as to not even be enjoyable any more.

I remember hearing people saying that the final area is an un-fun slog compared to the rest of the game, but this is making me want to put it down and never pick it back up, which is a shame given how awesome the first 90% of the game has been. Is this one of the issues that was tweaked/smoothed out in the Super Turbo Championship Edition?

Save your power-up for those guys. It automatically breaks any barriers.

Shima Honnou
Dec 1, 2010

The Once And Future King Of Dicetroit

College Slice

Testekill posted:

Looking at the Total Extreme Wrestling steam forum and it's amazing how entitled steam users are.

The thing that sucks about it is that it's an older version of TEW. But yes, Steam users are kinda hilariously entitled.

Instruction Manuel
May 15, 2007

Yes, it is what it looks like!

Anonymous Robot posted:

Writing off widespread criticisms of the second game as people being nostalgic (for a two year old game??) or not remembering the first is pretty patronizing. There were far fewer gun-carrying enemies in HLM1, and they tended to be much more static or predictable in their positioning. Additionally, enemy AI would hesitate if you moved quickly towards it- I'm not sure if that's still the case in HLM2 or not yet, but the wide spaces at least seem to mitigate it.

Enemies do hesitate in HLM 2. More so than in 1. It also made me play the game more boldly than the first. gently caress the haters, the game is great for me ;)

Cathair
Jan 7, 2008

Anonymous Robot posted:

I guess all I can say is that I'd be interested to see if you felt the same after playing the second game, rather than watching it.

I'm aware of this limitation and will rectify it shortly. To be fair, this is the kind of game where if you watch somebody operating at a speed similar to your own, following a plan similar to what you would come up with yourself, and it works, then you can be reasonably sure that you could actually do the same yourself. If this was not the case, I wouldn't be posting this even with the requisite caveats of conjecture.

King Vidiot
Feb 17, 2007

You think you can take me at Satan's Hollow? Go 'head on!

Wamdoodle posted:

Enemies do hesitate in HLM 2. More so than in 1. It also made me play the game more boldly than the first. gently caress the haters, the game is great for me ;)

Yeah, it feels more like an actual "human" reaction time rather than something decided by some computer algorithm. I think how the devs said it worked in the original is that reaction times are multiplied by the distance you are away from them, to try to discourage you from running out in the open, so if a gun guy is further than like 5 scale feet he'll turn-and-fire a lot faster. While it might still work that way in the second, the enemies still turn at a reasonable speed to fire at you instead of a split-second after leaving cover. I just kind of wish they didn't have eyes in the backs of their heads, but then it might be too easy.

I think overall Wrong Number is harder than the first game in some aspects and a little easier in other aspects. It feels more "polished", for whatever that's worth.

AfricanBootyShine
Jan 9, 2006

Snake wins.

I'll be happy to play Hotline Miami 2 after I get it for $1 in a humble bundle. At best, it sounds like more of the first... Which I wouldn't pay >$5 on a good day. I'd rather buy the soundtrack and play the first game.

Also, I'd like to hear from someone who enjoys Assassin's Creed's combat. Because it's always been awkward and janky to me. Give me Batman/Mordor combat or give me Revengeance. Not poorly timed counter bullshit dictated by longass boring animations.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Drifter
Oct 22, 2000

Belated Bear Witness
Soiled Meat

AfricanBootyShine posted:

I'll be happy to play Hotline Miami 2 after I get it for $1 in a humble bundle. At best, it sounds like more of the first... Which I wouldn't pay >$5 on a good day. I'd rather buy the soundtrack and play the first game.

Also, I'd like to hear from someone who enjoys Assassin's Creed's combat. Because it's always been awkward and janky to me. Give me Batman/Mordor combat or give me Revengeance. Not poorly timed counter bullshit dictated by longass boring animations.

AssCreed combat is about as complex and interesting as the combat in the Lego Batman games. Or like the bonus stages in Street Fighter 2.

  • Locked thread