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ive played 14 games in my nicholas and havent won one of them.... damnit i just want a Farragut
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Mar 21, 2015 06:05
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SuperSix posted:ive played 14 games in my nicholas and havent won one of them.... If you are getting shot at it usually means you screwed up. You should be dropping torps and slipping behind an island/smokescreen/kongo. Usually you get a change to sneak over onto the other side and catch a couple battleships or carriers unawares.
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Mar 21, 2015 06:10
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:It's pretty important if you can actually shoot or torp when you enter the circle, otherwise yeah. See, I'm ok with that. I was in a game those where our farragut and other DDs started to race to cap, noticed they were getting capped already then ran away and hid behind islands for the rest of the game. I took a torp hit from an enemy DD that came out, but our DD did nothing but sit there and hide. They weren't doing anti dd work, they weren't trying to ninja the nagato that was crossing two islands in giant open waters. They just huddled next to an island and turned the engine off. Once the side they were near started to collapse, they fired up the engines and ran away to the other side. Meanwhile the even more expensive cruisers and battleships were driving headlong into said nagato and other stuff without care and just congo lining to them. Our tier 7 was a carrier (which btw, the enemy didn't have one). It just made no sense. All our team went this one side, the nagato was spotted heading to our side, I never saw our torp bombers get anywhere near any of this. Also, this game really shows off n+1 type combat. Pubbie lemming trains actually work in this game, but people don't seem to be doing it. There is a reason fleets consisted of mixed sets of ships in a ball. Cruisers escorting battleships with dd screening ahead and behind is an amazing wrecking ball, but it rarely happens. Carrier pilots, I have a pro tip for you. When your planes are set for their bombing run, shift click somewhere for them to next fly to. Then shift-f for them to return from that point. Preferably, set the waypoint somewhere off where the enemy can't see them correct heading towards you. Every carrier I've sunk to this point has had a flag going "I'm over here!!!!" as their planes return to land. And it has always been a direct path. Edit: cleveland bought
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Mar 21, 2015 06:15
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xthetenth posted:Incidentally literally all of those things but armor have gently caress all to do with rng, and I very sorely distrust the word of idiots with simhard agendas like that rather than thinking they bolloxed up armor a bit when I still haven't gotten a citadel hit on an enemy with sharply angled armor or anything that would belie the existence of armor.  But yeah I'm really skeptical of people saying armour doesn't exist and it's all just RNG and hitboxes until someone can prove for sure
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Mar 21, 2015 06:21
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Insert name here posted:I've gotten citadel hits on ships with sharply angled armour because they were so far away it just plunged in from above instead Especially considering I've done some pretty serious amounts of work testing it and it's consistent with that armor model and nothing else (bows are probably still overmodeled as dead space, but that might be accurate, not much info on that subject).
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Mar 21, 2015 06:34
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Looking at the Fuso modules.. I'm wondering if it really is worth it to upgrade the guns. I think I prefer the faster turn rate to the +1 artillery.... Any thoughts?
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Mar 21, 2015 06:43
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Dalael posted:Looking at the Fuso modules.. I'm wondering if it really is worth it to upgrade the guns. Where exactly is the +1 artillery coming from? I'd be hard pressed to take slower turn for something like 2 seconds faster reload.
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Mar 21, 2015 06:48
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xthetenth posted:What do you feel that about? Honestly curious since the really major changes were likely before you could have seen them. Gunnery, mostly. Compared to tanks this is incredibly trivial. If you can get the basic concept of "lead your target", some number of your shells will hit them. Adjust your lead based on if you want to citadel them or try for an engine crit. Maybe use HE situationally. Aside from that, mash LMB and see what the RNG gives you. I haven't seen any changes, but I'd started playing expecting a similar level of simulation as WoT, from the same damned company. When I found it lacking, I checked to see when it would be implemented - and found that it WAS implemented, then removed because pubbies are bad at games. Strategy wise, shallows meant more than just slightly more open water for DDs, it meant they could take shortcuts between islands that weren't available to the larger boats. Again, removed. Buoyancy as a stat meant that while a hit below the waterline wouldn't do a ton of damage, it could sink them if they didn't repair in time; more importantly it would leave them slower and less maneuverable. Right now there's just the on/off of engine works/rudder works, which are fixed in seconds with a tap of R. With flooding, sure, R would patch the hole, but until you get all that water pumped out you're still going to be sluggish. What changed is I went from expecting these in a future patch, to finding out they'd already been in-game, tested, and removed in favor of what I feel is an overly simple system. See the difference? Before I was playing a game that wasn't what I wanted yet. Now it's a game that's not what I wanted, and is going in the wrong direction. And Jesus, either give us a stipend or a few extra garage slots. Juggling ships in a loving beta test is stupid.
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Mar 21, 2015 06:51
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Harik posted:a similar level of simulation as WoT, from the same damned company. Because the WoT accuracy model is so RNG-independent. 
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Mar 21, 2015 06:57
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xthetenth posted:Where exactly is the +1 artillery coming from? I'd be hard pressed to take slower turn for something like 2 seconds faster reload. The 360 mm/45 Type41 upgrade gives the following: +0.1 rate of fire (from 2.0 to 2.1 rounds/min) +2.6sec for 180 Degree turn time (From 47.4s to 50.0s) +1 artillery (From 69 to 70) I think I prefer without the upgrade... + 0.1 RoF and +1 artillery is not worth +2.6 sec of turn time for the guns in my book.
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Mar 21, 2015 07:11
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Yeah, there needs to be a dev video on domination and how it works. I'm really not happy when I'm busting my shoulders trying to kill poo poo and not be killed. Then I look up and see that our team is down half their ships, we are at 175 points and the enemy team is cruising at 500+. There is no way to turn that kind of deficit around when you also take note that the 2 ships that have been sunk was either assisted by you, or straight up by you. And all the other enemy ships still have 75+% health remaining. Also, the cleveland kind of sucks. I know it is stock still, but I'm not seeing it. Sure, dpm or something, but I still feel like I need to tip toe around battleships. The Aoba on the other hand has all the tools in the box to give a battleship hell. Large guns and quad torps will keep a battleship on edge. I know the Pensacola will solve the issue, but just not seeing it in the cleveland. edit: Dalael posted:The 360 mm/45 Type41 upgrade gives the following: Note that the +1 artillery is a rating. So you are gaining 1 more point in artillery rating because of the increased RoF. As you said, doesn't really seem worth it compared to slower turning. I'm actually looking at a similar issue on the cleveland. 10 extra seconds on rotation for 1.5 rounds/min increase. It might help, but I dunno. You would think I would be ok with this since the aoba still turns her turrets even slower. Edit2: Btw, for those that don't know or notice, the Pensacola has a mixed turret with the upgraded hull. 2x3 203s + 2x2 203s. So keep that in mind. JuffoWup fucked around with this message at 07:21 on Mar 21, 2015 |
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Mar 21, 2015 07:15
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JuffoWup posted:Yeah, there needs to be a dev video on domination and how it works. I'm really not happy when I'm busting my shoulders trying to kill poo poo and not be killed. Then I look up and see that our team is down half their ships, we are at 175 points and the enemy team is cruising at 500+. There is no way to turn that kind of deficit around when you also take note that the 2 ships that have been sunk was either assisted by you, or straight up by you. And all the other enemy ships still have 75+% health remaining. Aoba masterrace 
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Mar 21, 2015 07:17
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I know this is probably a dumb question because things are super early and it is all up for rebalance / testing etc, but if I was looking to generally be a speed rear end in a top hat / never get seen or hit and just dunk on things with torps, which nation's destroyer line should I look for at present? I see that cruisers carry torps after a certain tier too, is that something that should be factored in?
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Mar 21, 2015 07:27
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Strobe posted:Because the WoT accuracy model is so RNG-independent. It's a tighter spread, at least on the tanks I tended to drive. I like being able to pop someone right in their ammo rack when I aim for it, dammit! I deleted a spergy-long post about it, but the difference between the games is in WoWS you are shooting volleys, not individual shells. So it's a shotgun effect - big dispersion means as long as the giant circle is over the target, it's as good as if you're dead-center. Sloppy aim gets (on average) as many shells into them as good aim. With more accuracy, not only do you have to work to hit someone, but someone who does that work gets rewarded for it by getting more hits.
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Mar 21, 2015 07:28
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Innerguard posted:I know this is probably a dumb question because things are super early and it is all up for rebalance / testing etc, but if I was looking to generally be a speed rear end in a top hat / never get seen or hit and just dunk on things with torps, which nation's destroyer line should I look for at present? I see that cruisers carry torps after a certain tier too, is that something that should be factored in? You want IJN destroyers, but word of warning, at Tier 6, the reload becomes 3x as long but has a much higher range. It's hard to torp close quarters because missing a salvo is punishing and almost certain death. Under tier 6 is fun as hell. I went down IJN destroyers first because I enjoyed what you've described, but I've just found that its hard after tier 6, with pretty much everything loving you up. Now I'm going up USN destroyers and they're a lot more versatile since their guns actually work. You might want to check our IJN cruisers if you want a ship that wont die at a glance and still have torps while holding their own against most ships, just not as fast.
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Mar 21, 2015 07:31
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Innerguard posted:I know this is probably a dumb question because things are super early and it is all up for rebalance / testing etc, but if I was looking to generally be a speed rear end in a top hat / never get seen or hit and just dunk on things with torps, which nation's destroyer line should I look for at present? I see that cruisers carry torps after a certain tier too, is that something that should be factored in? The Isokaze is at a good position. It's a tier 4 Japanese destroyer, it's got 3x2 torpedo tubes with good damage and reload, and mainly fights trash tier cruiser and battleships. The destroyer motto is "torp things quickly", so don't expect to live very long, but fighting at very close range is fun and rewarding. If you launch a torp spread while a ship is parallel to you and within 2km range, they almost cannot dodge it. Harik posted:It's a tighter spread, at least on the tanks I tended to drive. I like being able to pop someone right in their ammo rack when I aim for it, dammit! If somebody knows what they're doing, they'll change heading and speed and make aiming actually important. I can win battleship duels because the other guy just travels in a straight line and I citadel-hit all day. It's the same in tanks, being good is more about killing pubbies quickly than anything else.
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Mar 21, 2015 08:11
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:If somebody knows what they're doing, they'll change heading and speed and make aiming actually important. I can win battleship duels because the other guy just travels in a straight line and I citadel-hit all day. It's the same in tanks, being good is more about killing pubbies quickly than anything else. That... doesn't change what I'm saying at all? Them turning doesn't make your spread tighter; a big spread shotgun style gives you a lot more leeway to nail someone evading.
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Mar 21, 2015 08:27
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Harik posted:It's a tighter spread, at least on the tanks I tended to drive. I like being able to pop someone right in their ammo rack when I aim for it, dammit!
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Mar 21, 2015 08:33
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Harik posted:That... doesn't change what I'm saying at all? Them turning doesn't make your spread tighter; a big spread shotgun style gives you a lot more leeway to nail someone evading. Even with "shotgun style spread" having good aim means you're going to get more shots on average hitting where you want, so saying they get the same number of shells on target is kind of misleading.
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Mar 21, 2015 08:40
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Of my three IJN captains, two have exactly the same name.
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Mar 21, 2015 08:44
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Generation Internet posted:Thanks for posting that, I've been watching a ton of videos while dreaming of a CBT key and it's refreshing to see one without the standard 'YouTuber' commentary. No keys to hand out, unfortunately (  ), but you can watch us be bad at boats and poo poo up chat about how WoWS doesn't fulfill your lifelong goal of being a real ship IRL with realistic armor characteristics and all like Harold the Helicopter.
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Mar 21, 2015 09:14
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The mind of a pubbie is a wondrous thing and should be analized by scientists. One of them was complaining about us losing the game when only 1 dude had been killed so far. After telling him that Pokemon may be better suited for him, he went all spergy and tried to blame our impending loss on me. The match ended in a loss alright. The guy's achievement by the end of the match (he survived the entire game) amounted to 5 planes killed and less than 300XP. Literally the worst player on our team. I had no choice but to message him after the end of the match to let him know that even Pokemon may be too hard for him. Solitaire may be more his thing.
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Mar 21, 2015 10:21
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Matchmaking woes.png At least we got a Langley and a... Nicholas...? No wait, they had a Minekaze too.
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Mar 21, 2015 10:47
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I got a Beta invite from some amazingly kind goon and have played about 20 games so far. First impressions? It's all a bit too simple. OK I have only tier 2 ships at the moment but it really does seem to be set throttle to max, avoid running into islands, and shoot. As long as you know how to lead shots and have map awareness you seem to have all the skills you need. I won't say it's a bad game but I will say it's not going to be the game that just about everybody wanted and I don't think it's going to be the time filler I was looking forward too. It's not grabbed me by the balls like WoT beta did that's for sure.
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Mar 21, 2015 11:46
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It gets more complex once carriers and battleships really enter the mix (and everyone else get access to AA and torps), there's a couple of different game modes that don't show up early either. I don't see how it's less complex than WoT gameplay, even if it's not super complex in itself.
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Mar 21, 2015 11:48
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Pimpmust posted:It gets more complex once carriers and battleships really enter the mix (and everyone else get access to AA and torps), there's a couple of different game modes that don't show up early either. Having to play loads of games to get access to more interesting game play? That's a winning strategy right there.
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Mar 21, 2015 11:50
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Anyone know the difference between the commander skills High Alert and Repair Work?
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Mar 21, 2015 11:54
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Burt posted:Having to play loads of games to get access to more interesting game play? That's a winning strategy right there. Starting off slowly and the introducing more mechanics as people get used to the game is something basically every single game ever made does.
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Mar 21, 2015 11:58
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Burt posted:Having to play loads of games to get access to more interesting game play? That's a winning strategy right there. It's really easy to play the handful of matches required to get up the early tiers. I can't imagine it'll be harder than the couple of hours it takes to do it in World of Tanks. Right now, it only takes a handful of decent games to clear the early ships so
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Mar 21, 2015 12:39
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NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:It's really easy to play the handful of matches required to get up the early tiers. I can't imagine it'll be harder than the couple of hours it takes to do it in World of Tanks. The best gameplay in World of Tanks is tier 2.
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Mar 21, 2015 12:52
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Yeah because a bunch of the higher level stuff isn't introduced or important yet. Tier 1 and 2 own a lot in WoWS too because you can just cruise around shelling people instead of worrying about anti aircraft coverage or torpedo bombers or really much of anything aside from shooting people in the face at close range.
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Mar 21, 2015 12:56
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Also, the problem i've experienced with 8" guns is that they still have a really wide spread of damage and the lows are a lot rougher because you don't have the Cleveland's quick fire to even things out.
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Mar 21, 2015 13:11
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Burt posted:It's all a bit too simple. I actually sorta agree with this. I have a tier 5 of every class except destroyers, so at least I've gotten my feet wet, and I'm still thinking it's kinda... shallow? Sorta. On the surface, it only really has one game mechanic, and that's leading targets. I'm thinking the real mechanic might be deciding which targets to lead though. I've seen a lot of pubbies complain about how "there's no balance between classes" and well, no, there isn't, and that's intentional, because I think they intended for the way the different classes support each other to be a game mechanic as well. Unfortunately though it's not, because pubbies are illiterate retards and don't understand such things. As far as the armor discussion goes, so far as far as I'm concerned it might as well be RNG. Outside of knife range (where you don't really want to go unless you have torps) you can't really reliably hit anywhere specific anyway so you just spam shots and hope for a lucky hit.
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Mar 21, 2015 14:35
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TheFluff posted:I actually sorta agree with this. I have a tier 5 of every class except destroyers, so at least I've gotten my feet wet, and I'm still thinking it's kinda... shallow? Sorta. On the surface, it only really has one game mechanic, and that's leading targets. I'm thinking the real mechanic might be deciding which targets to lead though. I've seen a lot of pubbies complain about how "there's no balance between classes" and well, no, there isn't, and that's intentional, because I think they intended for the way the different classes support each other to be a game mechanic as well. Unfortunately though it's not, because pubbies are illiterate retards and don't understand such things. Lol this is so wrong. You should actively be trying to dump long range shots onto turrets or in the middle over the citadel as most people never try to dodge at long range
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Mar 21, 2015 14:51
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Fart Car '97 posted:never try to dodge at long range They do, though? Even battleships are basically always at least in a turn or something. I mean yeah against a St Louis you can sorta decide where you want to hit because he's both slow as poo poo and probably really new to the game so he never turns, but against anyone else, yeah. You hit what you hit and be thankful for it. Oneshotting destroyers at 4 km in the Phoenix never gets old though. TheFluff fucked around with this message at 14:57 on Mar 21, 2015 |
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Mar 21, 2015 14:53
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The mechanics as I've identified them: Plotting Movement & dealing with Terrain: Unlike tanks you are always on the move (unless you are a dumb pubbie), regardless of ship you need to plot out a course that will take you where you need to be, while avoiding the worst dangers. The "how" differs between the different classes. Cap Zones/Different game modes: Do you need defenders? Should you mass forces? In random battles it's hard to control, but with ship divisions you can influence it. Leading and targeting - Hitting poo poo with guns: Right, how to hit what you are shooting at. The obvious mechanic, but differs for carriers and how long ranged / slow firing your guns are. Hitting the Citadel, part of "targeting" but good to keep in mind. Angling your ship for maximum defence and offence: seems simple, but differs between ship configurations (even in the same class) Defensive maneuvering in general Fishing with Torpedoes: A whole different can of fish that also changes up between ships and classes. Torpedoes is the great equalizer, but a short ranged one (effectively). The Air Game: Right, either you are in a carrier or you are trying to avoid getting hit by one, but everyone needs to learn how to defend against air attacks. Capital ships vs Light ships or "How to sink a BB or a CV / Avoid those pesky fuckers". Damage control: You are going to get hit, so when to use that damage control for best effect? Forming up in Divisions/fleets and getting stuff done together. Meta stuff: Picking a class and getting real good at it Leveling your captain Picking ship configurations, matters more for some ships than others right now. Did I miss anything? It's more complex stuff than World of Tanks, that's for sure. They could do more with ship upgrades/introducing more sidegrades, although some of that will come just by adding more ship classes/trees. Objectives and game modes could also have a little more depth to them, or at least alternative game modes that aren't quick random skirmishes. Pimpmust fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Mar 21, 2015 |
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Mar 21, 2015 15:05
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A less obvious use of torpedoes is to flush attentive enemies into new courses, preferably ones advantageous to you. Against smarter pubbies (and they do crop up occasionally), they're almost more useful as area-denial than as actual weapons.
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Mar 21, 2015 15:28
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There's no way this is more complex than world of tanks. Armor is effectively taken out of consideration when I can regularly get citadel pens on an Amagi in a Kongo. By the way why does my turret occasionally get knocked out entirely for the round as opposed to the times it gets knocked out in the same way as a rudder or prop, and is repairable?
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Mar 21, 2015 15:47
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Pimpmust posted:The mechanics as I've identified them: is this c/p from the official forums DonkeyHotay posted:By the way why does my turret occasionally get knocked out entirely for the round as opposed to the times it gets knocked out in the same way as a rudder or prop, and is repairable? sometimes turrets get "knocked out", sometimes they get destroyed
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Mar 21, 2015 15:50
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Also the Fuso is retarded. 3 games played in it stock and I did 108k, 89k, and 113k damage.
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Mar 21, 2015 15:51
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