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Pinterest Mom posted:You can tell Al Gore didn't win the EC by the way he never served as president. You can argue (and I would) that a fair election and count in Florida would have resulted in Florida's electors casting their votes for Gore, but that didn't happen. No poo poo, I'm well aware of what Bush v Gore said. I'm just saying the major issue wasn't the Popular/EC split, but was the fact that Gore was literally robbed by a Supreme Court largely appointed by administrations that had a Bush in them.
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Mar 22, 2015 16:01
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Rygar201 posted:The big issue in 2000 wasn't so much the popular vote/EC split so much as it was that Al Gore actually won the EC too, right? No, not in the least bit. The final tally was 271/266, hinging on Florida. Bush edged Gore by .01% of the vote in Florida (a plurality, not a majority). The big issue in 2000 was the highly partisan nature of the court battles (and court rulings) in the Florida Supreme Court and the US Supreme Court. However, in the end it does appear that Bush was elected, not selected.
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Mar 22, 2015 16:05
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DynamicSloth posted:I think some of you are underestimating Cruz a bit too much, yeah he's thoroughly alienated the Republican establishment, but it's not like the Republican establishment ever backed Herman Cain, Ron Paul, Rick Santorum or especially Newt Gingrich last time around and Cruz is a better retail politician than any of those guys. And every single one of them were insane circus side shows that were never seriously going to get the nomination?
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Mar 22, 2015 16:06
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Rygar201 posted:The big issue in 2000 wasn't so much the popular vote/EC split so much as it was that Al Gore actually won the EC too, right? Not really, but I bet if it happens 15 years later there will also be a large percentage of Republicans stomping their feet about how they were totally cheated by the system.
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Mar 22, 2015 16:06
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Rygar201 posted:No poo poo, I'm well aware of what Bush v Gore said. I'm just saying the major issue wasn't the Popular/EC split, but was the fact that Gore was literally robbed by a Supreme Court largely appointed by administrations that had a Bush in them. Except that an after-the-fact recount was done under various hypothetical Gore-wins-the-case scenarios, and Bush still won.
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Mar 22, 2015 16:08
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Series DD Funding posted:Except that an after-the-fact recount was done under various hypothetical Gore-wins-the-case scenarios, and Bush still won. Oh yeah, Joe has posted the results numerous times. I think the margin was less than the number of people who voted for the crazy Yogo candidate. Please ignore all of my previous posts then.
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Mar 22, 2015 16:09
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Three Olives posted:I pretty much stayed out of it but how did Cruz win Texas anyways? Doesn't basically everyone that has had any sort of prolonged interaction with him hate his guts, even people that otherwise wouldn't have a reason to? Also he is pretty close to his father apparently and his father is absolutely batshit insane, I can't imagine him not being a huge, huge liability in something like a presidential campaign. It started by running on the back end of the Tea Party wave. In Texas, no state-wide Tea Party candidates had made it through the system yet so when relatively-moderate Republican Kay Bailey Hutchison, who had held her seat since the early 90s and was mostly liked in Texas (prior to Cruz, Perry, Bush, etc, Texas had been relatively purple, with many Democrats holding office of Governor and Senator (or moderate Republicans). So when he announced he went straight to that group of people, who did not feel represented by Dewhurst (or Perry for that matter). Cruz got endorsements from Palin, Rand Paul, Mike Lee, Rick Santorum, Erick Erickson and Mark Levin. He got into a runoff with Dewhurst which helped build his momentum (honestly, the Dewhurst/Perry machine was less and less popular at that time so I don't blame conservatives from latching on to an honest to God challenger). By winning the runoff he built even more momentum, and trampled over the Democrat, who I honestly cannot even remember anymore. That's how uninteresting that guy was. So Cruz did really good work on getting a coalition together and showing them that there was something worth fighting against. Which is hilarious because he burned a lot of bridges in the last couple of years and I guess thinks he can run the spite playbook again? That worked in Texas, but he's not going against anyone like Dewhurst in the GOP primary or the general election. I get the feeling that he'll be like Newt Gingrich this time around, I can see him winning a couple of early primaries and forcing a bunch of other candidates out but generally pissing off party actors and losing support every time he opens his mouth in front of a national audience.
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Mar 22, 2015 16:14
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Syjefroi posted:That worked in Texas, but he's not going against anyone like Dewhurst in the GOP primary Well, there is Jeb Bush.
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Mar 22, 2015 16:16
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Series DD Funding posted:Except that an after-the-fact recount was done under various hypothetical Gore-wins-the-case scenarios, and Bush still won. Did that count provisional ballots too? I assume there was a reason Bush sued to stop a recount, and it wasn't just because they wanted to save time.
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Mar 22, 2015 16:47
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Three Olives posted:And every single one of them were insane circus side shows that were never seriously going to get the nomination? Santorum and Gingrich won real primaries, they were real contenders because nobody ever has a 100% lock on the nomination and they were the only other contenders in the room. I expect Cruz to be in that seat this time around, ultimately unlikely to prevail but poised to do so if the "insane circus" proves too much for Jeb to finesse and Cruz is far less likely to crumble under the pressure like Bachmann, Cain or Gingrich. Remember this is the party that nominated Wendell Wilkie and Barry Goldwater.
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Mar 22, 2015 16:55
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My big hope is that Cruz will be popular and divisive enough to keep his supporters away from whoever the primary winner turns out to be (Bush I guess?) thus depressing Republican turnout in the general. As far as his citizenship "question" goes, nobody who would otherwise support him is going to be stopped by it. The response is "he's legal," and if pressed on some seeming hypocrisy, "well Obummer already broke that part of the constitution so it doesn't matter now." It's not like the birth certificate fiasco was ever really born of a genuine concern about the definition of "natural born," in the first place.
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Mar 22, 2015 16:59
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Pervis posted:Did that count provisional ballots too? I assume there was a reason Bush sued to stop a recount, and it wasn't just because they wanted to save time. The National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago counted all the (175k+) undercount ballots in Florida after the election was over. Under different scenarios as to which ballots get counted, Gore or Bush wins. Gore wins the more ballots you include, but Bush wins under all scenarios that were being considered at the time.  (Of course that doesn't account for either butterfly ballots transferring a few thousand Gore votes to Buchanan and black voters being denied their right to vote) (And the reason Bush sued to stop a recount wasn't that they knew or thought that the proposed count method by Gore would lead to a Gore win - it's just that if you're ahead, you don't want a recount because you have everything to lose and nothing to gain.) Pinterest Mom fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Mar 22, 2015 |
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Mar 22, 2015 17:03
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DynamicSloth posted:Santorum and Gingrich won real primaries, they were real contenders because nobody ever has a 100% lock on the nomination and they were the only other contenders in the room. I expect Cruz to be in that seat this time around, ultimately unlikely to prevail but poised to do so if the "insane circus" proves too much for Jeb to finesse and Cruz is far less likely to crumble under the pressure like Bachmann, Cain or Gingrich. Remember this is the party that nominated Wendell Wilkie and Barry Goldwater. Cruz is a political animal that is rarely seen. He is a gifted public speaker and he will not come off as a circus clown act or side show barker. He has the Tea Party in his pocket from the start and thats the only group he really gives a poo poo about. Mark Levin will be praising him from day one and he may never, ever say anything that even comes close to pandering to this group but he will already have their support. He is a dangerous person with dangerous ideas and he may come dangerously close to winning the primary. The issue is not going to be support, even though I know Jomentum has said no one who is as despised has him can come close to being nominated, the issue is going to be the money. Who is going to support him monetarily that doesn't already have someone in their pocket. He's not going to get money from big Texas donors or the Kochs, unless he's the last man standing. Adelson may have to be his savior and so far, it appears Adelson doesn't like him, which is good news for all of us.
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Mar 22, 2015 17:17
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Three Olives posted:I pretty much stayed out of it but how did Cruz win Texas anyways? Doesn't basically everyone that has had any sort of prolonged interaction with him hate his guts, even people that otherwise wouldn't have a reason to? Also he is pretty close to his father apparently and his father is absolutely batshit insane, I can't imagine him not being a huge, huge liability in something like a presidential campaign. Cruz's father is insane, but Cruz is just a sociopath. He's knows where he wants to go and who's face he needs to step on to get there. Dude doesn't give a gently caress about anyone, unless they can help him achieve his goals. I've met people around town that knew him in high school and they said he hasn't changed a bit. Everyone hated him then and everyone in the Senate that isn't Mike Lee hates him now. radical meme posted:Who is going to support him monetarily that doesn't already have someone in their pocket. He's not going to get money from big Texas donors or the Kochs, unless he's the last man standing. Adelson may have to be his savior and so far, it appears Adelson doesn't like him, which is good news for all of us. Yeah this is really the only problem facing Cruz (other than electability, of course). He's not enough of a sellout as someone like Walker, so he won't be getting all that Koch money, and I don't see Foster Friess or Adelson backing him until Santorum is out of the picture. Cruz is seen as too much of a risk by the big money, he isn't easy to control like Walker. Sir Tonk fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Mar 22, 2015 |
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Mar 22, 2015 17:22
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Mar 22, 2015 17:34
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Ted Cruz easily has the most punchable face of the possible Republican 2016 candidates
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Mar 22, 2015 17:39
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while that is certainly true. is that real, because it looks like a terrible shoop. Then again it is Time.
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Mar 22, 2015 17:40
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The first time I saw Ted Cruz was at CPAC 2012. As I watched him walk around the stage and talk in that faux-improvisational way he does, my first thought was "oh poo poo, the Tea Party is gonna make this guy a national figure before he even wins his election". Of course, he's only gotten more visible and obnoxious since then.
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Mar 22, 2015 17:42
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pengun101 posted:while that is certainly true. is that real, because it looks like a terrible shoop. Then again it is Time. Positive this is a shop, still funny as gently caress and the cover is accurate, if not authentic.
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Mar 22, 2015 17:44
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Pervis posted:Did that count provisional ballots too? I assume there was a reason Bush sued to stop a recount, and it wasn't just because they wanted to save time. Bush won the initial machine recount that was certified by Katherine Harris. They successfully argued that the hand recount violated the 14th amendment and that 3 USC 5 made the certified results final.
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Mar 22, 2015 17:44
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pengun101 posted:while that is certainly true. is that real, because it looks like a terrible shoop. Then again it is Time. Obvious shoop, no mainstream media publication would ever call out the far right on its insanity like that.
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Mar 22, 2015 17:49
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I wonder if we could see some sort of Santorum/Cruz social conservative Tea Party showdown. At their hearts they are both basically just pure assholes that gain pleasure by stomping on anyone who isn't them, Cruz is obviously much smarter but Santorum I think is driven by a more plainly obvious religious earnestness to be a dickbag while Cruz would personally strangle Jesus for being too much of pinko and stealing the stoplight if he thought he could get away with it and I think that comes off to anyone that has listened to him talk enough.
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Mar 22, 2015 18:03
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Pinterest Mom posted:You can tell Al Gore didn't win the EC by the way he never served as president. You can argue (and I would) that a fair election and count in Florida would have resulted in Florida's electors casting their votes for Gore, but that didn't happen. If people did not want to be wrongly purged from the voting lists, they should not have been born black.The state of Florida can't be responsible for their lifestyle choices. 
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Mar 22, 2015 18:13
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Three Olives posted:I wonder if we could see some sort of Santorum/Cruz social conservative Tea Party showdown. Probably, but throw Carson, Perry, Huckabee, and Jindal into that mix. A frothier version of 2012's Santorum / Perry / Bachmann split that had the evangelicals split their influence and wind up with not much to show for it. Huckabee was supposed to solve that problem and nail down the revival tent early, but I guess he's busy curing cancer and diabetes.
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Mar 22, 2015 18:40
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Mar 22, 2015 19:12
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This is still the best South Park bit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j56IiLqZ9U
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Mar 22, 2015 19:24
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I came running as soon as I heard the news. Ted Cruz is running for President? Finally, I'd been missing the never-ending sideshow of an American Presidential Election. Still can't wait for all the Tea Party types who howled about Obama being born in Kenya suddenly supporting someone who was actually born abroad. That's got to create some insane whiplash.
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Mar 22, 2015 19:30
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Dolash posted:I came running as soon as I heard the news. Ted Cruz is running for President? Finally, I'd been missing the never-ending sideshow of an American Presidential Election. It's going to be a "the only moral X is my X" scenario or arguing that it's totally different this time because Cruz's parents were Americans while Oblammo's weren't. (yes I know that Oblammo's parents were American)
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Mar 22, 2015 19:32
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radical meme posted:Cruz is a political animal that is rarely seen. He is a gifted public speaker and he will not come off as a circus clown act or side show barker. "No, I have not stopped beating my wife."
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Mar 22, 2015 19:37
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ToxicSlurpee posted:It's going to be a "the only moral X is my X" scenario or arguing that it's totally different this time because Cruz's parents were Americans while Oblammo's weren't. They weren't bothered by McCain's birthplace, and you drat well know they would have been if the democrat was born in the Panama Canal Zone.
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Mar 22, 2015 19:46
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OctoberBlues posted:They weren't bothered by McCain's birthplace, and you drat well know they would have been if the democrat was born in the Panama Canal Zone. Weren't McCain's parents military? That's one of those things they'll say is totally different because American soil counts military bases.
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Mar 22, 2015 20:04
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mccain was exempted from birtherism not because of any legal reasons, but because he and his family are Are Troops and therefor above all suspicion cruz, similarly, is one of Are Troops in the War Against Tyranny
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Mar 22, 2015 20:13
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Weren't McCain's parents military? That's one of those things they'll say is totally different because American soil counts military bases. The specific justification doesn't matter, the point is there's no consistency, but if the candidate is on their team there will be justifications, if the candidate is on the other team there will not.
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Mar 22, 2015 20:17
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Obama was born in America to a US citizen mother. McCain was born in an American territory to a US citizen mother. Cruz was born in Canada to a US citizen mother. Will this matter in the primaries? One of Ted's opponents thinks it might. quote:“It’s a problem. It could be a difficult problem, but he admits that he was born in Canada,” Trump told reporters in Iowa on the eve of the first major gathering of 2016 presidential hopefuls. Trump should call on Cruz to release the (long form) essay he was required to write to renounce his Canadian citizenship. The people have a right to know.
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Mar 22, 2015 20:28
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If it's only about where Barack Obama was born, or not born as they insist, then we don't have to question what the real issue is with the GOP.
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Mar 22, 2015 20:28
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Oh wow I forgot that Trump was gearing up to run again. This election is just the gift that keeps on giving, isn't it? Ah yes, I can't wait for Trump and Cruz to start competing to see who can be the most sociopathic and insane.
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Mar 22, 2015 20:43
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Joementum posted:Obama was born in America to a US citizen mother. Please let Donald Trump's next crusade be the exposure of this Canadian sleeper agent.
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Mar 22, 2015 20:52
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"MITT ROMNEY IS GOING TO FIGHT EVANDER HOLYFIELD" http://m.fightland.vice.com/blog/mitt-romney-is-going-to-fight-evander-holyfield Apparently it is for charity.
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Mar 22, 2015 21:15
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Joementum posted:Obama was born in America to a US citizen mother. Pleeease, I want this to happen so badly. I won't ask for anything until 2020, Santa. 
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Mar 22, 2015 21:28
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Oh wow I forgot that Trump was gearing up to run again. This election is just the gift that keeps on giving, isn't it? Ah yes, I can't wait for Trump and Cruz to start competing to see who can be the most sociopathic and insane. He's not going to run. The parasitic tribble that cored out his skull is only interested in money and positive attention.
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Mar 22, 2015 21:46
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