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Arkane
Dec 19, 2006

by R. Guyovich

Phil Moscowitz posted:

bahahahaha AAPL



triple witching today, so lots of late wacky moves

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MrBigglesworth
Mar 26, 2005

Lover of Fuzzy Meatloaf
Eh, because they still send em, not like I can use em.

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The Jax
May 15, 2004

Arkane posted:

I've taken some fairly good-sized positions in a couple of oil servicing companies over the past couple of weeks....HOS and TDW. Got 2000 HOS @ average price of 18.77 and 3000 TDW @ average price of 21.83. I'm above water on HOS and under water on TDW right now.

The story in the oil sector is obviously the plummet in oil prices. And you see with the weekly onshore rig count from Baker Hughes that rigs in the US are just plummeting. A lot of the fringe players as I understand it have a great chance of going belly up. The cost of extracting oil is in some places higher than what you can sell said oil for. There's a supply/demand imbalance right now which could last for some time, especially with oil being stored all over the place. Definitely no guarantee that oil prices increase anytime soon. And I don't pretend to have any earthly clue where oil prices are going.

The offshore story is different than onshore. The cost basis of each new barrel of oil is very low (after a large amount of CapEx to establish a rig in the first place). They're long-term projects. As such, the offshore industry is more stable. Still sensitive to oil prices, but it is less dramatic. The challenge facing offshore at this moment is that you have to be very careful in deciding whether to deploy new rigs. Transocean/RIG just plummeted yesterday based on them scrapping a few rigs and taking a huge write-down.

What Hornbeck (HOS) and Tidewater (TDW) do is service the offshore platforms with a fleet of ships called OSVs (and with Tidewater, they also have tugboats). Both companies have large amounts of assets in the form of these ships (and plenty of accrued debt...building the ships wasn't free). Even with the debt, Tidewater is trading at less than 40% of book value right now, by far the lowest its ever been. Hornbeck is trading at about 50% of book. Both companies assessed their fleets at year-end for write-downs and indicated that they did not need to take write-downs nor are they planning to. I've listened to conference calls and read the 10-Qs and done my due diligence, and I can't find any red flags or reasons why I would think management isn't open and honest. Quite the opposite, both seem very proactive and realistic about oil. Tidewater recently wrote down all of their goodwill from their balance sheet (which is skewing their earnings). Both companies have cold-stacked less profitable ships (to reduce maintenance costs) over the past few months. Salary cuts could be coming. Of note, Hornbeck recently sold ships that are trading in the stock market at 50% of their value for much greater than 100% of their value (although a very unique customer that probably overpaid...the US Navy).

Because offshore is more stable, there is predictable demand for OSVs. And if we look at worst case scenarios of how these companies performed in previous low oil environments, Hornbeck barely lost any money with the offshore FREEZE in the gulf after the BP spill, and Tidewater has been profitable for years (check out links below for HOS, and check out the investor presentation for TDW). Whereas the stock prices right now basically assume that they're going to be losing money for the foreseeable future. It's not a lock that they'll be profitable, though, even with fairly stable OSV demand....because OSV supply could eclipse that demand this year, and it could cause prices to crater. Both Hornbeck and Tidewater have newbuild programs (hundreds of millions in new ships being built), which could exacerbate the problem. The biggest danger in owning these stocks is that the business becomes unprofitable and that the assets decrease markedly in value.

I've tried to give the general outline...there's a couple of worthwhile reads about Hornbeck at these two links, which flesh out the businesses more:

http://www.freenpv.com/?p=457 (from 2 months ago)
http://traviswiedower.com/2015/02/26/hornbeck-offshore-services-hos/ & http://traviswiedower.com/2015/02/27/hornbeck-book-value-update/ (from last month)

While Hornbeck is almost entirely based in the Gulf of Mexico, Tidewater is all over the world. Both companies have investor presentations on their investor relations sites that I suggest you check out.

There's three things I like about this trade:

1. I don't think the stocks can realistically go much lower for any extended period of time (knock on wood). The assets they hold are simply too valuable, and the demand is not going to disappear any time soon.
2. If oil prices go up this summer, these stocks could easily double.
3. If oil prices stay stable, these companies could easily still be profitable.

Conversely, if we're to look at the short thesis of these stocks, I don't see how it makes any sense. You have very limited upside because they are so asset-flush, and you have ludicrous amounts of downside. I think these companies are being shorted/sold off along with the industry, while people don't realize that their earnings are going to less subject to drastic swings. Suffice to say, I think the gigantic drops in both stocks is wrong.

As far as where they are trading right now, I was buying HOS below 19, and it's far above 19 right now, so I've stopped buying that. I'm purely buying TDW right now. Unfortunately neither of these stocks has long-term options (furthest expiry for HOS is September, TDW October) or else I'd probably own a good deal of those.

Would be interested in any thoughts!

edit: should also add, there's been insider buying in both companies over the past few months, and both companies have authorization for share buybacks, which seem all but certain at these valuations.


You should add an offshore drilling company called Seadrill (SDRL) to your list. I was attracted to it for the very same reasons you're interested in TDW and HOS. They've been absolutely rocked this year along with the rest of the oil industry and recently had two major contracts fall through (one due to economic sanctions against Russia)... but at the end of the day, they're waaaaay more stable than their competitors and they have much newer equipment/rigs. Everyone knows if oil dips below 40/barrel it'll crush the bottom end of the production market, but Seadrill isn't bottom end and it isn't going anywhere. They have existing contracts that guarantee a profit for the next two years and recently took major steps to trim the sails (ie, restructured debt, delayed delivery of new equipment orders, and ceased dividend payments to shore up cash reserves). Long story short, the fundamentals are sound and it's not likely to drop much further. Frankly, I can't believe it's as low as it is. I got in at 9.09 last week and it's already improved to 9.83. Granted, it's been fluctuating quite a bit recently, but I'm in it for the long haul and I see a lot of profit potential in the next year or two.

Agronox
Feb 4, 2005
There's still a very real bankruptcy risk with SDRL. All those new rigs were paid for from debt, and they're one of the more levered players in the business.

The Jax
May 15, 2004

Agronox posted:

There's still a very real bankruptcy risk with SDRL. All those new rigs were paid for from debt, and they're one of the more levered players in the business.

The debt is a valid concern, but all the same, they're not going anywhere any time soon.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/3013336-seadrill-unlikely-to-default-on-debt

KnucklePuckMe
Mar 10, 2013
I have 500 shares of a stock that I've been watching for a couple of years waiting for it to reach its historical high levels. It is currently in a good place where I want to sell it and diversify the funds in other investments. The stocks are held by computershare, and their online interface says I can either sell the stocks through a market order or a batch order. Besides a flat 10 dollar difference in the fees, there doesn't seem to be much difference in terms of cost.

I'm wondering which choice will be more safe / cost efficient in getting me my 20k at a good price? What are the pros and cons of batch orders vs market orders?

Thanks!

rizzo1001
Jan 3, 2001

KnucklePuckMe posted:

I have 500 shares of a stock that I've been watching for a couple of years waiting for it to reach its historical high levels. It is currently in a good place where I want to sell it and diversify the funds in other investments. The stocks are held by computershare, and their online interface says I can either sell the stocks through a market order or a batch order. Besides a flat 10 dollar difference in the fees, there doesn't seem to be much difference in terms of cost.

I'm wondering which choice will be more safe / cost efficient in getting me my 20k at a good price? What are the pros and cons of batch orders vs market orders?

Thanks!

I think you should also be given the option to transfer the shares to your broker. Then you can sell and diversify from there as you normally would, without having to wait for a paper check etc.

RichardGamingo
Mar 3, 2014
I know it's dumb to sign my posts, but I can't stop no matter how many times I'm told, because I'm really stupid and I want to make sure that shines through in everything I do and say, forever.

Best Regards,
RG
I'm still long GTATQ CRDS WMIH and ESI. I'm probably going to move out of my equity position on ESI (at a huge loss lol so many options expired useless because I anticipated the financial statements which are delinquent would be released by now). I'll keep buying some far out of the money calls on ESI.

GTATQ rallying. They're about to get DIP financing. I don't like the long term view for equity only because the management is loving bogus...... but I think its going to rally significantly from where its at. DIP financing hasn't hit the mainstream news and it still took a 20% bump up on Friday.

Best Regards,
RG

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Trash Trick
Apr 17, 2014

ANR FOR THE LOVE OF GOD IF yOU DONT BOUNCE...iLL JUST...UGH

Daedalus Esquire
Mar 30, 2008
I have an account with SNL through work. I'll see what info they have tomorrow on ANR. If it's any consolation, broccoli cat may have been right in that it could be the survivor of the industry. When I checked the other day, SNL actually had an OK outlook on it.

Agronox
Feb 4, 2005

RichardGamingo posted:

GTATQ rallying. They're about to get DIP financing. I don't like the long term view for equity only because the management is loving bogus...... but I think its going to rally significantly from where its at. DIP financing hasn't hit the mainstream news and it still took a 20% bump up on Friday.

But the end result will be: equity class wiped out, shares canceled at zero. I guess at this point when you're down 90+% it might be fun gambling, but realize that you're essentially trying to time when it's best to pass a lit stick of dynamite to the next guy.

Mills
Jun 13, 2003

Arkane, any thoughts on the extent to which HOS and TDW have had their offshore revenues effected by a strengthened USD?

Alkaiser
Mar 17, 2009
Hey Arkane, I`m interested in HOS and TDW but I feel that we`re still going to have another shock when Cushing is nearly full, are you betting that we`ve already hit the bottom?

Zerstorung
Jun 27, 2008

a cop posted:

ANR FOR THE LOVE OF GOD IF yOU DONT BOUNCE...iLL JUST...UGH
Didn't it already do that last Wednesday?

Arkane
Dec 19, 2006

by R. Guyovich

Mills posted:

Arkane, any thoughts on the extent to which HOS and TDW have had their offshore revenues effected by a strengthened USD?

I don't remember foreign exchange being a significant boost/barrier to either company. Tidewater could face challenges in Angola with US Dollars (legislation is expected that will force companies to deal in the local currency), and they talked about that in the conference call. They suspect they'll be a grace period for a certain amount of time.

Alkaiser posted:

Hey Arkane, I`m interested in HOS and TDW but I feel that we`re still going to have another shock when Cushing is nearly full, are you betting that we`ve already hit the bottom?

Have no idea where oil is going, but they both service offshore rigs which are not as sensitive to drops in oil prices because the marginal cost of each new barrel is low compared to the upfront cost of establishing the well. Many of them are very large, long-term projects. Tidewater also has a tugboat business with not as much oil exposure. As you can see, the bottom has fallen out of both stocks, and they trade at significant discounts to their equipment and very low multiples given profit potential in an oil rebound.

Mills
Jun 13, 2003

The chart for HOS looks like a mirror for oil and it's bounced on the low a few times but the chart for TDW looks like you're catching a falling knife. I know this may well have nothing to do with the fundamentals (or there is another fundamental aspect to TDW that you've missed, I guess) but on an anecdotal basis I can't remember many trades that ended up winners when I was betting against that price action. It does make me question why TDW keeps getting sold (and at an accelerating pace) despite the fact that oil seems to have bottomed out (at least as far as charts and sentimentality is concerned).

Arkane
Dec 19, 2006

by R. Guyovich

Mills posted:

The chart for HOS looks like a mirror for oil and it's bounced on the low a few times but the chart for TDW looks like you're catching a falling knife. I know this may well have nothing to do with the fundamentals (or there is another fundamental aspect to TDW that you've missed, I guess) but on an anecdotal basis I can't remember many trades that ended up winners when I was betting against that price action. It does make me question why TDW keeps getting sold (and at an accelerating pace) despite the fact that oil seems to have bottomed out (at least as far as charts and sentimentality is concerned).

HOS recently sold ships for above book value, which caused it to bounce up briefly and has insulated it somewhat since those sales will provide an influx of cash.

I assume you mean technicals as opposed to fundamentals? I don't really pay too much attention to that.

Mills
Jun 13, 2003

Yeah technical price action. That's fair; fundamentals obviously have worked out very well for you. I don't like to use technicals as the basis for putting on or exiting a position but I've found them useful for timing. I’m just concerned that oil’s price has stabilised but TDW’s price is still falling.

Just playing devil's advocate!

Gay Horney
Feb 10, 2013

by Reene
I am currently using TradeKing. Essentially I'm a position trader but their transaction fees do seem kind of high. Anywhere else I could look?

Arkane
Dec 19, 2006

by R. Guyovich

Sharzak posted:

I am currently using TradeKing. Essentially I'm a position trader but their transaction fees do seem kind of high. Anywhere else I could look?

Interactive Brokers

Agronox
Feb 4, 2005
TBH if you don't trade frequently and don't need advanced features I'd stick with tradeking. I have accounts both there and at IB but the only real reason I stick with IB is portfolio margin. I'm not doing anything more complicated than multi-leg options orders and TK has a more intuitive platform in my opinion.

fruition
Feb 1, 2014

Arkane posted:

As far as where they are trading right now, I was buying HOS below 19, and it's far above 19 right now, so I've stopped buying that. I'm purely buying TDW right now. Unfortunately neither of these stocks has long-term options (furthest expiry for HOS is September, TDW October) or else I'd probably own a good deal of those.

I pulled the trigger today and nibbled on 1k shares of HOS @18.91.

Thanks for the writeup and sharing your sources. I've been watching HOS since you suggested it and was hoping for a nice -4% day to get in.

Shear Modulus
Jun 9, 2010



Alternatively, Robinhood.

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
Does anyone have any recommended reading or condensed information about the Canadian Tax situation as it pertains to someone who may be curious about dabbling in trading?

jmzero
Jul 24, 2007

quote:

Does anyone have any recommended reading or condensed information about the Canadian Tax situation as it pertains to someone who may be curious about dabbling in trading?

If you're dabbling, one possibility is to do it inside your Tax Free Savings Account (you can hold pretty much whatever you want in your TFSA - including stocks and options - and you won't be taxed on it), assuming you have space there (if you've been an adult for a while, your contribution limit will be ~$35000).

I have my TFSA set up with CIBC (Investor's Edge), and it was super easy to get going with. It's not the cheapest ($6.95/trade), but it's not abusive either. Their web interface is perfectly serviceable, and they don't gouge too hard on US/CDN exchange (watch out for this with other brokers!).

You can also trade within your RRSP; in that case, it'll end up taxed the same way everything else in there is - you'll pay income tax on it when you pull it out.

Or you can trade in a normal account. In this case, your capital gains are taxed at something like half your normal income tax rate - and you'll have to do some of the kind of calculations you'll see from the Americans in this thread for when to count gains and losses, etc (or, your broker will and they'll send you a T5 slip with a couple numbers at the end of the year).

jmzero fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Mar 23, 2015

Baddog
May 12, 2001
Hmm, I see a lot of opportunity for arbitrage in this predictit market, looks kinda tempting. But I guess after you subtract the 5% withdrawal fee (and 10% of your profits), it actually gets kinda slim? And the $850 limit on any one question limits ability to really take advantage. Minus the opportunity cost of having your money locked up for x amount of time. For instance its just not worth it to buy lock "NO"'s at 95+ that will take a year+ to resolve.

semicolonsrock
Aug 26, 2009

chugga chugga chugga

Baddog posted:

Hmm, I see a lot of opportunity for arbitrage in this predictit market, looks kinda tempting. But I guess after you subtract the 5% withdrawal fee (and 10% of your profits), it actually gets kinda slim? And the $850 limit on any one question limits ability to really take advantage. Minus the opportunity cost of having your money locked up for x amount of time. For instance its just not worth it to buy lock "NO"'s at 95+ that will take a year+ to resolve.

Yeah, it seems like you want a question close enough that you can sell your shares at some point.

Baddog
May 12, 2001

semicolonsrock posted:

Yeah, it seems like you want a question close enough that you can sell your shares at some point.

You can still buy "will bibi be prime minister" YES's at 97 cents though, which will resolve in a maximum in 8 weeks. Which is an annual return of 18%. I guess he could stroke out before he gets sworn in....

District Selectman
Jan 22, 2012

by Lowtax
Ah Intrade in 2008 and 538.com, you won me so much money. Actually, so did Baseball Prospectus before Nate Silver left. Thanks Nate Silver, you spergy sperglord

ohgodwhat
Aug 6, 2005

Baddog posted:

You can still buy "will bibi be prime minister" YES's at 97 cents though, which will resolve in a maximum in 8 weeks. Which is an annual return of 18%. I guess he could stroke out before he gets sworn in....

I got some of those at ~60c, and Putin still being in power on Friday for 75c two days prior :smug:

It's pretty silly but I'm not complaining.

Arkane
Dec 19, 2006

by R. Guyovich
If you want a really cheap stock - in a hated sector where everyone is terrified - HOS at 18 is a fantastic buy. You have the added benefit of getting in below the CEO & CFO.

rizzo1001
Jan 3, 2001

Arkane posted:

If you want a really cheap stock - in a hated sector where everyone is terrified - HOS at 18 is a fantastic buy. You have the added benefit of getting in below the CEO & CFO.

I do! Thanks for the heads up!

Mills
Jun 13, 2003

Arkane posted:

If you want a really cheap stock - in a hated sector where everyone is terrified - HOS at 18 is a fantastic buy. You have the added benefit of getting in below the CEO & CFO.

That didn't last long. :)

Arkane
Dec 19, 2006

by R. Guyovich
Yeah, it's very volatile to put it mildly, could easily be back down there tomorrow.

I doubled down today, have 4k shares now, average price of 18.54. Almost got some options matched, but nothing doing yet.

gnarlyhotep
Sep 30, 2008

by Lowtax
Oven Wrangler

RichardGamingo posted:

I'm still long GTATQ CRDS WMIH and ESI. I'm probably going to move out of my equity position on ESI (at a huge loss lol so many options expired useless because I anticipated the financial statements which are delinquent would be released by now). I'll keep buying some far out of the money calls on ESI.

GTATQ rallying. They're about to get DIP financing. I don't like the long term view for equity only because the management is loving bogus...... but I think its going to rally significantly from where its at. DIP financing hasn't hit the mainstream news and it still took a 20% bump up on Friday.

Best Regards,
RG

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

lmao god almighty what a moron

Mills
Jun 13, 2003

gnarlyhotep posted:

lmao god almighty what a moron

Some of us enjoy his posts. :(

MrBigglesworth
Mar 26, 2005

Lover of Fuzzy Meatloaf
Which one of you bastards owns KRFT as of yesterday?

abagofcheetos
Oct 29, 2003

by FactsAreUseless
I want to know who the guy is that bought 10,000 June 67.50 calls for .70 like two weeks ago.

Vatek
Nov 4, 2009

QUACKING PERMABANNED! READ HERE

~SMcD

abagofcheetos posted:

I want to know who the guy is that bought 10,000 June 67.50 calls for .70 like two weeks ago.

I'd like to know the name of the yacht he intends to buy when he cashes that poo poo out.

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MrBigglesworth
Mar 26, 2005

Lover of Fuzzy Meatloaf
So what does that equate to? I have never gotten too deep into options.

Current KRFT is up even more now at 87.60.

Options bought in lots of 100? at .70 per on this, so that would mean $7000 to buy that contract?

Strike price was 67.50 so if they sell that contract now, they get $20.1 profit per share? so $201,000 total - 7000 = $194,000 net?

Or am I way the gently caress off?

MrBigglesworth fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Mar 25, 2015

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