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Vegito's power level doesn't matter because he can beat anyone.
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Mar 23, 2015 20:49
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Stairmaster posted:Vegito's power level doesn't matter because he can beat anyone. Beerus is stronger than the fusions. Movie said so. 
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Mar 23, 2015 20:53
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StrifeHira posted:Beerus is stronger than the fusions. Movie said so. Beerus wouldn't be stronger than Vegito if both Goku and Vegeta achieved SSG before fusing.
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Mar 23, 2015 20:56
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Kurui Reiten posted:I always figure power levels have some weird curve as the numbers go up, to make stronger people look even stronger. Like, 10 is about twice as powerful as 5, but 1,000,000 isn't literally twice as powerful as 500,000. Super Saiyan Goku's 150,000,000 isn't seriously like 300,000 times more powerful than start-of-DBZ's 416 Goku. The numbers are significant jumps, but they get more and more meaningless as you go up. Zenkais don't start giving exponential boosts or something, and Piccolo fusing with Nail or Kami doesn't do that either. They get significant increases, but the individual numbers mean less and less. At the end of DBZ, a capable scouter might read Vegito as like 10e111, and it would be completely pointless to use that as any sort of guide without knowing the curve. I've always kinda thought like that, too. It's why you can deck someone stronger than you and not shatter every bone in your arm.
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Mar 23, 2015 20:56
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Also with Beerus it's God Kai or nothing, Vegeta got mad enough to land some hits on him but he still couldn't scratch him with any energy attacks
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Mar 23, 2015 20:57
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What if they used the Dragonballs to wish for all the saiyan cast to be cloned, then the Goku and Vegetas could Potara fuse with themselves, the rest of saiyans could power them up to SSG then they could use the fusion dance to become SSG Double-Gogeta
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Mar 23, 2015 21:01
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Kild posted:Revival of F ends with Frieza starting his own company to run the Briefs out of business. The next movie is Adult Trunks and Frieza battling for market share. Dragon Ball Z: The Wolf of West City.
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Mar 23, 2015 21:06
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New Leaf posted:I realize it's just a show. But how is he possibly that strong, and so few other people on the planet can attain that level of power? Seemingly nobody before this crew has attained this level of power on Earth, Roshi has been manipulating ki for dozens and dozens of years. Why wasn't he stronger? Or the Crane school, for that matter? They trained like mad too. Roshi is old as balls and probably doesn't really excercise any muscles besides the ones in his dominant forearm.
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Mar 23, 2015 21:06
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A Steampunk Gent posted:What if they used the Dragonballs to wish for all the saiyan cast to be cloned, then the Goku and Vegetas could Potara fuse with themselves, the rest of saiyans could power them up to SSG then they could use the fusion dance to become SSG Double-Gogeta This will be a thing in the next Dragonball Game. If it's not, it should be.
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Mar 23, 2015 21:14
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Leroy Dennui posted:Roshi is old as balls and probably doesn't really excercise any muscles besides the ones in his dominant forearm. Uh, what? He watches exercise videos daily and works out along with them.
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Mar 23, 2015 21:14
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Prison Warden posted:Goku annihilates an entire amry single handedly when he's like 15 and Yamucha is stronger than that by the end of Dragonball, for sure. He annihilated it after the first tenkaichi. That took place in 750. Goku is born in 737. So yeah, he's around 12-13 at the time. Unless you take dragon ball minus into account because apparently, in that, Goku was born in 734. If he were born in 734 though, he's 15-16 by the time he fights in the first tenkaichi, the shrimpiest 18-19 year old fighting king piccolo and go from short dude to super tall at age 21-22
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Mar 23, 2015 21:15
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I'm not sure I like Dragon Ball Minus much. Toriyama's version of Bardock's story is just kind of...not that interesting.
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Mar 23, 2015 21:19
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Raxivace posted:I'm not sure I like Dragon Ball Minus much. Toriyama's version of Bardock's story is just kind of...not that interesting. Then forget about it, it's not like Toriyama didn't 5 minutes after he wrote it
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Mar 23, 2015 21:26
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TheKingofSprings posted:Then forget about it, it's not like Toriyama didn't 5 minutes after he wrote it Haha, true. I'm just curious about what other people thought about it.
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Mar 23, 2015 21:27
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It works a little better when you consider that it leads directly into Jaco.
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Mar 23, 2015 21:32
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Raxivace posted:I'm not sure I like Dragon Ball Minus much. Toriyama's version of Bardock's story is just kind of...not that interesting. I don't really get why he did it. It didn't gently caress anything up, but it didn't really jive with what we know about the Saiyans as a race and it made Goku's origin story even more like Superman's than it already was.
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Mar 23, 2015 21:33
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Raxivace posted:Haha, true. I'm just curious about what other people thought about it. Goku's mom's skirt armor was dumb.
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Mar 23, 2015 21:33
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Exercu posted:He annihilated it after the first tenkaichi. That took place in 750. Goku is born in 737. So yeah, he's around 12-13 at the time. Unless you take dragon ball minus into account because apparently, in that, Goku was born in 734. If he were born in 734 though, he's 15-16 by the time he fights in the first tenkaichi, the shrimpiest 18-19 year old fighting king piccolo and go from short dude to super tall at age 21-22 The fact that Goku didn't really know his own age was realized when he got tall after training with Kami. It was always kind of fuzzy until later sources gave him an actual birth year. Not to mention that Sayans probably age much differently than humans. "Teen" Gohan from the Cell games was physically 11 years old (10 years old +1 from the time chamber) yet was much taller than Goku at the same age. (Goku was 12 when he met Bulma if the 737 year of birth was correct, and would have been 15 if the 734 date is correct.)
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Mar 23, 2015 21:34
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My last experience with a DBZ was on the Super Famicom with Hyper Dimension and Super Butoden 1, 2, and 3...any reason I should pick up DB Xenoverse? It'll be played via PC if that matters.
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Mar 23, 2015 21:37
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Speaking of Bardock, wasn't he originally not canon and Toriyama decided to make him so, or was he always a creation of his?
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Mar 23, 2015 21:37
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Justin_Brett posted:Speaking of Bardock, wasn't he originally not canon and Toriyama decided to make him so, or was he always a creation of his? He was always canon but the exact specifics were made up by the anime special. I think Toriyama just basically went "yep, he has that design" and not much else.
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Mar 23, 2015 21:39
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Eonwe posted:King Kai didn't seem to teach piccolo poo poo tho, for reals
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Mar 23, 2015 21:40
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Monaghan posted:Goku's mom's skirt armor was dumb. I forgot about that. What was up with that? How would that even work? Justin_Brett posted:Speaking of Bardock, wasn't he originally not canon and Toriyama decided to make him so, or was he always a creation of his? He made the original design for Bardock then decided to make it canon for DB Minus. Bardock is a beloved character -- at least based on how much he shows up in expanded material -- so I guess he didn't want to replace him.
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Mar 23, 2015 21:40
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ThermoPhysical posted:My last experience with a DBZ was on the Super Famicom with Hyper Dimension and Super Butoden 1, 2, and 3...any reason I should pick up DB Xenoverse? It'll be played via PC if that matters. It's loving amazing. Get a controller.
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Mar 23, 2015 21:44
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Some footage of the new 3DS fighter. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eH-0yOA834 Very pretty
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Mar 23, 2015 21:44
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Powerlevels are meaningless because both parties can always pull more strength out of their rear end. Giving anyone a single number at any point means pretty much nothing.
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Mar 23, 2015 21:44
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lol at arguing if power levels mean anything who cares there will literally always be plot armor when there needs to be and someone is going to go super saiyan legendary god broly goku fusion and squeak out a win against god of destruction beerus frieza fusion who was absorbed by cell who was further absorbed by buu
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Mar 23, 2015 21:50
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What I've always wondered about DBZ is "why now"? Why in all the earth's history is it only in "the present" that you suddenly have all these insanely strong humans (Krillin, Tien, Yamcha, et al). Their strength appears to be unprecedented in human history and all of them live in the same age. The real answer is power creep, but it's interesting that it's never really remarked upon. Oh yeah, I'm in the General Blue episodes of my DragonBall rewatching spree and while I find a lot of the recycled animation  , I'm getting a huge kick out of what a great romp it all is. I'm especially liking Bulma's role here. I wouldn't go so far as to say Dragonball is some kind of feminist story, but Bulma is actually a weirdly good example of a well-written female character.First, one of my favorite things about her is that she's a female character with an active (as opposed to passive) sexuality. In way too many works of fiction, the female character is a passive recipient of sexual advances which, upon receipt, they can either accept or decline - and a good female character is chaste until the male hero doesn't want her to be. Alternatively, the female character's attraction to the hero/villain is used to explain why they bother helping that character, with annoying variants such as the hero's girlfriend who secretly helps the villain because she believes (almost always incorrectly) that it will help her man, and the seductress who is just pretending to like the hero in order to achieve some non-sexy goal (though she often falls in love with the hero because he's just so sexy). Bulma is not out to help some man. She is out to get a man. And not to exchange meaningful glances either - there's no way to misread the way she licks General Blue's arm. Homegirl wants to get laid, and not by any random jackass, but a grade A stud. Interestingly, none of the main characters (typical author mouthpieces) are enticed or repelled by her sexuality. The only person who is disgusted is General Blue, but that seems less a top-down criticism of female sexual aggression and more a way to make Blue read to the audience as gay as a daffodil. Bulma is frequently the butt of the show's humor, basically getting karmic retribution for her bad behavior. However, the show avoids several pitfalls that other works of fiction that feature a similar concept fall into. What helps the most is that Bulma is not the only female character on the show. Way too many comics and cartoons have ONE female character who essentially represents womankind. When that character "behaves badly" and she gets punished by fate, it reads as the author saying "take that, women!" It's paternalistic and pretty gross. But Bulma is clearly not the representative of all womankind in the world of Dragonball. In fact, it seems pretty clear that she's a rather unique person within the world itself. What also helps is that Bulma is not the only person getting their karmic just desserts - Oolong, Yamcha, Roshi and Krillin are equally "punished" for their behavior. Bulma's flaws? She's bratty, selfish, and arrogant. But she isn't written to be bratty/selfish/arrogant without any intrinsic need to behave thus just so that we can see a character acting that way - her behavior stems from having an actual personality and not from "lol women amirite?" She clearly isn't greedy - and while that might seem obvious, given that she's the richest girl in the world, if she was just being written to be a stock obnoxious whiner character, she wouldn't bother to grab a diamond from the pirate treasure with the intention of giving it away. She doesn't team up with Goku out of the goodness of her heart (actually, it looks like he doesn't really glom on to the fact that their goals in this story arc are incompatible) but when the chips are down she proves she'll risk her life to try to save his, and she even shows she's willing to cede a dragonball to Gen. Blue to try to save Goku's life. She might have an exaggerated view of her own intelligence, but she's certainly not delusional about being a prodigy - she invented the dragon radar, after all, and at the tender age of 16 can pilot several types of aircraft. I think what I like best about Bulma in Dragonball, though, plays a bit more into the context of Dragonball as a variant on "the hero's journey". When Goku isn't around, people have their own lives that they find rich and fulfilling. Goku is not the chosen hero of legend - in fact, if he saves the world it's only because the baddie made the mistake of making things personal. Goku isn't even the strongest on Earth or the best martial artist. (Later we find out that his birth family isn't even anything special. Making Goku come from common stock was a nice touch.) To put it simply, Bulma's character and motivations help show that the world does not revolve around Goku - and I think that's kind of unique for a Shonen hero. I think that's unique for people in general. And of course, once the world of Dragonball actually DOES revolve around Goku, non punchmans supporting characters like Bulma become much less interesting.
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Mar 23, 2015 21:59
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New Leaf posted:It's loving amazing. Get a controller. Yeah, I'll be using my 360 controller. Does it have a decent story or is it just mostly fighting? I played the demo on PS4 in GameStop a few hours ago ...is the camera really that bad?
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Mar 23, 2015 22:04
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Aurain posted:Some footage of the new 3DS fighter. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eH-0yOA834 The big character splash screen reminded me how I found out recently that every major villain has pink in their design (King Piccolo and Freeza have pink arms, Cell has pink eyes, Vegeta had a pink scouter, I don't have to elaborate for Buu...) I find this amusing for some reason.
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Mar 23, 2015 22:10
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Xibanya posted:(stuff about Bulma) Bulma's definitely one of the most developed side characters in the series, and she's developed enough to not totally fade out later which I like a lot. Look at Tien, for instance: he has a solid character arc in Dragonball, but in Z he becomes "the ballsy bald guy with the extra eye". She never quite gets the Chi-Chi treatment of just kind of being an accessory to Goku's character, either. She spent so much time being front and center, I guess Toriyama couldn't help but remember her more clearly than anyone other than Goku.
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Mar 23, 2015 22:14
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ThermoPhysical posted:Yeah, I'll be using my 360 controller. Does it have a decent story or is it just mostly fighting? I played the demo on PS4 in GameStop a few hours ago ...is the camera really that bad? The camera sucks, yeah, but you get used to it. The story mode is mostly fighting, of course, but they have some interesting vignettes that boil down to "what would it look like if Bad Guy was stronger," as well as who's doing all the Time Crime that you're Time Policing. e: gently caress, I thought someone else posted.
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Mar 23, 2015 22:21
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StrifeHira posted:Beerus is stronger than the fusions. Movie said so. And what did Beerus do that Gotenks buu couldn't? Yeah, checkmate Ancient-Egyptians.
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Mar 23, 2015 22:24
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Stairmaster posted:And what did Beerus do that Gotenks buu couldn't? Spank Gotenks' rear end?
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Mar 23, 2015 22:30
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Gotenks could beat Super Buu, IIRC. The fact Beerus no sold him in an instant is a testament to his power.
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Mar 23, 2015 22:31
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:Bulma's definitely one of the most developed side characters in the series, and she's developed enough to not totally fade out later which I like a lot. Look at Tien, for instance: he has a solid character arc in Dragonball, but in Z he becomes "the ballsy bald guy with the extra eye". She never quite gets the Chi-Chi treatment of just kind of being an accessory to Goku's character, either. She spent so much time being front and center, I guess Toriyama couldn't help but remember her more clearly than anyone other than Goku. I agree Tien has a solid character arc in the sense that he grows and develops as a person, but his character doesn't really have any non-Goku motivations. He exists as a rival to Goku and he spends the rest of Dragonball hoping to beat Goku in a rematch. Once it's clear he's never going to be close to Goku in power, he just exists to be only human who doesn't come off as goofy or foolish. ("I'm the only serious character on this show. That's the joke." DBZA nailed that one.)
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Mar 23, 2015 22:32
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I don't know, I give Tien a hand for trying at least.
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Mar 23, 2015 22:34
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Raxivace posted:I don't know, I give Tien a hand for trying at least. Kind of like how Tien gave Nappa a hand in their fight?
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Mar 23, 2015 22:36
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Xibanya posted:"I'm the only serious character on this show. That's the joke." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q12Q0Z5e6no
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Mar 23, 2015 22:36
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On the topic of characters becoming flatter, I think it's pretty lame that Piccolo's characterization and development pretty much stopped with his death in the Saiyan Arc. Also, there's never any real transition from villain to hero, I feel. Maybe I'm just overthinking it, but I feel like Piccolo acknowledging how he felt happy being around Gohan seemed like it should've been the start of a gradual transition from a villain who sticks around to protect Gohan to a heroic character. Instead, after that point, Piccolo is pretty much just fighting the villains and the fact that he used to be one is never really addressed. He just sort of becomes a good guy. It's not like with Vegeta who clearly sticks around with the good guys for a challenge (and likely to kill Goku), but gradually begins to change. What is the song at the start of this video? I've been trying to find that on Youtube for a while. Blueberry Pancakes fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Mar 23, 2015 |
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Mar 23, 2015 22:41
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