Linux: is the machine running fedora or just the user

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > Linux: is the machine running fedora or just the user

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ahmeni: May 1, 2005; It's one continuous form where hardware and software function in perfect unison, creating a new generation of iPhone that's better by any measure.; Grimey Drawer

Broken Machine posted:

This is an amusing post, as if you read the handbook today at a number of points it'll say 'oh btw, if you're interested in running a desktop, you might be interested in PC-BSD which automatically takes care of all this for you if you don't feel like compulsively janitoring your system'. It's run by core members of FreeBSD. When you run uname, it'll show FreeBSD 10.1 release. You can transparently switch between the two just by changing the repository and a few config files. They are in effect the same base system, with PC-BSD giving you a few minor additions to make it nicer for desktop use, and somewhat hardened security, like having up fail2ban and pf preconfigured for you. Also it has some really nice graphical applications for managing things like the ZFS volume manager, that thing is really neat.

Tell us more about your bike shed though. I don't get why people running other systems rip on BSD over poo poo that's not even accurate, I mean why do you even care are you secretly afraid you might be missing out I don't care what system do you run does it work for you that's great, how's the diet are you getting enough vegetables, they say you should eat all the colors of the rainbow you know

lol at this entire post

# ? Mar 24, 2015 13:12

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# ? May 28, 2024 19:07

Celexi: Nov 25, 2006; Slava Ukraini!

2020 the year of (PC-)BSD on the desktop

# ? Mar 24, 2015 13:18

Suspicious Dish: Sep 24, 2011; 2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro; Fun Shoe

Celexi posted:

well they could of done it like chrome which you can disable it (right click top bar > use system borders )

That's exactly what they did, but a bunch of people still complained.

# ? Mar 24, 2015 13:25

SYSV Fanfic: Sep 9, 2003; by Pragmatica

So gnome development is driven by who has the most puppet accounts on reddit and twitter?

# ? Mar 24, 2015 14:35

Celexi: Nov 25, 2006; Slava Ukraini!

well this has nothing to do with gnome but firefox/mozilla

# ? Mar 24, 2015 14:35

ZShakespeare: Jul 20, 2003; The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose!

lol if u listen to ur users.

# ? Mar 24, 2015 15:51

SYSV Fanfic: Sep 9, 2003; by Pragmatica

Celexi posted:

well this has nothing to do with gnome but firefox/mozilla

Yeah, I re-read and you are right. Still major lols that /r/linux has a say in anything.

# ? Mar 24, 2015 16:56

SYSV Fanfic: Sep 9, 2003; by Pragmatica

ZShakespeare posted:

lol if u listen to ur users.

I listen to the silent majority of the overwhelming minority of people that use linux as a desktop OS>

# ? Mar 24, 2015 16:56

eschaton: Mar 7, 2007; Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

SYSV Fanfic posted:

I listen to the silent majority of the overwhelming minority of people that use linux as a desktop OS>

I bet they sound a lot like nbsd

# ? Mar 24, 2015 18:05

Soricidus: Oct 21, 2010; freedom-hating statist shill

serious question, why do people put so much effort into changing desktop linux when only a handful of people will ever use it and they never have anything nice to say about change?

# ? Mar 24, 2015 19:54

pram: Jun 10, 2001

because maybe they believe in a little thing called freedom??

# ? Mar 24, 2015 19:55

pram: Jun 10, 2001

jk its autism

# ? Mar 24, 2015 19:56

SYSV Fanfic: Sep 9, 2003; by Pragmatica

Soricidus posted:

serious question, why do people put so much effort into changing desktop linux when only a handful of people will ever use it and they never have anything nice to say about change?

Ever hear of battered developer syndrome?

# ? Mar 24, 2015 20:00

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE: Aug 1, 2004; whoa, what just happened here?; College Slice

eschaton posted:

I bet they sound a lot like nbsd

Nbsd doesn't give a poo poo so long as the ui is consistent and gets out of his way using XEmacs or whatever

That's actually a fairly reasonable expectation

# ? Mar 24, 2015 20:12

nosl: Jan 17, 2015; CHIM, bitch!

pram posted:

jk its autism

A literally true answer

# ? Mar 24, 2015 20:16

Sapozhnik: Jan 2, 2005; Nap Ghost

I appreciate what the GNOME devs do and I use the result of their efforts every single day.

I'll definitely buy Matthias Clasen a drink or two if I ever run into him irl

# ? Mar 24, 2015 20:17

nosl: Jan 17, 2015; CHIM, bitch!

Mr Dog posted:

I appreciate what the GNOME devs do and I use the result of their efforts every single day.

I'll definitely buy Matthias Clasen a drink or two if I ever run into him irl

I appreciate what GTK2 and GTK3 devs did/do, but I don't use the gnome desktop. A window manager is plenty for me and it feels wonderful to not be guided by the direction of an organization, at least entirely.

# ? Mar 24, 2015 20:24

dont skimp on the shrimp: Apr 23, 2008

pram posted:

jk its autism

# ? Mar 24, 2015 21:11

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE: Aug 1, 2004; whoa, what just happened here?; College Slice

pram posted:

jk its autism

# ? Mar 25, 2015 05:35

Sapozhnik: Jan 2, 2005; Nap Ghost

upgraded to GNOME 3.16

Wayland support for HiDPI is still somehow even worse than under X11, and libinput routinely rejects motion from the touchpad if there's even a hint of strong pressure or multiple fingers nearby.

Oh well, maybe next year will be the Year Of Wayland On The Linux Desktop!

Also the Shell Toolkit switching from black boxes with white edges to grey boxes with black edges is a real step back in aesthetics imo but whatever. At least X11-based HiDPI actually seems to be flawless now, with the exception of WebkitGTK views in anything other than Epiphany continuing to be blurry crap bout at least the scaling looks correct

Is there any way to override GDK to at least not blur poo poo when it does a 2x scale-up? it looks like crap for UI elements.

Sapozhnik fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Mar 26, 2015

# ? Mar 26, 2015 17:15

Sapozhnik: Jan 2, 2005; Nap Ghost

I'm not really going to complain because if I had anything approaching free time then I'd have started contributing patches long ago.

# ? Mar 26, 2015 17:21

pram: Jun 10, 2001

your os sounds like a pos

# ? Mar 26, 2015 17:33

Soldier of Fortran: May 2, 2009

Mr Dog posted:

Is there any way to override GDK to at least not blur poo poo when it does a 2x scale-up? it looks like crap for UI elements.

I've never understood why (it seems like) every hidpi system uses linear interpolation when scaling up by integer multiples. i'd much rather something look crisp but blocky rather than blurry.

thankfully i use the world's most advanced operating system so eveyrthing but legacy poo poo supports hidpi natively, but still.

# ? Mar 26, 2015 17:40

Suspicious Dish: Sep 24, 2011; 2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro; Fun Shoe

Mr Dog posted:

upgraded to GNOME 3.16

Wayland support for HiDPI is still somehow even worse than under X11, and libinput routinely rejects motion from the touchpad if there's even a hint of strong pressure or multiple fingers nearby.

I don't have any HiDPI device to test with. Wayland requires you get a HiDPI model correct and that everything is in logical pixels, while under X11, HiDPI is a giant pile of hacks we've managed to get mostly working OK.

Wayland has a fundamentally cleaner design that lets us do cool & interesting things, but it's going to take time to refactor mutter to be able to support that.

See my back and forth with Owen on https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=744934

What's happening to you with libinput? It seems fine to me on my machine.

Mr Dog posted:

Also the Shell Toolkit switching from black boxes with white edges to grey boxes with black edges is a real step back in aesthetics imo but whatever. At least X11-based HiDPI actually seems to be flawless now, with the exception of WebkitGTK views in anything other than Epiphany continuing to be blurry crap bout at least the scaling looks correct

Yeah, we're aware of Webkit sucking. Fixed in a later WebkitGTK+ release that didn't make 3.16, unfortunately

Mr Dog posted:

Is there any way to override GDK to at least not blur poo poo when it does a 2x scale-up? it looks like crap for UI elements.

What is blurry? There shouldn't be any 2x scale-up, all assets should be native.

# ? Mar 26, 2015 17:54

Sapozhnik: Jan 2, 2005; Nap Ghost

Suspicious Dish posted:

I don't have any HiDPI device to test with. Wayland requires you get a HiDPI model correct and that everything is in logical pixels, while under X11, HiDPI is a giant pile of hacks we've managed to get mostly working OK.

Wayland has a fundamentally cleaner design that lets us do cool & interesting things, but it's going to take time to refactor mutter to be able to support that.

See my back and forth with Owen on https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=744934

yeah I've read a whole bunch of Wayland specs and documentation, it's pretty sw8 but unfortunately Mutter's support is still bad.

The combination of Mutter and Gtk+ is getting confused between logical and physical pixels all over the place.

Start a gnome-terminal, the entire goddamn window is blurry, including decorations and shadows. Is this still using loving Xwayland because of gnome-terminal-server?

Move your mouse over the gnome-terminal or indeed any app and the mouse cursor is half as big as it should be.

Start gnome-control-center (a Clutter app? But it still uses Gtk+ for decoration, idgi) and it's crisp and looks fine apart from the aforementioned mouse cursor issue. I think.

Start Epiphany up, it's also crisp and looks fine but its transients (e.g. the completion dropdown) are half as far down the screen as they should be. Strangely the horizontal position and width are both fine so I don't even know what the gently caress, my guess is it's calculating the position of that transient based on the font metrics of the text box it's attached to (as opposed to just the size of the text box? idk) and those font metrics are being calculated using physical pixels instead of logical.

Pull up the Activities overlay, all the window previews are physically twice as big as G-S seems to want them to be, so they overlap and run off the right and bottom of the screen

It is a goddamn mess and at this rate even 3.18 isn't going to work right with Wayland either.

quote:

What's happening to you with libinput? It seems fine to me on my machine.

Uh, my multitouch trackpad doesn't really work. If you're very careful to lightly use one finger then the mouse moves, otherwise it doesn't. I have a TrackPoint that works fine at all times despite this, for a while I thought I was getting constant GPU lockups or something but no it's the multitouch touchpad. I don't use the trackpoint normally because I prefer the MT touchpad.

quote:

What is blurry? There shouldn't be any 2x scale-up, all assets should be native.

WebKit views are not HiDPI capable I guess so they get rendered and then scaled up twofold. Also Clutter scales gnome-terminal (for whatever reason) and I guess Xwayland apps twofold. Which is fine, but that scaling shouldn't blur the image in the process because this looks awful. Just scale everything up to use sharp 2x2 pixels instead. Won't look ideal but it's a drat sight better than blurring the image, didn't anybody apply even the slightest bit of thought to this? If you're using OpenGL then it's literally just a matter of using GL_NEAREST instead of GL_LINEAR for the texture (or whatever Cogl wraps this up to be)

# ? Mar 26, 2015 18:35

Sapozhnik: Jan 2, 2005; Nap Ghost

Right now I'm just happy because I found the "turn off all the loving animations" option in gnome-tweak-tool and god drat my desktop is actually super responsive now

I get the theory behind it (that your eye tracks the object while it's moving instead of having to hunt around for its new location) but in practice it's not an issue at all. UI tweens are like transparent consoles: just because all of a sudden you can, doesn't mean you should.

Please do not ever take that option away thx

# ? Mar 26, 2015 18:42

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

firefox is the only linux browser with good high dpi support

# ? Mar 26, 2015 18:51

Suspicious Dish: Sep 24, 2011; 2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro; Fun Shoe

Mr Dog posted:

Start gnome-control-center (a Clutter app? But it still uses Gtk+ for decoration, idgi) and it's crisp and looks fine apart from the aforementioned mouse cursor issue. I think.

g-c-c uses Clutter so it can display a webcam view, and because X11 is amazing, the fastest way to display a YUV stream from a camera is to use OpenGL. So it uses ClutterGst to show a webcam view in one of the settings panels.

It is otherwise a GTK+ application in its entirety.

# ? Mar 26, 2015 19:03