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Demiurge4 posted:Anthony being her father is also important because, as a minor, he holds actual authority over her. The school hasn't been very controlling of her thus far but Anthony could just say "no more forest visits" and that's the end of that. With the court she's had room to negotiate and we may very well see him come between her and her role as medium, it may even be that which brought him back into her life.
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Mar 26, 2015 20:36
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But when have we not had gimmick halls of residence? Have to give Tom some :madprops: for creating a work that has provoked so much serious discussion about difficult topics. The maturity shown in the writing of a comic about kids is truly impressive
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Mar 26, 2015 20:39
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Anthony Carver is a giant dick and there is not one shred of evidence that he has done a single nice thing for anyone since Surma died other than Donny's vague hope that he phoned Annie for a reason. This is a terrible way to reintroduce yourself to your daughter after two years, especially the bit where you tell her that your physical wellbeing (losing a loving hand) is none of her business, and frankly it doesn't matter if he has some nice motivations about saving her life or whatever, he is still being a turdblossom. If you abandon your daughter for some super secret mission right after her mother dies and don't come back for multiple years, then when you return you are nice to her and probably say "sorry". NOT "fuckin ell ducky you look like a right slapper wash that shite orf" "o-ok - omg ur hand are you ok" "PISS OFF YOU PRYING STRUMPET" EDIT: to clarify, there is nothing he can do or reveal to make me look past how he's treating Annie and go "oh well that was okay in retrospect". Not saying "I can never see him a a good person" but this will always have been a lovely way to behave. Freudian fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Mar 26, 2015 |
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Mar 26, 2015 20:43
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Have we ever seen anyone's grandparents in this comic? or at least have them mentioned? I can't recall now but Kat spent some time with hers on vacation maybe? Well Antimony couldn't have met Surma's mom for obvious reasons, but I wonder about Surma's dad, or Anthony's parents. Were they ultraspergs like their son, or were they baffled by him?
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Mar 26, 2015 20:44
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Captain Oblivious posted:Fangz and FriedChicken are the rational ones on this actually. People will do a lot to overlook the lovely behavior of people who are part of the tribe, whatever form that tribe might take. Fangz literally drew a parallel between Anthony and Adolf Hitler.
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Mar 26, 2015 20:46
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YF-23 posted:Fangz literally drew a parallel between Anthony and Adolf Hitler. A) Anthony is trying to "cure" Antimony of being a fire elemental. Uncomfortably eugenic! B) Much like noted Nazi Dr Strangelove, he has issues with his hands. C) Anthony and Renard did not get along. Hitler killed his dog. At some point Anthony will demand Zimmy (Danzig) from Gamma (Poland), only to be stopped by Vriska (Vriska).
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Mar 26, 2015 20:50
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D) Both of them did nothing wrong
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Mar 26, 2015 20:51
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BONES CURE DAUGHTERS
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Mar 26, 2015 20:53
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YF-23 posted:Fangz literally drew a parallel between Anthony and Adolf Hitler. In that they both got married. My point was that even evil people like Hitler got married. Jesus Christ.
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Mar 26, 2015 21:00
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It is a myeloma analogy.
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Mar 26, 2015 21:01
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Fangz posted:In that they both got married. My point was that even evil people like Hitler got married. Jesus Christ. Yes, it was a "know who else got married?  " post made unironically.
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Mar 26, 2015 21:04
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There is no possible scenario that makes what Anthony has done not abusive. None. YF's ridiculous "but what if this" lines of thought do not make what he did not abusive, they give him reasons for his abusive behavior. People are (for the most part) not saying that Anthony's been doing this for shits and giggles, just that it doesn't matter whatever reason he has that made him see fit to do what he's done, he is still an abusive father who has horribly hosed up Annie's psyche. Which, unlike what some people have said, is actually in the themes of the comic. We've already seen Diego, and Reynardine, and others do terrible, unjustifiable things in the name of love. At this point the question isn't really if that's the case with Anthony, it's a matter of learning the specifics of why he's done it all, and the full measure of what he's done; I have a feeling we're in for some more unpleasant revelations before this is over.
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Mar 26, 2015 21:14
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Blackheart posted:Hahahahaha so it -was- "no, gently caress you, dad holy poo poo, gently caress off that was entirely uncalled for
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Mar 26, 2015 21:20
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" all along
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I am not gonna respond to YF's insane troll logic any more. I can only hope he doesn't apply those sentiments in real life.
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Mar 26, 2015 21:22
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YF-23 posted:Yes, it was a "know who else got married? No it wasn't you weirdo. I honestly can't tell if this is an intentional act or you really are some kind of autistic robot that can't understand human relationships.
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Mar 26, 2015 21:24
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Roland Jones posted:There is no possible scenario that makes what Anthony has done not abusive. None. YF's ridiculous "but what if this" lines of thought do not make what he did not abusive, they give him reasons for his abusive behavior. People are (for the most part) not saying that Anthony's been doing this for shits and giggles, just that it doesn't matter whatever reason he has that made him see fit to do what he's done, he is still an abusive father who has horribly hosed up Annie's psyche. Which, unlike what some people have said, is actually in the themes of the comic. We've already seen Diego, and Reynardine, and others do terrible, unjustifiable things in the name of love. At this point the question isn't really if that's the case with Anthony, it's a matter of learning the specifics of why he's done it all, and the full measure of what he's done; I have a feeling we're in for some more unpleasant revelations before this is over. There's a fair amount of people that say Anthony is being purposefully spiteful towards Antimony because he hates her or perceives her as an obstacle to a selfish goal like reviving Surma.
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Mar 26, 2015 21:26
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Roland Jones posted:There is no possible scenario that makes what Anthony has done not abusive. None. YF's ridiculous "but what if this" lines of thought do not make what he did not abusive, they give him reasons for his abusive behavior. People are (for the most part) not saying that Anthony's been doing this for shits and giggles, just that it doesn't matter whatever reason he has that made him see fit to do what he's done, he is still an abusive father who has horribly hosed up Annie's psyche. Which, unlike what some people have said, is actually in the themes of the comic. We've already seen Diego, and Reynardine, and others do terrible, unjustifiable things in the name of love. At this point the question isn't really if that's the case with Anthony, it's a matter of learning the specifics of why he's done it all, and the full measure of what he's done; I have a feeling we're in for some more unpleasant revelations before this is over. I just went back to the psychopomp story under the tree, and even way back then, in the hospital, Annie was brow beaten into not calling him "dad" but "da---father". At like 4 or whatever.
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Mar 26, 2015 21:27
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But have you guys considered that he is maybe doing a bad thing here? I just thought that this might be a new idea to suggest in this conversation. Edit: bad, that is, in the sense of not being nice, or deserving of censure.
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Mar 26, 2015 21:34
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Cat Mattress posted:The only people we've seen talking about Tony Tons in the comic are Jimmy Jims (strong dislike), Donny Dons (like with caveat), Jonesy Jones (cold dislike), Renny Rens (strong dislike), and Surmy Surms (like with caveat). In addition, Katty Kats hates him. Having forgotten it, where did Jones talk about Bad Dad 2015? Also chalk me up as hoping this isn't leading to some cliche redemption thing or him being misunderstood. Sometimes poo poo parents are just poo poo parents the end.
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Mar 26, 2015 21:35
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ProfessorCirno posted:Having forgotten it, where did Jones talk about Bad Dad 2015? Honestly leaving it as "nope he was as cartoonishly evil as he was presented" would be even worse. It's being hammered in so much that it's obvious there is some sort of twist. e: the jones moment was linked a page or two ago, it was more or less after Antimony met her I think but it was also Jones messing with her. Bongo Bill posted:But have you guys considered that he is maybe doing a bad thing here? I just thought that this might be a new idea to suggest in this conversation. Hmm... go on...
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Mar 26, 2015 21:38
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I'm going with "there's way more complexity to this person than we've seen, but none of it will truly excuse his harmful actions, except in the eyes of his daughter, until she eventually gets fed up with him somehow". I'm putting my money on the space that says that.
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Mar 26, 2015 21:43
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I also think Antimony will end up knowing her father a lot more, and probably viewing him quite differently but she will not stop loving him like many suggest.
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Mar 26, 2015 21:46
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Yeah, even if Annie has a falling out with her father, she'll still love him I'm sure. But hopefully she'll develop a healthier understanding or distance of some kind, so that he can't destroy her with a single phone call like what happened in Microsat 5.
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Mar 26, 2015 21:48
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The Mentalizer posted:No it wasn't you weirdo. I honestly can't tell if this is an intentional act or you really are some kind of autistic robot that can't understand human relationships. 
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Mar 26, 2015 22:03
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Did Surma's friends ever visit her in the hospital while she was dying? From Kat's mom's reaction it seems almost like she might not have known Surma was dead until she received news that Annie would be coming to Gunnerkrigg. I just remembered that in Microsat 5 they sent up scalpel blades. I wonder if Anthony cut his own hand open as some part of the ritual that was trying to restrain the fire elemental?
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Mar 26, 2015 22:12
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But did Tony somehow change his stance on ignoring etheric/magical stuff? Remember that the whole bone arm thing is just how Zimmy saw it through her creep-o-vison, Anthony might have been working something entirely technological, not anything ritualistic.
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Mar 26, 2015 22:15
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YF-23 posted:Yes, it was a "know who else got married? He's also right, unless you are now arguing that Hitler did not get married. He was literally just saying that they were both married individual, pointing out that individuals from all walks of life get married, and it isn't a major determinant of moral standings. Trying to apply Godwin's law when the comparisons are appropriate is, in of itself, pretty fallacious and unfortunate in of itself. The Red Queen posted:Did Surma's friends ever visit her in the hospital while she was dying? From Kat's mom's reaction it seems almost like she might not have known Surma was dead until she received news that Annie would be coming to Gunnerkrigg. I don't think anybody really know where Anthony and Surma had gone!
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Mar 26, 2015 22:19
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Antony's a doctor, if he wanted scalpels he could get them. Most likely he needed the scalpels on the satellite and that's not something he could do himself. Unless he didn't need to have them sent at all and he wanted to involve Annie in the whole process for emotional reasons.Dammerung posted:He's also right, unless you are now arguing that Hitler did not get married. He was literally just saying that they were both married individual, pointing out that individuals from all walks of life get married, and it isn't a major determinant of moral standings. Trying to apply Godwin's law when the comparisons are appropriate is, in of itself, pretty fallacious and unfortunate in of itself. Yes, of course Hitler got married. He got married to Eva Braun, and I am pretty sure that he was friends with a lot of people like Himmler and Goebbels. It's a nonsense point to make unless it was meant to reflect badly less on Anthony and more on his friends and on Surma. The point that the old boys' club was friends with Anthony is supposed to reflect well on Anthony because those are characters we trust and who we know are good people, not fuckin' nazis. YF-23 fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Mar 26, 2015 |
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Mar 26, 2015 22:20
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It's difficult to think of any scenario where Anthony isn't deeply abusive, except the one where Antimony is allergic to parental love (and also patient consent) and must be kept away from them at all costs or explode.
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Mar 26, 2015 23:54
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I suppose in her case that could be literal
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Mar 27, 2015 00:01
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Anthony is obviously abusive, but I'm interested in whether he's trying to be. My running assumption is that he genuinely does care about Annie, but can't show it. And in fact the only ways he's able to reach out to her end up causing her more pain than if he hadn't tried in the first place. A hedgehog's dilemma. On the other hand, we do know that he does open up to people. He seemed to have a pretty normal friendship with Donald behind closed doors. It would make sense for him to have been the same with Surma, seeing as they managed to conceive a child and all, though we don't know anything about their relationship. So why can't he open himself up to Annie? Or is it that he simply won't? Of Tony's old gang, I think Anja is the only one who hasn't expressed an opinion on him, directly or not. Donald stood up for him to Annie (and was his best friend generally), Jimmy never got along with him (even more so once he married Surma and she consequently died), Brinnie wanted to date him, Surma actually did. Jones expresses no opinion as ever. It's hard to say how well Reynard knew him, if they ever spoke personally at all, though he also has the jealousy-over-Surma thing. Either way, I'd like to see what Anja thinks.
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Mar 27, 2015 00:01
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Tenebrais posted:Of Tony's old gang, I think Anja is the only one who hasn't expressed an opinion on him, directly or not. Donald stood up for him to Annie (and was his best friend generally), Jimmy never got along with him (even more so once he married Surma and she consequently died), Brinnie wanted to date him, Surma actually did. Jones expresses no opinion as ever. It's hard to say how well Reynard knew him, if they ever spoke personally at all, though he also has the jealousy-over-Surma thing. Bam. EDIT: Ok, well re-reading it she seems to be just stating the facts.
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Mar 27, 2015 00:06
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life_source posted:Bam. Cold hard fact: Anthony's an rear end in a top hat.
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Mar 27, 2015 00:09
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It's interesting that Donald's version of Anthony was "aggressively kept up a public facade of emotionlessness that he was unable to drop, except in private." How does that compare to the present-day Anthony, who is "aggressively and publicly cruel, ??? in private"?
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Mar 27, 2015 00:36
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Cat Mattress posted:The only people we've seen talking about Tony Tons in the comic are ... Jonesy Jones (cold dislike).... It's important to note that Jones doesn't like or dislike Anthony, or most anybody at all - she doesn't feel emotions the way you or I do.
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Mar 27, 2015 00:39
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Pththya-lyi posted:It's important to note that Jones doesn't like or dislike Anthony, or most anybody at all - she doesn't feel emotions the way you or I do. Yeah, I don't believe her. 
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Mar 27, 2015 00:43
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Faux Mulder posted:Yeah, I don't believe her. I don't either: notice I didn't say that she was completely unemotional, or that she had feelings for nobody. The fact that she attaches herself to somebody once a century proves that she is capable of feeling emotions towards people. I'm just saying that her emotions are incredibly muted compared to those of normal humans.
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Mar 27, 2015 00:47
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I still ascribe to the theory that she was formed with standard human emotions but spending 4.5 billion years utterly alone has sent her a bit funny.
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Mar 27, 2015 01:02
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Pththya-lyi posted:I don't either: notice I didn't say that she was completely unemotional, or that she had feelings for nobody. The fact that she attaches herself to somebody once a century proves that she is capable of feeling emotions towards people. I'm just saying that her emotions are incredibly muted compared to those of normal humans. Yeah, if she really had no emotions why would she bother spending so much time socializing with humans? She clearly enjoys companionship on some level, it's just that she isn't as passionate as most people are and she's self-conscious about it. Space Cadet Omoly fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Mar 27, 2015 |
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Mar 27, 2015 01:11
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She clearly has intention. That's not the same thing as emotion.
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Mar 27, 2015 01:24
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