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Bucnasti posted:That's what I expect, it will get challenged and overturned, by the time Gen Con has to make a decision the law will already be gone. The governor gets to pander to his base and the only people who actually lose out are the Indy taxpayers who have to cover the massive court costs, but of course that will be forgotten by the time he needs to run again. The exact same thing has played out in other states for other stupid issues over and over. I hope it's overturned, by after the SCOTUS Hobby Lobby decision, don't be so sure.
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Mar 27, 2015 03:46
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Bucnasti posted:That's what I expect, it will get challenged and overturned, by the time Gen Con has to make a decision the law will already be gone. The governor gets to pander to his base and the only people who actually lose out are the Indy taxpayers who have to cover the massive court costs, but of course that will be forgotten by the time he needs to run again. The exact same thing has played out in other states for other stupid issues over and over. While this may be the case, other cities would be foolish not to take notice. $250 million in revenue over five years for a mere five weekends is nothing to scoff at. The fact that Mike Pence was so quick to write that off to pander to a base does not bode well for his tenure. This is before calculating any other hypothetical costs that such legislation would incur, like the loss of migrants, the loss of tourists, the loss of business (Salesforce is an already-measurable cost), and other negative externalities. I'm sure this is going to affect a lot of people's decisions about where they decide to go to college in the future, for instance, both in-state and out-of-state. All I'm saying is, if I were a mayor of a city in a state that could brag about more progressive laws right now, I would be calling Gen Con's phone until I got through. Probably the biggest obstacle in overturning the law is the fact that Indiana's legislature is very much conservative and the supreme and appellate judges are appointed by the Governor - and said office has been relatively conservative for the past 10 years (with the first Voter ID law in the country being passed under Governor Pence's predecessor). I'm hopeful that this all blows over, but somewhat doubtful that they'll come to their senses by 2021.
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Mar 27, 2015 18:06
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Ugh. I've already seen one gamer on Facebook who was disappointed by Gen Con for not immediately pulling out of Indy.quote:SHOOOOCKING. quote:The short version: This was all a calculated PR move for GenCon. Praising them for taking a stand was incredibly naive. In five years people will have forgotten about this and GenCon will be free to stay in Indy.
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Mar 27, 2015 18:32
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The GenCon Twitter account posted last night looking for convention and visitors bureaus who want to be part of their RFP process. I don't know if that's customary 5 years out from the end of a contract but it certainly seems to me they're exploring their options. clockworkjoe posted:Ugh. I've already seen one gamer on Facebook who was disappointed by Gen Con for not immediately pulling out of Indy. Yeah I've had someone call me a coward for not canceling my trip. I'm sure the moral high ground would make up for the couple hundred dollars I'd be out if I bailed at this point, and that my refusal to go would make the governor immediately change his stance.
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Mar 27, 2015 18:41
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Honestly, I think it will have a minimal impact on the con this year. The people living in Indianapolis know by now that GenCon = $$$ and in general, decent people - many people on this thread have talked about how GenCon is one of, if not the most, the more polite and well-behaved conventions. I think people are taking cheap shots at GenCon when they get angry about them not pulling out immediately. GenCon is not a solitary business - it is a huge concentration of businesses that are all relying on the convention as part of sales and marketing cycles. On top of that, they're contractually obligated to be there until 2020 and unless businesses in Indianapolis are refusing to serve staff/exhibitors, I don't think they'll have good grounds for breaking the contract. As a reminder, I am not a legal expert. I did not go to law school. I cannot provide legal advice. Take what I said with a grain of salt especially considering that I cannot read the contract.
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Mar 27, 2015 19:44
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head58 posted:Yeah I've had someone call me a coward for not canceling my trip. I'm sure the moral high ground would make up for the couple hundred dollars I'd be out if I bailed at this point, and that my refusal to go would make the governor immediately change his stance. You should tell this person they're a loving idiot because they need the reminder.
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Mar 27, 2015 19:55
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clockworkjoe posted:Ugh. I've already seen one gamer on Facebook who was disappointed by Gen Con for not immediately pulling out of Indy. That's nearly a word for word quote from one of my friends posts, and then somebody responded that Gen Con should spare no expense to get out of the contract, find a new venue immediately and relocate all the attendees if they were really serious about this issue.  People don't understand the scope of something like this. head58 posted:The GenCon Twitter account posted last night looking for convention and visitors bureaus who want to be part of their RFP process. I don't know if that's customary 5 years out from the end of a contract but it certainly seems to me they're exploring their options. Yeah they usually start discussing a new contract as soon as the current one starts, which is usually 5 years, these things take a ton of time, from what I understand the last process started in 2010 and they signed the contract in 2012. It just looks like this time around they're being more aggressive about shopping around. As far as timing goes this is about the best time for Gen Con to be applying pressure.
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Mar 27, 2015 19:58
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Bucnasti posted:That's nearly a word for word quote from one of my friends posts, and then somebody responded that Gen Con should spare no expense to get out of the contract, find a new venue immediately and relocate all the attendees if they were really serious about this issue. This is absolutely correct. At the moment, exhibitors have space, people are creating events, hotels are reserved, and plans are being more or less set in stone. If that person wants to pay for breaking the contract (which is probably to the order of many, many millions of dollars especially if the contact includes a clause about lost revenue for the city), pay to relocate all of our hotel rooms (for 50,000+ people), pay for the new accommodations plus the penalties for trying to reserve space in convention centers that are all booked solid for the year, etc. etc. etc., then they should totally move the convention somewhere else this year! I mean, I don't even have a complete understanding of the scope but it's already pretty clear from just that that GenCon is an enormous operation that you can't just pick up and move. Maybe Gary Con can do that, but not GenCon.
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Mar 27, 2015 20:52
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head58 posted:The GenCon Twitter account posted last night looking for convention and visitors bureaus who want to be part of their RFP process. I don't know if that's customary 5 years out from the end of a contract but it certainly seems to me they're exploring their options. It's not like any Indianapolis businesses are actually going to discriminate against any queer conference goers during Gencon. It would be commercial suicide. It might even be actual suicide, depending on how rowdy the protest got. This year's conference is a done deal, and according to the Gencon CEO many (most?) of the Indy business community, the people who are actually making money from the Gencon crowd, are opposed to the legislation anyway. Better to go, be aware and supportive of our queer brothers and sisters, and be ready to drop the dice and go picket the everloving poo poo out of any business stupid enough to actually refuse service to anyone under this new law. That's my thinking, anyway. If the law stays, and Gencon stays in Indy past 2020, time to rethink. But I don't think it will come to that -- either the law will be shot down by the courts or Gencon will nope out of there. I do think a pride march or other formalized show of opposition from the gamer community would be a nice event, though. I would like to see that happen.
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Mar 27, 2015 21:05
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The problem is that while Gen Con might not be able to change their plans, their guests can and will, due to potential PR backlash. And the more that defect, the more awkward it is to go.
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Mar 27, 2015 21:08
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Cardinal Ximenez posted:The problem is that while Gen Con might not be able to change their plans, their guests can and will, due to potential PR backlash. And the more that defect, the more awkward it is to go. Do you mean businesses, or celebs? Celeb guests have never really been Gencon's thing...I'm not sure that anyone would notice.
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Mar 27, 2015 21:15
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saint gerald posted:Do you mean businesses, or celebs? Celeb guests have never really been Gencon's thing...I'm not sure that anyone would notice. No, attendees. The consumer, as it were. Folks like you and me.
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Mar 27, 2015 21:36
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Lord Frisk posted:No, attendees. The consumer, as it were. Folks like you and me. Oh, I see. Yeah, we'll just have to see how that plays out. I room with a bunch of gay folks, and if they decided to stay away I likely will too. I don't think they will, however.
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Mar 27, 2015 23:16
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I believe in the long term this won't have any real impact on Gen Con attendees. Likely the competition for 2021-2025 hosts will be stronger, and Indy might have to offer a sweeter deal to keep the show, but really in the end I don't think there is a better suited location. The real long term impact is that Gen Con was one of several companies that have publicly stated they will take their business elsewhere because of this type of legislation. That not only puts pressure on Indiana, but on any other backwards facing state that considers this type of move in the future.
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Mar 27, 2015 23:31
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Cardinal Ximenez posted:The problem is that while Gen Con might not be able to change their plans, their guests can and will, due to potential PR backlash. And the more that defect, the more awkward it is to go. Gencon gets 50k+ attendance. The amount of people boycotting Gencon because of this law will be a fraction of a percent, and they'd be misguided anyway; punishing businesses because of the state's retard governor does nothing.
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Mar 27, 2015 23:44
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Is the traditional game community as poo poo as the videogame one? Are people going to be threatening Gencon or the Indiana Government with rape and murder?
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Mar 27, 2015 23:53
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Len posted:Is the traditional game community as poo poo as the videogame one? Are people going to be threatening Gencon or the Indiana Government with rape and murder? Nah. The always angry fraction of the traditional game community is more passive aggressive and in general less technically aware than the comparable video game community fraction. See this month's chat thread and the meltdowns about Cards Against Humanity. Morally outraged trad gamers are more likely to make angry posts and display "take their ball and go home" behavior rather than doxx and swat people they don't like.
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Mar 28, 2015 01:41
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You just made me think about how someone is absolutely going to try swatting a political figure at some point. Also there is no perfect thing for Gen-Con to do here. It would not surprise me if they would functionally self-destruct if they tried to break their contract, and oddly I do not think losing our convention will teach Mike Pence a lesson. But I bet the law will be gone by 2017 or Gen-Con will move in 2021. I wonder if any political action groups are going to be smart enough to solicit donations nearby? I would be flush with cash and looking for justice! Edit: Importing Clockworkjoe because these things are also true clockworkjoe posted:A Gen Con boycott accomplishes nothing. Salesforce, a multi billion dollar already canceled expansion plans as a result of this law. They have a larger economic impact than Gen Con ever could. Destroying Gen Con is not going to change their minds. These are the kind of republicans that thrive on martyrdom and conflict and this just feeds their persecution complex. Support legal challenges to the law and donate to politicians that will run against Mike Pence et all in the next election cycle. Support Indy businesses that oppose the law. Dr. Quarex fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Mar 28, 2015 |
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Mar 28, 2015 04:02
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Something to also understand is that the majority of the politicians that voted for this are for the areas that are NOT Indianapolis. Indianapolis, from what I am seeing, largely thinks this is a horrible piece of legislation. While some businesses in the area might not be fans of the gays, they know that to actively discriminate against them. What I feel is going to happen is the law will get tossed in the courts. Pence gets a win with the crazy base and gets a "those drat liberals are holding us back, but we will keep fighting the good fight" speaking point. In the meantime the city and the Indianapolis Chamber of Commerce are going to have to kiss a bunch of rear end and spend a poo poo load of money to keep things here until the law gets tossed. Edit: the city-county coucil is already trying to fight it. http://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/indianapolis-city-county-council-to-hear-anti-rfra-resolution-monday
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Mar 28, 2015 06:49
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I was at Gary Con this past weekend, which though not Gen Con certainly got me into heightened excitement for the start of Con season. While there I had the chance to play a D&D game with the owner of Gen Con, Peter Adkison so of course there was some Gen Con talk. He is probably more excited for Gen Con 2015 than even Quarex is.
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Mar 30, 2015 16:10
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Look at you, Nesbit37, all hobnobbing with gaming royalty and all. That is pretty great that Peter Adkison is an even bigger Gen-Con fanboy than I am. But I mean, for him to have been into it enough to buy it in the first place sort of indicated that. Also the newest update in THE GEN-CON SAGA is that the planned expansion into the Lucas Oil Stadium and other nearby hotels is officially indefinitely on hold awaiting the fallout of the law. So they even managed to find something tangible to do to be like "hey, yep, we can take money away from you ALREADY;" more power to them. Even though I was looking forward to seeing what the hell we needed the stadium for. Regardless, I gotta get this other post written already
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Mar 31, 2015 00:36
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Quarex posted:Even though I was looking forward to seeing what the hell we needed the stadium for. True Dungeon 3.0.
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Mar 31, 2015 02:43
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Deathlove posted:True Dungeon 3.0. Now with the low entry fee of $75 a ticket!
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Mar 31, 2015 02:47
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Deathlove posted:True Dungeon 3.0. Honestly they should host a giant gay gamer pride parade in the stadium. Just gay up the whole stadium. Months later, they'll be picking glitter and pink d20s out of the seats.
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Mar 31, 2015 02:59
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The mayor of Indianapolis just issued an executive order protecting LGBT rights. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/30/greg-ballard_n_6972928.html
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Mar 31, 2015 04:17
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Well, that solves the Actual Gen-Con Practical issue, which clearly is still for the best even if it means the fundamental issue is still lingering. But somehow I doubt "the biggest city is safe again" is going to be enough to get Indiana a free pass. Because I want to get back on track, I am going to begin my process of quoting the most delightful posts from the official forums (not about this issue--I am definitely scared to get to that part of the forum in my chronological march) This is one of the final posts in a thread discussing what the best places to eat in Indianapolis during Gen-Con are: One of my favorite people from there to quote posted:For me i had planned on using some coupons i got for steak and shake for the convention, but screwed up and forgot them. Luckily i had 2 left over from Origins that were still valid at subway. First was for a 2$ six inch, the other a buck off any footlong.
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Mar 31, 2015 22:39
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I feel so bad for that oerson. I remember those days, eating nothing but the pop tarts you found in the bottom of your bag from last year's gen con... I have to say my favorite chill out me time moments there now are heading to a bar (preferably the ram), getting some oddly named goblin flesh burger and having a couple beers by myself before heading back to the convention center.
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Mar 31, 2015 22:46
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Everyone should experience the joy of eating nothing but a loaf of bread and maybe some peanut butter and sleeping under a sink for the weekend.
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Mar 31, 2015 23:09
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The last year I went to a con with him my friends little brother brought ten cans of ravioli. That was all he ate the entire time. He had the money to buy food he just didn't want to spend the money. My earliest cons were the "best" for food. I lived in the dorms at college and had almost $600 left in food money at the end of a semester so I turned it into a subway gift card. For like three years at Origins I never had to worry about food. It wasn't delicious but not having to budget for it was amazing. I even bought one of those $70 fancy foam swords with Subway once.
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Mar 31, 2015 23:23
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Quarex posted:This is one of the final posts in a thread discussing what the best places to eat in Indianapolis during Gen-Con are: Hobocon is a hell of a thing. The wife and I ubered out to R Bistro last year on recommendation from this thread, I think. It was super-good. Deathlove fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Apr 1, 2015 |
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Mar 31, 2015 23:59
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We kill the gently caress out of The Ram and Harry & Izzy's (the more casual steakhouse right next to St. Elmo's that shares a bunch of the menu) every year with my group.
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Apr 1, 2015 00:59
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Countblanc posted:Everyone should experience the joy of eating nothing but a loaf of bread and maybe some peanut butter and sleeping under a sink for the weekend. I slept under a desk last year does that count? It was in a hotel room I guess.
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Apr 1, 2015 02:48
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There are actually some decent restaurants in downtown Indy, especially that Indian place like 10 blocks away from the con center. I had dinner there a few times with the Arc Dream crew and Kenneth Hite. Good food and good conversation.
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Apr 1, 2015 02:49
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Was this the gaming thread where I hypothesized that Wal-Mart was run by smart enough people to not just accept the stupid-rear end Arkansas Covert Gay Bashing bill? Well, in any case, I was pretty stoked to see this:Even Wal-Mart can see the animals fleeing the burning forest posted:But the (Arkansas) bill already faces a significant corporate backlash, including from Doug McMillon, the chief executive of Walmart, the state’s largest corporation, who said Tuesday afternoon that Mr. Hutchinson should veto it. Anyway, Hobocon. For some reason this is one of my favorite Gen-Con subtopics, possibly because it calls forth a bizarre sort of nostalgia for me, in the sense that I have never lived under a sink and eaten other people's garbage in order to attend a convention, but I sort of wish I had to once. Not enough to do it, but ALMOST. It is why I slept on the floor without a blanket or pillow the one time I went to a convention with overstuffed rooms, because there is something wrong with me Is it somehow intimately tied to the "ur-myth" of gaming conventions? Do I assume my legitimacy as a True Gamer is questionable until I have suffered for my fun? Or do I secretly like eating garbage? I am glad to hear some of you have seemingly fond memories of vaguely roughing-it-at-Gen-Con scenarios. Edit: Though Len, what sword vendor did you find that took Subway gift cards
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Apr 1, 2015 17:32
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Quarex posted:Was this the gaming thread where I hypothesized that Wal-Mart was run by smart enough people to not just accept the stupid-rear end Arkansas Covert Gay Bashing bill? Well, in any case, I was pretty stoked to see this: I don't remember the vendor in particular and it took some haggling. I ended up with one of the "seconds" where the foam was "wrong" in exchange for getting the entire booth food.
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Apr 1, 2015 17:39
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If any of you want to experience the Hobocon without actually doing it just watch the movie: http://www.nobleknight.com/ProductDetailSearch.asp_Q_ProductID_E_2147410268_A_InventoryID_E_2147657400 (note I have not actually seen this and it is probably terrible)
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Apr 1, 2015 17:57
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I missed out on the high school trips some people I knew took to Acen, but I did attend the first PAX East and get a hobo experience in. The friend I went with had a buddy in Providence who offered his couches, but after the first night, we decided to crash on another acquaintance's hotel room floor rather than take the train to just come back in the morning. It was so cold in there I used a bathroom towel as a blanket. And I felt super gross the morning after.  So I am more than happy to hear these stories, and then go to my king bed in the Omni for the con itself.
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Apr 1, 2015 18:30
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Len posted:I don't remember the vendor in particular and it took some haggling. I ended up with one of the "seconds" where the foam was "wrong" in exchange for getting the entire booth food. nesbit37 posted:If any of you want to experience the Hobocon without actually doing it just watch the movie: #174 "Monkeybot Mayhem" by Kenzer & Co. To be fair, I actually am kind of interested in watching this. Oh god I tried to find it and something went wrong This Video posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ap078qqTJaA We should move this thread to the IMDB Hobocon message board Oh my god I have an IMDB account from 1999? I have to post with this thing RIGHT NOW oh god dammit you have to AUTHENTICATE and the text message is not even sending. Welp, my dreams
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Apr 1, 2015 23:34
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Quarex posted:I honestly thought you were kidding. But it just keeps getting better. I can't find a picture from when I got it and it was still new looking. But I'll dig it out of storage and get a picture tomorrow. It baked in the back window of my car for a summer and has some mild fire damage from drunken shenanigans. But I really did buy a fancy foam larping sword using barter.
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Apr 2, 2015 01:27
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Grrr I lost my whole stupid posting-stuff-from-the-official-forums post. Apparently hibernating this laptop makes it log me out of the Forums? Cool! But really, it is not entirely a loss, as I can still post the single best thing I have found on my search of the forums from the end of the last Gen-Con to the beginning of 2015:  whymikepencedidit.jpg
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Apr 2, 2015 01:57
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