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Yeah, NAFTA was a colossally bad deal for workers throughout the western hemisphere and strongly contributed to the race to the bottom that's been going on the last 30 years. It's one of the worst things the Democrats did in the 90s.
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Mar 27, 2015 19:24
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Oracle posted:Uh, that was Clinton and the Democrat's fault, dude. I'm not saying it wasn't, but it definitely effected manufacturing based rust belt economies far more adversely than tech heavy states. You had a lot of really proud blue collar people suddenly out of work as they literally saw their plants being packed up overnight and sent to Mexico. This happened to my father and a lot of my friends parents. That kind of slap to the face ingrains a deep seated hatred and bitterness in a lot of people that can never be overcome. American politics is very much a Team Sport. It's us versus them, and the other team hosed us over once and we'll be damned if we ever vote for them again, even if our current team is potentially loving us over even more now than the other team ever did.
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Mar 27, 2015 19:30
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Third Way dems are absolutely as culpable (if not moreso) as Republicans for the gutting of the american middle class via outsourcing and expropriation, but the GoP's ability to exploit this is somewhat limited by the fact that their platform is to double down on all that stuff. I wonder if the Republicans would benefit from forming an economic protectionism wing (limited in national influence but useful in rabble-rousing) that would essentially be a reversion to dixiecrat form
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Mar 27, 2015 19:33
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Huge_Midget posted:I'm not saying it wasn't, but it definitely effected manufacturing based rust belt economies far more adversely than tech heavy states. You had a lot of really proud blue collar people suddenly out of work as they literally saw their plants being packed up overnight and sent to Mexico. This happened to my father and a lot of my friends parents. That kind of slap to the face ingrains a deep seated hatred and bitterness in a lot of people that can never be overcome. American politics is very much a Team Sport. It's us versus them, and the other team hosed us over once and we'll be damned if we ever vote for them again, even if our current team is potentially loving us over even more now than the other team ever did.
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Mar 27, 2015 19:36
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Also, the complete demonization of unions has done more to kill any hope of a Democratic comeback in this state than probably anything else. Everyone knows someone that is a UAW employee that makes $50 an hour installing windshield wipers on an assembly line and hears all kinds of horror stories about how you can't change a lightbulb without 7 teamsters present and their union reps. The combination of jealousy over people that managed to retain their unionized manufacturing jobs post-NAFTA plus the right-to-work and at-will employment bullshit that has been pushed through pretty much driven the last nail in the coffin of organized labor ever returning to this state. You can be fired for no reason at all and if you did somehow manage to secretly organize a union they can just replace you with scabs.
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Mar 27, 2015 19:40
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Oracle posted:The way you worded it made it sound like Clinton just happened to be in the room when it happened as opposed to one of the cheerleaders. Stop putting words in my mouth. I'm simply relaying my experiences having lived here for 34 years. I'm not saying the Democrats are blameless in any way, I'm just saying that the Republicans have capitalized on it and have pretty much guaranteed a Republican majority for the foreseeable future due to bitterness and resent. Both parties are the different sides of the same poo poo sandwich that we are saddled with in this two party system. But being a pragmatist I'd rather support the party that isn't actively loving me over and enacting regressive policies that would be more appropriate in 1915 than 2015.
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Mar 27, 2015 19:45
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Any chance Cruz goes indie once he gets rolled over by an establishment GOP candidate? The hilarity that would ensue would be magnificent. I never get what I want though, so he'll get the VP slot - unless his ego won't let that happen (ohpleaseohpleaseohplease).
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Mar 27, 2015 19:51
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VP Paul Ryan - The man with the mind for numbers VP Ted Cruz - The man who is mind numbing
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Mar 27, 2015 20:11
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a shameful boehner posted:It's one of the worst things the Democrats did in the 90s. DADT is also pretty bad from a modern point of view, but its hush-hush acceptance of gays as pod-people was a progressive victory at the time...
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Mar 27, 2015 20:27
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FilthyImp posted:I'd like to think it's tied for first with Clinton's "Workfare" welfare reforms, which are argued to have helped win his reelection. Reminder that the original campaign plank was full gays in the military. But the conservative dems and republicans refused to agree, so DADT was the compromise.
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Mar 27, 2015 20:35
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oldswitcheroo posted:Hank Hill approves. My dad says butane's a bastard gas.
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Mar 27, 2015 20:35
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Intel&Sebastian posted:VP Paul Ryan - The man with the mind for numbers So good with numbers, he doesn't even need to show his work!
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Mar 27, 2015 20:37
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Look Sir Droids posted:Why doesn't Evan Bayh run for governor? I know he hates the Senate, but it seems like being governor would remove most of the reasons he hated the Senate. He loves the Senate. He's a loving lobbyist.
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Mar 27, 2015 20:42
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PupsOfWar posted:Third Way dems are absolutely as culpable (if not moreso) as Republicans for the gutting of the american middle class via outsourcing and expropriation, but the GoP's ability to exploit this is somewhat limited by the fact that their platform is to double down on all that stuff. Economic protectionism and racism are natural allies, so probably.
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Mar 27, 2015 20:53
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Ginger Beer Belly posted:I think you are partly making my point for me. I am postulating that if she wasn't married to Bill Clinton and otherwise politically connected, she is less likely to be a possible Democratic nominee. I don't deny that ambition is necessary for Jeb Bush and Hillary Clinton to be in the running for Presidential Candidates right now, what I'm saying is that if the selection process for each candidate was truly independent and meritocratic, it's really unlikely that it would pick two people that closely related to prior selections. In other words, the selection process is not meritocratic, and is instead cronyism. I don't think this is fair to Hillary Clinton. She is independently smart and ambitious and it's not hard to imagine a world where instead of marrying Bill she stays in Washington and continues rising in politics. Yeah, she ran for Senate as First Lady with no elected experience, but if she had spent the preceding 25 years building her career in Washington instead of being First Lady of Arkansas and then First Lady, it's not hard to imagine she'd have ended up in the Senate in 2001 anyhow.
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Mar 27, 2015 20:58
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Nintendo Kid posted:Reminder that the original campaign plank was full gays in the military. But the conservative dems and republicans refused to agree, so DADT was the compromise. DADT: Gays can serve in the military but must violate one of the core tenets of US military service: integrity. DADT was so dumb.
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Mar 27, 2015 21:03
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mlmp08 posted:DADT: Gays can serve in the military but must violate one of the core tenets of US military service: integrity. The opposing proposal was "reaffirm firing all gays and investigating them, ensuring they got a dishonorable discharge which is basically a felony". Even people who got fired under DADT at least got to have an honorable discharge.
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Mar 27, 2015 21:15
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code:
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Mar 27, 2015 21:16
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lol not like me, I'm proudly working to get the actual people who put us in Iraq back in the executive 
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Mar 27, 2015 21:27
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Nintendo Kid posted:The opposing proposal was "reaffirm firing all gays and investigating them, ensuring they got a dishonorable discharge which is basically a felony". Even people who got fired under DADT at least got to have an honorable discharge. Yeah, lesser of two evils but still dumb.
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Mar 27, 2015 21:31
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a shameful boehner posted:Yeah, NAFTA was a colossally bad deal for workers throughout the western hemisphere and strongly contributed to the race to the bottom that's been going on the last 30 years. It's one of the worst things the Democrats did in the 90s. Do you have a link to further reading on this?
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Mar 27, 2015 21:49
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a shameful boehner posted:Yeah, NAFTA was a colossally bad deal for workers throughout the western hemisphere and strongly contributed to the race to the bottom that's been going on the last 30 years. It's one of the worst things the Democrats did in the 90s. Between NAFTA and the repeal of Glass-Steagall, the 90's put into motion a number of things that have had a large effect on where we are now.
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Mar 27, 2015 22:11
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Spun Dog posted:It's easy to forget almost anything about Evan Bayh. Which is weird since is father was Birch Bayh: 
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Mar 27, 2015 22:25
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Nintendo Kid posted:Yes but the original guy was whining about who gets to be President not who gets to be a random dude with some leadership in a legislature. So the comparison needs to be made between what you need to do to be US President versus what it takes to become Prime Minister or President in a parliamentary system where the President is a separate head of state role from PM's head of government. Fair enough
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Mar 27, 2015 22:51
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dorkasaurus_rex posted:Do you have a link to further reading on this? Here's one. Effectively, when NAFTA removed tariffs, it let businesses compete more freely across the national borders. A lot of blue-collar manufacturing work moved into Mexico, where labor was cheaper because wages are lower and employers don't have to worry as much about worker safety or health. Things got worse because the heavily-subsidized and controlled US farm industry basically ate Mexican agriculture alive, thus driving more Mexicans into the factories and accelerating the process. There were a lot of jobs created in the States, but they tended to be white-collar jobs created by the flood of US investment going into Mexico and Canada. The US workers who lost their blue-collar jobs when factories relocated weren't qualified for the new jobs, and the states/feds didn't offer retraining or help. NAFTA wasn't the huge disaster that critics predicted, but neither did it actually achieve its stated goals. Insofar as it was a success, it benefited the rich and upper-classes. The poor and working class got screwed, especially in places with unionized manufacturing work.
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Mar 27, 2015 22:51
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Oh Rand https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PV_kt9PRNKE quote:In a video posted yesterday by the Christian Broadcasting Network, Rand Paul addressed “a group of pastors and religious leaders at a private prayer breakfast” in Washington D.C. on Thursday
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Mar 27, 2015 23:09
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One Nation Under Aqua Buddha
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Mar 27, 2015 23:15
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We have a role to play in things like Marriage. And I am here to tell you it's the exact same role you happen to be playing right now. But y'know...maybe we can get a mob going?
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Mar 27, 2015 23:27
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I'm.. just going to leave this here: http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/25/politics/ben-carson-obama-psychopath-gq/
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Mar 27, 2015 23:34
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Tobermory posted:Here's one. According that that article NAFTA was pretty good for Mexico as a whole though?
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Mar 27, 2015 23:37
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That whole GQ article is a really great read. There's a fun part where Carson is meeting some Israeli's for something described like a "Strategic summit" but it turns out it's a couple of PR people. They meet him at a memorial site and he asks them if where they're standing is protected by the IRON DOME and if some sound near them is gunfire.....but the article mentions there are also school children taking a tour through the same site.  The interviewer also asks him if being at a memorial for six million Jews killed by Nazi's makes him rethink any of his claim that Obama's America is like Nazi Germany. He says no, it makes him believe it even more. Goddamn I can't wait for this primary. Intel&Sebastian fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Mar 27, 2015 |
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Mar 27, 2015 23:37
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Ben Carson at a live debate is definitely what I'm most looking forward to. I hope he doesn't flame out before then like Christie seems to be doing (because I was really looking forward to that too). Carson seems to be legitimately crazy and really very stupid and he's utterly convinced he's the smartest guy in the room. Even without a hostile or liberal moderator or opponent I can't imagine him making it through a debate without making a fool of himself.
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Mar 27, 2015 23:44
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Best part of the GQ article on Carson, in my opinion, was when he said the Syrian civil war was, "just like Ferguson".
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Mar 27, 2015 23:50
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STAC Goat posted:Carson seems to be legitimately crazy and really very stupid and he's utterly convinced he's the smartest guy in the room. Not sure if this was on purpose but the GQ article mentions that this is a very VERY real thing. There's a section talking about his lack of experience and they ask him "but what if President Obama decided he wanted to become a neurosurgeon with no experience?" and he chided the interviewer for betraying an obvious lack of knowledge about Neurosurgery. Joementum posted:Best part of the GQ article on Carson, in my opinion, was when he said the Syrian civil war was, "just like Ferguson". I've been kind of surprised at the different pulls each outlet takes from it. There's a gem every paragraph or so but it looks like that and the psychopath line are getting the most play.
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Mar 27, 2015 23:51
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Joementum posted:Best part of the GQ article on Carson, in my opinion, was when he said the Syrian civil war was, "just like Ferguson". http://watchdog.org/207981/isis/
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Mar 28, 2015 00:15
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Mar 28, 2015 00:26
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First Ted Cruz campaign commercial just dropped on Vine. Say what you will, but dude is with it: https://vine.co/v/O30F1F6m15B Kind of clever, might go over with the kids.
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Mar 28, 2015 00:38
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Series DD Funding posted:According that that article NAFTA was pretty good for Mexico as a whole though? NAFTA was pretty good for the very rich in Mexico. For the poor, not so much.
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Mar 28, 2015 00:46
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Ted Cruz seems to have a very wide head from front to back...
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Mar 28, 2015 00:46
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By the way, the event in that Ted Cruz photo was hosted by Jack Kimball. Who is Jack Kimball? Well, he's a former NH state GOP chair and he's got some stuff he'd like to share with you.quote:On Thursday, Kimball wrote, “Wake up America! Operation Jade Helm 15 (look it up) has now expanded to 10 states. It starts July 15 and ends in Mid September.” I had almost forgotten about this, but in 2013 he was alarmed to see a convoy of white trucks driving on a highway in Maine and decided to alert the media to what he assumed (because what else could it have been?) was the UN invading New Hampshire.
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Mar 28, 2015 01:19
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