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JerryLee posted:Well then, I apologize, because I didn't (and still don't) understand the distinction you're trying to draw there. In my mind, if that was a reason for GW dropping them, then it implicitly means they had a problem with trying to fit that part of the squat identity into the existing design space. No problem = no reason exists to drop an existing supported army. Unless this is an oblique way of reminding us that GW does poo poo for dumb reasons and we end up with post hoc justifications. "Problem" makes it sound like a pervasive issue and a bigger deal than I think it is. Some design overlap with marines is just one of the many likely reasons for why they dropped squats. I only brought it up to set up that a reason against introducing space skaven is design overlap with orks. Sorry, I don't mean that to sound combatative. I just think calling that a "problem" for GW blows it way out of proportion. 
PeterWeller fucked around with this message at 06:15 on Mar 28, 2015 |
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Mar 28, 2015 05:59
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PeterWeller posted:They weren't, and when they got fleshed out enough to be, a bunch of people got really mad. Because they were yet another stupid MEQ army in a metagame already dominated by MEQ armies. People were bitching about MEQ saturation more than ten years ago. Not to mentions that Necrons were lovely gimicky bullshit that are basically the same bullshit as Chaos Space Marines from a rules perspective. MEQ + Some Monsters! Cyberpunkey Monkey fucked around with this message at 07:04 on Mar 28, 2015 |
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Mar 28, 2015 06:59
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osirisisdead posted:Because they were yet another stupid MEQ army in a metagame already dominated by MEQ armies. People were bitching about MEQ saturation more than ten years ago. Not to mentions that Necrons were lovely gimicky bullshit that were basically the same bullshit as Chaos Space Marines from a crunch perspective. Man, I don't want to come off like I'm defending GW in your "gently caress GW" thread, so please don't take this as defense of GW. People were upset with "Newcrons" because of the fluff changes, not the rules. And they play very differently than Chaos Marines.
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Mar 28, 2015 07:16
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I'm talking about ten-plus years ago when they were released as a faction in 3rd ed. T4 3+ save, basically fearless 24 inch rapid fire weapons with <insert special rules here> If the whole GW bedshitting thing was a new trend that some of us old grogs could see a way out of, we might still have hope for the company and the game that we used to love. Cyberpunkey Monkey fucked around with this message at 08:15 on Mar 28, 2015 |
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Mar 28, 2015 08:08
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One of the core problems for GW will always be the d6. There just isn't that much you can do to meaningfully vary and differentiate stuff when a single point of difference makes such an impact. They've got more armies than they do possibilities for armor values or statlines.
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Mar 28, 2015 08:26
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The "new army" has started to go up, and it does look pretty cool. Reckon it'll save the quarter? Just noticed - twenty dollars for a transfer sheet! 
petrol blue fucked around with this message at 08:32 on Mar 28, 2015 |
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Mar 28, 2015 08:30
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Night10194 posted:One of the core problems for GW will always be the d6. There just isn't that much you can do to meaningfully vary and differentiate stuff when a single point of difference makes such an impact. They've got more armies than they do possibilities for armor values or statlines. I think they could do things differently if they tried, but as far as building an army, we have had to build lists specifically for fighting MEQ vs. fighting literally anything else for more than ten years now and since almost nobody plays anything but MEQ... the only thing that makes sense is to use whatever available to remove that 3+ save. Why do you think the plebs bitch about Eldar poo poo so much? It's because their lists are all tuned for fighting MEQ and when they run against Eldar it seems to be OP. The game's needed a complete overhaul on the scale of the change from 2nd to 3rd ed for at least 5 years, but instead, the 3rd ed model has been deified into canon and they keep bolting on more poo poo rather than going back and wiping the slate clean. Watching GW is like watching a very slow train wreck. Cyberpunkey Monkey fucked around with this message at 08:45 on Mar 28, 2015 |
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Mar 28, 2015 08:38
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petrol blue posted:Apparently so, but it's weird that they haven't jumped on such an obvious money maker. Maybe the whole squat affair turned them off direct fantasy to 40k ports? (Because biker dwarves riding trikes wasn't metal enough somehow?) That memoir will be hardcover and $86
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Mar 28, 2015 08:40
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Night10194 posted:One of the core problems for GW will always be the d6. There just isn't that much you can do to meaningfully vary and differentiate stuff when a single point of difference makes such an impact. They've got more armies than they do possibilities for armor values or statlines. It's what they do with it more than the fact that d6 are used. At least two of their oft-cited competitors (PP and Mantic) use d6s, albeit in different ways.
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Mar 28, 2015 09:49
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JerryLee posted:It's what they do with it more than the fact that d6 are used. At least two of their oft-cited competitors (PP and Mantic) use d6s, albeit in different ways. There are tons of games that are mechanically more elegant and/or more interesting, yet use d6's.
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Mar 28, 2015 11:08
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BlackIronHeart posted:Someone mentioned a game that had units rolling different dice (one might roll a d6, another a d8) to show how hard or fighty they were. Can anyone recall which game uses that mechanic? Stargrunt, Tomorrow's War (spiritual successor), Force on Force, and a bunch of other fairly grognardy games use the same system.
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Mar 28, 2015 11:46
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petrol blue posted:Just noticed - twenty dollars for a transfer sheet! I was wondering why the ranger/vanguard bundle with essentially two boxes of the infantry was like 20% more expensive than it should have been - a completely insane price for a transfer sheet suddenly makes it all clear.
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Mar 28, 2015 14:18
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Thats not the transfer sheet you get in the box, thats one of the forge world type A4 sheets.
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Mar 28, 2015 16:01
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Nope, same sheet. vs  petrol blue fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Mar 28, 2015 |
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Mar 28, 2015 16:13
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petrol blue posted:Apparently so, but it's weird that they haven't jumped on such an obvious money maker. Maybe the whole squat affair turned them off direct fantasy to 40k ports? (Because biker dwarves riding trikes wasn't metal enough somehow?) Space Skaven and Space Dwarfs just don't work, can't be done  
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Mar 28, 2015 16:54
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I know, right? I mean, look at this poo poo: Who the gently caress would buy that?  e: I'm a bit sad the not-squats have lost the biker aesthetic, though. On the other hand, OMG actual non-white paintjobs, and as the majority. Kudos for that. petrol blue fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Mar 28, 2015 |
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Mar 28, 2015 17:50
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Yea, I actually thought that the biker-thing was the only interesting thing about squats, because it was a nice diversion from the typical portrayal of dwarfs. Sure, fine, they're short and stoic, but if they are amazing engineers then why would they restrict themselves to lumping around in the future? Crazy squat biker gangs were more interesting than Gimli, space-knight.
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Mar 28, 2015 18:05
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petrol blue posted:I know, right? I mean, look at this poo poo: How about  ? Also not biker but this is my favourite 
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Mar 28, 2015 18:13
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petrol blue posted:I know, right? I mean, look at this poo poo: The rolleyes are to indicate sarcasm, right? Because that owns. At least compared to:  Mantic didn't even bother with erect warpstone nipples!
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Mar 28, 2015 18:23
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osirisisdead posted:I'm talking about ten-plus years ago when they were released as a faction in 3rd ed. Yeah, I know what you were talking about, and it's inaccurate. They had nearly the same profile, but they did not play the same. Those special rules made the difference between a shooting army that relied on large troop blocks (necrons) and an assault army that relied on mobile elite and fast attack units.
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Mar 28, 2015 18:54
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moths posted:The rolleyes are to indicate sarcasm, right? Because that owns. quote:Mantic didn't even bother with erect warpstone nipples!  Between those three models, e: Can you imagine being the studio painter when that gets given to you?  "Yeah, uh, make this look good for White Dwarf, OK?" "...What's it meant to be?"
petrol blue fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Mar 28, 2015 |
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Mar 28, 2015 20:09
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I know I've tried to say this before but it seems as though at some point GW realized that one of the main advantages they still had over their competitors was in engineering elaborate plastic kits, and so they cargo-culted from that into doing really compositionally weird poo poo for its own sake, which past a certain point doesn't work at all.
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Mar 28, 2015 23:07
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JerryLee posted:I know I've tried to say this before but it seems as though at some point GW realized that one of the main advantages they still had over their competitors was in engineering elaborate plastic kits, and so they cargo-culted from that into doing really compositionally weird poo poo for its own sake, which past a certain point doesn't work at all. I feel like this too, it's like they cover their models with ridiculous gewgaws to the point where it doesn't even really look all that good, and cram sprues with useless extraneous bits just because they can and claim it somehow adds massive value to their kits. I do like the new Skitarii, though, I must admit. I liked the Knight of Cydonia- sorry, Sydonian Dragoon a lot more before I noticed the weird dude wired directly into the machine itself, which conceptually is fine but I think the execution is pretty dumb.
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Mar 28, 2015 23:17
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PeterWeller posted:Man, I don't want to come off like I'm defending GW in your "gently caress GW" thread, so please don't take this as defense of GW. "Newcron" fluff was way better than the old Necron stuff, hail Ward.
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Mar 28, 2015 23:46
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FrostyPox posted:I do like the new Skitarii, though, I must admit. I liked the Knight of Cydonia- sorry, Sydonian Dragoon a lot more before I noticed the weird dude wired directly into the machine itself, which conceptually is fine but I think the execution is pretty dumb. The one with the turret looks stupid, but the lancer is classic John Blanche 40k and pretty rad. Price is loving ridiculous though, as expected.
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Mar 28, 2015 23:56
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JerryLee posted:I know I've tried to say this before but it seems as though at some point GW realized that one of the main advantages they still had over their competitors was in engineering elaborate plastic kits, and so they cargo-culted from that into doing really compositionally weird poo poo for its own sake, which past a certain point doesn't work at all. There was a point a few years back where the kits were probably their best. The models were easy enough to put together and it was the height of the multi pose stuff. Now you have a billion pieces and all the models seem to have either paired arms or a paired body/head or something that limits the customisation so they all end up looking the same. And they all seem to be so over detailed. The newer models really help people that like to drybrush.
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Mar 29, 2015 00:01
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Mormon Star Wars posted:"Newcron" fluff was way better than the old Necron stuff, hail Ward. No it was pretty bad. The only thing good about that codex was the cool Necron collector that steals everything he can get his metalic hands on.
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Mar 29, 2015 00:09
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FishFood posted:the lancer is classic John Blanche 40k and pretty rad look how wrong you are. Blanche has Long since stopped caring about hes' art, and everything he does for GW looks poo poo.
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Mar 29, 2015 00:15
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Renfield posted:look how wrong you are. Wat?
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Mar 29, 2015 01:12
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Mormon Star Wars posted:"Newcron" fluff was way better than the old Necron stuff, hail Ward. 
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Mar 29, 2015 01:15
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serious gaylord posted:There was a point a few years back where the kits were probably their best. The models were easy enough to put together and it was the height of the multi pose stuff. Now you have a billion pieces and all the models seem to have either paired arms or a paired body/head or something that limits the customisation so they all end up looking the same. And they all seem to be so over detailed. The newer models really help people that like to drybrush. probably somewhere between the GK and death company re-sculpts?
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Mar 29, 2015 01:17
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Moola posted:
I think the Sternguard are probably the high-water mark. They have the unfortunate sin of costing $50 for a type of box that ought to be $30-35 tops, but as models themselves they're great. Lots of places to add meaningful detail without needing to make the model twirl a long spiked chain while doing parkour.
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Mar 29, 2015 01:21
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"Mysterious ancient evil" is such a cliche. At least "angry robot grandpas" has some originality to it.
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Mar 29, 2015 01:22
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The newcron fluff is garbage that sucks rear end, idiots
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Mar 29, 2015 01:27
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Newcron is better, sorry. More character and personality is almost always better. For the record, Tyranids have the the same problem; They're essentially orks with the fun stripped out.
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Mar 29, 2015 01:42
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Tyranids are ok cause they're an alien ripoff and even ripoffs can't lose all the cool of alien
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Mar 29, 2015 01:44
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:The newcron fluff is garbage that sucks rear end, idiots all 40k fluff is garbage but newcrons are better
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Mar 29, 2015 01:47
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:The newcron fluff is garbage that sucks rear end, idiots Look at this wrongest opinion from the wrongest poster (other than Holismason).
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Mar 29, 2015 01:50
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Only thing I miss from oldcrons are the Pariah units
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Mar 29, 2015 01:51
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The last time I even looked at Necrons was probably ten years ago. They were a long dead race, like 6 million years old, that suddenly awoke and were fighting things. It might have been their first actual book? What were the old Necrons and how are the new ones different?
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Mar 29, 2015 05:37
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