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I wonder how much creative control Toriyama truly has on the movies. Of course he's going to be able to write the script and shape the project how he wants, but I wonder if there's a point where the guys writing the cheques for everything step in and say "Goku is the poster boy for this franchise and ultimately, Dragonball fans want to see him win" rightly or wrongly. I can't imagine Toriyama exclusively wanting Goku to be the one to get the killing blow every single time, especially considering that he had him lose in BoG and tried to push Gohan to the front with Cell (for the 2 minutes that lasted).
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Mar 30, 2015 15:12
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projecthalaxy posted:Not one time. Not even in the one scenario designed to give Vegeta the big moment can he have one, he still has to get upstaged. Boo to that. It's like he isn't the protagonist or something. I get that it gets pretty boring that it is always Goku who saves the day, but expecting that Vegeta gets the final kill on Freeza of all people is pretty ridiculous. e X fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Mar 30, 2015 |
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Mar 30, 2015 15:20
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spoilers for revival of f!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! goku fucks vegeta's wife and then says 'wow vegeta, you sure suck, just like' and then he turns to the camera and says your name and then he reaches through the movie screen to give you an atomic wedgie and steal all your pokemon cards
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Mar 30, 2015 15:25
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he steals all of frieza's pokemon cards too
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Mar 30, 2015 15:25
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e X posted:It's like he isn't the protagonist or something. Neither are Gohan, Krillin, Goten, or Trunks, and they all got movies where they got to be the guy. This is basically tailored for either Trunks or Vegeta. He can't have one movie?
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Mar 30, 2015 15:26
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Aurain posted:I wonder how much creative control Toriyama truly has on the movies. If he didn't have creative control, then BoG wouldn't have ended the way it did, and the 'fans/editors made Toriyama change the focus from Gohan!' thing has always been a rumour without basis.
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Mar 30, 2015 15:30
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projecthalaxy posted:Neither are Gohan, Krillin, Goten, or Trunks, and they all got movies where they got to be the guy. This is basically tailored for either Trunks or Vegeta. He can't have one movie? All the other movies try their hardest (and fail) to pretend to fit into the continuity of the show and that is the only reason Goku isn't the main star of every single one of them. Honestly, that is one of the reasons I don't really care for any of them. The show has enough material to, at least, give everybody an outing, if not to the extend many of us would like, but the movies are so short that we mostly just get a bland copycat villain that Goku for some reason can't beat until the final 10 minutes, while everybody else gets beaten up by minions.
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Mar 30, 2015 15:36
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CharlestheHammer posted:Well now I am convinced that none of you know what parody (or satire) is, as none of this fits. All you are saying is that dumb poo poo happens in DBZ, which it does! Doesn't make it a parody or whatever. I can't believe this was even an argument, when the Gotenks vs. Buu fight literally says, in text "I'm doing all this stupid poo poo (which includes an attack where he makes ghosts fly out of his rear end) because I heard that's how your fights went." edit: Much of the Buu saga is an homage or a statement to everything that came before. Goten and Trunks are kid Goku and Krillen, Buu makes all of their normal bullshit worthless because he's a magic genie, etc. And Gotenks is pretty much an entirely satirical character that makes fun of much of Z and literally says this. It's also a lot less serious and more Toriyama with him making things that were previously dramatic and serious silly. People that started with DBZ think that the Buu arc is weird because of the tonal shift, but as an end to the entire series, with all the callbacks, etc. it makes perfect sense. Darko fucked around with this message at 15:47 on Mar 30, 2015 |
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Mar 30, 2015 15:40
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I'm pretty okay with Vegeta not getting to win. Vegeta never actually did anything to redeem himself beyond "not murder everyone" and "care about his family." He literally killed billions of people without care or remorse and showed not an iota of shame for it. At best he went "Yeah, I *am* kind of a lovely person, aren't I?" From a character perspective he doesn't really deserve to get his big dramatic win because he never did anything to deserve it beyond change from "literally worse than Hitler" to "merely a giant rear end in a top hat." Yeah, Piccolo and Majin Buu did too but both of them kind of fall under the "that was the evil me, they're dead now and I'm a reincarnation."
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Mar 30, 2015 15:55
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Yeah but Vegeta is cool
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Mar 30, 2015 15:57
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I mean I don't know why anyone can be truly shocked that Goku saves the day in DBZ, but I hope Vegeta at least gets a little catharsis about Freeza killing everyone Vegeta cared about.
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Mar 30, 2015 16:03
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ImpAtom posted:I'm pretty okay with Vegeta not getting to win. Well he blew himself up while under the impression that it was a final death and that he would be sent to hell. ... I dunno, honestly. What can someone do to make up for genociding multiple planets?
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Mar 30, 2015 16:04
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Pureauthor posted:Well he blew himself up while under the impression that it was a final death and that he would be sent to hell. Seemed like it was good enough for what passes for religion in DBZ, with the caveat of "besides, somebody needs to help Goku."
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Mar 30, 2015 16:06
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Vegeta killed billions of people, but he also saved all of existence, so, you know, it balances out.
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Mar 30, 2015 16:12
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Dragonball: generally I like the voice work but Blonde Launch really crosses the accent line unlike anything else besides maybe Nam and his village. Also I'm in the General Blue stuff and I really can't remember why Red thought his real wish was going to fly with the rest of his army looking like this.
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Mar 30, 2015 16:15
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Pureauthor posted:Well he blew himself up while under the impression that it was a final death and that he would be sent to hell. It wasn't like he selflessly sacrificed himself to stop a great evil. That poo poo was entirely on him basically. It's certainly the most noble thing he does in the series but it's also basically "I'm doing this because my family lives here." I'm not saying he should be put on trial and executed or anything but it seems a bit weird for Ahab to get his Golden-And-Purple Whale if you get what I mean.
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Mar 30, 2015 16:16
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It kind of sounds like Vegeta pretty much wins and then gets punked at the last second, and Goku just undoes that last "OH GOD drat IT EAT A DICK FRIEZA" moment, given that it's three minutes back in time and we're not operating at show timescale..
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Mar 30, 2015 16:27
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Thank you last page, for removing any incentive I had for watching the new movie. I don't know what I was expecting.
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Mar 30, 2015 16:35
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Does the crew at least get any good fights with the subordinates?
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Mar 30, 2015 16:36
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I'm sure Piccolo and Gohan will each get to dispatch one (1) Frieza Soldier, followed by 18 ending up in peril somehow because we forgot she's a literal killing machine.
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Mar 30, 2015 16:39
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Rodyle posted:Does the crew at least get any good fights with the subordinates? The spoilers say that Piccolo has a good fight with the red devil looking man (Called Sashimi or a pun based on it) that Gohan saves him from, and that Gohan himself is put in mortal danger by someone who isn't fodder, supposedly. He gets better and then worse because earth explodes and then better.
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Mar 30, 2015 16:39
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Terper posted:Oh my lord. wow this poo poo sucks
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Mar 30, 2015 16:54
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projecthalaxy posted:followed by 18 ending up in peril somehow because we forgot she's a literal killing machine. This poo poo was so frustrating, isn't she stronger than all the non-Saiyans except maybe fused Piccolo?
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Mar 30, 2015 16:57
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Honestly, it doesn't sound too bad with the expansion on the quick recap. Before he goes Golden, Freeza gets his rear end kicked He goes Gold and starts winning. It becomes clear that Golden Freeza has the same weakness as before(he has an issue with stamina fighting at max power) Goku tries to take advantage of this but gets beaten by Golden Freeza (though part of it was being caught off guard by Sorbet) Vegeta steps in and gives Goku a senzu and then fights Freeza instead. Vegeta is winning but then Freeza blows up Earth thus killing Vegeta(Goku survives because he's over hanging out with Whis while watching Vegeta fight and he made a barrier) Whis uses his power to go back 3 minutes in time so Goku can finish Freeza off with a Kamehameha before he gets to blow up Earth. Settle down, nerds.
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Mar 30, 2015 16:57
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Webbeh posted:Honestly, it doesn't sound too bad with the expansion on the quick recap. sounds like complete poo poo actually
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Mar 30, 2015 16:58
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I guess Vegeta's song and dance routine will remain his finest movie moment.
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Mar 30, 2015 17:01
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That spoiler actually sounds pretty reasonable. My only hope is that they choreograph the fights better than in BoG.
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Mar 30, 2015 17:04
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Frieza had to cheat to win, Vegeta had him on the ropes.
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Mar 30, 2015 17:06
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My biggest problem with this is basically that they win via Reset Button. That's like... cheating.
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Mar 30, 2015 17:08
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It'll own if Whis yells at Goku for not doing anything.
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Mar 30, 2015 17:10
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Pureauthor posted:That's like... cheating. This is a franchise where they regularly use a magic wish-granting dragon. They sure as poo poo ain't above deus ex machina cheating.
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Mar 30, 2015 17:10
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Those spoilers were phrased wrong. Apparently Vegeta shines just fine: Before he goes Golden, Freeza gets his rear end kicked He goes Gold and starts winning. It becomes clear that Golden Freeza has the same weakness as before(he has an issue with stamina fighting at max power) Goku tries to take advantage of this but gets beaten by Golden Freeza (though part of it was being caught off guard by Sorbet) Vegeta steps in and gives Goku a senzu and then fights Freeza instead. Vegeta is winning but then Freeza blows up Earth thus killing Vegeta(Goku survives because he's over hanging out with Whis while watching Vegeta fight and he made a barrier) Whis uses his power to go back 3 minutes in time so Goku can finish Freeza off with a Kamehameha before he gets to blow up Earth. So yeah, it's just a sour grapes thing that happens that has to be undone, because it's cheating.
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Mar 30, 2015 17:13
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ImpAtom posted:This is a franchise where they regularly use a magic wish-granting dragon. They sure as poo poo ain't above deus ex machina cheating. Yeah Earth would be beyond hosed if they never used the dragonballs to cheat death. I mean remember when Goku thought it'd be a good idea to stay dead because surely his son would step up to the challenge?
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Mar 30, 2015 17:15
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I'm just wondering if Frieza debuts a new method or if he gets to spark, charge, and fire a Supernova while Vegeta is fighting him.
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Mar 30, 2015 17:20
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Darko posted:Those spoilers were phrased wrong. hay good lookin' 
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Mar 30, 2015 17:21
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projecthalaxy posted:I'm just wondering if Frieza debuts a new method or if he gets to spark, charge, and fire a Supernova while Vegeta is fighting him. Maybe he raises his hands up and suddenly on Earth Krillin starts to raise in the air to explode, but this time the explosion takes out the whole planet?
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Mar 30, 2015 17:23
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Yeah, okay, I was right, Vegeta basically wins and Goku just comes in to undo Frieza's final gently caress-you. I actually like that a lot.
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Mar 30, 2015 17:35
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Wait, so they brought back frieza just to kill him off again?
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Mar 30, 2015 17:51
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projecthalaxy posted:I'm just wondering if Frieza debuts a new method or if he gets to spark, charge, and fire a Supernova while Vegeta is fighting him. Or he pulls a Reverse Goku and charges an evil Spirit-bomb thing while Vegeta stares at him and tries to figure out what he's doing
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Mar 30, 2015 17:53
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Does Krillin get any time to shine? One of the trailers showed him getting a few good hits in on fodder. I just want to see him beat up a bunch of grunts.
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