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ADudeWhoAbides posted:Corvettes still seem pointless right now, but maybe I just haven't seen the right objective for them. Electronic Countermeasures is nice for a Corvette's survival, and Rebels can only access Overload Pulse from the Corvette B out of the Core Set ships. Take the ISD's defenses down and rip him a new one.
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Apr 1, 2015 17:09
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Taran_Wanderer posted:I'm not sure I would go that far, as X-Wings have dominated TIEs in my local group so far. As you said, though, this might be more about our relative inexperience than anything else. The Victory I is only 73 points. Tarkin is not worth 35 points for one token per turn unless you're really bad at planning and need it to overcome the command in your Victory. I'd up to the Victory Ii and grab Overload Pulse and Gunnery Team and another TIE squadron. Remember that fighters, once engaged, cannot move until not engaged. If you send your TIES around as a big blob you can gum up all of the X-wings and subsequently murder them all with a lot of dice that also get rerolls. X-wings are paying a lot of points for Escort right now when it means literally nothing.
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Apr 1, 2015 17:22
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S.J. posted:I believe it's the other way around, if you take any hull damage and any of the dice have a crit on them, the first faceup hull damage is a crit. You do not apply crit results to shields first. Although that's something you'll want to double check of course. There is no rule that says crits are explicitly absorbed by shields. Instead, you "spend" your crit on a bonus effect to go along with the attack. Some upgrade cards give you explicit options you can spend it on (even if the enemy has shields remaining). The confusing part that the rules don't do a good job of clarifying is: All ships have a default ability to spend crits on "The first damage card dealt to the target is face up". This can't affect shields, since you are decreasing their shield counter instead of dealing a damage card. The end effect looks the same as "crits do not affect shields", but the actual mechanics of why are subtly different, and this subtle difference is what makes the crit upgrade cards so confusing for people coming into this game with X-Wing experience (which is probably all of them).
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Apr 1, 2015 17:29
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Strobe posted:The Victory I is only 73 points. Tarkin is not worth 35 points for one token per turn unless you're really bad at planning and need it to overcome the command in your Victory. Oops, yeah, the Victory I is only 73. I can't remove Tarkin, though, as each Fleet requires a Flagship. I've been using TIE Fighters to engage X-Wings as much as possible, but I've found that, while they delay the X-Wings well enough, they die too quickly once the X-Wings have a chance to strike back. I'll have to see how it works when I'm better about using the Squadron command to attack with several TIE Fighters at once.
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Apr 1, 2015 17:51
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Taran_Wanderer posted:Oops, yeah, the Victory I is only 73. I can't remove Tarkin, though, as each Fleet requires a Flagship. My group totally missed that part. 35 points would have significantly impacted the Victory's effectiveness. I still recommend Overload Pulse, though, because it's really good at bludgeoning through defense tokens. The way to use the TIEs requires a bit of planning. First turn, bank a squadron activation. Second turn, whatever the gently caress you feel like. Third turn, if you think the Rebels are going to be aggressive do another squadron activation (with Expanded Hangars) and activate like five of your TIE squads at once to just blow a squad or two of X-wings out of the sky. If you time it right you'll get them before they can return fire, and that shifts the balance in space significantly. EDIT: tl;dr he who activates first generally wins in squadron fights. If you win the squadron fights your victory can just murder one of the Rebel ships and then it's pretty much downhill from there.
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Apr 1, 2015 18:05
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Yeah, I think for Rebels spreading squads out so they can't be all tied up at once and alpha struck with be a big deal. Honestly the points limit on squads instead of a number limit means that will be really hard for rebels.
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Apr 1, 2015 18:19
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You have to take Tarkin though, right? The rules say a fleet has to have a flagship, and Tarkin is the only realeased imperial commander.
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Apr 1, 2015 18:23
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I don't think I agree. Rebel squadrons are more than 50% harder to kill with their 5 Hull rating to the TIE's 3, and they're rolling four straight dice instead of 3+reroll. I've had a lot of success with dumping them onto a Victory and Bombering them into bits, and the Victory's low maneuverability means it's easier to juggle their positioning to keep them in front as the Imperial player keeps running them over every turn. I've avoided tangling with TIES that way with pretty good success.
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Apr 1, 2015 18:24
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The Gate posted:Yeah, I think for Rebels spreading squads out so they can't be all tied up at once and alpha struck with be a big deal. Honestly the points limit on squads instead of a number limit means that will be really hard for rebels. Pretty much. Splitting up is pretty much mandatory, but while you keep your fighters from being the Marianas Turkeyshoot en miniature you lose out on being able to use your squads to actually support and screen your ships. As the Imperial player, it's totally my poo poo to shoot down a pair of X-wing squads and then strafe the ever loving poo poo out of a Corvette. It's more difficult, based on how things move and in what order, but a single squadron activation at a good time on the Imp side is a total game winner. When you can get four squadrons to activate at once with no preparation (especially with a Weapons Liaison) to a maximum of four on the Rebel side if you spend three turns saving up for it the fighter war is really tilted toward the Imperials. Like I said before, right now the easy option works for Imperials but gets Rebels killed. In order to win as Rebels you have to take the not-easy option (i.e. don't slug it out).
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Apr 1, 2015 18:25
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Cobbsprite posted:I don't think I agree. Rebel squadrons are more than 50% harder to kill with their 5 Hull rating to the TIE's 3, and they're rolling four straight dice instead of 3+reroll. I've had a lot of success with dumping them onto a Victory and Bombering them into bits, and the Victory's low maneuverability means it's easier to juggle their positioning to keep them in front as the Imperial player keeps running them over every turn. I've avoided tangling with TIES that way with pretty good success. A decently flown TIE blob is shooting 4+reroll with Howlrunner, and you're flying four squads against one or two. It adds up fast. Remember that being engaged means you can't move or shoot at capships until you're not engaged anymore. It only takes one TIE squad to totally much that up for turns at a time.
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Apr 1, 2015 18:26
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Taran_Wanderer posted:I'm not sure I would go that far, as X-Wings have dominated TIEs in my local group so far. As you said, though, this might be more about our relative inexperience than anything else. I built this exact same list and got two games in with it last night. Both were wins for me with the VSD being a murder machine, but I didn't really feel like I needed the extra boost from the missiles. I'm leaning towards dropping them for a Weapons Liason to make my commands more flexible. Hanger Bay isn't needed to activate all of your squadrons with Tarkin handing out a squadron token whenever you need it unless you're running 5 TIEs sometime.
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Apr 1, 2015 18:55
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FuSchnick posted:In ship-to-ship combat, crits count as a normal damage, plus you get a "crit effect" available on the attack. This is a "yes/no" thing, not a "how many" thing. Ah so there is more than one crit effect, the one the Learn to Play guide mentions just happens to be the one that all ships can do. I suppose i don't fault it for not going "here's what a crit effect is, oh by the way there are a few different ones,but don't worry about those and only use this one for now" Do those other effects mostly come from upgrades and such? The learning scenario is without those things from the looks of it.
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Apr 1, 2015 19:09
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Strobe posted:A decently flown TIE blob is shooting 4+reroll with Howlrunner, and you're flying four squads against one or two. It adds up fast. Remember that being engaged means you can't move or shoot at capships until you're not engaged anymore. It only takes one TIE squad to totally much that up for turns at a time. Maybe I've just had good (or bad) dice, but my TIE squadrons have been getting vaporized by X-wings. It's taking them an average of three activations to kill a squadron of Xs, and just about one and a half on average for Rebs to smash the TIEs. Running a Nebulon-B to sweep fighters helps a lot, but my TIE fighters are just not cutting it against X-wings unless they're outnumbering them by two to one.
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Apr 1, 2015 19:11
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I suppose my one other question is a clarification for number of dice. Whenever you're able to use a dice, you use all of them of one color right? So squadrons of fighters are attacking capital ships with 3 reds instead of the 1 shown on their card for example(as long as they are in range 1 of course) or even at long rage when the Victory is shooting with just the red dice, it uses all 3.
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Apr 1, 2015 19:26
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HOOLY BOOLY posted:I suppose my one other question is a clarification for number of dice. Whenever you're able to use a dice, you use all of them of one color right? So squadrons of fighters are attacking capital ships with 3 reds instead of the 1 shown on their card for example(as long as they are in range 1 of course) or even at long rage when the Victory is shooting with just the red dice, it uses all 3. You use all of the dice that correspond to the firing arc, range, and target type. For fighters attacking capital ships, you attack with the SINGLE blue die (for TIE fighters) or red die (for X-wings) that it shows on their squadron card. For fighters attacking other fighters, you attack with their 3 (for TIEs) or 4 (for X-s) blue dice. For capital ships attacking fighters, you attack with the 2 (for Escort Frigate) or 1 (for everything else) blue dice. For capital ships attacking other capital ships, you roll ALL of the dice in their arc that have range - so a Victory-II in the front arc at long range will roll 3 red dice, and a Victory-II in the front arc at medium (or short) range will roll 3 red AND 3 blue dice.
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Apr 1, 2015 19:36
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HOOLY BOOLY posted:Ah so there is more than one crit effect, the one the Learn to Play guide mentions just happens to be the one that all ships can do. I suppose i don't fault it for not going "here's what a crit effect is, oh by the way there are a few different ones,but don't worry about those and only use this one for now" AFAIK all crit effects other than the default one come from upgrade cards. At least so far.
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Apr 1, 2015 23:01
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Played two games last night, both times as rebels. The first was a Rebel victory as I killed all the Tie Fighters (drat that Escort Frigate is useful) and he only killed one X-Wing squad. The Nebulon-B almost died but I accelerated it to top speed and just booked it out of range of the Star Destroyer and we timed out with the corvette shooting it in the back constantly. My maneuvering was right on and I was able to keep the Corvette at either max range or in his rear arc for most of the game. Second game we each built 180 points worth and also picked objectives. I wanted to try the Dodoona's Pride so I took a Corvette with it and ECM, and the Nebulon-B Support Refit with the Turbolasers that let you switch a crit or hit result to a lock down. All of these choices were mistakes in hindsight. I put Dodoona on the frigate in the hope of keeping him alive longer. I also managed to afford 3 X-Wing squadrons. I had less points (175, to his 180 exactly) so I got to choose who went first. I made him the 1st player, as I thought that getting to activate both my ships after he had used his Star Destroyers activation would be useful. He picked Hyperspace Assault for the scenario and we setup. It was very strange starting with just the Frigate on the board, but really cool when I jumped in the Corvette and 3-Xwings behind the Star Destroyer on turn 3. However I think I waited way too long. Tarkin proved to be really strong, as he was able to use an attack token and reveal an attack dial on multiple turns. He managed to wipe out the frigate in one attack, but I played really badly and positioned it so that he could get a side shot with his front guns. His ship just proved to be an unkillable juggernaut - he could use Tarkin to get a free Engineering token every turn and that meant he was getting a shield back for free at the least. The X-Wings did a lot of work and were slowly bleeding him of shields but they just couldn't do it fast enough. Thoughts: The Escort Frigate is a really nice ship, but you can't let it get close to the imp ships at all. Those huge side arcs are amazing for cutting down fighters but they are also a huge weakness because you only have 1 shield in those zones. Overload pulse, or just taking the Corvette variant with all red dice and sitting at max range so you can evade seem like much better choices than Odoona's Pride. ECM is really good. Tie Fighters are scary in a swarm and surprisingly fast, but if you can get a good shot on them with anti-fighter fire your X-wings will be able to go to town on the Star Destroyer with near impunity. I will maybe be tempted to keep the X-wings close to the Escort Frigate in future until the Tie Fighters have been whittled down.
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Apr 2, 2015 10:01
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Get to check out Armada tomorrow  What are the big first-play mistakes, the Armada equivalents of X-Wing's bump and obstacle rules?
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Apr 3, 2015 00:30
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General Battuta posted:Get to check out Armada tomorrow You only get one crit effect per attack. including upgrade card that use crit effects. If you do not use upgrade cards' crits effects, you only flip the first card face up, the rest are face down. You can only use one of each kind of defense token per attack. Accuracy results pick one token but one class of token. Overload Pulse does not stop the December from using tokens that attack. Uh, a couple other things I'm forgetting.
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Apr 3, 2015 00:52
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Strobe posted:Accuracy results pick one token but one class of token. Accuracy results pick one token not one class of token.
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Apr 3, 2015 01:02
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The perils of posting on a phone. There is no such thing as a December in this game either
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Apr 3, 2015 01:05
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Strobe posted:The perils of posting on a phone. There is no such thing as a December in this game either If only there was an October 
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Apr 3, 2015 01:53
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Rule I almost forgot! Anti squadron rolls hit everything in the firing ship's arc, so try not to have all your TIEs in one arc of the Neb 
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Apr 3, 2015 01:55
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Squadrons not taking damage from crits was one that threw me off initially as well as squadrons only getting to move OR attack in the Squadron Phase, but getting to do both with the Squadron Command.
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Apr 3, 2015 04:00
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smashthedean posted:Squadrons not taking damage from crits was one that threw me off initially as well as squadrons only getting to move OR attack in the Squadron Phase, but getting to do both with the Squadron Command. My Friend (who was playing rebels) used that to great effect, his X-wings were killing machines with a support frigate constantly throwing them out like Space Ninja stars or something. Also Ramming is pretty effective against Star destroyer Shield spam, if you an get some early damage in you can hammer those last points in.
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Apr 3, 2015 10:37
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smashthedean posted:Squadrons not taking damage from crits was one that threw me off initially as well as squadrons only getting to move OR attack in the Squadron Phase, but getting to do both with the Squadron Command. Yeah, I definitely ran my TIEs forward hard in the Squadron phase and they got rocked because my rebel opponent was always going before me Hopefully Amazon ships me my drat core set before wave 1 is out
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Apr 3, 2015 14:24
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Phrosphor posted:
I think you might be doing this wrong, ships can only fire on Squadrons with their anti squadron weaponry, and it doesn't matter what arc you use, it still counts as one of your two attacks as well.
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Apr 3, 2015 14:43
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LumberingTroll posted:I think you might be doing this wrong, ships can only fire on Squadrons with their anti squadron weaponry, and it doesn't matter what arc you use, it still counts as one of your two attacks as well. Not sure what you mean with this. The Escort Frigate gets 2 blue dice with it's anti-squadron weapons, the most out of any ship in the core set. In addition it's wide side arcs mean that you can get an attack against a lot of squadrons in one attack action. You realise that when you attack with anti-squadron weapons you get an attack against EVERY squadron in range and in that arc right? (Page 15 of the learn to play book, last section on that page).
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Apr 3, 2015 18:30
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Phrosphor posted:Not sure what you mean with this. The Escort Frigate gets 2 blue dice with it's anti-squadron weapons, the most out of any ship in the core set. In addition it's wide side arcs mean that you can get an attack against a lot of squadrons in one attack action. You realise that when you attack with anti-squadron weapons you get an attack against EVERY squadron in range and in that arc right? (Page 15 of the learn to play book, last section on that page). I did not know that, thanks for pointing it out, it now makes sense that you said that huge arc was so important. They only fire at Range 1 though dont they?
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Apr 3, 2015 18:37
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LumberingTroll posted:I did not know that, thanks for pointing it out, it now makes sense that you said that huge arc was so important. They only fire at Range 1 though dont they? Blue dice, so blue range is my understanding. I didn't realise this at first either, but it makes the "Escort" part of the name make a lot more sense once you work it out!
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Apr 3, 2015 18:41
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Phrosphor posted:Blue dice, so blue range is my understanding. I didn't realise this at first either, but it makes the "Escort" part of the name make a lot more sense once you work it out! This is correct, you fire at the medium range of all blue dice, and at all enemy starfighter squadrons in the arc. What I don't get is the point behind Support Frigates. It has a reduced antifighter armament, a reduced Engineering value, and a slightly reduced point cost. It has the same upgrades and capital weaponry/shield values, so I don't see much "support" value in it.
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Apr 3, 2015 21:43
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Same Engineering, lower Squadron and lower anti-fighter. For six points, I suspect that the answer to that will be in upgrades that aren't out yet. X17 Turbolasers seem like they would actually be a pretty good thing for the Support Frigate that would fit into the exact same cost as an unupgraded Escort Frigate.
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Apr 3, 2015 21:47
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Strobe posted:Same Engineering, lower Squadron and lower anti-fighter. Right right, lower squadron value. My mixup, there.
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Apr 3, 2015 21:59
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I was able to squeeze in another upgrade on my Corvette B by downgrading to a Support Refit one game, so it has its uses.
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Apr 3, 2015 22:41
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So, unless I'm misreading something, isn't having a higher command value inherently bad? The Victory has to plan 2-3 turns ahead, while the Rebel ships all play in their turn or plan only a turn ahead. Is that right?
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Apr 4, 2015 14:14
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The price you pay for having vastly greater firepower & shielding!
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Apr 4, 2015 14:21
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Oh, I know it's a tradeoff, I was just making sure I wasn't misreading something.
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Apr 4, 2015 14:26
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A 50S RAYGUN posted:So, unless I'm misreading something, isn't having a higher command value inherently bad? The Victory has to plan 2-3 turns ahead, while the Rebel ships all play in their turn or plan only a turn ahead. Is that right? Shockeh posted:The price you pay for having vastly greater firepower & shielding! Keep in mind all of the token generating capabilities currently available to the Empire. You may have to plot the next 3 turns worth of tokens, but you can also hold 3 tokens to use when you need them. Tarkin generates one every turn as well.
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Apr 4, 2015 15:04
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I successfully replicated the plot of A New Hope yesterday by flying Tarkin on the Dominator, dominating all my shields into lasers, and getting torpedoed by Luke in my moment of triumph.
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Apr 4, 2015 16:16
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I had my first 300-point game yesterday at my FLGS. A guy and I both brought our core sets, and we combined them to make 300-point lists and play out a full game with objectives on a 3x6 play area. We flipped for sides, I got Empire. I set up a Victory I with Enhanced Hangar Bay + Assault Concussion Missiles + Wulff Yularen, a Victory II with Enhanced Armament + Dominator + Gunnery Team + Tarkin, Howlrunner, and 5 TIE Fighter squadrons. I squared off against a CR90a, CR90b, and an Escort Frigate backed up by Luke Skywalker and six X-wing squadrons. He won initiative, and I picked Hyperspace Assault as our scenario. He pocketed the Escort Frigate and 3 X-wing squadrons, and set his CR90s up, each with a pair of X-wings, on opposite sides to run in and flank me. I ran my Vic-II onto the station and parked it there, hoping to tempt his reinforcement group into jumping to the nearby marker. Sure enough, on the second round he jumped his Nebulon-B and squadrons into it. I got in a side shot from Vic-II (with Dominator adding a bonus two blue dice), and the Vic-I went up the top to try and engage his CR90s. Since he broke his X-wings up into three groups, my TIEs swarmed them and got enough local superiority to vaporize first one group of two, then the other. He made a bad mistake pulling his Neb-B in so close to the Vic-II. He took a broadside to his vulnerable side shields, then had to run out into my forward arc because he was traveling so fast. Next turn, I poured six dice into his Neb-B from Vic-II and three reds from the Vic-I, and it came apart. The turn after that, he couldn't stop his CR90a from coming into the Vic-I's forward arc. Three red and three black dice added up to 9 damage at close range (with doubles and Assault Concussion Missiles). One turn, one shot, and the CR90a vaporized. His three remaining X-wing squadrons managed to get a handful of hits into my Vic-II and pulled some damage out of it, but it stayed parked on the station. I traded sporatic fire with the surviving enemy ship, and the clock ran out before I could really nail it. Final Tally: Rebel Losses Nebulon-B Escort Frigate CR-90a Corvette Luke Skywalker X-wing Fighter Squadron x4 Imperial Losses TIE Fighter Squadron x3
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Apr 5, 2015 04:17
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