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Big Mean Jerk posted:How is it any more mindless than the 10 movies that came before? The only Trek movie that's even partially cerebral is TMP. Everything else is popcorn. Star Trek TMP is a lot of things. Star Trek 2 is about Kirk growing older and having to really face death for the first time. Star Trek 3 is about making sacrifices for the ones that you love Star Trek 4 is a light hearted comedy with a thinly veiled environmental conservation message Star Trek 5 is kind of a mess but it tried to tackle some ideas like facing your fear and facing God. Star Trek 6 is an allegory for the fail of the USSR and what it meant for cold-warriors who had never done anything else in their lives 4 and 5 are the only ones I could call popcorn. The last 3 TNG movies are very much popcorn but you never see anyone here praise them outside of First Contact being half decent popcorn.
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Apr 1, 2015 23:18
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Your movie can have a theme and still be mindless.
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Apr 1, 2015 23:22
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Big Mean Jerk posted:How is it any more mindless than the 10 movies that came before? The only Trek movie that's even partially cerebral is TMP. Everything else is popcorn. TMP and TUC are pretty cerebral and not popcorn-y, 4, 5, First Contact and Nemesis are all popcorn movies, the others are somewhere in the middle. So that's... 6/10 that aren't pure popcorn action, and two of the popcorn ones are flaming garbage that most people file in the Not Real Trek category anyways. e: while I'm here, my friend "hates Star Trek" but his knowledge of it is limited to a guy he now hates showing him a few episodes with "the bald dude" (Picard). He seems like he'd be really into TOS and possibly some of the better TNG stuff, so I'm thinking of showing him City on the Edge of Forever, Arena, and Spock's Brain (shut up it's hilarious) for TOS and then Darmok and Chain of Command for TNG. Is this a good plan? WeedlordGoku69 fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Apr 1, 2015 |
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Apr 1, 2015 23:23
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FC is also a good sequel to BOBW, in my view. I think it does a way better job with Picard than the forced drama in Generations with his nephew dying in a fire, which just comes off kind of ridiculous and for the sake of the story.
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Apr 1, 2015 23:28
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Tighclops posted:At this point you're basically defining everything short of films like 2001 or Solaris as mindless popcorn, which is of course ludicrous. hey now, some of those CG setpieces were just blue...
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Apr 1, 2015 23:29
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First Contact is legit one of the best popcorn action movies of the 90s, it's just also a popcorn action movie
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Apr 1, 2015 23:30
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I think the main point I wish to make is that typically the best Star Trek entries aspire to be more than just popcorn (even First Contact, with it's broken little ships and so on), and if that is even still true of the newest films, they're awful at it in spite of (or perhaps in part because of) their now absurdly massive budgets or associated writers being loving 9/11 truthers.
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Apr 1, 2015 23:32
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FWIW I loved Star Trek '09 and I thought Into Darkness was still pretty decent, if a big step down, so maybe my opinion needs recalibrating.
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Apr 1, 2015 23:37
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LORD OF BUTT posted:FWIW I loved Star Trek '09 and I thought Into Darkness was still pretty decent, if a big step down, so maybe my opinion needs recalibrating.
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Apr 1, 2015 23:40
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Your movie can have a theme and still be mindless. To wit: First Contact is about letting go of your pain before it eats you alive and hurts everyone around you. Generations is about how getting old doesn't mean you're useless or that life is terrible. Insurrection is about not letting bloody thirsty violence and vanity infect your culture and destroy you from within. Nemesis is about the terribleness of war in general and owning up to your mistakes. These movies aren't exactly mindful or deep but they do have themes and messages.
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Apr 1, 2015 23:41
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I thought ID was a collection of really great scenes that added up to a terrible movie.
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Apr 1, 2015 23:50
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Mogomra posted:I just want to remind people that Season 2 of Voyager has The 37's, Tattoo, Threshold, The Thaw, and Tuvix. Season 2 is the worst season of Voyager. Nothing wrong with Janeway being lesbian wet over Amelia Earhart  Also I've not even finished S2 yet so I can't really say what's what, and I can't remember what happens in which other season well enough to comment currently, but Season 2 also contains Meld, Dreadnought, Death Wish, Lifesigns, and Deadlock. Almost all flawed, as per Voyager standard, but still all really enjoyable. However, tonight's show for Pikestaff and me is Innocence, which appears to be about space kids, soooo this might be worse than Threshold. e; On the movies, I love ST09, I think it's one of the best Trek movies. ID was weaker in a lot of ways but I still enjoyed it for what it was, even if it was riddled with plot holes. e2; Remember to count Galaxy Quest as a Trek movie because the even-odd curse holds Ms Adequate fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Apr 2, 2015 |
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Apr 2, 2015 00:46
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HIJK posted:To wit: First Contact is about letting go of your pain before it eats you alive and hurts everyone around you. I thought Insurrection was about saving helpless white people 
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Apr 2, 2015 01:10
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Insurrection is about how a man will dismiss a perfectly useful plan (everyone gets magic immortality particles) because he wants to nail some broad (that part doesn't need explained).
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Apr 2, 2015 01:33
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Kibayasu posted:I thought Insurrection was about saving helpless white people Insurrection is terrible for this reason alone. It's heroic white people saving enlightened white people from bad white people because the whiny space teenagers are mad at their space parents. One of the black dudes does nothing for the entire movie, the other one is solely comic relief (oh ho he has a SPACE ZIT). Oh, and both of the main cast women are there to do nothing but support the men and comment on their boobs. The leading guest actress exists to spout exposition as she falls in love with Captain White and then stand back while he rescues her. It's bad. Not Turnabout Intruder bad, but pretty insulting.
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Apr 2, 2015 01:36
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Not to get into SMG levels of overanalysis, but you could easily make a case for ST09 being about running from your past and eventually accepting it as what shapes you. Kirk is running from his father's legacy and the pressure to follow in his footsteps, Spock is running from the Vulcan half of his heritage, Nero is running from a reality where everything he loves is gone, and Spock is running from the mistakes that helped cause that reality. I have no defense for STID.
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Apr 2, 2015 01:38
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Zurui posted:Insurrection is terrible for this reason alone. It's heroic white people saving enlightened white people from bad white people because the whiny space teenagers are mad at their space parents. One of the black dudes does nothing for the entire movie, the other one is solely comic relief (oh ho he has a SPACE ZIT). Oh, and both of the main cast women are there to do nothing but support the men and comment on their boobs. The leading guest actress exists to spout exposition as she falls in love with Captain White and then stand back while he rescues her. I also feel like they missed an opportunity to tie the movie in with the ongoing Dominion War and DS9. It was kind of ridiculous that at the worst part of the War, when the Federation was in trouble, the goddamn flagship is off in some backwater.
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Apr 2, 2015 01:43
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Changeling infiltrators ordered the Enterprise to go over there
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Apr 2, 2015 02:14
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According to the EU books the Admiral's plot was orchestrated by Section 31, which makes sense, since they would be the kind of people interested in exploiting the Ba'ku planet's regenerative powers for the war effort.
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Apr 2, 2015 02:18
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Sash! posted:Changeling infiltrators ordered the Enterprise to go over there
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Apr 2, 2015 02:23
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FlamingLiberal posted:According to the EU books the Admiral's plot was orchestrated by Section 31, which makes sense, since they would be the kind of people interested in exploiting the Ba'ku planet's regenerative powers for the war effort. Pffffft, what isn't Section 31 behind according to the Trek books?
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Apr 2, 2015 03:14
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FlamingLiberal posted:Insurrection is worse than most of the TNG 2-parters. I always figured the TNG movies were all meant to be a few years ahead of where the TV shows were - like how First Contact had the grey uniforms that DS9 didn't introduce until a couple of seasons later, so I assumed Insurrection was meant to be after the war was over.
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Apr 2, 2015 03:48
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DS9 switched uniforms a month after First Contact came out.
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Apr 2, 2015 03:52
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Angry Salami posted:I always figured the TNG movies were all meant to be a few years ahead of where the TV shows were - like how First Contact had the grey uniforms that DS9 didn't introduce until a couple of seasons later, so I assumed Insurrection was meant to be after the war was over. But the admiral guy mentions the Dominion War not going well when he's in the turbolift with Picard so it's pretty clearly meant to be happening during all that. As for the Enterprise not taking part in the Dominion War I just kind of assumed that it's because even though there's a war going on, the Federation still needs people to go and negotiate treaties and do other diplomatic stuff with the other federation worlds, and the flagship of the fleet is a good choice for this, especially considering the Enterprise wasn't supposed to be a warship (which is why they had families and stuff on board). I also think it's mentioned in one of the novels that the Enterprise single-handedly saved Betazed from a Dominion attack, so there's that.
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Apr 2, 2015 04:02
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The real reason is that they wanted to separate the films and the TV show, which is why no Sovereign class ship ever appeared in DS9 and why the films only had small throwaway references to non-TNG stuff.
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Apr 2, 2015 04:30
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Twelve by Pies posted:But the admiral guy mentions the Dominion War not going well when he's in the turbolift with Picard so it's pretty clearly meant to be happening during all that. I thought Betazed was conquered by the Dominion at one point.
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Apr 2, 2015 04:38
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It was, there was an EU novel about how the Enterprise crew and some others helped take it back
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Apr 2, 2015 04:48
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Speaking of TV/movie splits, does anyone have any idea at all why the TV rights went to CBS and the movie rights went to Paramount? Why wouldn't they have all gone together as a package?
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Apr 2, 2015 05:24
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Snak posted:Also, concerning Tuvok's lute: I know that making musical instruments is hard, but after all of the planets with health forests the visited, Tuvok never attempted to harvest materials to construct a lute? Like he never replicated one because he thought it was an irresponsible use of replicator rations, but given his Vulcan patience and extreme attention to detail, he probably could have made a project of it. He was too busy with that random jumble of sticks that was some kind logic test.
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Apr 2, 2015 05:53
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Pffffft, what isn't Section 31 behind according to the Trek books? Bringing the Romulans into the alliance against the Dominion by murdering their most vocal pro-Dominion senator in a false flag bombing.
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Apr 2, 2015 06:12
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Speaking of TV/movie splits, does anyone have any idea at all why the TV rights went to CBS and the movie rights went to Paramount? Why wouldn't they have all gone together as a package? Viacom split itself in half specifically to separate TV networks and movie studios. It's just in Star Trek's case, there were both.
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Apr 2, 2015 06:16
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bull3964 posted:Viacom split itself in half specifically to separate TV networks and movie studios. It's just in Star Trek's case, there were both. Huh. I still don't get what's accomplished by that, but I guess that's why I don't have a business degree. (not bagging on your explanation, now I know why Star Trek got split, just still seems weird to me)
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Apr 2, 2015 06:42
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Cythereal posted:Bringing the Romulans into the alliance against the Dominion by murdering their most vocal pro-Dominion senator in a false flag bombing. I dunno, man. Where'd that guy who made the fake
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Apr 2, 2015 06:43
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Huh. I still don't get what's accomplished by that, but I guess that's why I don't have a business degree. Wikipedia sez: quote:It was also intended to provide alternative investments that would be more appealing to different investors: one a high cash flow, lower growth company that could afford to pay a substantial dividend and the other a growing company that would have greater investment opportunities and therefore would not be expected to pay a dividend.
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Apr 2, 2015 07:10
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Huh. I still don't get what's accomplished by that, but I guess that's why I don't have a business degree. The business explanation was that they were spinning off the high growth (MTV, Paramount Pictures) into a new Viacom that could take more risks while renaming the original Viacom to CBS which represented slow growth (CBS, CW, etc.) The non-business explanation is that the heads of CBS and MTV had a rivalry with each other which finally culminated with the infamous nip slip that got MTV barred from producing halftime shows for the (CBS televised) Super Bowl. So yes, Janet Jackson's breast is partially responsible for the Star Trek Movie/TV split. bull3964 fucked around with this message at 07:13 on Apr 2, 2015 |
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Apr 2, 2015 07:11
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Cojawfee posted:He was too busy with that random jumble of sticks that was some kind logic test. When you've had enough logic, an enthralling session of guided meditation is all the entertainment you need! 
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Apr 2, 2015 07:17
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Cythereal posted:Bringing the Romulans into the alliance against the Dominion by murdering their most vocal pro-Dominion senator in a false flag bombing. That would make an excellent episode.
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Apr 2, 2015 09:39
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FlamingLiberal posted:Insurrection is worse than most of the TNG 2-parters. Insurrection takes place around the beginning of DS9 season 7, so the Enterprise about to piss off on a months long archaeological expedition is comical. E: 
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Apr 2, 2015 10:23
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Mogomra posted:You're right, it's an exceptional example of how bad Voyager is. Tuvix was a good episode, but the show fell down by not including it as one of the charges in Janeway's post-homecoming court martial for her many, many crimes. Well, the transporter combining the DNA of Neelix and Tuvok's clothes didn't make sense, but it was established back in TOS that "the transporter is magic and gently caress you don't ask questions". ultrabindu posted:Insurrection takes place around the beginning of DS9 season 7, so the Enterprise about to piss off on a months long archaeological expedition is comical. The TNG movies were not supposed to depend in any way on the audience knowing stuff about DS9. If people hear they're not going to understand a movie without going and watching 6 seasons of another TV show, they're not going to buy a ticket. The in-universe explanation I assume is that Insurrection happened during the same lull in the war when the DS9 crew hosed off from the campaign and played baseball
VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 10:50 on Apr 2, 2015 |
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Apr 2, 2015 10:42
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If these movies and shows were being made today there would be all kinds of intra-brand synergy or whatever the gently caress like what Marvel is doing and we'd all be lamenting why DS9 and TNG can't just stand on their own instead of being used to set up the Ensign Sito Jaxa film trilogy and Morn: Origins
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Apr 2, 2015 10:57
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