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I've only played Terra Mystica of the two and greatly enjoyed each play (around 7-8 I think), mostly with 3-4 players. The races and various setup randomizations make each game feel different - not like Dominion, maybe more like Fischer random chess. Those plays are spread out as we have a few regulars who dislike it and the numbers/times/cultofthenew often suggest playing other things. I don't know how likely burnout would be if you played it weekly but I think you could do that for some time, there's a lot there. If you're going to get both TM and Kemet anyway, just flip a coin. e: Is there anywhere to get the purple power discs for Terra Mystica? I've looked around a few component shops like printplaygames.com and not seen them, it's a bit inconvenient not having one set for each colour set. One of the few times when I want to fix a game I don't even own myself! rchandra fucked around with this message at 08:52 on Apr 2, 2015 |
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Apr 2, 2015 08:38
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Rutibex posted:I think it is also worth noting that Terra Mystica is 5lb, making it $11.10/lb. Kemet is 4.5lb, making it $10.88/lb, the better deal over all. Now on Kickstarter, Terra Mystica "Overweight Edition". All playing pieces made of gorgeously machined depleted uranium, osmium and iridium, all beautifully presented in a lead-lined box! I'm going to put Cosmic Encounter up for sale next week, which will leave room in my collection for Kemet that I received yesterday. Guy A. Person posted:This is why Hinterlands is still my favorite set. It is as polished as the later sets but still simple and the "on gain" mechanic isn't as crazy while still being a super versatile idea. Also it has a ton of cool interactive stuff. It makes sense because at one point it was going to be a standalone Hinterlands is the only Dominion expansion I have at the moment and I'm not getting bored of it anytime soon. It's a really good expansion. Zveroboy fucked around with this message at 08:47 on Apr 2, 2015 |
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Apr 2, 2015 08:44
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Kai Tave posted:I'll say this, I've played Kemet like six times by now and I could easily see myself playing it five times that much and not getting tired of it anytime soon. This last game I played was the first time anyone bought any of the power tiles that give you bonus actions on your turn and it opened up whole new strategies while I've got a brand new plan in mind for the next game that I want to try out that's completely unrelated. It's a legit good game and there's an expansion coming out that looks like it'll be pretty sweet too, it gets my recommendation. Kemet's big weak spot is the endgame, since it can get quite political. I wonder whether a houserule of "if the winner is solely decided by whom the player in 3rd place doesn't attack, then the winner is determined immediately" would help.
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Apr 2, 2015 14:07
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Is there a dudes-on-the-map 3+ player game that doesn't get political in the end game?homullus posted:Kemet's big weak spot is the endgame, since it can get quite political. I wonder whether a houserule of "if the winner is solely decided by whom the player in 3rd place doesn't attack, then the winner is determined immediately" would help. Puzzle Strike has a workaround a bit like this (you can't hurt people if you would lose this turn) but it's based on the end game condition being the first person to 'lose' rather than the first person to 'win' like Kemet. Kingmaking can still happen but it's generally less optimal and gives the 'victim' at least some potential for agency. Tash-Kalar's deathmatch system is also cool, you get points only in the colour of players you hurt and it's your lowest score that matters at the end of the game. I haven't played it enough to know if this really gets rid of end game politics though, I suspect it doesn't always avoid kingmaking. Bubble-T fucked around with this message at 14:55 on Apr 2, 2015 |
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Apr 2, 2015 14:50
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homullus posted:Kemet's big weak spot is the endgame, since it can get quite political. I wonder whether a houserule of "if the winner is solely decided by whom the player in 3rd place doesn't attack, then the winner is determined immediately" would help. I feel Kemet's big weak spot is how AP-inducing it can get. Except for the divine intervention cards, it's a completely luckless game where you can choose between literally dozens of options on every single turn, each of which will heavily influence your future turns. That's a recipe to slow down to a crawl, and you need a special group for that not to be a problem.
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Apr 2, 2015 15:03
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Hidden information might be an interesting inclusion to dudes on a map games in order to reduce targeted king making. If it becomes harder to tell who is actually winning, the focus should be on one's own individual score and less about the opponent with the most points. Incidental king making would still happen but that can happen in relatively solitaire games like Agricola, 7 Wonders, Dominion, etc so that's going to be hard to get away from in any multiplayer game. Maybe hidden goals a la Suburbia/Argent would be interesting in a game like this. Massive point salads also seem to be a subtle (and sometimes messy) way of making it less clear who is winning. Additionally, hidden goals might take some of the sting off of those moments when it feels like someone just attacked you arbitrarily without reasoning behind it; now you would always have to assume that it was due to their goal. Edit: also, Chaos in the Old World feels slightly less political puzzle game at the end, at least at the level of experience I have with both games. A little more hidden information in the impact of the cards and the final turn resolution helps I think fozzy fosbourne fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Apr 2, 2015 |
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Apr 2, 2015 15:22
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Welp 
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Apr 2, 2015 15:33
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I love Chancellor, so Messenger is my new favorite way to curse people.
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Apr 2, 2015 15:40
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fozzy fosbourne posted:Hidden information might be an interesting inclusion to dudes on a map games in order to reduce targeted king making. If it becomes harder to tell who is actually winning, the focus should be on one's own individual score and less about the opponent with the most points. Incidental king making would still happen but that can happen in relatively solitaire games like Agricola, 7 Wonders, Dominion, etc so that's going to be hard to get away from in any multiplayer game. Hidden VP bonuses at endgame would be nice in Kemet. One card for each temple + Sanctuary of All Gods, maybe +2 VP if you hold it at the end of the game. It would have a picture of the temple in question, for clarity, and be keyed so that the right cards get used for the right number of players. I think that leaves more cards than people per game, so you would never have perfect information, and it could snatch a defeat from the jaws of victory for somebody.  OK I totally want to try this out now.
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Apr 2, 2015 15:43
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taser rates posted:Welp Trade is such a massive boost to any sort of Smithy-BM type of deck, it'll be hard to justify anything else when its on the board. Expedition also is great for that late-game gas. It's weird to see so many cards that seem to push BM so hard.
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Apr 2, 2015 15:47
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taser rates posted:Welp The art for Expedition is  as gently caress. I want it as a wallpaper.
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Apr 2, 2015 15:48
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Yeah, at a glance, Trade seems like it would be degenerate in a lot of kingdoms. These events can be used in addition to a terminal action, right? Since they trigger off of a buy?
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Apr 2, 2015 15:51
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Are the Events something everyone can use? Something you can only use when you've bought it the first time? How the gently caress is the one that starts 'if the previous turn wasn't yours' supposed to work? What is this I don't even
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Apr 2, 2015 15:54
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thespaceinvader posted:Are the Events something everyone can use? Something you can only use when you've bought it the first time? Calm down and read this guy, straight from DMX himself! http://dominionstrategy.com/2015/04/02/adventures-previews-4-expedition-trade-mission/
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Apr 2, 2015 15:56
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thespaceinvader posted:How the gently caress is the one that starts 'if the previous turn wasn't yours' supposed to work? Keeps you from using this card to take ten turns in a row.
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Apr 2, 2015 15:58
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fozzy fosbourne posted:Calm down and read this guy, straight from DMX himself! Quite ingenious, and it explains why they're sideways.
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Apr 2, 2015 16:00
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fozzy fosbourne posted:Calm down and read this guy, straight from DMX himself! I quite like his writing style.
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Apr 2, 2015 16:01
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Also, are we getting 20 unique events????  E: some of these events might be cool for enabling kingdom victory cards with a light touch fozzy fosbourne fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Apr 2, 2015 |
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Apr 2, 2015 16:04
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PerniciousKnid posted:Keeps you from using this card to take ten turns in a row. Oooooooh, I see. I was reading it as 'the previous turn' being the one on which it was bought, and couldn't work out how it would ever do anything. But 'the previous turn' is the turn of the player before you on the turn you buy it, so you then get an extra turn. Gotcha. They do seem interesting, but as previously noted, my group has basically stopped playing Dominion D:
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Apr 2, 2015 16:10
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thespaceinvader posted:They do seem interesting, but as previously noted, my group has basically stopped playing Dominion D: Perhaps the excitement of a new expansion will lure them back in?
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Apr 2, 2015 16:11
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Trade is insane if you happen to get a hand of Estate-Estate-Copper-Silver-[Smithy/Militia/anything that gives $2] turn 3. Even if you can't it's still very, very good. Apparently you can buy Events during the extra turn from Mission, because buying an Event doesn't count as buying a card. Does that mean Bridge effects won't reduce the cost of Events?
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Apr 2, 2015 16:17
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Lottery of Babylon posted:Does that mean Bridge effects won't reduce the cost of Events? DXV explicitly says that in the preview.
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Apr 2, 2015 16:18
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fozzy fosbourne posted:Yeah, at a glance, Trade seems like it would be degenerate in a lot of kingdoms. These events can be used in addition to a terminal action, right? Since they trigger off of a buy? Yeah events are something you straight up buy during your buy phase, so they don't cost any actions or whatever, they are just an effect that happens immediately. So Trade does not seem all that overpowered because remember you have to spend $5 during your buy phase and then trash from your hand, meaning at minimum you would need 2 silvers and a copper to trash the other 2 cards in your hand. So it's not something that is going to enable heavy trashing from the get-go.
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Apr 2, 2015 16:18
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Lottery of Babylon posted:Trade is insane if you happen to get a hand of Estate-Estate-Copper-Silver-[Smithy/Militia/anything that gives $2] turn 3. Even if you can't it's still very, very good. Yeah DMX cites bridge as another example in that post
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Apr 2, 2015 16:18
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Toshimo posted:DXV explicitly says that in the preview. So he does. Nevermind, I'm illiterate
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Apr 2, 2015 16:19
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jivjov posted:Perhaps the excitement of a new expansion will lure them back in? Doubtful given that our main game owner has sworn off buying new stuff for a while as he's moving house. I wonder when his birthday is.
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Apr 2, 2015 16:29
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Late to the Terra Mystica and Kemet buying thing but having played recently I think it's important to mention that Terra Mystica has competition but no combat. Once you put something down, other players cannot remove it. It's sort of like gold rush land-grabbing, but no claim-jumping. Might affect which you buy first for ~reasons~ 
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Apr 2, 2015 16:40
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Did DX say that victory point tokens were back? Because that seems like a natural synergy with Mission, but only Intrigue generates them (and those get less and less likely with each expansion if you're playing with the full set).
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Apr 2, 2015 16:40
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sector_corrector posted:Did DX say that victory point tokens were back? Because that seems like a natural synergy with Mission, but only Intrigue generates them (and those get less and less likely with each expansion if you're playing with the full set). Point tokens were from Prosperity.
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Apr 2, 2015 16:47
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sector_corrector posted:Did DX say that victory point tokens were back? Because that seems like a natural synergy with Mission, but only Intrigue generates them (and those get less and less likely with each expansion if you're playing with the full set). Unlikely, since he keeps mechanics self-contained to each expansion, though he seems to have made an exception to that for durations. But hey, you can just combine it with Prosperity cards anyways.
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Apr 2, 2015 16:52
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homullus posted:Kemet's big weak spot is the endgame, since it can get quite political. I wonder whether a houserule of "if the winner is solely decided by whom the player in 3rd place doesn't attack, then the winner is determined immediately" would help. The last game of Kemet I played was like that. Me and the leader both had 7 VP going into the last day. He acted before me, winning a battle and capturing a temple to hit 9 VP with a tenth due at sundown because he controlled two. He also had two more battle VP than I did, so I couldn't just do what he did as we'd both have ended on 9 VP and he'd have won the tie. I did, however, have a silver token and both my Move actions open. This allowed me to wait until my last action to teleport my Scorpion troop to a temple, win the battle, then play the DI card that lets you ignore walls to move into his city and capture an undefended level 4 pyramid. That would swing it to 10 vs 8 and I would win. The spanner in the works was that another player had Cancel in hand. Nobody else had Moves and PPs left, so this put them in the kingmaker role. If they cancelled my DI card, the other guy won; if they didn't, I did. In the end they chose not to cancel and I won. The problem I have with your house rule is that it would have negated both the third player's choice and my tactical play. As soon as it became obvious that I would take over the lead unless stopped, if someone could stop me then I would automatically lose.
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Apr 2, 2015 16:58
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Jedit posted:The last game of Kemet I played was like that. Me and the leader both had 7 VP going into the last day. He acted before me, winning a battle and capturing a temple to hit 9 VP with a tenth due at sundown because he controlled two. Good play you had but fyi this was false, at least in terms of winning that turn. The night phase happens before the day phase, but winner eligibility is checked at the end of the day phase. So you can only win if you have the 8/10 VP at the end of the day phase, no sacrifices, no double temple VP.
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Apr 2, 2015 17:04
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Jedit posted:
I think your automatically losing at that point is preferable to having player three enduring the politicking around which of the two not-him players should win. But I like the hidden swing VP houserule better anyway, as it takes some certainty from that decision.
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Apr 2, 2015 17:06
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taser rates posted:Unlikely, since he keeps mechanics self-contained to each expansion In principle yes, but in practice not always, even if you don't count the new Durations outside of Seaside. We've seen when-gain effects outside of Hinterlands (Mint), hybrid Victory cards outside of Intrigue (Island), cards with choices outside of Intrigue (Count), treasures that do things outside of Prosperity (Horn of Plenty), and terrible card ideas outside of Alchemy (Rebuild). sector_corrector posted:Did DX say that victory point tokens were back? I haven't seen him comment on VP tokens specifically, but the description of Dominion Adventures says it includes 60 tokens. We haven't seen what those tokens are yet, and it's not inconceivable that some of them are VP tokens. For comparison, Prosperity included 31 VP tokens and 8 coin tokens, Guilds included 25 coin tokens, and Seaside included 15 Embargo tokens and 25 coin tokens, so this is the most tokenful expansion to date.
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Apr 2, 2015 17:07
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Chomp8645 posted:Good play you had but fyi this was false, at least in terms of winning that turn. The night phase happens before the day phase, but winner eligibility is checked at the end of the day phase. So you can only win if you have the 8/10 VP at the end of the day phase, no sacrifices, no double temple VP. Sorry, but you're mistaken. Sanctuary sacrifices and temple control VP are given out during the Day phase after actions are complete. homullus posted:I think your automatically losing at that point is preferable to having player three enduring the politicking around which of the two not-him players should win. But I like the hidden swing VP houserule better anyway, as it takes some certainty from that decision. You missed the point. Kemet is balanced around giving the player in last place more opportunities to catch up - that's why games are usually so close. Your rule doesn't just remove that advantage, it reverses it. The player in last either has to act early and be vulnerable to several other players all of whom are in a better position to win outright, or act late and face the possibility that anyone who could stop them winning is effectively forced to do so. Jedit fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Apr 2, 2015 |
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Apr 2, 2015 17:12
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Jedit posted:Sorry, but you're mistaken. Sanctuary sacrifices and temple control VP are given out during the Day phase after actions are complete. Well gosh durnit now I gotta bust out the manual and verify. e: holy crapola you're right. Don't know why I thought it was night phase but the wording is "after all players have finished their actions". Meme Poker Party fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Apr 2, 2015 |
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Apr 2, 2015 17:14
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quote:The spanner in the works was that another player had Cancel in hand. I do wish game designers would quit putting Counterspells in multiplayer games. It's an easy idea to come up with when you're making cards, but it makes for some of the least satisfying interactions imaginable.
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Apr 2, 2015 17:18
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Chomp8645 posted:Well gosh durnit now I gotta bust out the manual and verify. It's also in the description of the turn cycle. Kemet rulebook posted:Night (Preparation phase) I think what threw you is that you gain PPs from temple control at the end of the Day phase and your regular PPs at the start of the Night phase. It's natural to roll all PP gain into a single action, especially when the power tiles that give PPs also happen at Night. And as you get Sanctuary and control VPs at the same time as temple PPs, the logical thought is that must it all happen at Night.
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Apr 2, 2015 17:32
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Lottery of Babylon posted:In principle yes, but in practice not always, even if you don't count the new Durations outside of Seaside. We've seen when-gain effects outside of Hinterlands (Mint), hybrid Victory cards outside of Intrigue (Island), cards with choices outside of Intrigue (Count), treasures that do things outside of Prosperity (Horn of Plenty), and terrible card ideas outside of Alchemy (Rebuild). Haha yea, fair point. I was thinking token usage specifically, which is technically true even with coin tokens I think. Tomorrow's preview should be about tokens though, so I guess we'll see what those are about.
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Apr 2, 2015 17:37
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My group realized last weekend that we really like Shopping as a mechanic in games. We like Dominion, we like buying the power tiles in Kemet, buying technologies in Eminent Domain, buying from the market in Suburbia, the items in between rounds of Arcadia Quest, etc. "Shopping" is kind of broad and could be used to describe a number of vaguely similar mechanics, but the shopping in these games is more appealing than in games where we draft from a pool that changes from turn to turn (7 Wonders, Agricola). Especially if drafting has an equal cost associated with each. Games where you "shop" from your own hand (Race, GtR) sort of fall somewhere in the middle. I think the pleasure might be in that pavlovian bargain hunting instinct instilled in us by our parents. Any other renowned games that feature a strong shopping element out there? Does what I'm trying to categorize here even make sense? fozzy fosbourne fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Apr 2, 2015 |
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Apr 2, 2015 18:15
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