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So can we get some lore discussion going with what is going on during the game and with the different endings? It seems like there's a few different theories for the story in the game. Zombies' Downfall posted an explanation a few pages back about how the point of the game is to eliminate the source of the curse, killing the baby guarded by Mergo's wet nurse and return Yharnam back to its normal state. Based on the dialogue from Gehrman and the other endings (basically got the 'true' ending, then looked up what happens in the others), I think that there's more going on. A lot of the lore comes from the items in the game, but some also comes from some of the trophies. We get a ton of lore about Gehrman being the first hunter, and when we arrive at the abandoned workshop the trophy says that it inspired the hunter's dream. Inside we see an umbilical cord, presumably from Gehrman's first hunt. Presumably, Gehrman killed an infant great one in the first hunt but did not consume the cord and could not resist the Moon Presence who then uses him to train further hunters. The current hunt is just the first in an innumerable cycle that is basically a power struggle between the Great Ones. Essentially the moon presence is using the Hunters to fight the other great ones for it (and kill their offspring), with Gehrman curating the dream to guide new hunters toward this goal, then eliminate them when the task is done. It would certainly fit a lot of other themes in the Souls games, most notably the idea that the current existence is just once of many cycles. There are a few questions I have though, regarding Mensis and Mergo. Is Mergo one of the Great One's that reproduced with Mensis? One of the items (don't remember which) mentions that Mensis retrieved it fromt he dream, suggesting Mensis is human. Alternatively, Mensis could be the woman in white, which would make sense given her Nightmare is punctuated by her appearance immediately after the stillbirth of her child, any mother's nightmare.Perhaps she was a member of the church who used the church and choir to attempt to reproduce with Oedon or another great one? There is plenty of evidence that great ones have a habit of conceiving by human women (Iosefka and the Whore). TLDR: The moon presence uses hunters to commit infanticide against other great ones' offspring, precipitating a Hunt when he needs hunters to come out of the woodwork. In the end the player character can choose to let the cycle continue (either waking from the hunt, or taking Gehrman's place and curating the dream), or with the Insight he has gained by consuming the cord (and blood from the Great Ones), challenge the moon presence and take its place
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Apr 3, 2015 22:11
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Smornstein posted:Any goons mind helping me beat Rom i'm level 54 and right outside the boss room. I can do it, LASERTAG?
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Apr 3, 2015 22:12
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Smornstein posted:Any goons mind helping me beat Rom i'm level 54 and right outside the boss room. I found this works very well: Get Tonitrus Upgrade to +6 (higher if you have the parts) Hit L1 and go to town on the boss Laugh
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Apr 3, 2015 22:12
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Pikey posted:So can we get some lore discussion going with what is going on during the game and with the different endings? We have been discussing the lore the whole thread, welcome to the party  Pikey posted:It seems like there's a few different theories for the story in the game. Zombies' Downfall posted an explanation a few pages back about how the point of the game is to eliminate the source of the curse, killing the baby guarded by Mergo's wet nurse and return Yharnam back to its normal state. Based on the dialogue from Gehrman and the other endings (basically got the 'true' ending, then looked up what happens in the others), I think that there's more going on. Did DeS involve cycles? I know DS1 and DS2 did, but I think DeS was not as much of a cycle, and I feel like Bloodborne more closely matches DeS story than DS. Other than the Umbasa link which was apparently taken out, DeS is about a stranger wandering into a land that's hosed because people messed with the old gods and let them loose, breaking a seal. Bloodborne is very similar. DS1&2 however, you're not a far away stranger as much as somebody from this land who dies and becomes hallowed. I haven't beaten DeS yet though so I'm probably wrong about that, I don't know the exact endings. I believe the woman in white is Yharnam. Who Yharnam the lady is though... some Pthumerian Queen apparently. The original people that discovered the old ones. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Apr 3, 2015 |
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Apr 3, 2015 22:14
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Smornstein posted:Any goons mind helping me beat Rom i'm level 54 and right outside the boss room. threeagainstfour posted:I just want to say that you've come a long way from being unable to defeat Cleric Beast. Now you're giving out protips on beating one of the more annoying bosses in the game! Day one info on the cleric beast was some patronizing poo poo. "if he freaks out just wait him out and he calms down again" nope " you'll beat him easy" nope. Did not help that everyone on skype was like "come on man we want to do multiplayer hurry up" it was just a perfect storm of not knowing things, impatience, and a boss that was designed to punish dark souls mentality.
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Apr 3, 2015 22:14
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threeagainstfour posted:I just want to say that you've come a long way from being unable to defeat Cleric Beast. Now you're giving out protips on beating one of the more annoying bosses in the game! Yeah but phase 1 is easy-peasy. Phase 2 is when the fight goes to crazy town and you want to tear out your hair.
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Apr 3, 2015 22:15
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bloodychill posted:Yeah but phase 1 is easy-peasy. Phase 2 is when the fight goes to crazy town and you want to tear out your hair. Phase two is easy as hell just don't get hit. The timing on his superman thing is the same every time. Bullets don't work on him but they do on his swords. You can even afford two or three swings on him after he picks a direction and commits to attacking. Also if you do get hit, that second hit is timed to hit you exactly after the fastest possible roll. Just don't panic and you can get out of it. I panic a lot but it's cool that since everyone rolls the same they could time that so nicely.
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Apr 3, 2015 22:17
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Pikey posted:So can we get some lore discussion going with what is going on during the game and with the different endings? The woman in white is Yarnham, the ancient Phtumeru Queen, her baby is a child of the blood, a great one baby, like Arianna's or Iosefka's. I assume Mergo is its name. The Phtumeru were a race of predecessor humans who were the first to contact the Great Ones I believe
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Apr 3, 2015 22:18
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Replaying Cleric Beast on my alt, you can really just sit behind him and you're kinda free to beat on him and he won't do much about it. You can stun him pretty easy too and just keep beating on him. The only thing is when he moves or jumps you gotta roll to stay behind him. Trying to fight him in front or shoot him or run away just makes it hard. Although to be fair you can do the same exact thing to make Margo's wet nurse super easy too. Kurtofan posted:The woman in white is Yarnham, the ancient Phtumeru Queen, her baby is a child of the blood, a great one baby, like Arianna's or Iosefka's. I assume Mergo is its name. The Phtumeru were a race of predecessor humans who were the first to contact the Great Ones I believe Yup.
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Apr 3, 2015 22:19
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how do you best avoid micolash's dumb laser spam attack
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Apr 3, 2015 22:19
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Zaphod42 posted:We have been discussing the lore the whole thread, welcome to the party Demon's Souls is a cycle. Every once in a while some dipshit awakens the Old One and poo poo gets hosed up.
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Apr 3, 2015 22:19
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Am I way over-leveled at 78 for Ebrietas? Can't find anybody to help, and I'm getting pretty sick of this fight.
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Apr 3, 2015 22:19
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Zaphod42 posted:Replaying Cleric Beast on my alt, you can really just sit behind him and you're kinda free to beat on him and he won't do much about it. You can stun him pretty easy too and just keep beating on him. The only thing is when he moves or jumps you gotta roll to stay behind him. Trying to fight him in front or shoot him or run away just makes it hard. paarl is the boss that teaches you everything you need to know to make all other bosses easy
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Apr 3, 2015 22:20
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Genocyber posted:Demon's Souls is a cycle. Every once in a while some dipshit awakens the Old One and poo poo gets hosed up. Yeah okay, I wasn't sure but now that you say it I do remember some stuff like that. So I guess they're all cycles. Control Volume posted:paarl is the boss that teaches you everything you need to know to make all other bosses easy Everything I know I learned from Asylum Demon. Poke it in the butt!
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Apr 3, 2015 22:20
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Cake Attack posted:how do you best avoid micolash's dumb laser spam attack hit him to stop it from happening or roll under it when he does it
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Apr 3, 2015 22:21
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Pikey posted:So can we get some lore discussion going with what is going on during the game and with the different endings? I thought Ludwig was the first hunter.
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Apr 3, 2015 22:21
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i cant find teh pvp
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Apr 3, 2015 22:21
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THE PENETRATOR posted:i cant find teh pvp Try doing it in Nightmare of Mensis. Canon is amazingly fun and I'm never going to get past Mensis because all I wanna do is canon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK3DOJd2nqI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiRGi2RpORE
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Apr 3, 2015 22:24
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Scrub-Niggurath posted:I thought Ludwig was the first hunter. I also think this, and the term of Gehrman, The First Hunter probably means as First of the hunters, as in leader.
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Apr 3, 2015 22:25
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lets hang out posted:hit him to stop it from happening or roll under it when he does it i could rarely stop him from doing it but i just kitted myself out in the choir gear and had enough arcane defense to just charge attack him and eat a blast to the face whenever he did it
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Apr 3, 2015 22:25
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i aint there yet ... just lazily drifting thru chalices... using the short root to try and get a guy in a sinister... there is nobody
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Apr 3, 2015 22:25
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The Yellow King posted:Am I way over-leveled at 78 for Ebrietas? Can't find anybody to help, and I'm getting pretty sick of this fight. Stay directly behind her and attack with quick attacks. All fight. Use potions if necessary. She's a boss that can be really easy if you just luck out a bit or really hard if you aren't aggressive enough. edit: if she drops for a bit or starts charging bullshit attacks, use a charge attack on her. bloodychill fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Apr 3, 2015 |
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Apr 3, 2015 22:25
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Does anyone know exactly where you can find the Arcane Haze Extractor? I've heard it's in lower Pthumeru but I must have missed it when I went through.
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Apr 3, 2015 22:26
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Scrub-Niggurath posted:I thought Ludwig was the first hunter. From what I can tell, Ludwig was the first of the Healing Church's hunters, but that doesn't necessarily mean he was the first hunter. I could be misinterpreting, though.
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Apr 3, 2015 22:26
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Feels good to one-shot a boss.
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Apr 3, 2015 22:27
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Gringo Heisenberg posted:Try doing it in Nightmare of Mensis. Or Nightmare Frontier, that place is invasion central. Hahahaha, make the bad man fly! That's amazing 
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Apr 3, 2015 22:27
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Haha, gently caress you Rom you loving little shitweasel! Jesus Christ, how many tries? Hardest boss so far for me and I managed to beat Amelia on the first go.
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Apr 3, 2015 22:28
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The Moon Monster posted:Does anyone know exactly where you can find the Arcane Haze Extractor? I've heard it's in lower Pthumeru but I must have missed it when I went through. i'm pretty sure you either get it on the 3rd floor boss (out of 4 floors) but it might be down one of the side routes after the locked door but before the boss door,
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Apr 3, 2015 22:28
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Cake Attack posted:how do you best avoid micolash's dumb laser spam attack go to town on his rear end. I heard shooting him in the face works as well.
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Apr 3, 2015 22:29
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Haha I just did my first Chalice and got to the boss or whatever I guess and before I even had the door open the Undead Giant leaped on me and killed me. 
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Apr 3, 2015 22:29
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How do you unlock the Messengers in Lower Hintertomb Layer3? I'm looking everywhere and I can't find the Messenger guys who are supposed to appear to sell me the Sinister Hintertomb Chalice. What did I miss?
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Apr 3, 2015 22:29
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I just started doing the chalice dungeons and it's amazing. My only complaint, and you could hardly call it that, is that the areas seem a lot more open (and dark!) so it's fairly easy to get surrounded and murdered if you're not careful about enemy positioning. Also: walk into a random room and BAM! Undead Giant in your face! Jesus Christ. 
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Apr 3, 2015 22:30
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I would like someone having trouble with Rom to please upload a video of their attempts. I found him to be the least aggressive boss in the game with a single move to dodge and want to understand what people are seeing. I wonder if it's because of playstyles? I basically went full rushdown on every boss and had no trouble with most of them, while I could see how things like Paarl can wreck you if you play it defensively.
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Apr 3, 2015 22:32
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I kept reading in this thread about Eileen and never found her in my game. I went back to the Vicar boss fight area where the wiki said she'd be (I think the last boss I beat was TOR) and there's nobody there. I kind of require her mask now that I've seen it, am I hosed? Also please tell me there is a faster way to get to Amygdala than going through that poison lake
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Apr 3, 2015 22:32
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Chalice Info Dump of poo poo I didn't know that goons may want to know: (maybe put in the OP) Chalice dungeon unlock flowchart:  Depth refers to difficulty. The first depth is extremely easy, but depth 4 is harder than the end of NG and depth 5 is like NG+ Q: What are Fetid, Rotted, Cursed, and Sinister Rites? A: Fetid, Rotted, Cursed, and Sinister Rites can be applied to Dungeons to increase their difficulty and rewards. Fetid offerings empower creatures that are already in the instance by giving them a damage buff. Rotted offerings introduce new creatures to the dungeon and raise the possibility of traps. Cursed dungeons cut your HP in half while in the Dungeon and all gems that drop will be Cursed gems. Sinister Dungeons allow others to invade your dungeon. Each of these appears to improve the Quality Level and Drop Rate of gems. Until many more dungeons are added to the list or until revealed by an official guide, we will not know all of their benefits. It should be noted that Cursed Gems with the right stat lines are the best gems in the game and can exponentially increase your character’s power. Q: What types of gems drop in the different Dungeons? Pthumeru - Radial Gems Loran - Crescent Gems Isz - Triangle Gems Once you have made a chalice type once, you can enter other people's chalices of the same type without having to spend resource materials. Chalice difficulty is not changed by going from NG to NG+, it is independent and based on depth and the rites performed. In theory you can co-op or invade in chalices if you're in the same exact chalice, although it seems there are fewer people available right now than the normal game and so it is even harder to find co-op help or people to invade.
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Apr 3, 2015 22:33
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nuru posted:I would like someone having trouble with Rom to please upload a video of their attempts. I found him to be the least aggressive boss in the game with a single move to dodge and want to understand what people are seeing. I would imagine it's the arcane artillery. That was the most pain in the rear end part of the fight for me since it wasn't immediately obvious how best to dodge it and occasionally hard to manage the range to keep him from doing it.
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Apr 3, 2015 22:34
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Sharzak posted:I kept reading in this thread about Eileen and never found her in my game. I went back to the Vicar boss fight area where the wiki said she'd be (I think the last boss I beat was TOR) and there's nobody there. I kind of require her mask now that I've seen it, am I hosed? Did you meet her in the area above the sewers in Central Yharnam? You have to meet her there first (probably before fighting either Vicar Amelia or Shadows of Yharnam, not sure) before she shows up anywhere else.
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Apr 3, 2015 22:34
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bloodychill posted:I would imagine it's the arcane artillery. That was the most pain in the rear end part of the fight for me since it wasn't immediately obvious how best to dodge it and occasionally hard to manage the range to keep him from doing it. Doesn't it always go right to left? it also seemed like he fired it basically on a timer. Stab spider, dodge left, go back to stabbing spiders, etc?
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Apr 3, 2015 22:35
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nuru posted:Doesn't it always go right to left? it also seemed like he fired it basically on a timer. Stab spider, dodge left, go back to stabbing spiders, etc? Yeah, that's more or less it. I think people get freaked out by his minions though too since they can 1 hit or if you're not careful.
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Apr 3, 2015 22:36
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nuru posted:I would like someone having trouble with Rom to please upload a video of their attempts. I found him to be the least aggressive boss in the game with a single move to dodge and want to understand what people are seeing. He has 3 moves but its really just the one magic missile attack which gets people. It very very easily one-shots you if you don't have high arcane resist or massive HP or time your dodge/run properly. But otherwise he is a pretty average difficulty boss. I guess his style just doesn't jive with some people's natural approach.
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Apr 3, 2015 22:36
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