Let's Read: "Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality"

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Seraphic Neoman: Jul 19, 2011

If it was just a dumb prank, whatever. But the way he tried to justify it with this bullshit:

quote:

"- and after we were done giving him all the sweets I'd bought, we were like, 'Let's give him some money! Ha ha ha! Have some Knuts, boy! Have a silver Sickle!' and dancing around him and laughing evilly and so on. I think there were some people in the crowd who wanted to interfere at first, but bystander apathy held them off at least until they saw what we were doing, and then I think they were all too confused to do anything. Finally he said in this tiny little whisper 'go away' so the three of us all screamed and ran off, shrieking something about the light burning us. Hopefully he won't be as scared of being bullied in the future. That's called desensitisation therapy, by the way."

"I think the word you're looking for is enjoyable, and in any case you're asking the wrong question. The question is, did it do more good than harm, or more harm than good? If you have any arguments to contribute to that question I'm glad to hear them, but I won't entertain any other criticisms until that one is settled. I certainly agree that what I did looks all terrible and bullying and mean, since it involves a scared little boy and so on, but that's hardly the key issue now is it? That's called consequentialism, by the way, it means that whether an act is right or wrong isn't determined by whether it looks bad, or mean, or anything like that, the only question is how it will turn out in the end - what are the consequences."

Just get hosed Yudkowsky. Seriously someone please tell me he gets punched in the face.

# ? Mar 30, 2015 19:51

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# ? May 17, 2024 20:58

anilEhilated: Feb 17, 2014; But I say fuck the rain.; Grimey Drawer

His SCIENCE book list is rather curious. GEB is obviously great but it's more of a generalist, popular thing and the Kahneman/Tversky study on heuristics comes from 1982; if that's his go-to book on psychology, it's a pretty interesting choice.

edit: No, that's not how desensivization works.

# ? Mar 30, 2015 19:58

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

By happy coincidence this article popped up today and it seems relevant to this thread/Yuddy

Utilitarianism vs psychopathy

Basically there is a paper out in the peer reviewed cognitive science journal Cognition that takes apart the kind of "utilitarian sacrificial moral dilemmas" Yuddy and his cult likes as being psychopathic rather than utilitarian or altruistic.

# ? Mar 30, 2015 20:17

SolTerrasa: Sep 2, 2011

anilEhilated posted:

His SCIENCE book list is rather curious. GEB is obviously great but it's more of a generalist, popular thing and the Kahneman/Tversky study on heuristics comes from 1982; if that's his go-to book on psychology, it's a pretty interesting choice.

edit: No, that's not how desensivization works.

Almost all of Yudkowsky's good work is a popularization of Kahneman with the serial numbers filed off, so it wouldn't surprise me if that was true.

E: you can see some of the "serial numbers filed off" effect in that frustrating tendency to rename things that already have names.

SolTerrasa fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Mar 30, 2015

# ? Mar 30, 2015 20:44

i81icu812: Dec 5, 2006

petrol blue posted:

I think Yud is referring to flooding, but who the hell knows with Yud.

Nah, the idea behind flooding is to keep going with the phobic stimulus till the patient's panic/adrenaline reaction has run its course and they are too tired to continue to respond. Theory being if you sit around not reacting to clowns or whatever because you're too tired to move for long enough you'll realize the phobia is irrational and clowns are actually harmless. Also does not work very well without patient consent.

i81icu812 fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Aug 30, 2015

# ? Mar 30, 2015 22:22

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

i81icu812 posted:

Nah, the idea behind flooding is to keep going with the phobic stimulus till the patient's panic/adrenaline reaction has run its course and they are too tired to continue to respond. Theory being after if you don't reacting to clowns or whatever because you're too tired to move for long enough you'll realize the phobia is irrational and clowns are actually harmless. Also does not work very well without patient consent.

God, I don't think I could handle that for my flying phobia.

# ? Mar 30, 2015 22:24

Loel: Jun 4, 2012; "For the Emperor."

There was a terrible noise.
There was a terrible silence.

Like, after the war I did slow escalation of getting used to my trigger (crowds and whatever).

Just throwing me in the mall on xmas is a terrible idea.

# ? Mar 30, 2015 22:46

i81icu812: Dec 5, 2006

SolTerrasa posted:

Almost all of Yudkowsky's good work is a popularization of Kahneman with the serial numbers filed off, so it wouldn't surprise me if that was true.

E: you can see some of the "serial numbers filed off" effect in that frustrating tendency to rename things that already have names.

With Yud there is a lot of 'serial numbers filed off'.

But not just renaming stuff--there's a lot more.

There's also using obscure terminology or spelling for the hell of it (Bayes's Theorem vs Bayes' Theorem, truth and beauty quarks vs top and bottom quarks). And then there's misusing technical terms with agreed definitions for something else entirely, like with desensitization therapy. And of course there's just plain wrong science (quantum Hamiltonian, faster than light signaling).

So far the majority of the scientific or technical terms have been wrong in one way or another.

i81icu812 fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Mar 30, 2015

# ? Mar 30, 2015 23:16

su3su2u1: Apr 23, 2014

i81icu812 posted:

With Yud there is a lot of 'serial numbers filed off'.

But not just renaming stuff--there's a lot more.

There's also using obscure terminology or spelling for the hell of it (Bayes's Theorem vs Bayes' Theorem, truth and beauty quarks vs top and bottom quarks). And then there's misusing technical terms with agreed definitions for something else entirely, like with desensitization therapy. And of course there's just plain wrong science (quantum Hamiltonian, faster than light signaling).

So far the majority of the scientific or technical terms have been wrong in one way or another.

I won't link to my full review again, but yes, I read the whole drat thing and I think there are probably less than 5 unambiguously correct technical references in the entire story. Out of several dozen.

# ? Mar 31, 2015 06:19

JosephWongKS: Apr 4, 2009; by Nyc_Tattoo

Chapter 9: Title Redacted, Part I

quote:

All your base are belong to J. K. Rowling.

________________________________________________

1,000 REVIEWS IN 26 DAYS WOOHOO AWESOME POWA! 30 DAYS 1,189 REVIEWS COMBO IS CONTINUING! YEAH! YOU PEOPLE ARE THE BEST! THIS IS SPARTAAAAA!

Ahem.

The third-generation quarks were also called "truth" and "beauty" before "top" and "bottom" won out; my birthdate is around Hermione's, and when I was eleven, I used "truth" and "beauty".

When Part I of this chapter was first posted, I said that if anyone guessed what the last sentence was talking about before the next update, I would tell them the entire rest of the plot.

________________________________________________

You never did know what tiny event might upset the course of your master plan.

________________________________________________

"Abbott, Hannah!"

Pause.

"HUFFLEPUFF!"

"Bones, Susan!"

Pause.

"HUFFLEPUFF!"

"Boot, Terry!"

Pause.

"RAVENCLAW!"

Harry glanced over briefly at his new House-mate, more to get a quick look at the face than anything else. He was still trying to get himself under control from his encounter with the ghosts. The sad, the really sad, the really truly sad thing was that he did seem to be getting himself under control again. It seemed ill-fitting. Like he should have taken at least a day. Maybe a whole lifetime. Maybe just never.

"Corner, Michael!"

Long pause.

"RAVENCLAW!"

At the lectern before the huge Head Table stood Professor McGonagall, looking sharp and looking sharply around, as she called out one name after another, though she had smiled only for Hermione and a few others. Behind her, in the tallest chair at the table - really more of a golden throne - sat a wizened and bespectacled ancient, with a silver-white beard that looked like it would go almost to the floor if it were visible, watching over the Sorting with a benevolent expression; as stereotypical in appearance as a Wise Old Man could possibly be, without actually being Oriental. (Though Harry had learned to be wary of stereotypical appearances from the first time he'd met Professor McGonagall and thought that she ought to cackle.) The ancient wizard had applauded every student Sorted, with an unwavering smile that somehow seemed freshly delighted for each.

Is there a stereotype that �wise old men� are supposed to be �Oriental�? Aren�t there plenty of �wise old men� in Western / European myth and literature, not least of which is Merlin, who was clearly the template on which Dumbledore was based and who was distinctly non-Oriental?

quote:

To the golden throne's left side was a man with sharp eyes and a dour face who had applauded no-one, and who somehow managed to be looking straight back at Harry every time Harry looked at him. Further to the left, the pale-faced man Harry had seen in the Leaky Cauldron, whose eyes darted around as though in panic at the surrounding crowd, and who seemed to occasionally jerk and twitch in his seat; for some reason Harry kept finding himself staring at him. To that man's left, a string of three older witches who didn't seem much interested in the students. Then to the right side of the tall golden chair, a round-faced middle-aged witch with a yellow hat, who had applauded every student except the Slytherins. A tiny man standing on his chair, with a poofy white beard, who had applauded every student, but smiled only upon the Ravenclaws. And on the farthest right, occupying the same space as three lesser beings, the mountainous entity who'd greeted them all after they'd disembarked from the train, naming himself Hagrid, Keeper of Keys and Grounds.

"Is the man standing on his chair the Head of Ravenclaw?" Harry whispered towards Hermione.

For once Hermione didn't answer this instantly; she was shifting constantly from side to side, staring at the Sorting Hat, and fidgeting so energetically that Harry thought her feet might be leaving the floor.

"Yes, he is," said one of the prefects who'd accompanied them, a young woman wearing the blue of Ravenclaw. Miss Clearwater, if Harry recalled correctly. Her voice was quiet, but conveyed a tinge of pride. "That is the Charms Professor of Hogwarts, Filius Flitwick, the most knowledgeable Charms Master alive, and a past Duelling Champion -"

"Why's he so short? " hissed a student whose name Harry didn't recall. "Is he a halfbreed? "

A chill glance from the young lady prefect. "The Professor does indeed have goblin ancestry -"

I don�t recall that from the books. Was that in the canon series?

# ? Mar 31, 2015 08:50

Darth Walrus: Feb 13, 2012

JosephWongKS posted:

Chapter 9: Title Redacted, Part I

Is there a stereotype that �wise old men� are supposed to be �Oriental�? Aren�t there plenty of �wise old men� in Western / European myth and literature, not least of which is Merlin, who was clearly the template on which Dumbledore was based and who was distinctly non-Oriental?

I don�t recall that from the books. Was that in the canon series?

Oriental is pretty... uhh... outdated terminology, too.

# ? Mar 31, 2015 08:54

JosephWongKS: Apr 4, 2009; by Nyc_Tattoo

Darth Walrus posted:

Oriental is pretty... uhh... outdated terminology, too.

Oh yeah, that too. I guess my racism detector was numbed after Eliezarry's earlier spiel about "blood of the Enlightenment" and the poor benighted places that didn't have it. Maybe Eliezer also used "Oriental" when he was eleven?

# ? Mar 31, 2015 09:03

Mikl: Nov 8, 2009; Vote shit sandwich or the shit sandwich gets it!

JosephWongKS posted:

I don�t recall that from the books. Was that in the canon series?

The bit about Flitwick? Not really. He's described as being really short, but him having a goblin ancestor was said by Rowling in an interview, so it's not mentioned in the books or the movies.

# ? Mar 31, 2015 09:12

NeoAnjou: Jul 22, 2010

JosephWongKS posted:

Oh yeah, that too. I guess my racism detector was numbed after Eliezarry's earlier spiel about "blood of the Enlightenment" and the poor benighted places that didn't have it. Maybe Eliezer also used "Oriental" when he was eleven?

I *think* (not being of South East Asian extraction) that it's not acquired the same offensive nature in the UK. But it's not a commonly used word - it definitely has an archaic feel or the Victorian times and 'Orientalism', the art movement.

Having said that, 'Oriental' doesn't feature in the Office of National Statistics list of census racial categories in England/Wales/Scotland/N. Ireland (see here), and most of the references in a quick Google search (for 'oriental offensive uk') seem to be people being confused as to whether it is offensive or not.

So it *may* be badly applied 'trying to be British'. Maybe.

# ? Mar 31, 2015 09:43

petrol blue: Feb 9, 2013; sugar and spice
and
ethanol slammers

Nah, it's dodgy as hell to use here, too. Mainly because of the sort of people who do use it.

# ? Mar 31, 2015 11:00

Alhazred: Feb 16, 2011

Added Space posted:

We know that vaccines will kill several children every year

Indeed:

# ? Mar 31, 2015 12:38

Stroth: Mar 31, 2007; All Problems Solved

JosephWongKS posted:

Is there a stereotype that �wise old men� are supposed to be �Oriental�?

Only if you're in a martial arts movie.

# ? Mar 31, 2015 13:31

Bobbin Threadbare: Jan 2, 2009; I'm looking for a flock of urbanmechs.

Really the stereotype is that Wise Old Men have to have big beards.

# ? Mar 31, 2015 16:02

anilEhilated: Feb 17, 2014; But I say fuck the rain.; Grimey Drawer

Or Fu Manchus. Depending on the alignment.

# ? Mar 31, 2015 16:29

Pavlov: Oct 21, 2012; I've long been fascinated with how the alt-right develops elaborate and obscure dog whistles to try to communicate their meaning without having to say it out loud
Stepan Andreyevich Bandera being the most prominent example of that

The only time 'oriental' seems appropriate these days is when talking about antiques. My grandmother had a very nice oriental rug in her house. Not sure if it was a real antique though.

# ? Mar 31, 2015 16:59

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

Or ramen. Have to distinguish the oriental from the beef from the chicken

Though I guess you could say blue, red, and orange

# ? Mar 31, 2015 17:11

Pavlov: Oct 21, 2012; I've long been fascinated with how the alt-right develops elaborate and obscure dog whistles to try to communicate their meaning without having to say it out loud
Stepan Andreyevich Bandera being the most prominent example of that

I room with a chinese guy, and he could never figure out what flavor oriental was trying to be.

# ? Mar 31, 2015 17:17

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

Pavlov posted:

I room with a chinese guy, and he could never figure out what flavor oriental was trying to be.

I think it was going for a soy sauce ramen kind of thing.

# ? Mar 31, 2015 19:18

i81icu812: Dec 5, 2006

Fried Chicken posted:

Or ramen. Have to distinguish the oriental from the beef from the chicken

Though I guess you could say blue, red, and orange

How do you make non-oriental ramen?

i81icu812 fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Apr 1, 2015

# ? Apr 1, 2015 02:22

Arc Hammer: Mar 4, 2013; Got any deathsticks?

i81icu812 posted:

How do you make non-oriental ramen?

Buy a pack of Mr Noodles?

# ? Apr 1, 2015 02:28

petrol blue: Feb 9, 2013; sugar and spice
and
ethanol slammers

The food of peak :effort:

, in every sense.

# ? Apr 1, 2015 02:54

i81icu812: Dec 5, 2006

su3su2u1 posted:

I won't link to my full review again, but yes, I read the whole drat thing and I think there are probably less than 5 unambiguously correct technical references in the entire story. Out of several dozen.

I'm bored. Let's count!

Chapter 1
No science

Chapter 2
Violated Conservation of Energy via cat transformation- No. Not necessarily violating conservation of energy. Could be a very heavy cat. Or the mass energy turned into some other non-mass energy that you can't see. Etc.
Conservation of energy implied by form of quantum Hamiltonian - No. Non energy conserving Hamiltonians can be computed just fine.
Rejecting [Conservation of energy] destroys unitarity - No. Non energy conserving Hamiltonians can still preserve unitarity.
and then [rejecting unitarity] you get FTL signalling - No. Faster than light signaling has nothing to do with this, as far as I can tell.

Chapter 3
Bystander effect- Yes and no. Defined and example of original study noted correctly. Application of bystander effect to nation states less than clear.

Chapter 4
Seigniorage - Yes. Defined.
Arbitrage - Yes. Defined with example
Fermi calculation - Yes. Defined with example

Chapter 5
Fundamental attribution error - Yes. Defined with example

Chapter 6
Natural language understanding - No. Bag does not demonstrate natural language understanding.
The planning fallacy - Yes and no. Defined correctly. Context example of McGonagall saying a first aid kit is unneeded is not actually an example of the planning fallacy, since no duration planning takes place.
Bayes's Theorem - Bayes' Theorem is the usual spelling for historical reasons.

Chapter 7
Naming schema - No. Not a schema.
Reciprocation theory - Yes. Defined with example

Chapter 8
Truth and beauty quarks - Top and bottom typically used
Positive bias - No. Example given but bizarre and inaccurate rename of confirmation bias
Bystander apathy - Yes. Previously defined in bystander effect discussion from Chapter 3.
Desensitisation therapy No. Example of bullying with a conventionalist view given but totally wrong. UK spelling.
Consequentialism - Yes defined and example given.

Huh. Pretty much any technical term is either explicitly or implicitly defined, sometime both. If no definition is given it is probably misused, but even seeing a definition or example isn't a guarantee that it is correct. Yud does pretty terrible on physical sciences but has a much better record for the social sciences.

i81icu812 fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Apr 1, 2015

# ? Apr 1, 2015 06:05

Tiggum: Oct 24, 2007; Your life and your quest end here.

i81icu812 posted:

How do you make non-oriental ramen?

Isn't "ramen" just American for two-minute noodles?

# ? Apr 1, 2015 12:55

Arbite: Nov 4, 2009

Tiggum posted:

Isn't "ramen" just American for two-minute noodles?

Don't forget the two slices of bland meat!

# ? Apr 1, 2015 13:25

NeoAnjou: Jul 22, 2010

i81icu812 posted:

Desensitisation therapy No. Example of bullying with a conventionalist view given but totally wrong. UK spelling.
Consequentialism - Yes defined and example given. UK spelling.

Don't assume that anything spelt with an 's' is British English, and a 'z' American.

The OED (Oxford English Dictionary), tends to favour 'z' spellings for certain British-English words which other British authorities spell with an 's' - e.g. desensitize (and hence desensitization).
Apparently 'consequentialism' is spelt with an 's' even in American English (Other Sources Here).

Although, in the spirit of nit-picking that this post seems to have inspired in me, you haven't actually stated that it isn't the American English spelling!

# ? Apr 1, 2015 15:23

petrol blue: Feb 9, 2013; sugar and spice
and
ethanol slammers

NeoAnjou posted:

Don't assume that anything spelt with an 's' is British English, and a 'z' American.

It's pretty much what I do! :pseudo:

# ? Apr 1, 2015 16:32

Bobbin Threadbare: Jan 2, 2009; I'm looking for a flock of urbanmechs.

Arbite posted:

Don't forget the two slices of bland meat!

You get bland meat with your ramen? Lucky.

# ? Apr 1, 2015 18:38

NihilCredo: Jun 6, 2011; iram omni possibili modo preme:
plus una illa te diffamabit, quam multæ virtutes commendabunt

NeoAnjou posted:

Don't assume that anything spelt with an 's' is British English, and a 'z' American.

The OED (Oxford English Dictionary), tends to favour 'z' spellings for certain British-English words which other British authorities spell with an 's' - e.g. desensitize (and hence desensitization).
Apparently 'consequentialism' is spelt with an 's' even in American English (Other Sources Here).

Although, in the spirit of nit-picking that this post seems to have inspired in me, you haven't actually stated that it isn't the American English spelling!

What do you mean? Every red-blooded American knows all about conzequentialism :patriot:

# ? Apr 1, 2015 20:51

i81icu812: Dec 5, 2006

NeoAnjou posted:

Don't assume that anything spelt with an 's' is British English, and a 'z' American.

The OED (Oxford English Dictionary), tends to favour 'z' spellings for certain British-English words which other British authorities spell with an 's' - e.g. desensitize (and hence desensitization).
Apparently 'consequentialism' is spelt with an 's' even in American English (Other Sources Here).

Although, in the spirit of nit-picking that this post seems to have inspired in me, you haven't actually stated that it isn't the American English spelling!

Technically correct is the best kind of correct!

Or I saw red on the firefox spellcheck and stopped thinking. >.>

In the spirit of nit-picking I welcome any and all corrections/comments/miscellaneous persnicketiness. Besides, its what Yud wants: a list of all the errors without reading the 'sneer culture' at somethingawful or on su3su2u1's blog. Or the sane people on the internet everywhere.

i81icu812 fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Apr 1, 2015

# ? Apr 1, 2015 22:45

Seraphic Neoman: Jul 19, 2011

Yudkowsky's OK Cupid posted:

I happened to be in New York City during the annual Union Square pillow fight, so I showed up dual-wielding two pillows, a short maneuverable pillow for blocking incoming blows and a longer pillow in my right hand for striking. These two pillows were respectively inscribed "Probability Theory" and "Decision Theory"; because the list of Eliezer Yudkowsky Facts, which I had no hand in composing, says that all problems can be solved with probability theory and decision theory, and probability theory and decision theory are the names of my fists.

Seraphic Neoman fucked around with this message at 03:28 on Apr 4, 2015

# ? Apr 4, 2015 03:23

pentyne: Nov 7, 2012

Darth Walrus posted:

Oriental is pretty... uhh... outdated terminology, too.

I learned the specific, non-racist use after a fraternity at my campus hosted an "Oriental party".

Oriental when referring to physical objects, like carpets and vases, is a correct use. When applied to people it's racist.

For a self-proclaimed expert like Yud to not know this simple distinction is probably more a factor of the insulated bubble he lives that has never forced him to hear differing points of view/correct terminology and thus operates on the belief that everything he knows is the correct thought because otherwise he wouldn't know it.

# ? Apr 5, 2015 04:47

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

"I wouldn't get offended if they said I was an Occidental. Why are they offended over Oriental?"

# ? Apr 5, 2015 06:24

Pavlov: Oct 21, 2012; I've long been fascinated with how the alt-right develops elaborate and obscure dog whistles to try to communicate their meaning without having to say it out loud
Stepan Andreyevich Bandera being the most prominent example of that

I think most people would just be confused.

# ? Apr 5, 2015 16:25

i81icu812: Dec 5, 2006

NeoAnjou posted:

I *think* (not being of South East Asian extraction) that it's not acquired the same offensive nature in the UK. But it's not a commonly used word - it definitely has an archaic feel or the Victorian times and 'Orientalism', the art movement.

Having said that, 'Oriental' doesn't feature in the Office of National Statistics list of census racial categories in England/Wales/Scotland/N. Ireland (see here), and most of the references in a quick Google search (for 'oriental offensive uk') seem to be people being confused as to whether it is offensive or not.

So it *may* be badly applied 'trying to be British'. Maybe.

Yeah, I think you've got it. British English Asian = from the Indian subcontinent, so you need some other word for people from the rest of Asia therefore Oriental. Americans decide Oriental (as an ethnic group) is offensive, Brits remain confused.

The bigger question is why Yud thinks Wise Old Men should be stereotypically Oriental/East Asian and not Merlin-clones.

petrol blue posted:

The food of peak , in every sense.

Somehow Tesco generic ramen removes all of the msg and artificial flavoring that makes cheap instant noodles have any flavor at all. Truly peak :effort:

on display.

# ? Apr 5, 2015 19:28

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# ? May 17, 2024 20:58

JosephWongKS: Apr 4, 2009; by Nyc_Tattoo

Chapter 9: Title Redacted, Part I
Part 2

quote:

"What?" Harry said involuntarily, causing Hermione and four other students to hush him.

Now Harry was getting a surprisingly intimidating glare from the Ravenclaw prefect.

"I mean -" Harry whispered. "Not that I have a problem with that - it's just - I mean - how's that possible? You can't just mix two different species together and get viable offspring! It ought to scramble the genetic instructions for every organ that's different between the two species - it'd be like trying to build," they didn't have cars so he couldn't use a scrambled-engine-blueprints analogy, "a half-carriage half-boat or something..."

�You can't just mix two different species together and get viable offspring?� Really? Seriously?

How is it possible that someone as well-read as Eliezarry has never heard of or read about mules or ligers or other hybrid animals? Mules have been bred since antiquity, and ligers have been known since the 19th century and bred since the early 20th century, before the 1990s in which this series takes place.

quote:

The Ravenclaw prefect was still looking at Harry severely. "Why couldn't you have a half-carriage half-boat?"

Not to mention that there totally are such things as amphibious vehicles, and they�ve existed at least early as the 18th century.

quote:

"Hssh! " hsshed another prefect, though the Ravenclaw witch had still spoken quietly.

"I mean -" Harry said even more quietly, trying to figure out how to ask whether goblins had evolved from humans, or evolved from a common ancestor of humans like Homo erectus, or if goblins had been made out of humans somehow - if, say, they were still genetically human under a heritable enchantment whose magical effect was diluted if only one parent was a 'goblin', which would explain how interbreeding was possible, and in which case goblins would not be an incredibly valuable second data point for how intelligence had evolved in other species besides Homo sapiens - now that Harry thought about it, the goblins in Gringotts hadn't seemed very much like genuinely alien, nonhuman intelligences, nothing like Dirdir or Puppeteers - "I mean, where did goblins come from, anyway?"

"Lithuania," Hermione whispered absently, her eyes still fixed firmly on the Sorting Hat.

Now Hermione was getting a smile from the lady prefect.

"Never mind," whispered Harry.

At the lectern, Professor McGonagall called out, "Goldstein, Anthony!"

"RAVENCLAW!"

Hermione, next to Harry, was bouncing on her tiptoes so hard that her feet were actually leaving the ground on each bounce.

"Goyle, Gregory!"

There was a long, tense moment of silence under the Hat. Almost a minute.

"SLYTHERIN!"

That does make sense � Slytherins are supposed to be �ambitious, shrewd and cunning�, none of which describes Goyle (or Crabbe) in the canon series.

quote:

"Granger, Hermione!"

Hermione broke loose and ran full tilt towards the Sorting Hat, picked it up and jammed the patchy old clothwork down hard over her head, making Harry wince. Hermione had been the one to explain to him about the Sorting Hat, but she certainly didn't treat it like an irreplaceable, vitally important, 800-year-old artefact of forgotten magic that was about to perform intricate telepathy on her mind and didn't seem to be in very good physical condition.

"RAVENCLAW!"

And talk about your foregone conclusions. Harry didn't see why Hermione had been so tense about it. In what weird alternative universe would that girl not be Sorted into Ravenclaw? If Hermione Granger didn't go to Ravenclaw then there was no good reason for Ravenclaw House to exist.

Hermione arrived at the Ravenclaw table and got a dutiful cheer; Harry wondered whether the cheer would have been louder, or quieter, if they'd had any idea just what level of competition they'd welcomed to their table. Harry knew pi to 3.141592 because accuracy to one part in a million was enough for most practical purposes. Hermione knew one hundred digits of pi because that was how many digits had been printed in the back of her maths textbook.

I must admit I chuckled at that.

# ? Apr 6, 2015 04:23

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > Let's Read: "Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality"

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