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April Agitation coming down to E2M2 and Map29 is a loving disgrace, especially taking into account most of the maps they each went up against. I mean holy poo poo. And what's worse is that it looks like E2M2 is going to win! Everyone responsible for this should be ashamed of themselves!
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Apr 9, 2015 12:26
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Pretty sure it's some kind of elaborate ballot-stuffing troll if E2M2 wins because that level is so poo poo.
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Apr 9, 2015 16:47
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E2M2 is better than MAP29 and also at leas tin the top 10 Doom 1 maps.
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Apr 9, 2015 16:54
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Nintendo Kid posted:E2M2 is better than MAP29 and also at leas tin the top 10 Doom 1 maps. gently caress you.
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Apr 9, 2015 17:01
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E2M2 
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Apr 9, 2015 17:03
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Hey, it could be worse. It could be E2M4, or as I like to call it, the absolute ugliest piece of poo poo in the entirety of Doom's history.
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Apr 9, 2015 17:11
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E2M2 is the origin of the crate maze. How the hell did anyone vote for it?
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Apr 9, 2015 17:20
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Capilarean posted:E2M2 is the origin of the crate maze. How the hell did anyone vote for it? ... Oh gods. I was struggling to remember the level in question and was considering firing up doom to see, and then you post that. And the memories, They come crashing back. 
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Apr 9, 2015 17:21
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There are no sewers in Doom. Who do we blame for sewer levels? Episode 1 of Quake is basically a giant sewer, right???
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Apr 9, 2015 17:23
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map02 in doom 2 is one giant sewer wasnt there a sewer map in ultima underworld 2
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Apr 9, 2015 17:25
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Hexen? Heretic? Strife? Its been years since i played the first two, but i know Strife had ghastly sewer levels, the first one coupled with environmental damage to create an artificial time constraint. Awful, awful levels. The black spot on an otherwise great game.
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Apr 9, 2015 17:26
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Capilarean posted:E2M2 is the origin of the crate maze. How the hell did anyone vote for it? It ain't a maze though, it just be rooms where the paths are wiggly a bit due to having the crates on the side. 
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Apr 9, 2015 17:33
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You say that now, but ten year old me was stuck in there for the longest time.
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Apr 9, 2015 17:35
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Linguica posted:If any of you have Doomworld forum accounts, don't forget to vote in the final round: http://www.doomworld.com/vb/doom-general/72364-final-showdown-april-agitation-the-tournament-for-ids-best-doom-doom-2-level/ I'm still in mourning at E4M2 losing to MAP29, sorry.
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Apr 9, 2015 17:35
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:You say that now, but ten year old me was stuck in there for the longest time. 4 year old me didn't think to go off into the side areas of the crates to start with, so I didn't have any issues except being upset when I finished with like 10% secrets or something like that.
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Apr 9, 2015 17:46
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I actually like E2M2 a lot, it fits the idea of a good Doom 1 level perfectly to me.
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Apr 9, 2015 17:54
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0 rows returned posted:map02 in doom 2 is one giant sewer Yeah but MAP02 is short, sweet, and actually kind of fun. None of which I typically ascribe to sewer levels.
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Apr 9, 2015 17:55
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Maybe it's been bludgeoned into me by it repeatedly winning but E2M2 does sort of play like a quintessential Doom level. More exploration than you'd see in a Romero level (though the hub-and-spokes design is similar to later JR levels, it has more optional backtracking and "unnecessary" areas), better detail than most Sandy levels, but still with the set-piece fights he loved. Plus all those cool memorable areas like the crusher hall, the bridge over the slime that's revealed by the ceiling lights, and yeah, the crate maze. Like, I immediately thought MAP29 was better, but looking at it more, it has more glaring weaknesses (it's completely linear, the sub-areas in the "rising bridge" bit are completely undercooked, only one real secret) than E2M2. Anyway, E4M2 is the best Doom map.
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Apr 9, 2015 17:59
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E2M2 is truly a massive piece of poo poo and in no way deserves any credit whatsoever.
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Apr 9, 2015 18:00
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E2M2 is like goatse in that I know I should find it distasteful but my brain responds to it like an old friend
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Apr 9, 2015 18:03
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0 rows returned posted:map02 in doom 2 is one giant sewer Yes. It was called “all of Ultima underworld 2” (but that was probably more due to Dungeon Master and Eye of the Beholder and the like…).
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Apr 9, 2015 18:07
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Pistol starting MAP29 is kinda garbage. You have no ammo or power weapons, and there's a poo poo ton of snipers. There was a point where I had to berzerker punch a flock of cacodemons.
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Apr 9, 2015 18:23
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Alain Post posted:Maybe it's been bludgeoned into me by it repeatedly winning but E2M2 does sort of play like a quintessential Doom level. More exploration than you'd see in a Romero level (though the hub-and-spokes design is similar to later JR levels, it has more optional backtracking and "unnecessary" areas), better detail than most Sandy levels, but still with the set-piece fights he loved. Plus all those cool memorable areas like the crusher hall, the bridge over the slime that's revealed by the ceiling lights, and yeah, the crate maze. It maybe does have all of these core features of good Doom maps, but the actual reality of the map is that it's boring and annoying and a bad map. The question is why didn't MAP11 beat MAP29.
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Apr 9, 2015 18:31
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Elliotw2 posted:Pistol starting MAP29 is kinda garbage. You have no ammo or power weapons, and there's a poo poo ton of snipers. There was a point where I had to berzerker punch a flock of cacodemons. Yeah, the one non-secret (the plasma gun) is way too important to the map. Secret areas are cool but in general they shouldn't drastically affect the map like that (IMO, anyway).
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Apr 9, 2015 18:31
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CyRaptor posted:April Agitation coming down to E2M2 and Map29 is a loving disgrace, especially taking into account most of the maps they each went up against. I mean holy poo poo. And what's worse is that it looks like E2M2 is going to win! Everyone responsible for this should be ashamed of themselves! RyokoTK posted:Pretty sure it's some kind of elaborate ballot-stuffing troll if E2M2 wins because that level is so poo poo. Segmentation Fault posted:gently caress you. Zedsdeadbaby posted:E2M2 Capilarean posted:E2M2 is the origin of the crate maze. How the hell did anyone vote for it? uncleKitchener posted:E2M2 is truly a massive piece of poo poo and in no way deserves any credit whatsoever. Posts like these make me glad E2M2 is gonna win. 
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Apr 9, 2015 19:11
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Duke Nukem 3D for the Game.com https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V72P9-6S7qM Why the gently caress does this unholy abomination against man even EXIST
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Apr 9, 2015 19:18
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Al Cu Ad Solte posted:Duke Nukem 3D for the Game.com the best part about this is how for whatever reason the voices are way slower in game.com emulators than on the real thing, so you get this ooooooooh, I neeeeded thaaaaaat
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Apr 9, 2015 19:21
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Never owned one but I remember that thing being weird in that it had games you'd never expect on it like resident evil 2
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Apr 9, 2015 19:22
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Al Cu Ad Solte posted:Duke Nukem 3D for the Game.com The sad thing is, it's actually the best Game.Com game, or at least in the top 3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZMs0Yl_aJI Like it actually manages to work within the screen's severe limitations and produce something that's acceptable to play.
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Apr 9, 2015 19:40
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oh, I forgot one of the cooler bits of E2M2- in co-op, the second player starts in a completely different area of the crate maze than the first player, which is a nice, underused bit of creativity.
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Apr 9, 2015 20:00
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Nintendo Kid posted:Like it actually manages to work within the screen's severe limitations and produce something that's acceptable to play. Our definitions of "acceptable" vary.
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Apr 9, 2015 20:20
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Nintendo Kid posted:Like it actually manages to work within the screen's severe limitations and produce something that's acceptable to play. You can say this about the phone doom rpg game, but about game.com duke? I dunno man.
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Apr 9, 2015 21:52
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Elliotw2 posted:Pistol starting MAP29 is kinda garbage. You have no ammo or power weapons, and there's a poo poo ton of snipers. There was a point where I had to berzerker punch a flock of cacodemons. I'm the last person here to boast about my Doom skills, but it is perfectly possible to make through this map from pistol start. It takes some time to find the correct route for the beginning and some luck with timing things, but it's doable. Sprinting through lava pool to hidden teleporter, and finding the plasmagun with stacks of ammo makes everything way easier. It's one my favourite maps in Doom 2 because it's quite flexible when it comes to beating it.
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Apr 9, 2015 22:38
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BattleMaster posted:Our definitions of "acceptable" vary. The way it's designed avoids high speed motion as much as possible, and on a screen that's as prone to ghosting as the Game.Com (not only does it use a lovely LCD, but the way grayscale is implemented is that for each frame there's actually 4 rendered frames, which have different patterns of on and off pixels so that to get light gray you would for example have the pixel on in 1 of the subframes and off in the other 3) that's major. Tons of games tried to just ignore that on the system and it's awful. This includes how it's not really 2.5d at all: you always face a certain direction, and can only go forward and backward or strafe. When you need to go around a corner, the game automatically reorients you to the new direction. You can see how this works in the walkthrough which has full level maps: http://www.gamefaqs.com/gamecom/564274-duke-nukem-3d/faqs/5717
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Apr 9, 2015 23:31
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Nintendo Kid posted:The way it's designed avoids high speed motion as much as possible, and on a screen that's as prone to ghosting as the Game.Com (not only does it use a lovely LCD, but the way grayscale is implemented is that for each frame there's actually 4 rendered frames, which have different patterns of on and off pixels so that to get light gray you would for example have the pixel on in 1 of the subframes and off in the other 3) that's major. Tons of games tried to just ignore that on the system and it's awful. I understand what you're saying, that it uses some clever design and programming to pull off something that has no right to be on the hardware. But it's still an awful example of what it's trying to do, even if it's a good game as far as its competition on the system, and it looks thoroughly dreadful to play. Faking a first person view and 3D space on a system with low processing power is nothing new, but the Game.com Duke Nukem 3D is actually a particularly bad example of it given the year it was released in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPN76k5eN6Q I mean that's a 1990s game on a system released in the 80s that uses a CPU from the 70s. BattleMaster fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Apr 9, 2015 |
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Apr 9, 2015 23:35
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BattleMaster posted:I understand what you're saying, that it uses some clever design and programming to pull off something that has no right to be on the hardware. But it's still an awful example of what it's trying to do, even if it's a good game as far as its competition on the system, and it looks thoroughly dreadful to play. I've played it, and it's actually fun to play. It's like the only game on the system that I'll say that for, aside from like the Robotron and Defender games in Williams Arcade Classics. Also no, it's not just about low processing power, that's immaterial. What's special about it is that it manages to work with an absolutely terrible screen design. The hardware is certainly powerful enough to at least do a Wolfenstein 3D style FPS, could probably even manage a Doom style variable ceiling/floor height game, but if you did that it would blur and smear all over the loving place and be impossible to actually play.
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Apr 10, 2015 00:06
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Nintendo Kid posted:I've played it, and it's actually fun to play. It's like the only game on the system that I'll say that for, aside from like the Robotron and Defender games in Williams Arcade Classics. I thought I read somewhere that the Game.com was a nightmare to program stuff on because it had nothing resembling a GPU and all graphics were done in software on the poor CPU with no assistance like DMA, while the Game Boy and Game Gear at least had a GPU rendering the tiles and sprites in hardware.
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Apr 10, 2015 00:11
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BattleMaster posted:I thought I read somewhere that the Game.com was a nightmare to program stuff on because it had nothing resembling a GPU and all graphics were done in software on the poor CPU with no assistance like DMA, while the Game Boy and Game Gear at least had a GPU rendering the tiles and sprites in hardware. The Game Boy has a single CPU with graphics instructions built in, no seperate GPU (and also has sound generation built into the CPU, like the NES does). Game Gear has a separate video output chip because it's a portable Master System. The Game.Com has a faster combined video and cpu chip than the regular Game Boy, it's comparable in performance to the Game Boy Color CPU. All of the video problems are caused by the terrible screen combined with the terrible method of implementing grayscale on said terrible screen. You can't see this in the emulator, but it's super apparent on actual hardware. The guy who made Retro City Rampage used to have up a full technical teardown of how the Game.com works on his old site (and why it's so terrible to play games using the screen), and that's on archive.org now: http://web.archive.org/web/20081220055448/http://bripro.com/low/gamecom/index.php?page=lcd
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Apr 10, 2015 00:34
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I have to say that I respect the game a lot more after seeing those maps posted earlier. After watching videos of it I had assumed that there was only left/right/forward movement plus corners, and not a real attempt at simulating a larger space. Though it still looks slow and clunky, even if it is just the LCD holding it back.
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Apr 10, 2015 03:17
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Welp, we made it to Mishima's cyberpunk-dojo-and-cyber-ape emporium, and got to meet Shrek and Goro's horrific lovechild: But before we could ask for autographs we were beset by Mishima's fiercest warriors, college football players wielding explosive knives: Then I think we jumped out a window and swam to the bottom of the ocean (we were in the top floor of a dojo one level then in cyberpunk-rapture without warning) to audition for the next season of Most Extreme Elimination Challenge: Oh and Mishima showed up, and we spent a good 10 minutes running around a submarine hanger with an old man dressed like Lo Pan as he constantly stopped to rub his katana in an erotic manner to summon spooky ghosts: And then the game ended...I think. Daikatana ended with Hiro and his pals beating an old man to death on top of a submarine and subsequently becoming trapped at the bottom of the ocean, right?
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