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If your board game requires an app/audio track to function you are designing badly. It's such a ham-fisted way to get around having to design clever/interesting mechanics. It's like you're designing a simple mobile/facebook game but are not capable of doing the graphics. I really hope the fad dies a quick quiet death before it ruins board gaming.
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Apr 11, 2015 10:45
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Toshimo posted:This sounds like you were missing some rules. Doesn't sound like he was missing the spirit of the game, though. (King of Tokyo is pretty bad) SuccinctAndPunchy posted:EDIT: You know since I've been ragging on a shitload of things, I also played Cash n Guns today and that game is great and everyone wanted a second round after the first had concluded. bobvonunheil fucked around with this message at 10:48 on Apr 11, 2015 |
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Apr 11, 2015 10:46
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bobvonunheil posted:I hope you were playing the first edition (with the Bang Bang Bang cards)! It's much more fun, and less random bullshit. 2nd edition is only sort of OK by comparison. Second edition. Went and looked up the first edition rules and yeah the two are pretty substantially different. But I got to point foam guns at people and annoy everyone at the table by singing "diamonds are forever" while taking all the diamonds 10/10 would play again. Like, I definitely don't believe it's a game with the most strategic depth in the world but it was one of the more memorable games to hit the table that night. I know they're completely different kinds of game but I had way way more fun with Cash n Guns than I did king of loving tokyo. SuccinctAndPunchy fucked around with this message at 11:09 on Apr 11, 2015 |
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Apr 11, 2015 11:01
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snuff posted:I'm about to buy San Juan (2nd ed.) It seems to be universally praised despite its age, could I get some goon opinions on it? Second edition is decent, it comes with expansion cards that add some necessary variety and a slight nerf to the Guild Hall. I don't think I'd ever play San Juan over Race for the Galaxy if given the option but it's not bad or anything. I guess if you really prefer the Puerto Rico-style role selection to simultaneous blind role selection then that's a plus in San Juan's favour. 4outof5 posted:If your board game requires an app/audio track to function you are designing badly. It's such a ham-fisted way to get around having to design clever/interesting mechanics. It's like you're designing a simple mobile/facebook game but are not capable of doing the graphics. I really hope the fad dies a quick quiet death before it ruins board gaming.  enemy activity detected
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Apr 11, 2015 11:11
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4outof5 posted:If your board game requires an app/audio track to function you are designing badly. It's such a ham-fisted way to get around having to design clever/interesting mechanics. It's like you're designing a simple mobile/facebook game but are not capable of doing the graphics. I really hope the fad dies a quick quiet death before it ruins board gaming. at least put more than the bear minimum of effort into your trolling, come on
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Apr 11, 2015 11:15
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SuccinctAndPunchy posted:Second edition. Went and looked up the first edition rules and yeah the two are pretty substantially different. But I got to point foam guns at people and annoy everyone at the table by singing "diamonds are forever" while taking all the diamonds 10/10 would play again. Like, I definitely don't believe it's a game with the most strategic depth in the world but it was one of the more memorable games to hit the table that night. I know they're completely different kinds of game but I had way way more fun with Cash n Guns than I did king of loving tokyo. Yeah you can definitely have ~*fun*~ with Cash n Guns 2nd edition, but you'll have a hard time getting people to play it a 3rd or 4th time. I can bring out 1st Edition with the power cards and everyone's keen to play, despite playing it 10 or more times each already.
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Apr 11, 2015 11:30
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snuff posted:I'm about to buy San Juan (2nd ed.) It seems to be universally praised despite its age, could I get some goon opinions on it? I'd suggest Race for the Galaxy or Roll for the Galaxy instead. San Juan isn't bad, but I prefer those two to it.
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Apr 11, 2015 11:40
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bobvonunheil posted:Yeah you can definitely have ~*fun*~ with Cash n Guns 2nd edition, but you'll have a hard time getting people to play it a 3rd or 4th time. I can bring out 1st Edition with the power cards and everyone's keen to play, despite playing it 10 or more times each already. 2nd Edition's got power cards too and we haven't actually tried using them yet, so the game will probably get a few more spins at my table with those in play. That said, feel free to explain in detail why first edition is better because I'm interested enough to listen.
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Apr 11, 2015 11:45
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Having played a decent chunk of Tash Kalar now on BGA... is it just me or is the endgame of high form a little hinky? In my experience it tends to wind up with the person in the lead triggering endgame, and both players thereby getting one more go - which requires the trailing player not just to catch up on their final turn, but to overtake, and overtake hard enough that the winner can't pull him back. It's REALLY loving hard to win from behind in high form. It feels like the player in last should get one more turn, and the player ahead shouldn't.
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Apr 11, 2015 12:00
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What are everyone's thoughts on Concept? I could use more social games, and the idea of the game seems interesting, but I want to make sure it's not a bust first. I'm also fine with more recommendations, I already have Telestrations and my friend has the other classics like Coup, Resistance, Wits & Wagers, and ONUW. And before everyone recommends it, I already have Pictomania coming in once Dominion Adventures ships from CSI.
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Apr 11, 2015 12:04
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SuccinctAndPunchy posted:2nd Edition's got power cards too and we haven't actually tried using them yet, so the game will probably get a few more spins at my table with those in play. That said, feel free to explain in detail why first edition is better because I'm interested enough to listen. In First Edition - At the start of each round, you reveal 5 banknotes worth $5000, $10,000 or $20,000 each. When splitting the loot, each player who made it only takes what can be split evenly - so there may be over $100,000 in the pot, but if it's not able to be split up so that each player gets an equal amount, nobody gets any of it. Usually you'll start with players claiming 5k or 10k each when they get money, with the pot building up until there's enough there to warrant having a big shootout over. If you have a real bloodbath (and when the pot gets big, there'll be a lot of wounds) and only two people make it to the middle, they are both going to be walking around with huge piles of cash in their pockets, and make themselves targets for the rest of the game. - The Bang Bang Bang cards trump the Bang cards in initiative, so you have an ace in the hole when the pot gets really big - but you can only use it once. It adds a much-needed level of control in a game that's already pretty arbitrary. In Second Edition - The Godfather power basically encourages players to just point at the Godfather every round if they don't have another target in mind, so they get to choose who to point at after everyone else. - First player gets best pick and most loot cards. This can be really swingy; if we assume a 6 player game, in a round where nobody gets shot the first player will get two cards, and one of those will have been the best card on the table, whereas players 3-6 get only one card, which will be the dregs. It makes the game feel like you never really had any choice over who wins. So yeah, not only does it take away good elements of the game, it then adds in bad elements too. Fortunately you can just proxy up a First Edition set by making some cash cards and drawing a little plus sign on some of your bullet cards or something. bobvonunheil fucked around with this message at 12:25 on Apr 11, 2015 |
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Apr 11, 2015 12:20
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thespaceinvader posted:Having played a decent chunk of Tash Kalar now on BGA... is it just me or is the endgame of high form a little hinky? In my experience it tends to wind up with the person in the lead triggering endgame, and both players thereby getting one more go - which requires the trailing player not just to catch up on their final turn, but to overtake, and overtake hard enough that the winner can't pull him back. It's REALLY loving hard to win from behind in high form. It feels like the player in last should get one more turn, and the player ahead shouldn't. Nah, it would mean you can't trigger endgame without being up by like 4 points. Would result in a weird standoff at 8 or whatever. If it's not a close game, then yeah, the triggerer wins almost all the time. But if you only hit 9 or 10, and the other guy can get to 11 or 12 with a big goal and a legendary, you can do it. Be the first to 10, is really the advice!
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Apr 11, 2015 12:42
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silvergoose posted:Nah, it would mean you can't trigger endgame without being up by like 4 points. Would result in a weird standoff at 8 or whatever. Yeah I don't have any real problem with the guy who's already winning being much more likely to win at the end.
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Apr 11, 2015 12:48
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Mega64 posted:What are everyone's thoughts on Concept? I could use more social games, and the idea of the game seems interesting, but I want to make sure it's not a bust first. I'm also fine with more recommendations, I already have Telestrations and my friend has the other classics like Coup, Resistance, Wits & Wagers, and ONUW. It looks like an interesting game, and I have heard good things about it. If I was playing it I would use CaH white cards instead of the ones included 
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Apr 11, 2015 13:04
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Mega64 posted:What are everyone's thoughts on Concept? I could use more social games, and the idea of the game seems interesting, but I want to make sure it's not a bust first. I'm also fine with more recommendations, I already have Telestrations and my friend has the other classics like Coup, Resistance, Wits & Wagers, and ONUW. Concept is fine. I was big on it when I first played it, but have cooled slightly since. If you have a bad group you will have a bad time, but with an OK to awesome group it can still be fun. Ignore points, you will likely get tired of the game before anyone team triggers the win condition, so just play until you all feel the game has started to overstay its welcome. Also be sure to limit the time people have to guess or you will end up with several boring minutes as a terrible clue giver points ever more sternly at their awful clues, changing nothing while people start to guess blindly just to move the game along. If you can grab it for close to $20 go for it, it is a good party game that is stupid simple to teach. Indolent Bastard fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Apr 11, 2015 |
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Apr 11, 2015 13:22
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bobvonunheil posted:In First Edition To get 1st edition cash look for an old copy of The Game of Life. The paper cash in that game is the correct denominations and will work; odds are you will see one at a yard sale for a buck or two if you look. 
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Apr 11, 2015 13:25
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Indolent Bastard posted:Concept is fine. I was big on it when I first played it, but have cooled slightly since. If you have a bad group you will have a bad time, but with an OK to awesome grow it can still be fun. Ignore points, you will likely get tired of the game before anyone team triggers the win condition, so just play until you all feel the game has started to overstay its welcome. Also be sure to limit the time people have to guess or you will end up with several boring minutes as a terrible clue giver points ever more sternly at their awful clues, changing nothing while people start to guess blindly just to move the game along. If you can grab it for close to $20 go for it, it is a good party game that is stupid simple to teach. It's on sale today on Amazon along with a bunch of other games, and my group's pretty awesome with social stuff, so I'll give it a buy. Thanks!
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Apr 11, 2015 13:25
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Mega64 posted:It's on sale today on Amazon along with a bunch of other games, and my group's pretty awesome with social stuff, so I'll give it a buy. Thanks! Are there any other of these sales that anyone would particularly recommend? I do already have Dixit, Castles of Burgundy, and 7 Wonders. (I also have Resistance: Avalon. Dunno if it would be worth it to replace with the original in order to eventually get the expansions) BeefyTaco fucked around with this message at 14:29 on Apr 11, 2015 |
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Apr 11, 2015 14:23
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BeefyTaco posted:Are there any other of these sales that anyone would particularly recommend? I do already have Dixit, Castles of Burgundy, and 7 Wonders. (I also have Resistance: Avalon. Dunno if it would be worth it to replace with the original in order to eventually get the expansions) I played Love Letter a few weeks ago and I actually really enjoyed it. It's a very light, quick card game and made good filler between a few 'real' games even if the theme doesn't really make any sense at all.
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Apr 11, 2015 15:25
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4outof5 posted:If your board game requires an app/audio track to function you are designing badly. It's such a ham-fisted way to get around having to design clever/interesting mechanics. It's like you're designing a simple mobile/facebook game but are not capable of doing the graphics. I really hope the fad dies a quick quiet death before it ruins board gaming. 4outof5 posted:If your board game requires an app/audio track to function you are designing badly. It's such a ham-fisted way to get around having to design clever/interesting mechanics. It's like you're designing a simple mobile/facebook game but are not capable of doing the graphics. I really hope the fad dies a quick quiet death before it ruins board gaming. I can't disagree with this more. Alchemists could not exist without the app, and its core mechanic (logic game) is solid. Apps can take tedious bookkeeping or game master functions off the players, allowing the players to focus on the game itself. They're not a fad, and they open up a whole bunch of new design space.
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Apr 11, 2015 15:37
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BeefyTaco posted:Are there any other of these sales that anyone would particularly recommend? I do already have Dixit, Castles of Burgundy, and 7 Wonders. (I also have Resistance: Avalon. Dunno if it would be worth it to replace with the original in order to eventually get the expansions) Ticket to Ride is a classic for a reason, and is probably the best of the "beginner" games people recommend for people new to the hobby. Love Letter is a great way to kill a few minutes. Forbidden Desert's nice if you want a light co-op. If you don't mind dice, I'm a fan of King of New York. I think Libertalia has gotten some good responses from the thread, and it plays well with six (though I'm personally a bit more lukewarm on it, but I'm probably the minority there). I like Tsuro as a quick game. Though the thread's not high on Splendor, for $20 it's nice for a light game with a little bit of strategy. I also enjoy Cartagena as a light time-killer. And I'm a big fan of Kingdom Builder. I wouldn't worry about getting base Resistance, since one of the expansions is the roles that Avalon adds anyway, plus apparently there's been a terrible print run for some of the expansions anyway.
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Apr 11, 2015 15:47
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drat Dirty Ape posted:I played Love Letter a few weeks ago and I actually really enjoyed it. It's a very light, quick card game and made good filler between a few 'real' games even if the theme doesn't really make any sense at all. Oops, forgot to mention that I have that one too (totally agree that it's great). But I don't have the Munchkin edition yet!  I seem to recall hearing that RoboRally and Trajan are good. It looks like Trajan is by the same designer as Burgundy, which is a modest hit in our group, so maybe that would go over well too? And I imagine I'll enjoy the programming aspect of RoboRally from how much I love Space Alert. BeefyTaco fucked around with this message at 16:02 on Apr 11, 2015 |
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Apr 11, 2015 15:56
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Mega64 posted:Ticket to Ride is a classic for a reason, and is probably the best of the "beginner" games people recommend for people new to the hobby. Love Letter is a great way to kill a few minutes. Forbidden Desert's nice if you want a light co-op. If you don't mind dice, I'm a fan of King of New York. I think Libertalia has gotten some good responses from the thread, and it plays well with six (though I'm personally a bit more lukewarm on it, but I'm probably the minority there). I like Tsuro as a quick game. Though the thread's not high on Splendor, for $20 it's nice for a light game with a little bit of strategy. I also enjoy Cartagena as a light time-killer. And I'm a big fan of Kingdom Builder. Thank you for the advice  Kingdom Builder looks interesting. Would you mind elaborating on why you like it so much?
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Apr 11, 2015 16:01
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I love that Batman and The Hobbit were the licenses they picked for Love Letter. That's just silly.
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Apr 11, 2015 16:10
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Prairie Bus posted:I can't disagree with this more. Alchemists could not exist without the app, and its core mechanic (logic game) is solid. Apps can take tedious bookkeeping or game master functions off the players, allowing the players to focus on the game itself. Integrating apps into board games puts me right off, and frankly feels gimmicky and lazy. If I wanted to play a computer game that's what I would do, computer games are great. Putting board and computer games together is like christian rock, you aren't making Christianity better you are making rock worse. I play board games to get away from a computer screen for a bit; there is enough trouble with people fiddling on their phones at game night I don't need to encourage it. It's also really lazy. If you need a computer to do the calculations in your game you have designed it poorly. It's not like it is impossible to make a complex game that is intuitively understandable to humans using only card and chits. That is a good portion of the skill of a modern board game designer; how do I translate this cool concept into easily understood mechanics? No need with app integration! You can make you game as fiddly and unintuitive as you want and the app will figure it out for the players, no need for them to think about it! vvvv Yeah I have no problems with Space Alerts audio tracks, that's just a fancy sand timer Rutibex fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Apr 11, 2015 |
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Apr 11, 2015 16:11
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Rutibex posted:Integrating apps into board games puts me right off, and frankly feels gimmicky and lazy. If I wanted to play a computer game that's what I would do, computer games are great. Putting board and computer games together is like christian rock, you aren't making Christianity better you are making rock worse. I play board games to get away from a computer screen for a bit; there is enough trouble with people fiddling on their phones at game night I don't need to encourage it. Mostly this, but audio tracks are cool and good.
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Apr 11, 2015 16:14
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BeefyTaco posted:Oops, forgot to mention that I have that one too (totally agree that it's great). But I don't have the Munchkin edition yet! Trajan is great, the mancala action selection is great, everything is great - but it is a heavy, thinky game without much theme. If you're unfamiliar, here's a real quick run down: Each player has a board with six spots for six different actions. Each spot starts with two colored tokens in it, and to take an action, you've got to be able to move tokens from any spot to the spot you want by distributing them one by one, mancala style. Sometimes, you can get bonuses for ending the mancala phase with certain colors in the spot you landed in. This can cause serious AP issues - it's possible to try to project forward several turns, trying to maximize your actions and bonuses. There's a lot more to the game, mostly set collecting and area control, but the mancala is what makes the game great.
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Apr 11, 2015 16:16
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BeefyTaco posted:Thank you for the advice It's by the same guy behind Dominion, so it's got the same idea of randomized set-ups, the two being how you score points and the different powers available. The idea is you place three settlements each round in one of five terrain types, depending on which one you draw. You have to build adjacent to your existing settlements when possible (and if you can't then you choose wherever you want in that terrain), so there's strategy already in how you place your settlements to give yourself flexibility for future rounds. Of course, there's different powers you can get by building around a specific power tile, and they do stuff like let you build an extra settlement in X terrain or move a settlement to the sea (which you can't build on) or whatever else, and you can do them before or after your three required settlements each turn. Of course, how you win is different each game, as you have three ways from a bunch of different methods. It can be "a point for every two settlements in your biggest cluster", or "a point per settlement in the horizontal/vertical line with your most settlements" or "a point per settlement in the quadrant with your least settlements" or whatever else. So even two games with identical maps will be incredibly different depending on the scoring. Opinion's pretty divided on it (some people hate the game, others love it), so you may want to give it a try first. There's an apparently mediocre app available for it if you want to try it out that way.
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Apr 11, 2015 16:17
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Rutibex posted:Integrating apps into board games puts me right off, and frankly feels gimmicky and lazy. If I wanted to play a computer game that's what I would do, computer games are great. Putting board and computer games together is like christian rock, you aren't making Christianity better you are making rock worse. I play board games to get away from a computer screen for a bit; there is enough trouble with people fiddling on their phones at game night I don't need to encourage it. Alchemists is a great example of an app done well. The logic game has seven (I think) different reagents, each with its own secret chemical composition. Each reagent can be combined with another reagent to produce a result. In order for the game to work, something has to know what results from each potential combination, and that something has to be able to give out the information. It's entirely possible to do it with a human player, whose only job is to secretly look at combined reagents and compare them to a grid, but that would be a lovely, boring role. The app unobtrusively takes that role. It doesn't hide any fiddly or unintuitive rules, and it lets all the players focus on the actual game.
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Apr 11, 2015 16:24
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I didn't see if someone posted this already, but Amazon is having a Tabletop day sale: http://www.amazon.com/b/ref=lp_1116...177402741770316
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Apr 11, 2015 16:25
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Echophonic posted:I love that Batman and The Hobbit were the licenses they picked for Love Letter. That's just silly. I can't believe I wasted my money on a non-Batman version of Love Letter. 
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Apr 11, 2015 16:29
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App integration is terrible except for audio tracks and timers, and scoring apps, and Dominion setup randomizers, and probably dozens of other good ideas that people will come up with.
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Apr 11, 2015 16:41
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Dice rollers for things which come with custom dice, but nowhere near enough of them (I'm looking at you, Descent 2e). Eclipse would probably be a lot more palatable with a tracking app for combat, too.
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Apr 11, 2015 16:44
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Rutibex posted:It's also really lazy. If you need a computer to do the calculations in your game you have designed it poorly. It's not like it is impossible to make a complex game that is intuitively understandable to humans using only card and chits. That is a good portion of the skill of a modern board game designer; how do I translate this cool concept into easily understood mechanics? No need with app integration! You can make you game as fiddly and unintuitive as you want and the app will figure it out for the players, no need for them to think about it! It's definitely possible to make a complex game that's easily understood without an app, but letting an app help opens up some previously inaccessible design space. Making people burn cellphone power to play your game is definitely a downside, but I figure there are plenty of situations where it's worth it. What I actually really like apps for, though, is just taking a fairly simple game and making it stupidly easy to play. Like, a big downside of using app calculation is that there's something inherently problematic about game mechanics that are hidden from the players--the players have to be able to understand what the app is doing well enough to strategize around it or it just becomes arbitrary and horrible. What works better is doing stuff like One Night Ultimate Werewolf, where the existence of the app basically just means that you can take a big group of people who have never played it before and let them go from opening the box for the first time to actually playing in very little time. X-Com seems similar (although I haven't played it) in that it basically uses the app to lessen the rules learning frontending. Anything with an app to help with scoring fits into this, as well, just taking an action you could be doing yourself and making it easier/less frustrating. I guess the other thing I could see apps being good for is just helping with any randomization that's more complex than either rolling a die or shuffling a deck, but again that's dangerous if it's in a part of the game that the players need to be able to build a mental model of.
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Apr 11, 2015 16:59
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Apps do not turn board games into video games, what kind of stupid logic is that
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Apr 11, 2015 17:03
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Trying to determine whether to get Kingdom Builders or Castle of Burgundy. How is each game?
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Apr 11, 2015 17:09
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psyer posted:Trying to determine whether to get Kingdom Builders or Castle of Burgundy. How is each game? Well, what are you looking for in a game? They're both kindly regarded but highly dissimilar games.
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Apr 11, 2015 17:11
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S.J. posted:Apps do not turn board games into video games, what kind of stupid logic is that It kinda turns them into a strange halfway house that currently there isn't really a good term for. I don't think there needs to be one, mind you; it's a cool marriage of old and new that I can get behind.
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Apr 11, 2015 17:26
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Elysium posted:I didn't see if someone posted this already, but Amazon is having a Tabletop day sale: If you're gonna do a mega order ($125 for free shipping) Cardhaus is too and they have some good poo poo: http://www.cardhaus.com e: seein Brass, Power Grid Deluxe, Panamax, Castles of Mad King Ludwig, Euphoria, Dungeon Lords (all editions), Dungeon Petz: Dark Alleys, Polis, The Duke, Terra Mystica: Fire and Ice, Imperial Assault among others T-Bone fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Apr 11, 2015 |
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Apr 11, 2015 17:29
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Picked up Libertalia and Love Letter from the Amazon sale. Almost picked up 7 wonders but since everybody I know seems to own it there is no real point in me buying it.
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Apr 11, 2015 17:31
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