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Forever_Peace posted:Any tips on which class to spec recruits with different stats? Medics get the best will growth of any class and can pick up a few more points on their tree from steadfast and extra conditioning so they make pretty good psi-support units. Low defense is good for DR specced assaults and gunners because it makes it slightly more likely the aliens will fire at them. Anyone with 15 move should be made a scout or an assault, no questions. Both classes can pick up sprinter for even more move and can work miracles with extremely high move. Both classes also make for fantastic exalt operatives (run and gun to transmitters or concealment, your call). Unless I'm playing commander's choice (always play commander's choice! I'm the freaking commander of X-Com!) I stick people in jobs along these lines: Sniper/Scout -> high aim sniper, high move scout, neither reroll; Infantry/Assault -> high aim infantry, high move assault, neither reroll; Gunner/Rocketeer -> decent move (13+)/aim gunner or reroll, rocketeers are for nerds; Medic/Engineer -> high will medic, else engineer. You can never have enough engineers. Smoke supports being everything but medkits and sappers bring almost as much but are fantastic at cover destruction. I've never liked rocketeers, not even in the base game. I'm just not a big fan of the rocket for personal reasons. Long War's scatter system made me even less of a fan. When I need mass pinpoint cover destruction I turn to my engineers, especially once they have bombard. I did mod up the environmental damage of the basic HE grenade to 150 though, up from the pitiful 99 they set it at (still not as high as the 250 I think vanilla had it set at). If I lob a loving grenade at a park bench there should BE NO MORE PARK BENCH.
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Apr 13, 2015 04:36
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Forever_Peace posted:Any tips on which class to spec recruits with different stats? I usually play with strict screening but since I tend to make all my my assaults into Psi troopers I'd bet that's a great stat to look for any build of assault. Also helps a ton if they dont panic when you need the clutch CCS reaction shot, or avoiding a panic out in the open when you just wanted to hit n' run that muton Defense is weird because high defense is obviously better for an individual soldier but it can be devastating if aliens shoot at your low-hp/low-def backline soldier instead of your tanky titan armor infantry
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Apr 13, 2015 04:42
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Goddamn loving suicidal floaters, two jetted straight into 5 overwatch shots, miraculously avoided all but one and shot my meld runner in the face he survived that one. the second floater put him down though rip. gonna have to be more cautious against floaters, forgot b15 meant they don't freeze up when you OW anymore
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Apr 13, 2015 04:56
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15C just came out.
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Apr 13, 2015 05:12
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Not a Step posted:Medics get the best will growth of any class and can pick up a few more points on their tree from steadfast and extra conditioning so they make pretty good psi-support units. Medics have lousy +will talents: 11 points (Steadfast, Revive, Extra Conditioning). With the three extra points they get naturally, they end up with +14 will. Assaults, on the other hand, get +17 (Steadfast, Will to Survive, Close Encounters, Extra Conditioning). Also, the Assault perk selection lends itself very, very well to making a psyker who gets up close and tanks fire while killing things with her MIND.
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Apr 13, 2015 05:41
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Well, there goes resilience from all MEC trees.
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Apr 13, 2015 05:46
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Sober posted:Well, there goes resilience from all MEC trees. Wait, that was the undocumented change to the various MEC trees? What do they get instead?
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Apr 13, 2015 07:11
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Wait, wasn't 15c supposed to implement a more streamlined menu system for choosing XCOM's starting country? I seem to recall seeing something where you'd select a country from the column on the left, and check a box for a bonus on the right (rather than the current setup of having most countries listed multiple times, each with different bonuses).
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Apr 13, 2015 07:40
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Zore posted:What do they get instead? Betting on boned. Frankly, MECs should be crit-immune by default, I think, but then again I like big tanky things being able to take a shot or two.
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Apr 13, 2015 07:47
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Zore posted:Wait, that was the undocumented change to the various MEC trees? Goliaths got repair servos instead. Archers traded rapid reaction for advanced fire control and swapped some of the perks around, but didn't change any of the grenade support perks. The core armoring small item (grants resilience) is now available to MECs at (I think) advanced body armor, continuing the Long War tradition of making loving everything a small item because balance is hard. On the plus side it means tanking isn't the exclusive province of Goliaths anymore because any MEC can get resilience. On the downside it means tanking MECs are now even shittier at doing anything else because they *have* to take core armoring as a small item. Edit: Without resilience I think marauders may be the best tank MECs now. My gauss rush campaign hasnt hit MECs yet, but I think in my assault campaign I may use the dev console to swap all my goliaths to marauders Nix Panicus fucked around with this message at 08:06 on Apr 13, 2015 |
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Apr 13, 2015 07:55
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Cream-of-Plenty posted:Wait, wasn't 15c supposed to implement a more streamlined menu system for choosing XCOM's starting country? I seem to recall seeing something where you'd select a country from the column on the left, and check a box for a bonus on the right (rather than the current setup of having most countries listed multiple times, each with different bonuses). I remember thats the concept art they released pre-b15 but whoever it is who does their graphics/UI modding (JC lewis?) made a reddit post about how they couldn't manage to make that kind of menu work ingame.
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Apr 13, 2015 08:00
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420 Gank Mid posted:I remember thats the concept art they released pre-b15 but whoever it is who does their graphics/UI modding (JC lewis?) made a reddit post about how they couldn't manage to make that kind of menu work ingame. Yeah you're right, I forget how I came across the image, but I misinterpreted it as a WIP rather than a mock-up. Really would have been cool if it was workable.
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Apr 13, 2015 08:09
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Not a Step posted:Goliaths got repair servos instead. Archers traded rapid reaction for advanced fire control and swapped some of the perks around, but didn't change any of the grenade support perks. The core armoring small item (grants resilience) is now available to MECs at (I think) advanced body armor, continuing the Long War tradition of making loving everything a small item because balance is hard. On the plus side it means tanking isn't the exclusive province of Goliaths anymore because any MEC can get resilience. On the downside it means tanking MECs are now even shittier at doing anything else because they *have* to take core armoring as a small item. The small item style of balancing is reaching parody levels though, I have to somewhat agree. Especially worthless things like weapon superheater (LEU on SHIVs?  ) exist for no reason except to make it almost look like they care about things when they're really just dead ends.
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Apr 13, 2015 08:11
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Not a Step posted:Goliaths got repair servos instead. Archers traded rapid reaction for advanced fire control and swapped some of the perks around, but didn't change any of the grenade support perks. The core armoring small item (grants resilience) is now available to MECs at (I think) advanced body armor, continuing the Long War tradition of making loving everything a small item because balance is hard. On the plus side it means tanking isn't the exclusive province of Goliaths anymore because any MEC can get resilience. On the downside it means tanking MECs are now even shittier at doing anything else because they *have* to take core armoring as a small item. Goliaths blow in beta 15 anyways, they get a bunch of core tanking talents stupid late and their aim is a loving joke. Like if there is a Heavy Floater leader with Tac Sense and a MGST Goliath plus one other soldier in range the Goliath has a base -1% chance to hit. Or a nice 59% chance to hit a Sectopod or Muton Elite standing in the open. Yeah. And now you can't even afford to bring a SCOPE or aim improvement because now you get to waste another small item slot on something that used to be a defining perk. Especially since the tankiest armor has the fewest slots to actually stuff in useful poo poo. I'm pretty sure Gunners are flat out better at tanking and literally everything else at this point than Goliaths. I can see literally zero situations where I would want one instead of literally any other MEC. Zore fucked around with this message at 08:18 on Apr 13, 2015 |
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Apr 13, 2015 08:12
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Ok, my first time and early game; I just drew 4 heavy floaters, 4 chyrsallids, and 4 Thin men. I didn't even draw them, they just all rushed me once my turn ended. I can't remember how many flashbangs I have, pray to god it is enough. loving hell this sucks.
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Apr 13, 2015 08:29
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Sober posted:Sometimes I feel like they have no idea what to do with MEC identity, w/r/t their perk trees. You can kinda see it on infantry classes as well. Granted, that's a given because if you start stuffing 3 perks per tier you're bound to have overlap. The problem is that some squishy classes barely have 2 specs, much less 3 (or they try to craft a set of perks but they aren't really successful in the meta). MECs are worse because they seem to only inherit one thing from their infantry class and then the rest of the perks are just there. A few MECs seem to have a rough tank/off-tank set of perks but that's about it. Medic/Guardian is probably as bad as the scout trees, because no one ever wants to bring a medic on a mission except long hauls (first rule of Long War - don't get hit, unless you're a MEC, and don't get your MEC hit unless they're built to tank, and even then, don't get hit), and trying to make a MEC specced to use restorative mist on anything harder than classic sounds like a genuine trap. JL is on record as saying he considers horizontal (each tier) balance between perks as important as vertical (across the whole class, basically builds) balance. A lot of the trees are so schizophrenic because he tries to split balance effort between class builds and making sure each tier is somewhat competitive, meaning sometimes he'll break a full build just to make some tier more competitive, or place build defining perks across from each other and therefore mutually exclusive because balance. I will say back in b13 having a restorative mist specced guardian was amazing on landed/shot down large UFOs. You could easily field 3-4 MECs in b13 and being able to mass heal meant you didn't specifically need to bring a tank along. Instead each MEC could tank one or two shots in turn and then everyone could heal at once. Also guardians were overwatch beasts who definitely earned their place on the more grueling missions. In b15 though where one or two MECs seems more likely you're right though, guardians are kind of crap. Zore posted:Goliaths blow in beta 15 anyways, they get a bunch of core tanking talents stupid late and their aim is a loving joke. Like if there is a Heavy Floater leader with Tac Sense and a MGST Goliath plus one other soldier in range the Goliath has a base -1% chance to hit. Or a nice 59% chance to hit a Sectopod or Muton Elite standing in the open. Yeah. And now you can't even afford to bring a SCOPE or aim improvement because now you get to waste another small item slot on something that used to be a defining perk. Especially since the tankiest armor has the fewest slots to actually stuff in useful poo poo. Goliaths are for getting shot at, punching things and setting poo poo on fire. I never expect them to hit poo poo with their main guns unless I'm using collateral damage to blow poo poo up. If I wanted a MEC to actually shoot poo poo I'd get a valkyrie or maybe a shogun. Anyone know if Run and Gun works with flamethrowers/punching?
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Apr 13, 2015 08:33
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Pohl posted:Ok, my first time and early game; I just drew 4 heavy floaters, 4 chyrsallids, and 4 Thin men. I didn't even draw them, they just all rushed me once my turn ended. I can't remember how many flashbangs I have, pray to god it is enough. Heavy floaters in the early game? How early are we talking? Also if you attack the command pod (the one with outsiders, sectoid commanders or ethereals) they can call for back up and bring the entire map's worth down on your head. Regular pods shouldn't be able to do that, although sometimes half the map will patrol into you on the second turn anyways. Bring more scanners and use them to scout around the LZ on the first turn and set up a secure firebase in case you get rushed. Also grenade the gently caress out of everything that moves if you start getting swarmed. Never stop blowing poo poo up. Thin men are very reluctant about crossing open terrain at least.
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Apr 13, 2015 08:42
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Not a Step posted:Heavy floaters in the early game? How early are we talking? Also if you attack the command pod (the one with outsiders, sectoid commanders or ethereals) they can call for back up and bring the entire map's worth down on your head. Regular pods shouldn't be able to do that, although sometimes half the map will patrol into you on the second turn anyways. Bring more scanners and use them to scout around the LZ on the first turn and set up a secure firebase in case you get rushed. Also grenade the gently caress out of everything that moves if you start getting swarmed. Never stop blowing poo poo up. Thin men are very reluctant about crossing open terrain at least. I mean my first time playing Long War, sorry if I was vague. This is a terror mission and I think every loving alien pod has decided to activate on me as soon as I land. I'm going to have to redo this a few times because holy poo poo.
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Apr 13, 2015 08:47
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Not a Step posted:JL is on record as saying he considers horizontal (each tier) balance between perks as important as vertical (across the whole class, basically builds) balance. A lot of the trees are so schizophrenic because he tries to split balance effort between class builds and making sure each tier is somewhat competitive, meaning sometimes he'll break a full build just to make some tier more competitive, or place build defining perks across from each other and therefore mutually exclusive because balance. Horizontal IMO shouldn't feel like an issue at CPL/TSGT tiers (which is where most defining perks show up, but not consistently) except at the interstitial levels where they should be much more competitive. Or less. Stuff like Shredder rocket/HEAT ammo on rocketeers or LnL on Infantry almost always win out at their respective tiers or aren't really up against better specs. But there's also the problem where I feel like the mod is discussed at a baseline being I/I despite being balanced at Normal. Which means people don't even factor in 'suboptimal' builds unless it can be used to cheese something specific. Otherwise your strategy is usually hard specialization of classes, and then shoring up the flaws elsewhere. At least at this point I figure most people bring ~1 of each class on a mission over 5+ gunner strategies or whatever.
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Apr 13, 2015 10:41
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I really have to instill Beagle's paranoia into my mind because I keep thinking of drones and floaters as piddly little annoyances forgetting that they can still deal massive damage at any moment... ...and they can fly. loving floaters
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Apr 13, 2015 11:47
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Yeah, I was going to try and tough out my B15b campaign despite 4 deaths due to floaters scattering into the fog on activation, then moving back and doing 6 (-1 DR) damage to dudes in full cover. And one failed LR that did (surprise) 6 damage to my scout. Looks like I'm abandoning that and upgrading to 15c. I did get a taste for Ironman though, had a panic chain on a landed scout that left me with an assault and a sniper who proceeded to kill three thin men, a floater, and a muton before taking out the poorly-activated outsider by tile scanning for three turns and maneuvering my sniper into a flank through the door. Talk about pulling victory out of the jaws of defeat.
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Apr 13, 2015 16:04
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New campaign for b15c and for my 2nd terror mission I get a swarming on Newfoundland! Any wild guesses as to where I spawned?
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Apr 14, 2015 05:28
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I got that map in San Diego (or one of those southwestern US cities). It didn't seem right.
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Apr 14, 2015 06:44
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 Landed large UFO. Took my A team. Ended up being 46 aliens. My first introduction to both berserkers and mechtoids. I had one gauss machine gun, everyone else on lasers. My first medic died on the very first turn, when a cyberdisk I activated T1 critted her and killed her instantly. My sniper died when I thought he was my scout, and ran him past a CCS floater (who he dodged) and a floater on overwatch (who he didn't). My scout died when he ran into the middle of the muton/berserker pack. They literally had him entirely surrounded. Made for a great grenading opportunity though! My assault really came through there, CCS'd a berserker 3 times. Ended up dying to a freaking seeker of all things. My GSGT engineer died to what was literally the last two enemies on the map, one muton shot her down with a plasma rifle, the second one blew up her corpse with a grenade. Insanely annoying that one, since they were the last two enemies on the map and I still had one medpack left. My Infantry Major survived thank God, and really carried the day, ended up cleaning the gently caress up, as did my second medic and my gunner, but hoooooly poo poo that mission was hell. On the other hand, during the mission I managed to take out an entire command pod (3 outsiders, 2 thin men) in one turn which was pretty awesome (this was, needless to say, before people started to drop like flies). Managed to capture a berserker and another outsider which was pretty rad, though I can't really do anything with the berserker and have yet to research xenopsionics. However! I just unlocked mec suits. What mec classes are most useful in b15c? I have around ~500 meld in stock and it's really burning a hole in my pocket, and I think if I had mecs maaaaaybe that last mission would have gone slightly better. It's July 20. My gauss weapons are rolling off the production line, advanced gauss weaponry is currently being researched, and I have Mecs! What mecs should I grab/What should I aim for next? The Iron Rose fucked around with this message at 07:53 on Apr 14, 2015 |
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Apr 14, 2015 07:51
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Cat Army 
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When's a good time to ramp up recruiting? Got into a minor fatigue slump end of April with 6 missions in a row leaving about 7 soldiers combat-ready until the fatigue timer cleared and I suddenly had my entire roster ready again. That was with 40-ish troopers.
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Apr 14, 2015 08:10
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I mean it's cool that they have all these MEC suits and MEC classes but at this point when and how are you going to use them all since they cost so much and aren't nearly powerful enough to justify the cost? I'm never going to have a Jaeger or a Guardian, say, because my snipers and supports will do those roles just as easily without huge resource costs and without the MEC disadvantages. A Guardian can't take cover like a support soldier but it's very nearly as good (or rather bad) against a lot of pods. Heck, a HEAT heavy floater is probably less likely to gently caress up a medic in full cover. It's just baffling how they go through the effort to put in all these toys and then they do their damndest to make them as uninteresting and unfun as possible. Yes, I already .ini mod furiously.
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Apr 14, 2015 08:47
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I've rage uninstalled Long War so many times, but 15b/c finally has me hooked. So much more polish and balance, and thank you for your time, SE Asian Male voice actor.
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Apr 14, 2015 15:57
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I've always wondered, what's the deal with officers not being able to undergo psi-training? Is it a design limitation, or a gameplay balance?
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Apr 14, 2015 17:03
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Fister Roboto posted:I've always wondered, what's the deal with officers not being able to undergo psi-training? Is it a design limitation, or a gameplay balance?
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Apr 14, 2015 17:34
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In 15c, is it worth it to take suboptimal perks that boost will over more useful perks? I'm thinking Steadfast for medics, and WTS / Extra conditioning for many classes. I typically make Medics into officers or psykers so the extra will is useful in that case, but what about Steadfast for infantry (most of my officers?)
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Apr 14, 2015 18:18
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Disillusionist posted:In 15c, is it worth it to take suboptimal perks that boost will over more useful perks? I'm thinking Steadfast for medics, and WTS / Extra conditioning for many classes. Psi/Officer Infantry are still very good, just be certain to take Suppression and LnL. They can remain useful in a firefight the entire game, especially late when overwatch is less effective relatively. Steadfast pure will boost builds are also decent for Assaults, just don't make too many. WTS plus Reinforced Armor makes for some very effective early tanking.
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Apr 14, 2015 18:28
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Infantry suppression tanks (stolen shamelessly from Ferrard Carson) make great officers. +12 will and infinite suppression on the biggest threat (and the ability to probably not die if they get hit) makes for a solid fighting line. With the HEAT ammo nerf, one-rounding double mechtoid/cyberdisk pods isn't really a thing you can do any more, and I've never seen a non-flanked alien move while suppressed. It's Steadfast / Will to Survive / Suppression / Lock n Load / Resilience / Extra Con, btw. Take tanky small items instead of a Scope, obviously. e:fb
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Apr 14, 2015 18:36
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physeter posted:I've rage uninstalled Long War so many times, but 15b/c finally has me hooked. So much more polish and balance, and thank you for your time, SE Asian Male voice actor. Dude makes me want to get some laksa and roti every time he opens his mouth. SIU LEI LA
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Apr 15, 2015 01:49
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*implements new item *upon release, is shown: item does not work properly, not fully tested, people don't think it's balanced at all or worthwhile *new patch notes: I think I fixed it along with a few other things I forgot to test even for a fraction of a minute; no hotfix, do it yourselves Long War, everybody!
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Apr 15, 2015 08:09
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Let's get real for a moment here: Not even Firaxis could perfectly balance the game with a full in-house, paid and professional testing team. LW is vastly more complicated and has, how many developers? 4-6? Part time, too. Given the sheer scale of the game, the only way we could possibly expect for things to be tested is throwing it out to the public and waiting for reactions.
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Apr 15, 2015 13:41
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Doesnt mean its a good idea or a good experience for your players, and the latter is really the big, big consideration whether youre developing something in your spare time for fun or trying to make a multi million dollar blockbuster.
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Apr 15, 2015 14:49
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Coolguye posted:Doesnt mean its a good idea or a good experience for your players When the alternative is literally having no mod at all, or no new features? I'd say it's a pretty loving great idea. And if the players don't want to test the cutting-edge builds, they don't have to. B14 is still stable and mostly polished.
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Apr 15, 2015 15:18
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We have this discussion all the time. I think the devs rush things sometimes, but its a beta mod for a reason and nobody is forced to upgrade. Beta 14 is pretty good, like he said. Is there a compilation of b15 class builds anywhere? I reviewed the link posted above and it was good. Just wondering if anyone else has some good class builds.
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Apr 15, 2015 15:39
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Hello, you guys seem to be new to modding video games...
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Apr 15, 2015 15:45
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Dominic White posted:When the alternative is literally having no mod at all, or no new features? I'd say it's a pretty loving great idea. That is not the alternative and you know that because other methodologies have been discussed in this very thread and you participated in these discussions. In other words, you're being dumb, knock it off, these are valid complaints with real solutions that the LW dev team has chosen not to follow yet.
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