Let's Debate the Police and Criminal Justice

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Thesaurasaurus: Feb 15, 2010; "Send in Boxbot!"

Rent-A-Cop posted:

It isn't just the racist shitheads. Nobody likes having the bureaucracy crawl up their rear end. Especially when "federal oversight" nine times out of ten turns into simply producing reams and reams of reports that nobody will ever read and doing it without any additional funding.

Well. Better federal oversight, rather than just more of it. A metric shitload of additional funding would be a good starting point, especially since "gut federal program's funding to cripple it, proclaim it useless to justify further demolishing it" is a time-honored Republican tactic. I mean, I can't really see how to address the situation without meaningful federal intervention, since authoritarianism, racism, and brutality seem to be "working as intended" for a lot of the shittier boroughs. Maybe some sort of financial assistance for better training and retention of qualified personnel instead of police getting headhunted and brain-drained by other employers?

# ? Apr 13, 2015 20:19

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# ? May 29, 2024 13:59

Hollismason: Jun 30, 2007; An alright dude.

Is there even a national standard on Police officer training? I don't think there is. A good start is a requirement for Police forces to have to submit reports on shootings on a national level something that's not required.

# ? Apr 13, 2015 20:20

Obdicut: May 15, 2012; "What election?"

Rent-A-Cop posted:

The problem with training a cop who is that the second he is off his probationary period he is a great candidate for a better agency who now won't have to pay nearly as much to train him. Small police agencies have a real problem retaining quality people because many of them don't pay for poo poo, have crap benefits, and police real rear end-end-of-nowhere jurisdictions. If you're non-retarded 12 months of experience without any major fuckups can land you a job with a for-realsies police department or a suit-and-tie government agency. Doubly true if you're a woman or a minority.

Edit: Basically American policing is balkanized to hell and back and disincentivizes the small players from seeking the best people for the job and instead drives them to seek the best people for the budget.

Serious question: do you think more federalization is an answer to this? As in, actual federal police officers policing Bumfuck, Idaho.

# ? Apr 13, 2015 20:23

Rent-A-Cop: Oct 15, 2004; I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Obdicut posted:

Serious question: do you think more federalization is an answer to this? As in, actual federal police officers policing Bumfuck, Idaho.

I don't know if that would even be possible legally. Although I support the idea of greater centralization at least at the state level. In my opinion there should be more consistent training for both police officers and police management and a disconnection of local policing from local government revenues if not from local government altogether.

# ? Apr 13, 2015 20:36

Vahakyla: May 3, 2013

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20150408_Delco_cops__Drinks_on_us.html

quote:

Police in Newtown Square are looking for a few volunteers - to get drunk and eat free pizza.

Seriously.

The Delaware County department posted the request on its Facebook page: "Volunteers Needed! Serious Responses Only!"

"This is for real," said Officer Joe Vandegrift, volunteer coordinator for Newtown Township.
There is a hitch, of course.
The department is holding a field-sobriety training exercise for 24 officers from across Pennsylvania. The 20 volunteers it hopes to recruit have to go through three field-sobriety tests - horizontal gaze, walk and turn, and one-leg stand - given by officers looking to be certified, Vandegrift said.

The party - er, event - is scheduled for the BPG Conference Center in Newtown Square from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. May 6 and 7, he said.

And the department needs serious volunteers - emphasis on serious - and for the full day.
"It's not a happy hour," Vandegrift said.
The ideal volunteer would be a mature adult, he said.

"We are not interested in people who drink and fight, that is for sure," Vandegrift said. And no underage applicants. "You have to be at least 21," he said.
No beer. No wine. Participants will have their choice of vodka, whiskey, or rum.
No cheap stuff, either. Police don't want anyone to get sick.

"Most likely, Absolut. Not MD 20/20," he said.

Mixers include orange or cranberry juice. No twist.
Snacks, such as potato chips and pretzels, will be provided. Plus pizza. "And the warm feeling they have helped their police department," Vandegrift said.
There will also be comfy couches and cable TV for entertainment.

# ? Apr 13, 2015 20:42

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

Obdicut posted:

Serious question: do you think more federalization is an answer to this? As in, actual federal police officers policing Bumfuck, Idaho.

Some countries do actually do this, it could certainly reduce some issues but would create a whole host of others.

# ? Apr 13, 2015 20:42

Vahakyla: May 3, 2013

I've tried to find another civilized nation with so many local police services per capita and I don't think there are any. There are occasional local parking enforcement of some kind of licencing, but average patrol police is always centralized to a very large extent in other countries.

# ? Apr 13, 2015 20:43

twodot: Aug 7, 2005; You are objectively correct that this person is dumb and has said dumb things

Radbot posted:

I'm taking issue with the use of "overqualified" here, to refer to police officers needing to be intelligent. Let's start with why you think being intelligent necessarily makes you overqualified to be a cop.

Because it obviously does. We have a test, this test claims to measure some sort of intelligence, and the HR department apparently believes its officers need some minimum score to function in their job. Literally any score above that is by definition over qualified. Now, there probably isn't an abundance of people who score exactly the minimum, and the job hopping rate probably has some margin where it's only significantly impacted by scores above some level, and you're probably willing to tolerate some level of extra job hopping to have a smarter group anyways, so you specify both a minimum and a maximum that makes sense.

I've personally been turned down for a job, because I was a dumb kid that thought listing an A+ certification was a smart thing to do on a retail job application, but that's just sound business.

# ? Apr 13, 2015 20:44

Radbot: Aug 12, 2009; Can't post for 3 years!

twodot posted:

I've personally been turned down for a job, because I was a dumb kid that thought listing an A+ certification was a smart thing to do on a retail job application, but that's just sound business.

That's pretty odd considering that A+ is a retail-level certification (used to work at a CompUSA with people with A+ on the floor, not in the shop).

On the other hand, I work at a corporate employer getting paid very well, and they want as intelligent a person as possible in this job. Why the difference there? Virtually everyone wants a better job than they have, and yet it's only in the police and retail where we see the issue of purposefully hiring the less intelligent.

Radbot fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Apr 13, 2015

# ? Apr 13, 2015 20:47

Dead Reckoning: Sep 13, 2011

Obdicut posted:

Serious question: do you think more federalization is an answer to this? As in, actual federal police officers policing Bumfuck, Idaho.

I think consolidation at the State level could help, but honestly I don't think a dearth of smart applicants is anywhere close to the biggest obstacle in improving policing practices.

# ? Apr 13, 2015 20:47

Obdicut: May 15, 2012; "What election?"

Dead Reckoning posted:

I think consolidation at the State level could help, but honestly I don't think a dearth of smart applicants is anywhere close to the biggest obstacle in improving policing practices.

This wasn't mostly about 'smart', which isn't really something either measurable or evaluable. You can be super-smart and still be a total fuckup, or super-smart and still be wildly authoritarian and abusive. I don't get why 'smarter' cops would be better. More 'emotionally intelligent', maybe.

I was just addressing that small towns aren't going to be able to hold onto talented people--people who demonstrate, on the job, that they can do it and not gently caress up majorly. Whether they can achieve that because they're 'smart' or because they have common sense or whatever is besides the point. Talent drain from small towns to big cities seems like a problem.

# ? Apr 13, 2015 20:52

twodot: Aug 7, 2005; You are objectively correct that this person is dumb and has said dumb things

Radbot posted:

That's pretty odd considering that A+ is a retail-level certification (used to work at a CompUSA with people with A+ on the floor, not in the shop).

It's not, but that's not really relevant.

quote:

On the other hand, I work at a corporate employer getting paid very well, and they want as intelligent a person as possible in this job. Why the difference there?

Your corporate employer is probably able to arbitrarily incentive an arbitrarily smart person. Like if a literal omniscient entity showed up for an entry level job, you can just make them CEO/whatever. In my city if you want to make detective, you need to work for three years minimum before you're even allowed to take the test. Sergeant is minimum five years.

# ? Apr 13, 2015 20:56

chitoryu12: Apr 24, 2014

Intelligence isn't a problem except in less intelligent officers being more malleable. What officers need is empathy, the ability to make judgement calls that minimize harm even to criminals, and training that brings more focus onto non-violent conflict resolution and negotiation instead of emphasizing maintaining total control and treating patrols as wartime and civilians as the enemy.

I'm sure Slager isn't a stupid man. But he's certainly not one who can make good judgement calls and is pretty authoritarian and brutal if accounts of his past behavior indicate anything.

# ? Apr 13, 2015 21:04

distortion park: Apr 25, 2011

In Germany (and other countries) the police have to account for every shot fired, let alone every person they kill. That would be a good start.

# ? Apr 13, 2015 21:36

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

Well, Reserve Officer Bates was charged with 2nd degree manslaughter http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepage1...cb4fdabbf4.html

quote:

�Mr. Bates is charged with Second-Degree Manslaughter involving culpable negligence. Oklahoma law defines culpable negligence as �the omission to do something which a reasonably careful person would do, or the lack of the usual ordinary care and caution in the performance of an act usually and ordinarily exercised by a person under similar circumstances and conditions,�� District Attorney Steve Kunzweiler said in the statement.

Probably the correct charge.

# ? Apr 13, 2015 21:38

Radbot: Aug 12, 2009; Can't post for 3 years!

twodot posted:

Your corporate employer is probably able to arbitrarily incentive an arbitrarily smart person. Like if a literal omniscient entity showed up for an entry level job, you can just make them CEO/whatever. In my city if you want to make detective, you need to work for three years minimum before you're even allowed to take the test. Sergeant is minimum five years.

Nope. There are no promotions in my department - there haven't been for the last four years. I'm incented solely by the folks I work with (I like them) and the money I earn (I like that too). It's like that for most people in a corporate environment.

# ? Apr 13, 2015 21:39

Thesaurasaurus: Feb 15, 2010; "Send in Boxbot!"

Rent-A-Cop posted:

I don't know if that would even be possible legally. Although I support the idea of greater centralization at least at the state level. In my opinion there should be more consistent training for both police officers and police management and a disconnection of local policing from local government revenues if not from local government altogether.

Yeah, stronger state-level control with better federal oversight of those actors would probably be a better idea, since the sheer ridiculous scale of the US makes European-style total centralization much less workable.

# ? Apr 13, 2015 21:44

twodot: Aug 7, 2005; You are objectively correct that this person is dumb and has said dumb things

Radbot posted:

Nope. There are no promotions in my department - there haven't been for the last four years. I'm incented solely by the folks I work with (I like them) and the money I earn (I like that too). It's like that for most people in a corporate environment.

Ok, your company is run by idiots then.

# ? Apr 13, 2015 21:46

spacetoaster: Feb 10, 2014

Vahakyla posted:

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20150408_Delco_cops__Drinks_on_us.html

This is quite common to train officers on how to perform sobriety tests on actual compliant (or trying to be compliant) drunks.

I've done the training before, and done the drinking before.

# ? Apr 13, 2015 21:46

Radbot: Aug 12, 2009; Can't post for 3 years!

twodot posted:

Ok, your company is run by idiots then.

I think you're the idiot if you think most people get promotions instead of moving between jobs these days. Maybe you need a bit of education about what the corporate life is like.

# ? Apr 13, 2015 21:47

twodot: Aug 7, 2005; You are objectively correct that this person is dumb and has said dumb things

Radbot posted:

I think you're the idiot if you think most people get promotions instead of moving between jobs these days. Maybe you need a bit of education about what the corporate life is like.

You need to understand the difference between strategy and reality. Hiring people you know you can't provide market compensation for is bad long term strategy, because they will leave for a better job and you will be stuck eating the training costs and loss of tribal knowledge. It turns out that in reality, lots of companies engage in bad long term strategies (yours included apparently), this does not impact whether it is a bad strategy.

# ? Apr 13, 2015 21:52

Radbot: Aug 12, 2009; Can't post for 3 years!

twodot posted:

You need to understand the difference between strategy and reality. Hiring people you know you can't provide market compensation for is bad long term strategy, because they will leave for a better job and you will be stuck eating the training costs and loss of tribal knowledge. It turns out that in reality, lots of companies engage in bad long term strategies (yours included apparently), this does not impact whether it is a bad strategy.

Welcome to 2015, I guess? Feel free to criticize strategy, we're talking about reality here.

# ? Apr 13, 2015 21:53

Cichlid the Loach: Oct 22, 2006; Brave heart, Doctor.

hobbesmaster posted:

Well, Reserve Officer Bates was charged with 2nd degree manslaughter http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepage1...cb4fdabbf4.html

quote:

"He made an error," [Sheriff Stanley] Glanz said. "How many errors are made in an operating room every week?"
...
He added: "It was unintentional. You know, justified means you had reason to do something. He had reason to get the gun out when the guy was fleeing."
...
Glanz said he has been friends with Bates for about 50 years and that Bates has been his insurance agent.
He dismissed the notion that their friendship had led to Bates' receiving special treatment[...]

This morning's 10-minute interview ended with Glanz's pulling his phone out to show a picture of him and Bates fishing on a local lake.
Bates can be seen wearing a big smile as he holds up a huge fish.
"Bob and I both love to fish," Glanz said. "Is it wrong to have a friend?"

Cichlid the Loach fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Apr 13, 2015

# ? Apr 13, 2015 21:55

twodot: Aug 7, 2005; You are objectively correct that this person is dumb and has said dumb things

Radbot posted:

Welcome to 2015, I guess? Feel free to criticize strategy, we're talking about reality here.

No we're not. We're talking about whether a particular department has a good policy. The answer is "Yes that is good policy because it lets them avoid acting as a training center for more desirable positions", not "No that is bad policy because it is unlike the policy of the particular company that I work at and possibly others."

# ? Apr 13, 2015 21:58

Armani: Jun 22, 2008; Now it's been 17 summers since I've seen my mother

But every night I see her smile inside my dreams

pointsofdata posted:

In Germany (and other countries) the police have to account for every shot fired, let alone every person they kill. That would be a good start.

This is an honestly interesting proposition.

# ? Apr 13, 2015 22:44

Dead Reckoning: Sep 13, 2011

Armani posted:

This is an honestly interesting proposition.

Account to whom? Because pretty much every department requires officers to report discharging their weapons ASAP. I can really easily see this "common-sense proposition" turning into another one of those unfunded mandatory reporting systems that no one ever reads.

# ? Apr 13, 2015 23:17

ActusRhesus: Sep 18, 2007; "Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."

Dead Reckoning posted:

Thank you both for illustrating my point.
The gap between white and minority students on standardized tests is a pretty well documented phenomenon. Plus, a heavy emphasis on standardized testing is likely to result in a higher proportion of Asian-American officers, (see above,) and it's not like there's a history of tension between Asian-American communities and people of color.
Again, no one has satisfactorily explained why this is a problem.

It's almost as if their HR department realizes that police work is difficult, frustrating, and stressful, and that highly qualified officers often decide they can do better and move on.

Additional context: New London is a shithole in a remote region of the state with high turnover for all its government jobs. Get hired. Get tenure. Get transferred.

# ? Apr 13, 2015 23:31

MariusLecter: Sep 5, 2009; NI MUERTE NI MIEDO

Dead Reckoning posted:

Account to whom? Because pretty much every department requires officers to report discharging their weapons ASAP. I can really easily see this "common-sense proposition" turning into another one of those unfunded mandatory reporting systems that no one ever reads.

Account to anyone but the black hole that gobbles up anything to do with cops and them shooting people.

# ? Apr 14, 2015 00:05

Rent-A-Cop: Oct 15, 2004; I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

ActusRhesus posted:

Additional context: New London is a shithole in a remote region of the state with high turnover for all its government jobs. Get hired. Get tenure. Get transferred.

Connecticut has a "remote region"? Whole state is the size of a postage stamp.

# ? Apr 14, 2015 00:18

ActusRhesus: Sep 18, 2007; "Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."

Far eastern corner. lovely river and bridge placement. I-95. Resulting in long commute to anywhere you actually want to live.

# ? Apr 14, 2015 00:53

Rah!: Feb 21, 2006

More Bay Area cop fuckery:

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Richmond-to-pay-700K-to-police-informant-who-was-6196766.php

quote:

Richmond to pay $700K to police informant who was shot
By Henry K. Lee Updated 3:37 pm, Monday, April 13, 2015

The city of Richmond agreed to pay $700,000 to settle a civil lawsuit by a former police informant who said an ex-sergeant exposed him, causing him to be shot, officials said Monday.

In the suit filed last year in U.S. District Court in San Francisco, Jose Hernandez said he provided tips involving alleged drug trafficker Jose Vega Robles to police. Sgt. Michael Wang then told associates of Robles that Hernandez was a police informant and, as a result, Robles shot and wounded Hernandez on Feb. 21, 2005, on Roosevelt Avenue in Richmond, the suit alleged.

The city agreed to the settlement in March. As part of the deal, Richmond agreed to recommend to the Contra Costa County district attorney�s office that Hernandez �be protected by giving him a new identity under an appropriate witness protection program,� U.S. Magistrate Joseph Spero said at a court hearing in San Francisco.

Wang was fired from the department in December but is fighting to get his job back, said Harry Stern, an attorney for the former sergeant, who has not been charged with a crime.

�Sgt. Wang will be vindicated,� Stern said Monday. �First the city tried to claim that he would be charged criminally. That was a lie. Then the city chose not to litigate the civil case. My review indicates that they blew a statute-of-limitations defense on a case that had no merit anyway. Thus, the city basically gave away $700,000 of public funds for no good reason.�

Richmond Police Chief Chris Magnus said Monday, �I think we�ve learned a lot since the Hernandez incident occurred, but we�re very committed to the safety of informants who work with us and assuring that we deal with them as professionally and appropriately as possible.�

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/San-Pablo-cop-already-suspended-arrested-by-6196611.php

quote:

San Pablo cop, already suspended, arrested by S.F. police
By Henry K. Lee Updated 3:45 pm, Monday, April 13, 2015

A San Pablo police officer already suspended from duty has been charged with drug and gun possession and child endangerment after being arrested by San Francisco police, authorities said Monday.

Officer Ken White, 32, of Vallejo was arrested about 2:30 p.m. last Wednesday at 7th and Howard streets in the South of Market neighborhood after San Francisco police were tipped off that there would be a drug transaction there, said Officer Albie Esparza.

Undercover officers spotted White in a parked 1992 Ford Mustang with a 2-year-old girl inside, Esparza said. He said Timothy Lewis French, 57, walked up to the car and sold White what was later determined to be cocaine and heroin.

French was arrested on suspicion of drugs and weapons violations. The girl was turned over to social workers and later released to family members. Police said they didn�t know if the girl was related to White.

White pleaded not guilty Friday in San Francisco Superior Court to four felonies: possession of a controlled substance while armed with a loaded gun, two counts of carrying a loaded firearm, and child endangerment involving a minor under 3, authorities said.

He was also charged with misdemeanor counts of possessing heroin and cocaine salt. He was being held in lieu of $250,000 bail.

At the time of the arrest, the officer had already been relieved of duty and was on paid administrative leave for reasons that weren�t disclosed by San Pablo police.

�Chief Lisa Rosales and her command staff are saddened by the events that unfolded this past week, yet have demonstrated by their actions in this case that they are fully committed to holding their personnel accountable for their conduct,� according to a San Pablo police statement.

In 2009, White and Officer Frank Perino shot and killed 16-year-old Leonard Bradley, an unarmed carjacking suspect, after a chase. The officers were cleared of criminal liability.

White has served as a school resource officer at the city�s elementary schools and as a member of the San Pablo police honor guard, whose members are �highly motivated and maintain high standards of appearance and conduct,� according to the department�s website.

Just your friendly neighborhood cops exposing informants, dealing drugs (with their baby in the car), and killing unarmed suspects (for which they were cleared, of course). And doing other bad things that we can't be told about for some reason.

Rent-A-Cop posted:

Connecticut has a "remote region"? Whole state is the size of a postage stamp.

New London is so remote!! :downs:

It's only like 40 miles away from the largest metropolitan area in the USA/North America (the New York�Newark-Bridgeport combined statistical area, which ends with New Haven in CT, and has a population of over 23 million).

Rah! fucked around with this message at 01:30 on Apr 14, 2015

# ? Apr 14, 2015 01:21

My Rhythmic Crotch: Jan 13, 2011

Dead Reckoning posted:

Account to whom? Because pretty much every department requires officers to report discharging their weapons ASAP. I can really easily see this "common-sense proposition" turning into another one of those unfunded mandatory reporting systems that no one ever reads.

You keep repeating this, but it's not getting any less tonedeaf. If a public servant is going to discharge their firearm at a civilian, that is a life-altering event, and that event plus all the conditions leading up to it ought to be public knowledge. You might think the reports are dumb and no one reads them, but that really says more about you than anyone else.

Edit: people do want this information, as evidenced by sites like killedbypolice.net. This reporting needs to be mandatory, no excuses.

My Rhythmic Crotch fucked around with this message at 02:15 on Apr 14, 2015

# ? Apr 14, 2015 02:12

Murderion: Oct 4, 2009; 2019. New York is in ruins. The global economy is spiralling. Cyborgs rule over poisoned wastes.

The only time that's left is
FUN TIME

Cichlid the Loach posted:

"He made an error," [Sheriff Stanley] Glanz said. "How many errors are made in an operating room every week?"

"Scalpel on the left, bonesaw on the right. Scalpel on the left, bonesaw on the right. Scalpel on the right, bonesaw on the ahh poo poo not again."

# ? Apr 14, 2015 02:23

Agrajag: Jan 21, 2006; gat dang thats hot

My Rhythmic Crotch posted:

You keep repeating this, but it's not getting any less tonedeaf. If a public servant is going to discharge their firearm at a civilian, that is a life-altering event, and that event plus all the conditions leading up to it ought to be public knowledge. You might think the reports are dumb and no one reads them, but that really says more about you than anyone else.

Edit: people do want this information, as evidenced by sites like killedbypolice.net. This reporting needs to be mandatory, no excuses.

His whole shtick has been; but nothing will change so why bother?

# ? Apr 14, 2015 02:44

twodot: Aug 7, 2005; You are objectively correct that this person is dumb and has said dumb things

My Rhythmic Crotch posted:

Edit: people do want this information, as evidenced by sites like killedbypolice.net. This reporting needs to be mandatory, no excuses.

I'm in general pro-information, but I see some pretty obvious fifth amendment problems with mandatory reporting. How do we solve that?

# ? Apr 14, 2015 02:52

My Rhythmic Crotch: Jan 13, 2011

Agrajag posted:

His whole shtick has been; but nothing will change so why bother?

Seems every one of these big threads has its resident troglodyte

twodot posted:

I'm in general pro-information, but I see some pretty obvious fifth amendment problems with mandatory reporting. How do we solve that?

Some agencies do report their statistics and they experience no fifth amendment issues so I don't expect any problems by making the reporting mandatory.

My Rhythmic Crotch fucked around with this message at 03:00 on Apr 14, 2015

# ? Apr 14, 2015 02:55

woke wedding drone: Jun 1, 2003; by exmarx; Fun Shoe

twodot posted:

Ok, your company is run by idiots then.

How many jobs have you worked at? Most businesses are run by idiots. Most people are idiots. Systems have to be designed to account for this.

# ? Apr 14, 2015 03:08

Dead Reckoning: Sep 13, 2011

My Rhythmic Crotch posted:

You keep repeating this, but it's not getting any less tonedeaf. If a public servant is going to discharge their firearm at a civilian, that is a life-altering event, and that event plus all the conditions leading up to it ought to be public knowledge. You might think the reports are dumb and no one reads them, but that really says more about you than anyone else.

Edit: people do want this information, as evidenced by sites like killedbypolice.net. This reporting needs to be mandatory, no excuses.

I keep repeating it because I'm asking people to think for five minutes past their gut instincts and maybe possibly consider the real-world implementation questions at even the most basic level. Seriously, who is the information being reported to? A state agency, a federal one? What information is being reported? Will it be made public? How soon must it be reported? Will it be purely factual, or include the results of the inquiry? Since you mentioned an officer "discharg[ing] their firearm", will people who die during arrest due to non-firearm causes be excluded from the data set? How much of this information already exists as public records, but simply isn't indexed and aggregated? Who will pay for the training, technology, and man-hours required to make it work? And, the $64,000 question: what useful information or new conclusions do you think can be extracted from this data that we don't already have?

The Department of Justice's Bureau of Justice Statistics already tracks arrest related deaths and deaths in police custody. They, as far as I can tell, don't currently track non-fatal shootings. I know people don't read the reports, because people in this thread, who notionally are interested in the subject of police violence, thought there was no tracking of police killings and didn't know that the BJS reports existed until I linked to them.

Agrajag posted:

His whole shtick has been; but nothing will change so why bother?

You're a lovely poster and the foremost example of someone who pinballs from criticism to shrill criticism without actually examining any of them. I see you've stopped defending your call for more rigorous civil service exams without comment, now that it's been pointed out how dumb it is.

Dead Reckoning fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Apr 14, 2015

# ? Apr 14, 2015 03:14

Agrajag: Jan 21, 2006; gat dang thats hot

I never stopped advocating for non-retarded people to be employed in jobs that involve the carrying and using of lethal firearms. You may feel safe with a person that is barely average in intelligence to make judgement calls that involve life and death, but I do not.

Your whole line of reasoning boils down to it won't change anything so why bother post after post after post. That and random throwing out of racial tensions with asians and black people and "minorities" not being as intelligent as whites.

# ? Apr 14, 2015 03:19

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# ? May 29, 2024 13:59

Dead Reckoning: Sep 13, 2011

Agrajag posted:

I never stopped advocating for non-retarded people to be employed in jobs that involve the carrying and using of lethal firearms. You may feel safe with a person that is barely average in intelligence to make judgement calls that involve life and death, but I do not.

Oh OK, so how do you plan to deal with the fact that your proposal will further exclude minority candidates from police work? Your last post was deflecting by claiming that I was a racist for pointing out that minorities score lower on standardized tests.

# ? Apr 14, 2015 03:21

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