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Yeah the Dark Eras book(s) is still is a thing. Constantinople is going to be in the main book. I also posted a full list of eras at the bottom of the first page if you're curious what else is going in.
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Apr 16, 2015 01:56
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tatankatonk posted:None of those things are primal fears. I dunno, it's probably pretty deep seated if you live your whole life worrying that the USA is going to bomb you into the ground for being in the same zip code as a suspicious wedding. Mors Rattus posted:Because you know, better than anyone else: there must always be a Lich King. This was all I could see in that whole post, sorry.
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Apr 16, 2015 02:03
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Cabbit posted:This was all I could see in that whole post, sorry.
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Apr 16, 2015 03:21
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There's a fair amount of thought that our propensity for fearing wide open spaces comes from a primal fear as primates of flying predators (you know, Raptors). Fear of exposure is fear of being vulnerable, rather than outright powerless because it's a fear of something you'd normally not expect, something from a direction you find yourself constantly looking towards out of some inborn anxiety. I mean I think that power is really boring, as is the waterbreathing one. Inborn abilities I think should be a lot more broad and thematic than those, but it doesn't surprise me at all that Raptors are a Family. Agree that Nightmares of Exposure is a better name.
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Apr 16, 2015 04:29
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I think I figured out what's been bothering me so much about Beast, aside from this weird mechanical stuff about fearing The Sky. At its best -- its absolute best, the pinnacle of its expression -- do you know what it sounds like? A Garth Ennis comic book. It sounds like a system you'd use to exclusively tell stories about a group of assholes whose sole purpose in this world was to humiliate and then murder a bunch of self-righteous, belittling parodies of protagonists from more genuine -- certainly more compassionate -- media. And Garth Ennis comic books are something I grew out of sometime around the freshman year of college.
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Apr 16, 2015 06:06
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If a bunch of Beasts got together in a group, it seems that they'd more likely tear each other to shreds rather than work together because there seems to be no driving reason for them to work together unless their Hungers seem to more than coincidentally coincide with each others'. Also, making Beasts out of Batman and his Rogues gallery seems like a thing that is possible and would be amazing for a party of PCs of any other splat to walk in on.
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Apr 16, 2015 06:21
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This has probably already been done before but - isn't the whole 'the player character is a monster that unconsciously causes people to be repulsed by them and come at them with torch and pitchforks' something that Promethean already does?
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Apr 16, 2015 06:49
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bewilderment posted:This has probably already been done before but - isn't the whole 'the player character is a monster that unconsciously causes people to be repulsed by them and come at them with torch and pitchforks' something that Promethean already does? Also, aren't Prometheans, while dangerous to the area around them because of their nature, not necessarily malicious in the least? And thus have more room for variety?
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Apr 16, 2015 06:51
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Yes, but Beasts are fundamentally part of the World of Darkness, and
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Apr 16, 2015 06:53
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So I've been running the local Masquerade LARP for about a year now, and I'm working up a survey to collect feedback on how I'm doing. I've got the following questions: 1. What is your overall feeling about [game]? 3. What's the best experience you've had playing in [game]? 4. What's your worst experience you've had at [game]? 5. How do you feel about the level of attention you get from the Storyteller during the game? 6. How do you feel about the level of attention you get from the Storyteller between games? Any ideas for other questions I should be asking?
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Apr 16, 2015 06:57
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Ferrinus posted:Yes, but Beasts are fundamentally part of the World of Darkness, and To be fair, weird rear end monsters and poo poo is a fundamental part of the World of Darkness - but as things for Hunters to kill or to freak vampires the gently caress out, not as PCs.
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Apr 16, 2015 08:28
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Crion posted:I'm not buying it. A primordial fear should have much more personal, primal insight into the human condition than conscious mental creations like religion and astronomy provide in and of themselves. The "being watched/exposed" angle is far, far stronger than any metaphor the sky itself can exclusively provide, and I'm not sure the sky is the best metaphor for being watched available. I think the sky is an easy enough metaphor to "fear of the unknown". If there's a more primal fear, I don't know which. Religion itself is just a reaction to that fear. They could've just gone with that, but instead we're getting birdmonsters.
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Apr 16, 2015 10:38
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Pope Guilty posted:So I've been running the local Masquerade LARP for about a year now, and I'm working up a survey to collect feedback on how I'm doing. I've got the following questions: Which pet NPC of the Storyteller do you want to kill the most?
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Apr 16, 2015 13:23
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Pope Guilty posted:So I've been running the local Masquerade LARP for about a year now, and I'm working up a survey to collect feedback on how I'm doing. I've got the following questions: Maybe ask about the place you play at. Is the schedule good? Are there any small but essential tasks that you do/don't like? What is the most appealing characteristic of this LARP? Which event was the most memorable? Is there something that you would want this LARP to add or focus on more?
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Apr 16, 2015 13:46
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Yawgmoth posted:If my goal is to catch 'em all, would I be a Hero for some hoarding beast, or a hoarding beast myself? You can't be a Hero so you would have to be a Beast, duh.
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Apr 16, 2015 13:56
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So if Beast is the World of Darkness jumping the shark, is the shark the Beast or the hero? (I hope beast is good)
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Apr 16, 2015 14:09
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Stallion Cabana posted:You can't be a Hero so you would have to be a Beast, duh.
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Apr 16, 2015 14:11
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Yawgmoth posted:Oh, right. Gonna make a Beast that is Mewtwo and my Lair is gonna be a pixel-by-pixel copy of pokemon red. No no, Pokémon Gold, then they have top struggle through half the lair grinding on monsters half their level to get to you.
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Apr 16, 2015 14:19
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Kurieg posted:No no, Pokémon Gold, then they have top struggle through half the lair grinding on monsters half their level to get to you. So how would you represent Missingno and the infinite items glitch? We'll need those Rare Candies to get a party to the right level.
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Apr 16, 2015 14:28
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Kurieg posted:No no, Pokémon Gold, then they have top struggle through half the lair grinding on monsters half their level to get to you. Edit: Missingno item glitch is one of those int+academics rolls to remember/stumble into the ritual, a la demon summoning. Yawgmoth fucked around with this message at 14:31 on Apr 16, 2015 |
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Apr 16, 2015 14:28
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Yeah, lbr if you want to talk about primal fears Zubats are definitely at the top of the list.
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Apr 16, 2015 14:32
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If it lets me channel the power of a Cliffracer, I'll pre-order Beast right now. The splat should've emphasized the weather more. You can't get more primal and terrifying than earthquakes, lightning, tornadoes, etc.
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Apr 16, 2015 15:00
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Kavak posted:You can't get more primal and terrifying than earthquakes, lightning, tornadoes, etc.
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Apr 16, 2015 15:03
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Yawgmoth posted:Make a Beast with these powers, then a Hero shows up with the Six-Demon Bag to fight you. I don't see why this is in any way an undesirable outcome. I was thinking more, and I think maybe they're going at this from the wrong direction for the general feel of 'there must always be a monster'. Satiety feels more like the edgy 'THE HUNGER IS IN YOU' kind of thing, rather than 'You are an embodiment of the horrors we still tell stories about and tell ourselves don't exist anymore'. Maybe the better idea would be playing as the Soul, and whatever human you're manifesting in is just a temporary host, a puppet in pursuit of your Legend instead of your hunger. If he or she gets killed by a hero, so what? There are plenty more darker souls to replace and keep going. As long as people remember you, as long as people fear what was behind that killer's eyes, the Soul survives and moves on. Only by being forgotten will you die, but at the same time, fame draws greater and greater heroes to kill the beast. Basically, make your power stat how much your legacy scares the piss out of people and how great of foes it draws, escalating things as you engage in acts of infamy and spread fear until it creates someone who can kill your current host or face down your Soul manifest in its lair, and you find a new host to keep the story going...if people remember you. That way, refusing to engage in Monstering risks killing you by being forgotten, rather than sending your soul out to go make some self-righteous pricks who are just as bad as you. The Heroes have to be a real threat, and a real part of the story, not just strawmen to take apart, or you lose all conflict, like the posters above have said. Night10194 fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Apr 16, 2015 |
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Apr 16, 2015 19:45
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I'm pretty sure that at least part of this is supposed to pander to the Otherkin market though, so when trying to attract those they can't say 'you aren't playing a Beast trapped in a Human Body, you're a Soul who uses humans'. They are instead going for 'Look at you, you special snowflake, your Soul is a Dragon, just like you said, and no one can take it away from you and people who say you aren't one are evil people who are only trying to bring you down but can't really hurt you.'
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Apr 16, 2015 19:59
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Well, obviously. Just the basic concept of mythologized conflicts playing out in the back alleyways of a modern city between essentially a magical serial killer and someone who doesn't quite understand what drives them to take up the torch and hunt this horror is actually a pretty cool setup and I'm trying to think of what I'd do with it instead of 'And then the whole class clapped because I sure showed that guy for tripping into me and spilling my lunch by accident by threatening to eat his skin.' I suppose the other reason I keep thinking on it, and this is completely counter to their goals, is because it sounds like either character would be cool to play! The horrible creature who exists by necessity of humanity's fears and creates and tests heroes, or the ordinary person drawn into myth who takes up a revolver and a flashlight to look for that hosed up monster the police can't catch that killed his brother. You could make a game from that setup where playing as either the Beast or the Hero would be fun! Night10194 fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Apr 16, 2015 |
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Apr 16, 2015 20:04
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Night10194 posted:Well, obviously. Just the basic concept of mythologized conflicts playing out in the back alleyways of a modern city between essentially a magical serial killer and someone who doesn't quite understand what drives them to take up the torch and hunt this horror is actually a pretty cool setup and I'm trying to think of what I'd do with it instead of 'And then the whole class clapped because I sure showed that guy for tripping into me and spilling my lunch by accident by threatening to eat his skin.' Ah. Well yes, your idea does sound cool.
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Apr 16, 2015 20:07
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I've been seeing a lot of people (or maybe just the same few people in a lot of places) bringing up the idea of making the narrative cycle that ensnares beasts and heroes the villain rather than either of them. Combine that with the Dragon's Dogma suggestion earlier, and Night's ideas, and you get beasts as either people shackled to an alien cycle, or self-aware monsters comfortable with their place in things. Both exist to create heroes, to test them, to force humanity to adapt, improve, or die. The only way out of the cycle is for the beast to succeed, to create a truly worthy opponent, and die at their hands. I had an idea related to that: make beasts immortal in most circumstances. The Story refuses to let you go unless you die the Right Way. Being killed by nearly anything just forces you and your Soul into your Lair to recuperate for a long time, because what kind of proper legendary monster gets chumped by being hit by a random car? Being killed by heroes that aren't really invested in you forces your Soul into a new host that experiences the Homecoming, but you, the human part, are dead, and possibly forced to live on as an agonized memory in the Soul. Being killed by the hero you've chosen, though? Built up to be your nemesis, tested, drawn into your Lair for the final confrontation? That kills you permanently, sending the Soul back to its Primordial Dream, letting you and everyone else the Soul has ever touched finally rest - if and only if the hero is found "worthy." If they've got any weakness left within them the Soul can latch onto, if the Story doesn't deem the narrative complete, or whatever other mysterious criteria the cycle runs on aren't met, the Soul infests the hero and turns them into the next incarnation of the beast. You want to die? To end the cycle? Then for your own sake, you better not die until you're absolutely sure the person killing you is as perfect a hero as you can force someone to be. And you better hope what you consider a perfect hero counts. Even if you want to live, you could mechanically incentivize the process of choosing and building up a hero by giving temporary bonus stats that become permanent if you kill them once you're at risk of permanent death. This is all just brainstorming at the moment but I think there's potential for a reskin in this angle.
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Apr 16, 2015 20:30
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Hero Raising Simulator 2015 would also provide a reason for group play and interacting with other splats. You and your fellow beasts have to be a Rogue's Gallery so you can get your heroes to team up and learn life lessons as comrades and allies. Worse, other WoD poo poo keeps distracting or trying to kill them, and you have to sort of help them along from the shadows. "Alright, guys, we gotta kill the Prince of LA." "Why?" "Because the detective's going to figure out vamps run the LAPD soon and I know the guy. He'll be on that like a fly on poo poo and if he gets distracted by vampire hunting he's never going to learn to use his family's ancestral sword."
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Apr 16, 2015 20:40
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Y'know, it has occured to me - everything good about a Hero, a Changeling does better. Despite what the book says, Changelings are naturally suited to be enemies of Beasts. Beasts make for bad neighbors when it comes to glamour harvesting for anyone that doesn't like feeding on fear, and even worse, they invade dreams. That's Changeling turf. It gets even worse if the Beast tries to talk to them and mentions thinking that the Keepers sound pretty awesome. And when a Changeling decides to hunt a mythic monster, they can use Talecrafting and pledges to make themselves into the perfect hero to kill a monster. Basically: Changelings own.
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Apr 16, 2015 23:05
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Mors Rattus posted:Y'know, it has occured to me - everything good about a Hero, a Changeling does better. Despite what the book says, Changelings are naturally suited to be enemies of Beasts. Beasts make for bad neighbors when it comes to glamour harvesting for anyone that doesn't like feeding on fear, and even worse, they invade dreams. That's Changeling turf. It gets even worse if the Beast tries to talk to them and mentions thinking that the Keepers sound pretty awesome. That's basically the same take I had here but reversed: Crion posted:Beasts sound like a much better mid-tier Changeling antagonist than what we've heard of Huntsmen so far. They certainly don't sound much like PCs, outside of there for some reason being rules to play them. And I don't think the two of us coming to basically the same conclusion from different directions is a coincidence.
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Apr 16, 2015 23:09
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It's not really surprising but probably kind of amusing that the two splats where you can sum up one of their antagonists as 'Your Math Teacher, but you were right to hate them' are in conflict
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Apr 16, 2015 23:15
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Mors Rattus posted:Y'know, it has occured to me - everything good about a Hero, a Changeling does better. Despite what the book says, Changelings are naturally suited to be enemies of Beasts. Beasts make for bad neighbors when it comes to glamour harvesting for anyone that doesn't like feeding on fear, and even worse, they invade dreams. That's Changeling turf. It gets even worse if the Beast tries to talk to them and mentions thinking that the Keepers sound pretty awesome. drat right Changelings own. God I hope 2E doesn't fumble it.  On another note, Matt McFarland brought up the leak in the RPGnet thread, for those curious. BlackHatMatt, RPGnet posted:Someone broke their NDA for the express purpose of trying to get a freelancer fired - a freelancer who didn't even work on Beast. They posted the undeveloped text of the game on another site, and it's probably still out there somewhere. Stallion Cabana posted:It's not really surprising but probably kind of amusing that the two splats where you can sum up one of their antagonists as 'Your Math Teacher, but you were right to hate them' are in conflict
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Apr 16, 2015 23:16
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Luminous Obscurity posted:On another note, Matt McFarland brought up the leak in the RPGnet thread, for those curious. Yeah, alright, that's a pretty good reply, especially given the context. If there's enough smoothing out of the stuff we've been hearing based on the leak and incomplete information, I'm willing to give it another crack, though I think the foundation might just not be what I want out of the game. Props as hell to actually listening to the often-acerbic critiques too, if that gets incorporated into the core and further books. Seriously though. Someone broke an NDA they signed, with all their personal information, to leak information that can get them in legal trouble, to...make a freelancer who didn't even have anything to do with Beast look bad. That may be the most petty, self-destructive, brainless thing I've heard in a long time.
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Apr 16, 2015 23:24
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Kibner posted:Maybe ask about the place you play at. Is the schedule good? Thank you.
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Apr 16, 2015 23:38
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I'm happy to wait on judgment until we get the revised text, sure. I don't foresee Heroes changing all that much, based on all this, but hey, maybe I'm wrong.
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Apr 17, 2015 00:16
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Luminous Obscurity posted:On another note, Matt McFarland brought up the leak in the RPGnet thread, for those curious. Well, I don't really like how the game is shaping up, but I can't fault Matt's response to the leak. Good on him for not going all-in on the kind of "listen, it's JUST the beta, it's not AT ALL INDICATIVE of ANYTHING that-" stance that people often use to defend bad previews/demos/leaks/pre-expansion releases/whatever. Here's what I want to know: what's the full story on the mysterious leaker trying to get a freelancer fired? Were they just trying to pass blame for the leak onto said freelancer, or did they think some specific portion of the freelancer's work was bad and that the leak would bring it to light, or what?
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Apr 17, 2015 00:32
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That whole leak thing sounds phenomenally stupid and petty and I appreciate McFarland's candor, though I'd appreciate even more if Beast looked good instead of bad.
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Apr 17, 2015 00:36
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Night10194 posted:I don't see why this is in any way an undesirable outcome. quote:Maybe the better idea would be playing as the Soul, and whatever human you're manifesting in is just a temporary host, a puppet in pursuit of your Legend instead of your hunger. If he or she gets killed by a hero, so what? There are plenty more darker souls to replace and keep going. As long as people remember you, as long as people fear what was behind that killer's eyes, the Soul survives and moves on.
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Apr 17, 2015 01:02
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Hugoon Chavez posted:I think the sky is an easy enough metaphor to "fear of the unknown". If there's a more primal fear, I don't know which. Religion itself is just a reaction to that fear. If "fear of the sky" were shorthand for fears relating to weather and to astronomical/astrological phenomena, that'd be perfect as one of the Beasts' splats: thunder and lightning, blizzards, hurricanes, flooding, drought, eclipses, and ill omens are all things that are both sensible as universal fears and could be easily applied to a reasonably broad swath of monstrous powers. "Fear of the sky" being "fear of open spaces" isn't especially inspiring and isn't quite so universally applicable, especially considering that most avian monsters from myth and legend are also associated with other aerial or astronomical phenomena (the Thunderbird beating its wings to create thunder, the Roc blotting out the sun with its immense wingspan, etc). That, and there are already plenty of animal-like supernatural splats in the WoD; giving the Beasts a splat that's explicitly "you are a bird" feels less than inspired, especially in comparison to the more overtly monstrous Families.
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Apr 17, 2015 01:04
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