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It's outright stated multiple times he's more manipulative than mind control because he can tell you exactly what you need to hear to do his bidding. And he's been hinted at being up to some shady stuff. Honestly, what would make a real twist would be a reveal that he was actually being honest the entire time.
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Apr 13, 2015 09:22
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A man so good and used to manipulating people probably can't stop doing it. The only time he can be mostly honest is on the phone, because then his words aren't catered specifically to your brain.
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Apr 13, 2015 09:44
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If were unable to stop reading peoples minds and seeing how they would respond to any given thing, it might not even feel manipulative. It could be just like having a GPS navigator for getting what you want, giving directions on what to say at any given moment to get to get the conversations where you want it to go. Considering the RL examples of people blindly following GPS navigators over the edges of cliffs or similar bad ends, it is entirely possible that he could be saying outright lies without even being aware of it unless he gets caught on it.
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Apr 13, 2015 13:34
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His face often seems to display genuine emotion around Alison, even when she can't see it. When he turns her romantic advances down hard in the hotel, for example, he seems sad. I think he really likes Alison. I think he's probably completely genuine in wanting to figure out the conspiracy and change the world. He is also manipulative and almost certainly doing Bad Stuff.
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Apr 13, 2015 14:19
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nimby posted:A man so good and used to manipulating people probably can't stop doing it. The only time he can be mostly honest is on the phone, because then his words aren't catered specifically to your brain. Or, presumably, in conversations with several people with various opposing viewpoints. That poo poo's gotta get confusing.
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Apr 13, 2015 18:19
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Hypocrisy posted:There is no conspiracy. Patrick is just one of those guys who can't handle us living in a cruel, uncaring world. I'm going to go ahead and throw out "the conspiracy is really just a stand-alone complex caused by people not being ready to adapt to a rapidly changing world and that's why he can't find it."
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Apr 13, 2015 19:09
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Rand Brittain posted:I'm going to go ahead and throw out "the conspiracy is really just a stand-alone complex caused by people not being ready to adapt to a rapidly changing world and that's why he can't find it." The conspiracy is absolutely real. There's no other way to really explain detailed dossiers about super powered insividuals and eliminating them before anyone knew super powers were a thing. The storm is definitely man made.
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Apr 13, 2015 19:34
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Captain Oblivious posted:The conspiracy is absolutely real. There's no other way to really explain detailed dossiers about super powered insividuals and eliminating them before anyone knew super powered individuals knew they had super powers. The storm is definitely man made.
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Apr 13, 2015 19:36
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Fried Chicken posted:unless he fabricated the files Possible but I don't think it really fits with the themes of the comic. That would kind of validate the whole superhero/super villain paradigm.
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Apr 13, 2015 19:39
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i'm pretty sure he created those dossiers himself while trying to find people with world-shaking powers (and learning holy poo poo they're all dead)
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Apr 13, 2015 19:42
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Tollymain posted:i'm pretty sure he created those dossiers himself while trying to find people with world-shaking powers (and learning holy poo poo they're all dead) Yeah, this seems most likely. If he'd managed to get his hands on the conspiracy's files, he'd have a lot more insight into them than he does.
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Apr 13, 2015 20:31
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Of course, he also still had to get that information, and this is on people that died before anyone knew there was such a thing as super powers. So he must have dug deep enough to find something. I generally don't subscribe to the idea that Patrick is just leading Alison on for an evil scheme. It would mean that everything that has happened in the comic has been in service of the same childish teenage fantasy this whole thing has been busily making GBS threads on. Supervillains are just as ridiculous as superheroes. If anything I figure his supervillain phase, if it was ever more than just a phase, was in service of whatever goal he's pursuing now. He would have been in a unique position to know exactly how people would react to learning super powers really exist and may well have jumped quickly at the chance to do damage control, either with fear or with a relatable narrative, whichever the whole Menace thing served better to provide.
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Apr 13, 2015 20:49
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The question that interests me is, how much could Patrick refrain from being "manipulative" even if he wanted to? I'm sure he has no idea how he would act if he couldn't read your mind, so it's not like he can just decide to act that way. He seems to know automatically more or less how you'll respond to anything he does, so however you respond, you're doing what he wanted. He could shoot himself in the foot occasionally in a condescending attempt at fair play, though it seems pretty silly and pointless. He could set some unusually stringent personal rules about lying. He could come up with guidelines like "If it takes me more than ten seconds to figure out how not to make someone mad, they probably deserve to be mad." But even if he took this stuff very seriously, I suspect he'd still be a slippery eel who gets most of what he wants, and there's not much to be done except to hope he wants good things.
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Apr 13, 2015 20:53
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McNerd posted:The question that interests me is, how much could Patrick refrain from being "manipulative" even if he wanted to? I'm sure he has no idea how he would act if he couldn't read your mind, so it's not like he can just decide to act that way. He seems to know automatically more or less how you'll respond to anything he does, so however you respond, you're doing what he wanted. I believe this is exactly the reason Patrick rebuffed Alison at the motel. Manipulating people probably comes so effortlessly to Patrick that he might view any romance as being creepily unequal and have a personal rule against it. Even if he wasn't also hiding ugly secrets from Alison, which he clearly is.
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Apr 13, 2015 21:21
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McNerd posted:The question that interests me is, how much could Patrick refrain from being "manipulative" even if he wanted to? I'm sure he has no idea how he would act if he couldn't read your mind, so it's not like he can just decide to act that way. He seems to know automatically more or less how you'll respond to anything he does, so however you respond, you're doing what he wanted. I think he would have avoided using the phrase "taken over the world" if he was 100% the perfect manipulator. For that matter, Alison wouldn't be so mad and resentful at him if that was the case. His telepathy is probably ultimately like another sense--it's always going to be on, for better or worse, but that doesn't mean he can always interpret all the information it's giving him, or even always know how best to act on it. Sometimes there is the glaring red "do this" there, but I imagine most people's minds aren't always so straightforward that he can know exactly what to do all the time without specifically ferreting it out. But mostly, this conversation is emotionally charged for him too. It's getting at the heart of his interests, desires, and ego in a way that possibly no one but Alison can. So he can see exactly what Alison's thinking, he could think of the optimal way to respond to it--but like any of us in an emotional moment, he's forgetting what he "should" say in favor of what he wants to say.
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Apr 13, 2015 22:02
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 Starting to feel like this whole thing might have triggered a nervous breakdown in Patrick.
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Apr 17, 2015 10:55
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reignonyourparade posted:
I think he really cares about Alison, and her emotional suspicion or even outright rejection of him is really hurting him, I think.
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Apr 17, 2015 10:59
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Gotta say I was wrong. Don't think Patrick is trying to manipulate her now, he might be on the verge of throwing himself out of the window here.
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Apr 17, 2015 11:35
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Now kiss! 
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Apr 17, 2015 12:04
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I can't help but wonder, is Moonshadow trailing Allison right now?
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Apr 17, 2015 14:05
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I love it when Patrick indulges his villain monologues. 
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Apr 17, 2015 16:46
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nimby posted:Gotta say I was wrong. Don't think Patrick is trying to manipulate her now, he might be on the verge of throwing himself out of the window here. Yeah he is most definitely not some David Xanatos figure right now. His last line seems to be criticizing Allison for thinking sympathetic thoughts about him if I'm not misreading it.
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Apr 17, 2015 17:06
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Warmachine posted:I love it when Patrick indulges his villain monologues. Really? Because I think it's another part of how the writing has gone straight down the drain in this chapter and the last.
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Apr 17, 2015 18:55
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Fried Chicken posted:Really? Because I think it's another part of how the writing has gone straight down the drain in this chapter and the last. Why for? I think i've been enjoying it more.
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Apr 17, 2015 19:07
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Right now the pacing is poo poo. Entire plotlines (Remember Moonshadow? Or the MRA fire guy flat out threatening women on television? How about the Guardians being shut down and Hector alienating himself from Allison? Or Allison herself struggling with what she wants to do?) are being put on hold so characters can literally tell us paragraphs about their worldviews. I just want stuff to happen. 
Unlucky7 fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Apr 17, 2015 |
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Apr 17, 2015 19:23
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I find the world views more interesting than the strict plot I guess.
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Apr 17, 2015 19:27
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If you can't enjoy a good villainous monologue, then you have no soul. 
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Apr 17, 2015 19:31
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Falstaff posted:If you can't enjoy a good villainous monologue, then you have no soul. Yeah, but by this point in this chapter I am monologued out.
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Apr 17, 2015 19:37
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He's arguing with Allison now, but she's not arguing with him. He's so into making his point, that he doesn't finish explaining himself; he's too busy responding to Allison's thoughts about what he's saying. Also, calling the U.S. one of the bloodiest governments in modern history is a bit much. Probably it was just the first government that Patrick ran into that he didn't like.
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Apr 17, 2015 19:40
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SlothfulCobra posted:
Nope, that part is pretty spot on.
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Apr 17, 2015 19:43
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SlothfulCobra posted:He's arguing with Allison now, but she's not arguing with him. He's so into making his point, that he doesn't finish explaining himself; he's too busy responding to Allison's thoughts about what he's saying. I mean the US government is pretty far up there in terms of bodycount.
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Apr 17, 2015 19:47
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Yeah this doesn't seem like Patrick is trying to monologue at this point, he's just so worked up that he's immediately responding to her thoughts instead of waiting on her to speak.
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Apr 17, 2015 20:08
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A Gnarlacious Bro posted:I mean the US government is pretty far up there in terms of bodycount. Modern history extends back to the 16th century, and believe me when I say the US government has a lot of catching up to do.
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Apr 17, 2015 22:08
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It must suck being a villain when you can hear everyone within earshot making  motions with their mind any time you monologue. I can't help but wonder why Patrick is being so offputting with this, it seems like it would be trivial for him to word this in a way that would make Allison agree with him rather than think he's a wannabe tyrant with delusions of grandeur. I mean, he probably would have a lot more luck with just a simple rephrasing, saying the same thing except without sounding like he's rejecting the sanctity of life. entirely
ManlyGrunting fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Apr 17, 2015 |
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Apr 17, 2015 22:28
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SlothfulCobra posted:Also, calling the U.S. one of the bloodiest governments in modern history is a bit much. Spoken like someone who has never read Dick Cheney's mind.
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Apr 17, 2015 22:43
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ManlyGrunting posted:It must suck being a villain when you can hear everyone within earshot making Perhaps because he is not a robot and cannot think at the speed of a computer. Judging by previous comments about how he doesn't consider himself human in combination with this monologue I get the feeling Patrick has a lot of existential angst about how his power renders him unable to live like everyone else.
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Apr 17, 2015 23:32
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And he desperately craves the approval of the woman he's attracted to, who is one of the few people who is not afraid of him.
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Apr 18, 2015 02:31
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ManlyGrunting posted:I can't help but wonder why Patrick is being so offputting with this, it seems like it would be trivial for him to word this in a way that would make Allison agree with him rather than think he's a wannabe tyrant with delusions of grandeur. I mean, he probably would have a lot more luck with just a simple rephrasing, saying the same thing except without sounding like he's rejecting the sanctity of life. entirely He's a telepath, not a clairvoyant  Also he's just as capable as anybody else of getting wrapped up in how he feels about what he's talking about and worrying more about that than phrasing it in the most effective way
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Apr 18, 2015 06:15
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These are good points, and I will concede to them. It is interesting that Allison seems to be one of the few people whom he seems to get Patrick to start looking inwards instead of how to expand. But that would be admitting she has a unique quality about her in his eyes
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Apr 18, 2015 06:35
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ArchangeI posted:Modern history extends back to the 16th century, and believe me when I say the US government has a lot of catching up to do. Oh give me a loving break, obviously he means within the last few generations. Christ, you're like the guy who hears someone say "They decimated 'em!" and says "Oh, so they killed one tenth of them?   "Jeez.
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Apr 18, 2015 10:09
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