|
drakegrim posted:I am not trying to troll, so keep that in mind. I worked at several fast food locations during high school and they do, actually, still flip the burgers
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2015 21:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 12:15 |
|
|
Zelder posted:But ten dollars isn't a livable wage. Surely we can agree that, no matter how "easy" a person's job is, they still deserve a living wage right? If you don't have a doctorate, you don't deserve to live!
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2015 21:04
|
|
|
take the average monthly cost of living for a single individual which is about 1680 a month. this includes Gas, Cell phone, TV, Utilities, Rent, food, etc. to make that exact money a month would require a wage of 10.21 before tax. take the same monthly living expense and add on a 60k collage debt. Just to make payments alone, a person would need 13.35 and hour, but now this person has skills in a particular area which does increase the amount of a wage.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2015 21:05
|
|
|
chitoryu12 posted:If you don't have a doctorate, you don't deserve to live! You want a good job? Go to college. Which you will pay for by
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2015 21:06
|
|
|
this_is_hard posted:I worked at several fast food locations during high school and they do, actually, still flip the burgers when i go to wendys i see them put it in a "microwave" or "oven" times have changed old man
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2015 21:07
|
|
|
drakegrim posted:I am not trying to troll, so keep that in mind. OK. I totally agree that EMTs should probably be valued more highly than fast food workers. However, they aren't in a lot of places; as Nonsense said, a lot of difficult work is paid at the same rate as fast food work, which I wouldn't characterize as being quite as easy (in the sense of unstressful) as folks make it out to be, even if it is comparatively unskilled, by the way. We can debate who should be higher in the wage hierarchy and how to (for example) empower/protect EMTs so that they do not make just minimum wage, whatever that minimum is, later; the important issue at the moment is that the current minimum wage is not really even a subsistence wage. It qualifies you for food stamps, a tacit admission that it isn't actually enough to survive on by itself. The purchasing power of the minimum wage, and wages in general, is much lower than it was in the 1960s and 1970s because inflation has severely outpaced wage growth, meaning that everyone is beginning from a much lower baseline than workers fifty years ago. Everyone's income should be higher; increasing the minimum wage is simply a policy tool to put upward pressure on personal income and it is not all about the actual minimum wage workers, though they will benefit even more than everyone else from an increase.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2015 21:08
|
|
|
drakegrim posted:I am not trying to troll, so keep that in mind. As someone who worked both retail and EMS, the former was far more stressful than the latter. Dealing with costumers is a skill. I've had a medical director tell me outright he'd rather hire a medic who worked at McDonalds than one with EMS experience, since the former teaches high levels of costumer service. Regardless both professions are underpaid.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2015 21:09
|
|
|
Jazerus posted:OK. I totally agree that EMTs should probably be valued more highly than fast food workers. However, they aren't in a lot of places; as Nonsense said, a lot of difficult work is paid at the same rate as fast food work, which I wouldn't characterize as being quite as easy (in the sense of unstressful) as folks make it out to be, even if it is comparatively unskilled, by the way. We can debate who should be higher in the wage hierarchy and how to (for example) empower/protect EMTs so that they do not make just minimum wage, whatever that minimum is, later; the important issue at the moment is that the current minimum wage is not really even a subsistence wage. It qualifies you for food stamps, a tacit admission that it isn't actually enough to survive on by itself. The purchasing power of the minimum wage, and wages in general, is much lower than it was in the 1960s and 1970s because inflation has severely outpaced wage growth, meaning that everyone is beginning from a much lower baseline than workers fifty years ago. Everyone's income should be higher; increasing the minimum wage is simply a policy tool to put upward pressure on personal income and it is not all about the actual minimum wage workers, though they will benefit even more than everyone else from an increase. that is a very good argument, and I can side with that. essentially if min wage did come up food stamps and snaps may go down, however, how well do you think that will go with people receiving those benefits after they get a note saying "because your making more money we are taking your food stamps and snap away?" this is why those programs create a disincentive to people from actual doing well.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2015 21:12
|
|
|
drakegrim posted:2.) Fast food workers need to know how to work the equipment that makes the food for you. There is no "flipping hamburgers anymore" as everything is now pre-made. Managers are not in this example. Fast food workers work in an environment that the air is laden with grease and there are hazards from the grills and deep friers, they have to be on their feet the entire shift on tile floors and other hard surfaces and their breaks are few and far between Compensation isn't solely about skill, but the physical toll put on a person as well. Most of us here have stupid, lazyshit office jobs that basically require us to sit on our rear end in air conditioned offices with blinds to block out the midday sun and the only hard times we face is deciding whether to go to Chipotle for lunch on Friday or that new bagel place that opened because it looked pretty good quote:this is why those programs create a disincentive to people from actual doing well. You're making the assumption that people have a choice between "doing well" and "not doing well"
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2015 21:12
|
|
|
drakegrim posted:$7.25 is a poo poo wage and it should be increase, but i think 15 is stretching it. I am not an economics major and cannot answer the question with accurate assessment, but i think 10 and hour is reasonable and fair. Economics as a field doesn't really have anything to do with what's reasonable and fair, that's the realm of philosophy. Also an undergrad economics major also doesn't have any idea about that stuff. Undergrad economics programs are almost completely divorced from the academic field of economics, because if they actually trained economists no one would major in economics ever because it'd be really hard. To go to grad school for economics, it's generally recommended to major in math afaik. Also most actual economists aren't going to have anything to do with wages anyways, only some industrial organization economists would but plz correct if I'm wrong on that I'm not an economist. It's a difficult system to understand though so I don't begrudge people the misunderstanding.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2015 21:13
|
|
|
EDIT: Responded to Amergin, changed my mind
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2015 21:14
|
|
|
Crain posted:Sorry, I'm skipping over a bunch of pages because gently caress you. in a Chinese restaurant? Edit: haha so glad i got that before he edited it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2015 21:14
|
|
|
drakegrim posted:what you are forgetting is Example: Investors/CEO/Startups require a huge amount of risk and responsibility to business/company, everyone whom works their, legal issues, etc. The factory worker just has to show up and work the machine and call it a day. This doesn't address my point, labor should be able or organize and fight for their rights just like trade associations and similar organizations do for the interests of the capital class but in our current system, the ability for workers to put any pressure on the supply/demand relationship of work and wages has been completely destroyed in the US even though labor was instrumental in bringing about things that we take for granted in the modern working world (EG. weekends, 8 hour workday, health and safety regulations and so on.)
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2015 21:16
|
|
|
ATP_Power posted:This doesn't address my point, labor should be able or organize and fight for their rights just like trade associations and similar organizations do for the interests of the capital class but in our current system, the ability for workers to put any pressure on the supply/demand relationship of work and wages has been completely destroyed in the US even though labor was instrumental in bringing about things that we take for granted in the modern working world (EG. weekends, 8 hour workday, health and safety regulations and so on.) I agree with your argument actually, i was just stressing the way it is now. There are a few companies in America that work off a labor partnership control of the business. let me find it and ill edit this post. Edit: Called worker cooperative Check out this wikii and scroll down to the US part. Its interesting. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worker_cooperative#USA Update: i was reading that the average factory worker of MadWorC makes an average of 60k a year. drakegrim fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Apr 17, 2015 |
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2015 21:17
|
|
|
Generally speaking part of the problem is states do not bind well to economic regions, the west and east side of Washington state have very different needs for a "living wage". But we'll never examine that in depth because that would require data and science.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2015 21:20
|
|
|
drakegrim posted:I am not trying to troll, so keep that in mind. I'm only mentioning this because of the on going Chipotle fascination, but having worked at Chipotle, everything there is absolutely made from scratch and it takes a decent amount of skill and know how to have everything prepped and moving well during peak hours. They don't pay great for the work required, but they do promote internally.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2015 21:27
|
|
|
drakegrim posted:essentially if min wage did come up food stamps and snaps may go down, however, how well do you think that will go with people receiving those benefits after they get a note saying "because your making more money we are taking your food stamps and snap away?" this is why those programs create a disincentive to people from actual doing well. Like, I'm having a hard time coming up with a situation where someone would actively choose food stamps over an equivalent amount of cash that they could buy anything with.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2015 21:28
|
|
|
drakegrim posted:that is a very good argument, and I can side with that. It doesn't really matter how well it goes with them to be honest. They will be making enough money that they won't need them and because their wage is, after all, already the minimum, in what way could they respond? Maybe by reducing their hours worked, but remember, our goal here isn't to kick everyone off of SNAP, just make it so that a person working full or nearly full-time at minimum wage doesn't need the assistance, so somebody working less hours isn't a big deal and opens up space in the economy for another worker to perform those tasks anyway. Although you are assuming that someone wants to live the food stamp lifestyle. Would you? If not, you're kind of assuming that this hypothetical SNAP recipient is irrational/lazy/etc. compared to you. That seems pretty unlikely to me!
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2015 21:33
|
|
|
drakegrim posted:I agree with your argument actually, i was just stressing the way it is now. Yeah, worker's coops are cool, but allowing workers to form unions in their existing jobs is what we need. Instead the biggest employers in this country would rather close whole franchises or locations if there's even a hint of the U word happening, and if you try to organize your shop in one of these jobs, odds are you wont be employed there for long. Or we could recognize the realities of the post-industrial world and supply a GMI, but that's sadly never going to happen here with our current political trends and system.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2015 21:33
|
|
|
TheOneAndOnlyT posted:I imagine that if I were on food stamps, I'd be pretty happy to start getting a wage where I didn't need them anymore. I'm told it's possible for a wage the qualifies for EBT plus EBT to be greater than a wage that does not qualify.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2015 21:33
|
|
|
VanSandman posted:Conservatives loving love mexican food. Oh no they only go to the ones with $2 margarita specials and lots of cheese on everything. The ones with the giant jukebox that only plays narcocorridos at 110dB and where cabeza and lengua are meat options they stay far away from.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2015 21:36
|
|
|
Munkeymon posted:I'm told it's possible for a wage the qualifies for EBT plus EBT to be greater than a wage that does not qualify. There are gaps, the situation should be something graduated like for every dollar you lose .50 cents of SNAP or something, but sometimes like you said a small raise could cut you off and leave you behind. Good luck trying to fix this with the current Senate and House!
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2015 21:37
|
|
|
Well poo poo can't beat the timing here http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3686720&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=327#post444185327
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2015 21:38
|
|
|
comes along bort posted:Oh no they only go to the ones with $2 margarita specials and lots of cheese on everything. Cheese is delicious. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2015 21:39
|
|
|
drakegrim posted:when i go to wendys i see them put it in a "microwave" or "oven" times have changed old man Despite this being a common myth I have never once seen this happen in real life. I ate at a Wendy's last month and could clearly see the grill from the register. Do you have any opinions that aren't lifted wholesale from bullshit, made up political email forwards.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2015 21:39
|
|
|
drakegrim posted:what you are forgetting is Example: Investors/CEO/Startups require a huge amount of risk and responsibility to business/company, everyone whom works their, legal issues, etc. The factory worker just has to show up and work the machine and call it a day.  CEO's don't loving risk a god drat thing and don't have anything happen to them if they gently caress up and tank a company. poo poo man, the worse you run a company into the ground the more you're likely to get loving paid as a CEO.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2015 21:40
|
|
|
Yeah, I get that he's a troll, but does anyone knows if there any proof on one side or the other to the argument that people will willingly give up work time to stay on food stamps, etc. As a poor person, that just sounds... not correct.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2015 21:40
|
|
|
TheOneAndOnlyT posted:I imagine that if I were on food stamps, I'd be pretty happy to start getting a wage where I didn't need them anymore. i know what your saying, but for ALOT of low income its not that way. My experience is from living in a lot of low income parts of city's because that's where i grew up. However, i did rent some of my houses out as well. Tenant A in Norfolk Va received the following gov subsidies at 28 years old with 3 kids all under 8: - 1200 a month for food stamps from state - 1412 a month for rent from City "section 8" - Cellphone from federal - 430.00 a month on utilities from city - Free medical from Federal - Stipend of 800.00 a month for whatever from state Total free subsidies Yearly: just a little over 56k income. Now this tenant caused me a lot of grief, selling drugs out of my home, running an illegal daycare, renting part of my home out to friends, massive damage, dog on property, etc. This is almost a norm when it comes to renting to section 8 and most people try to avoid section 8 in Norfolk if at all possible. However don't go off my experience, just look on social media forms about how low income take advantage of all this free stuff.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2015 21:42
|
|
|
drakegrim posted:in a Chinese restaurant? Aight limp dick. Actually I'm glad too. Here's a picture of the latest order at my "Chinese restaurant" (spoilered for your convenience):  I designed, fabricated, assembled and tested (most of) that poo poo. With my English degree. You want rice with that you condescending piece of poo poo!? EDIT: That's aside from the editing and science writing I do as the "official" part of my job. Crain fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Apr 17, 2015 |
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2015 21:42
|
|
|
Crain posted:Aight limp dick. Actually I'm glad too. Here's a picture of the latest order at my "Chinese restaurant" (spoilered for your convenience): lol nice troll back
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2015 21:44
|
|
|
VanSandman posted:It's the second one. Honestly I haven't heard a lot of hate from North Carolinians about illegal immigrants - I think it must be a thing closer to the border. There's like four or five county sheriffs/departments in NC currently under federal investigation for racial profiling against Latinos.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2015 21:45
|
|
|
drakegrim posted:lol nice troll back Not a troll. That's the experiment I work on. It's literally 10 feet behind me.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2015 21:46
|
|
|
Crain posted:Aight limp dick. Actually I'm glad too. Here's a picture of the latest order at my "Chinese restaurant" (spoilered for your convenience): It's still masturbation even if you use a machine.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2015 21:46
|
|
|
drakegrim posted:i know what your saying, but for ALOT of low income its not that way. My experience is from living in a lot of low income parts of city's because that's where i grew up. However, i did rent some of my houses out as well. You're really bad at trolling. If you actually believe what you're saying, it's not a troll anymore, you're just stupid.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2015 21:47
|
|
|
I once lived next to a poor person who drove a diamond encrusted Cadillac that ran on champagne and lobsters instead of gasoline. Every time they had to refill it they just pumped out another baby and the government gave them a million dollars tax free.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2015 21:47
|
|
|
Hollismason posted:It's still masturbation even if you use a machine. What?
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2015 21:47
|
|
|
Crain posted:Not a troll. That's the experiment I work on. It's literally 10 feet behind me. what is it? i'm an architect, so i love gadgets and poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2015 21:47
|
|
|
GhostofJohnMuir posted:I once lived next to a poor person who drove a diamond encrusted Cadillac that ran on champagne and lobsters instead of gasoline. Every time they had to refill it they just pumped out another baby and the government gave them a million dollars tax free. hosed up, if true
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2015 21:48
|
|
|
drakegrim posted:
How about this instead: don't look on social media for information on this stuff, look up scientific studies which show that many people who are on food stamps actually need them.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2015 21:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 12:15 |
|
|
TheOneAndOnlyT posted:I imagine that if I were on food stamps, I'd be pretty happy to start getting a wage where I didn't need them anymore. There's really not. People who aren't on food stamps always think that they're basically "all the free food you can want, and also you can exchange them for drugs and liquor and porn if you're a selfish Instead, the poor get vilified as scammers who get luxury for nothing.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2015 21:49
|
|