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Roland Jones posted:Are there any tricks to vassalizing holy orders? Particularly for ones in your lands. Also, what are the benefits of doing so? I remember seeing it before and it being cheaper somehow I think, but I can't recall the specifics. Give them a Duchy, I think, that makes them a de facto vassal and they'll accept vassalization.
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Apr 18, 2015 15:35
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Funky Valentine posted:"Even the marginalized Jewish communities across the known world are not safe from the blight. Fresh bodies lie in the streets of the Jewish quarters, rats eating their eyes. The Chosen People of Israel face another hardship. One that may be their last." Everything I've read suggests that Jews were generally free from the plague itself (due to religious hygiene practices), which was one of the major contributors to persecution against them and the accusations of poisoning wells and whatnot. When every Christian is dying but the Ghetto is doing just fine, it doesn't take much for conspiracy theories to start flying. I think the mod causing mass expulsions of Jews, increasing the chance of Holy Wars/Crusades against Jews (if applicable), but being set to actually avoid effecting actual Jewish provinces/nobles would be interesting.
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Apr 18, 2015 15:55
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I think it would be interesting to have the plague interact with the WoL focuses on some way. For example, having the rulership focus is what would allow you to brick up people in their houses, or the trade focus would give you knowledge on trade routes such that you would know how to protect your borders better, or the family focus is what would enable you to send family members into hiding. This gives players more of a choice on how they deal with it.
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Apr 18, 2015 16:03
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pwnyXpress posted:I think it would be interesting to have the plague interact with the WoL focuses on some way. For example, having the rulership focus is what would allow you to brick up people in their houses, or the trade focus would give you knowledge on trade routes such that you would know how to protect your borders better, or the family focus is what would enable you to send family members into hiding. This gives players more of a choice on how they deal with it. Sounds good and I'd put those in, but the way the Black Death spreads is those epidemic clouds that appear on the map, and I haven't figured out how to mod those, as I feel they're probably hard-corded. Regardless, have some pictures of what goes on in the mod.  Due to the high revolt risk, it isn't uncommon for liberation revolts to get absurd amounts of troops.  It isn't fun to be the HRE with the mod. Which means it's working perfectly. (That wasn't even the most revolts they've had a time.)  By the time Plague King wound down in 1315, Italy, Lotharingia, and Frisia all broke away from the HRE via liberation revolt.  Jocelyn lost all his siblings to the plague.  Teodoro had many children, but he lost half of them to the plague. And then the plague took him. edit: hold on, I think I may have found a way to roughly simulate quarantine. Going to need to look it up first. Mr.Morgenstern fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Apr 18, 2015 |
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Apr 18, 2015 16:29
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Do revolt leaders always have 20+ martial?
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Apr 18, 2015 20:03
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Iunnrais posted:Everything I've read suggests that Jews were generally free from the plague itself (due to religious hygiene practices), which was one of the major contributors to persecution against them and the accusations of poisoning wells and whatnot. When every Christian is dying but the Ghetto is doing just fine, it doesn't take much for conspiracy theories to start flying. What was really depressing is that town authorities and clergy tried to resist, and would try to point out how even places without Jews were suffering from the plague, but eventually had to give into the mob.
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Apr 18, 2015 20:08
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Bel Monte posted:Look, paradox employees are lucky they still have their families, they should feel grateful. We've all lost ours due to our sperg-related addictions. Really? It's usually assassination when I play.
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Apr 18, 2015 20:58
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Can anyone explain the event where you find your ward coming out of the kitchen with a bloody knife and then they get brave/diligent/patient or some other chance of good traits? I don't understand that event at all.
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Apr 18, 2015 21:40
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Isn't it the dungeons? Which sort of implies they murdered one of the prisoners.
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Apr 18, 2015 21:41
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If you get that event as the ward, it explains that it is a total misunderstanding.
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Apr 18, 2015 21:55
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verbal enema posted:Do revolt leaders always have 20+ martial? Not always, but religious and Liberation revolt leaders usually have very good stats, peasant revolt leaders less so. Hell I've seen liberation revolt leaders with Strong or Genius traits before. Darth Windu posted:Can anyone explain the event where you find your ward coming out of the kitchen with a bloody knife and then they get brave/diligent/patient or some other chance of good traits? I don't understand that event at all.
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Apr 18, 2015 22:08
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That makes sense, doesn't explain the kinda random traits but who knows. Can anyone tell me why, as the Viking King of Lithuania, some of my duke-level vassals are kings and some are earls?
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Apr 18, 2015 23:03
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Darth Windu posted:That makes sense, doesn't explain the kinda random traits but who knows. The flavor for the choice is usually "Time to teach <ward> the right way" which to me involves sitting him down and going "You can't just stab people, and you shouldn't be picking up bloody knives." Note that if you have Cruel or a few other traits you instead get the chance to teach the ward bad traits. Like Cruel. 
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Apr 19, 2015 00:06
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 Holy Orders  Andalusia and Greece?
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Apr 19, 2015 00:07
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Preechr posted:"The All-Father has turned his eye from your realm. Hel, ever-hungry, has sent forth a foul plague to strike down man, woman, and child alike, forever denying them a place in Valhalla. <Your Seer's Name>, your Seer, fears this may be a prelude to Ragnarök - a way to deny einherjar to Odin. It is only a matter of time before your warriors, enraged in the face of a foe that cannot be fought, turn against one another in desperate attempts to die gloriously in battle." "It is the end of days. The weakness of spirit, body and character that infests our people now bursts forth on their skin, their vile bodies reflecting their sickness on the inside. We are unworthy of a right to enter Valhalla, as we have seen brother fight brother, lie with his sister and slay his father, as lust and greed permeate our society. It is only a matter of time before the sun is consumed and the only light will be the earth burning, scouring man from the earth as the boils sear the life from those sickened." That should be plenty of references to the actual prophecy of Ragnarök, við the small problem that most of the stuff it mentions is just your average game of CK2. 
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Apr 19, 2015 00:19
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Darth Windu posted:Can anyone tell me why, as the Viking King of Lithuania, some of my duke-level vassals are kings and some are earls? Are they ducal titles or tribal ones?
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Apr 19, 2015 00:22
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Mr.Morgenstern posted:When this event fires, you'll get a new trait - Plague King. (I borrowed the Icon from After the End, sorry Ofaloaf, I couldn't find a good icon for what I needed) How about this?  Gif format makes the transparency a bit janky, it should look better in game I hope. DDS file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/o9sqp93t7yonfon/plagueking.dds?dl=0
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Apr 19, 2015 00:27
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Reveilled posted:How about this? Thanks, I'll test it out.
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Apr 19, 2015 00:46
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What's a good way to build up piety as an Orthodox character? My 26 martial Byzantine emperor died in the battle that won the last city in Rome that I needed to mend the great schism and my heir had negative piety. So, only 2000 to go. E: also my character is cynical Alfred P. Pseudonym fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Apr 19, 2015 |
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Apr 19, 2015 01:16
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Alfred P. Pseudonym posted:What's a good way to build up piety as an Orthodox character? My 26 martial Byzantine emperor died in the battle that won the last city in Rome that I needed to mend the great schism and my heir had negative piety. So, only 2000 to go. Got any Muslims or pagans you can holy war?
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Apr 19, 2015 01:40
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jfood posted:Are they ducal titles or tribal ones? Tribal, which are usually "High Chief", right?? Not a single High Chief in my kingdom.
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Apr 19, 2015 01:47
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Mr.Morgenstern posted:Got any Muslims or pagans you can holy war? Good news! I've just been jihaded!
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Apr 19, 2015 01:52
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Alright, I'm working on a way to quarantine the realm. Probably won't work, but I'm giving it a shot. Basically, what I'm doing is creating a decision that will give your ruler the "Quarantine" trait, which puts you in a regency, cuts down tax income, and other things, but should prevent you from getting the Bubonic Plague trait. When you get it, all of your realm characters should get an event that gives it to them as well. Likewise, when you initiate the quarantine, you can enact a decision to lift the quarantine, removing the Quarantine trait from you and everyone else. I've just got a couple of problems. 1. I need a icon on the decision tab for enacting and lifting the quarantine. 2. I need a good tool for adding transparency to really small icons so I don't get that ugly white border around the Quarantine trait.
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Apr 19, 2015 04:29
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Not sure if you're going for a realistic feeling or results from that or not, but I had read some reactions to the plague. Very few groups practiced true quarantine as we know it today (I haven't really read of any, but I know some had to exist). Quarantine back then meant different things for different people. Apparently in some places in Italy, Quarantine meant no touching the body or the house, but you can collect the belongings from family if you're rich (So wealthy people died off more easily). For I think Egypt (? I can't remember the country and I've been drinking, gently caress it), anyway, there was another country that "quarantined" people into holy places. Together. In tight quarters. To pray for days. It "worked" for them only because the plague had already swept through by that point, as someone from another country commented. This was primarily and adviser making suggestions for what to do in their country. Thank God he was smart enough to see that. Germany just...well..blamed the Jews. Yeah... But anyway, most countries didn't bother with true quarantine. If you wanted to establish some kind of stepped quarantine that gradually gets more stringent the more your people die, that might be more realistic. As an aside, will this be on the steam workshop when done? Really looking forward to this!
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Apr 19, 2015 05:18
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The different cultural/religious responses would be interesting to add, to be sure, but also a lot of work; after the base is set up that might be a neat project though. Like I mentioned earlier, the traditional Zoroastrian methods of corpse disposal and focus on purity (i.e. staying clean, avoiding things like bodily emissions) might give Zoroastrian realms a slight resistance since a major part of their religion coincidentally involves avoiding a lot of the ways the plague spreads, while something like that maybe-Egypt example you listed could be a choice that either results in a bonus as a lot of people avoid the plague... Or a huge die-off as someone infected is already in the group. And of course Christians have the option of persecuting the Jewish population because that's a big part of medieval history. Assuming they haven't already expelled the Jews, though honestly they might blame them anyway. (The history of the Jewish people is pretty sad, dang.) Definitely something to put aside until after the main thing is done, though, so that the mod comes into existence at all rather than getting bogged down in this and that. Though other ideas based on historical events would be pretty cool to toss around still. Also if you still need icon/graphic help, I can assist with that. What'd be the best way to get in contact with you for that, Morgenstern?
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Apr 19, 2015 05:37
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Bel Monte posted:Not sure if you're going for a realistic feeling or results from that or not, but I had read some reactions to the plague. Very few groups practiced true quarantine as we know it today (I haven't really read of any, but I know some had to exist). Roland Jones posted:Also if you still need icon/graphic help, I can assist with that. What'd be the best way to get in contact with you for that, Morgenstern? I suppose I should set up some goals for the mod, in order of importance. 1. All religions get the MA penalty. (Definitely, easy to make but tedious) 2. Flavor events (Easy to make, just need to come up with them) 3. Multiple Periods of the Plague [1304-1315, 1330-1341, 1370-1381]. (Will take a lot of work, but I feel it will better emulate it, as the plague IIRC came in waves) 4. Jew events. I'm planning a choice to expel the Jews or keep them and if the latter whether or not to accept Jewish refugees. Expelling them gives you the same penalty as expelling them normally, but will also lower revolt risk. Choosing to accept refugees will anger people, but will give you really good advisers and tech points. (Would like to, but could run into trouble.) 5. Quarantine stuff (would be cool, but kinda of difficult to get it to work.) I may make up some more as I go on or I get some cool suggestions. I will post if I put it on the workshop, though!
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Apr 19, 2015 06:09
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For Quarantine icons, the Yellow Jack you're using now works, though you might get ignorant grognards complaining it looks too modern. For an alternate suggestion (I got no idea how to make one) perhaps a door or padlock to show that no one is let in.
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Apr 19, 2015 06:16
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^^ Isn't there an icon for "in Hiding"? Just use that.Mr.Morgenstern posted:You can actually play with it right now with the link in the original post, if you want. :o Holy shitt, why did I not sea that? PLaying this now, woo! Mr.Morgenstern posted:
keep in Mind adding helath will make peopel die much later, so yaeh. You could just fudge it with events that usually fire to insta-cure plague stating that "you thought you might have come down with it, turns out it was just a small wound." or something. Be annoying if it fires constantly though. VVV Totes fine, I'm just excited to see the world fall apart and try to survive it. Thanks for the headf up! Bel Monte fucked around with this message at 06:34 on Apr 19, 2015 |
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Apr 19, 2015 06:18
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Additional goal: add in special Hard mode version of the mod, for those who thought it wasn't lethal enough. Also, Bel Monte, there's some localization problems for the Shia and Sunni MA events, which I've fixed, but haven't updated to the internet yet.
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Apr 19, 2015 06:26
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Bel Monte posted:Not sure if you're going for a realistic feeling or results from that or not, but I had read some reactions to the plague. Very few groups practiced true quarantine as we know it today (I haven't really read of any, but I know some had to exist). Poland practiced a form of quarantine that worked pretty well, that could be a historical model.
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Apr 19, 2015 07:05
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Apr 19, 2015 10:48
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Has there been any word on if there is going to be a new DLC for this then? Even with 9 DLCs for it, I still feel like there is still a lot left in this game which can be expanded upon or improved. For example, we still don't have playable holy orders (I don't think, at least - there was some way to play either orders or merc bands, not sure which, but it did not sound like it was an intended way to play them). Playing a crusading or monastic nation would be very interesting, especially if they interact with the bishoprics of surrounding holdings and the leader of the faith to appeal for finance, troops and leadership. Alongside that, I feel like barons and mayors are kind of bare bones in terms of actual functions when they should play into matters a bit more. I'm not sure how important mayors were historically, but barons were pretty significant, especially in England, where they are the entire reason the Magna Carta exists. As is now, a baron has an opinion of you and you of them, but they never really play into events much if at all. Once every few hundred years you might off one to seize his holding to maximize your personal holdings in your main county or duchy, but that would be about it. And I almost never have a reason to ever look at a mayor when feudal because they are even more insignificant gameplay wise than the barons, because they don't even field many troops and unless you are a republic you don't want to be holding a city, and if you are republican then you probably built that city in the first place. I never really feel any pressure from taxing mayors to space when I really should simply because their opinion of you barely matters. Another Person fucked around with this message at 12:04 on Apr 19, 2015 |
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Apr 19, 2015 12:01
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Another Person posted:Has there been any word on if there is going to be a new DLC for this then? Even with 9 DLCs for it, I still feel like there is still a lot left in this game which can be expanded upon or improved. For example, we still don't have playable holy orders (I don't think, at least - there was some way to play either orders or merc bands, not sure which, but it did not sound like it was an intended way to play them). Playing a crusading or monastic nation would be very interesting, especially if they interact with the bishoprics of surrounding holdings and the leader of the faith to appeal for finance, troops and leadership. The problem with playing holy orders or theocracies is that the point of CK2 is to play a dynasty. You can play the leader of the faith for Islam (the Caliph for Sunni/Shia/whatever), I also think Germanic if you reform, but then those are specifically dynastic. Playing merc bands - what would you do? Sit there until you are hired and then attach yourself to the main army of the person who hired you and just watch? The only time even a holy order can do something independent is when a crusade/jihad/great holy war is called, and even then how often do they actually win and get territory? If not, again, you sit and twiddle your thumbs until someone hires you, and then they control your armies, not you. Oh and people are constantly borrowing money from you since there's that "borrow 300 gold" thing so you are always too poor to do anything. The reason barons/mayors don't have anything going on is that it would completely kill the engine, the expansion into India was bad enough. Just take the barons, you've got about an average of one or two per territory, now they can interact with all the other barons and everyone else with diplomacy/marriage offers/espionage/plots/etc. Mayors have the same problem even if we make the office hereditary. If we assume one barony and one city per province, you're not just adding the number of possible interactions, since the number of possible communications is n*(n-1)/2 (basically the number of edges in a fully connected graph, same thing.) Just to give an example: currently there are 1437 provinces in CK2. If they all could interact with one another, that's 1031766 possible interactions. Now add in one barony and one city, so 4311 holdings out there - that's 9290205, so the original number of interactions * 9. Sure you have the whole distance restricting thing (that's why Paradox added it in the first place), but you are still talking about a massive load increase on an already taxed engine.
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Apr 19, 2015 15:17
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monster on a stick posted:The problem with playing holy orders or theocracies is that the point of CK2 is to play a dynasty. You can play the leader of the faith for Islam (the Caliph for Sunni/Shia/whatever), I also think Germanic if you reform, but then those are specifically dynastic. Playing merc bands - what would you do? Sit there until you are hired and then attach yourself to the main army of the person who hired you and just watch? The only time even a holy order can do something independent is when a crusade/jihad/great holy war is called, and even then how often do they actually win and get territory? If not, again, you sit and twiddle your thumbs until someone hires you, and then they control your armies, not you. Oh and people are constantly borrowing money from you since there's that "borrow 300 gold" thing so you are always too poor to do anything. Well, we already have playable republics. One cool thing would be playable adventurers. You would either be able to start a game as one or it could be offered as a second chance in case of a game over (a landless kinsman with a high martial would become an adventurer to restore the glory of your dynasty). While preparing your adventure, maybe you could travel around trying to find supporters, something like that. Then after you get your land, it would become a regular game.
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Apr 19, 2015 15:35
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monster on a stick posted:The problem with playing holy orders or theocracies is that the point of CK2 is to play a dynasty. You can play the leader of the faith for Islam (the Caliph for Sunni/Shia/whatever), I also think Germanic if you reform, but then those are specifically dynastic. Playing merc bands - what would you do? Sit there until you are hired and then attach yourself to the main army of the person who hired you and just watch? The only time even a holy order can do something independent is when a crusade/jihad/great holy war is called, and even then how often do they actually win and get territory? If not, again, you sit and twiddle your thumbs until someone hires you, and then they control your armies, not you. Oh and people are constantly borrowing money from you since there's that "borrow 300 gold" thing so you are always too poor to do anything. Ehhh, I think they would still be fun to play orders even if they don't fit into the whole dynasty aspect of the game. Besides, members of holy orders do have a dynasty. They are the children of God (as well as being the disinherited craven and dwarf brothers of the player character). I'm not really asking to play as more heads of religion. I'm not asking that the Pope is playable, because I understand it the Pope would be unplayable due to the sheer number of events he receives on a daily basis from all of the Catholic lords there are. I'm more asking for the Templars, the Hospitaller, etc. I have actually seen holy orders get more land before in a run. They can take independent action, they just don't tend to currently. Also, they are not always debt either, infact, I have seen some veeeeeery rich orders before. Loaning people money is also, according to the wiki at least (never taken a loan before), is another way for orders to expand. They give you money, they then build a castle on your land. But yeah, just throw into the game a couple events to land a holy order with a whole county or duchy more often to get them rolling and they could probably get moving. The issue of leadership is one that the player can solve. Basically make it so that the AI has the elective system which generates a dude, but the player gets an elective from a list of selected characters. Right now, those not in direct line to inherit will sometimes go off and join holy orders. Give the player a mechanic to reach out to those second or third in line characters and suggest to them that they should join for their shot at glory. They come to your court, and then they are one of those who can be elected by the other members similar to the Curia election, based around piety and effective traits to lead a band of crusaders. I'm not sure how you would solve the issue of control, but I'm sure Paradox could figure that out. Perhaps change it so that nobody can control a holy order which is not a vassal, and instead they act like a more aggressive ally with autonomous actions? Also, I didn't realise that game load was the reason barons and mayors are so meaningless. I don't know how far they can currently interact, but perhaps barons and mayors could be expanded on, but their available instances for interaction only goes as high up as their local king? I don't really want loads of events coming from them as individual character, I really just want there to be a greater trade off with them than "Higher opinion, lower taxes" and "Higher taxes, lower opinion", same for troops.
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Apr 19, 2015 16:53
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Mercenary companies could be doable, since you could take land after your boss fails to pay you. You'd probably need a side-mechanic like trade posts for something to do.
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Apr 19, 2015 18:04
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Elias_Maluco posted:Well, we already have playable republics. You still play a dynasty in a republic though. You may not be in charge of the republic but same thing goes for kingdoms, you can be a duke under a king. As far as I know if your dynasty dies out, end of game. I kind of like the idea of playing as an adventurer as a kind of last chance, but honestly if your dynasty is unlanded you should probably start over Another Person posted:Ehhh, I think they would still be fun to play orders even if they don't fit into the whole dynasty aspect of the game. Besides, members of holy orders do have a dynasty. They are the children of God (as well as being the disinherited craven and dwarf brothers of the player character). I'm not really asking to play as more heads of religion. I'm not asking that the Pope is playable, because I understand it the Pope would be unplayable due to the sheer number of events he receives on a daily basis from all of the Catholic lords there are. I'm more asking for the Templars, the Hospitaller, etc. I have actually seen holy orders get more land before in a run. They can take independent action, they just don't tend to currently. Also, they are not always debt either, infact, I have seen some veeeeeery rich orders before. Loaning people money is also, according to the wiki at least (never taken a loan before), is another way for orders to expand. They give you money, they then build a castle on your land. I'm not really sure I buy the "they are children of God" thing, as far as I know if you are Christian then we are all children of God, there's nothing special about holy orders. Also loaning money with interest would be forbidden in this time period. I'm really not seeing what bringing holy orders into the game gets you - I get your idea but I'm not seeing what is interesting or fun about it. I think a DLC which advertised itself as "get barons to start making your life more difficult" would probably not be the best seller My idea is to change the score to be based on your entire dynasty not just your direct line. Encourage more scheming to put your cousin on the throne of whatever and keep them there. Basically encourage what the Habsburgs did. That's not worthy of a DLC but I think it would give players something to do now that map painting is a bit harder. Oh update on my game: the Pope decided to declare a Crusade against the great Zoroastrian empire of Britannia. I immediately loaded a bunch of guys on a boat and sent them to assault Rome, leaving half my forces back to take on whoever decided to land. Crusade ended in failure, Catholic authority is down to 31 (lower than Zoroastrian which is at 50!), Norway is going Cathar and Sweden is going Waldensian. Thanks Pope 
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Apr 19, 2015 18:10
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Elias_Maluco posted:One cool thing would be playable adventurers. You would either be able to start a game as one or it could be offered as a second chance in case of a game over (a landless kinsman with a high martial would become an adventurer to restore the glory of your dynasty). Just gonna repost this from earlier, since it wound up on the bottom of its page: DStecks posted:This has been mentioned before, a long while back, but something it would be really cool to see in a future DLC would be some kind of system for "agents", a la Total War. What I mean by that is that characters like envoys, spies, and generals would be pieces you physically move around on the map, instead of abstracted processes.
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Apr 19, 2015 18:13
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Alright, I have most of the quarantine stuff worked out, as it turned out to be less painful than I thought. However, in order to initiate a quarantine, you must have 200 prestige (could be more, 200 is just the placeholder now), be at peace, and over 16. Furthermore, all landed characters in your realm will need regents as well and your tax income is halved. However, Poles (and possibly other West Slavs) can do this without the 200 prestige, in reference to their historical quarantine.  And Jaramin has kindly made a new Quarantine icon, which is actually transparent and looks more natural. edit:And there is a cooldown on the quarantine before you can lift it, so as to prevent any kind of shenanigans.
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Apr 19, 2015 19:24
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I don't know how playing as a mercenary company would work, but I always imagined playable theocracies would have you leading a faction within the church/state administration, which would function somewhat similarly to a merchant republic's system but with fluid membership; new members of the faction aren't born, but instead are recruited or swayed to join you, and could leave for another faction if they're dissatisfied with your rule. Through periodic event prompts your faction would form an ideology and make rulings, and courtiers would change their attitude towards you based on how your ideology and decisions line up with their traits. Randomly generated courtiers should ensure that you'll eventually end up with a majority of people whose views don't line up with yours, and you'll have to engage in some serious politicking to stay in power. I suppose there'd have to be some modifications to the diplomacy system to make things interesting, like the ability to promise titles to people in exchange for support in an election (reneging on promises would come with something like a -100 relations penalty with that person, ensuring they're an enemy to your faction for life) or the ability to bribe people in exchange for specific acts rather than a straight opinion boost. I won't go into more detail, because even though I've spent an inordinate amount of time thinking about this, it's ultimately pointless theorycrafting. Playable theocracies just seem like one of the few directions left open for the next DLC, since I'm guessing further map expansions are unlikely given how the addition of India tanked performance for a lot of people, and the current earliest start date is already pushing against the historical boundaries of feudalism.
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Apr 19, 2015 19:26
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