Dragonball Z: https://twitter.com/Love_that_Goku

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TriffTshngo: Mar 28, 2010; Don't get it twisted who your enemies are.

CharlestheHammer posted:

Yes that is what Dragonball needs, more saiyans.

Emptyquoting but 100% sincerely

# ? Apr 19, 2015 03:16

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# ? Jun 1, 2024 05:17

Rody One Half: Feb 18, 2011

Vegeta is somehow wished back, everybody is zenkai'd the gently caress out.

The twist is at the end Goku blows it up again for galactic peace. Please pay me the dollars Toei.

# ? Apr 19, 2015 03:25

e X: Feb 23, 2013; cool but crude

I seriously would love to see other Saiyan's reaction to the ridiculous level Goku and his friends and family have archived. I mean, the Super Saiyan was a legendary figure of their mythology, it must be akin to not one, but 6 messiahs running around simultaneously. And since the strongest Saiyan rules, literally, I doubt they would be any trouble.

edit: it would also be nice to see Goku interact with his family.

# ? Apr 19, 2015 03:30

ZenMasterBullshit: Nov 2, 2011; Restaurant de Nouvelles "À Table" Proudly Presents:
A Climactic Encounter Ending on 1 Negate and a Dream

CharlestheHammer posted:

Yes that is what Dragonball needs, more saiyans.

It's weird, every time you post you just post the wrongest things.

# ? Apr 19, 2015 03:33

CharlestheHammer: Jun 26, 2011; YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

ZenMasterBullshit posted:

It's weird, every time you post you just post the wrongest things.

I am correct 87% of the time.

# ? Apr 19, 2015 03:37

Mraagvpeine: Nov 4, 2014; I won this avatar on a technicality this thick.

e X posted:

I seriously would love to see other Saiyan's reaction to the ridiculous level Goku and his friends and family have archived. I mean, the Super Saiyan was a legendary figure of their mythology, it must be akin to not one, but 6 messiahs running around simultaneously. And since the strongest Saiyan rules, literally, I doubt they would be any trouble.

I have a theory that the "Super Saiyan" figure is actually based on Super Saiyan God.

# ? Apr 19, 2015 04:14

Iskanderson: Apr 16, 2009

mycot posted:

Is there any reason why the official manga translation at the very beginning (as in Farmer with a Shotgun beginning) is so bad? Because it's bad. ("Wish you to die?!")

Yeah, their interpretation of Piccolo is really weird. I don't know if they were trying to localize some odd Japanese quirk or what, but they do stop doing that in a volume or two.

# ? Apr 19, 2015 04:57

projecthalaxy: Dec 27, 2008; Yes hello it is I Kurt's Secret Son

Instead of Saiyans or Majins, the next Dragon Ball narrative should focus around Tarble's wife, or other weird puppet people.

# ? Apr 19, 2015 05:14

NutritiousSnack: Jul 12, 2011

TriffTshngo posted:

Emptyquoting but 100% sincerely

"Freiza blew up the wrong planet Vegeta"

# ? Apr 19, 2015 05:59

Rhonne: Feb 13, 2012

NutritiousSnack posted:

"Freiza blew up the wrong planet Vegeta"

"All the non-rear end in a top hat Saiyans now live on planet Tarble"

# ? Apr 19, 2015 06:03

mycot: Oct 23, 2014; "It's okay. There are other Terminators! Just give us this one!"; Hell Gem

e X posted:

edit: it would also be nice to see Goku interact with his family.

This is why Dragon Ball needs the equivalent of A Goofy Movie. Or that episode of Batman Brave and the Bold where Aquaman tries to do a family roadtrip and fails because he just wants to fight things.

# ? Apr 19, 2015 06:09

Stallion Cabana: Feb 14, 2012; 1; Get into Grad School

2; Become better at playing Tabletop, both as a player and as a GM/ST/W/E

~~3; Get rid of this goddamn avatar.~~

mycot posted:

This is why Dragon Ball needs the equivalent of A Goofy Movie. Or that episode of Batman Brave and the Bold where Aquaman tries to do a family roadtrip and fails because he just wants to fight things.

that episode had the best resolution.

BATTLE FAMILY!

# ? Apr 19, 2015 06:30

mycot: Oct 23, 2014; "It's okay. There are other Terminators! Just give us this one!"; Hell Gem

New outfit for Goku.

# ? Apr 19, 2015 06:40

Yinlock: Oct 22, 2008

I kinda wish they went into Tarble more because I love the idea of a weak-rear end Saiyan just living on planet Bumfuck in the Nowhere galaxy and having missed all of these universe-shattering events.

"I am an ELITE WARRIOR! Behold my power level of THREE HUNDRED AND SIX!"

Yinlock fucked around with this message at 07:10 on Apr 19, 2015

# ? Apr 19, 2015 07:07

StrifeHira: Nov 7, 2012; I'll remind you that I have a very large stick.

projecthalaxy posted:

Instead of Saiyans or Majins, the next Dragon Ball narrative should focus around Tarble's wife, or other weird puppet people.

Comedy option: ANOTHER mutant Tuffle thing, except this one didn't end up with all the "kill all Saiyans" revenge programming and somehow crashed into New Namek, where it was thereby raised by Namekians.

# ? Apr 19, 2015 08:13

Zzulu: May 15, 2009; (â°ËvËâ°)

They could bring back the frieza race as the rival saiyan race. I assume there's a race of those guys somewhere and that Frieza and his dad weren't the only two of their kind in existance. With some training they could become a threat :allears:

# ? Apr 19, 2015 12:58

Darko: Dec 23, 2004

The lack of dark lines and contrast in the new animation is purposeful. The coloring isn't really to save money in the way that it's presented; it's to better blend the characters in with the backgrounds and make them feel more like a part of them and less pasted on. The backgrounds have less contrast/lines in order that they can be switched in and out with CG if they want to create dynamic angles or action sequences with the characters flowing in and out of it. So it's mostly art created to blend with background, with the CG portion there to save money in the actual bgs when motion comes into play.

# ? Apr 19, 2015 13:32

Thyrork: Apr 21, 2010; "COME PLAY MECHS M'LANCER."

Or at least use Retrograde Mini's to make cool mechs and fantasy stuff.; Slippery Tilde

CharlestheHammer posted:

I am correct 87% of the time.

I agree, more Humans, less Saiyans. :colbert:

# ? Apr 19, 2015 13:55

Josuke Higashikata: Mar 7, 2013

You can always come up with a new level of Super Saiyan to power up your characters. If you have a human character, you can't top Mr Satan. It's just restrictive for a writer.

e:↓ Yeah, he's just not even close to Satan, it's unfair.

Josuke Higashikata fucked around with this message at 14:22 on Apr 19, 2015

# ? Apr 19, 2015 14:16

Covok: May 27, 2013; Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

Aurain posted:

You can always come up with a new level of Super Saiyan to power up your characters. If you have a human character, you can't top Mr Satan. It's just restrictive for a writer.

Krillin.

# ? Apr 19, 2015 14:19

Exercu: Dec 7, 2009; EAT WELL, SLEEP WELL, SHIT WELL! THERE'S YOUR ANSWER!!

Aurain posted:

You can always come up with a new level of Super Saiyan to power up your characters. If you have a human character, you can't top Mr Satan. It's just restrictive for a writer.

e:↓ Yeah, he's just not even close to Satan, it's unfair.

Yeah you can even see how after the Cell Games Krillin did his best to emulate Satan's hair-style

# ? Apr 19, 2015 14:40

eonwe: Aug 11, 2008; Lipstick Apathy

Esroc posted:

Oh goodie, another excuse to effort post. I don't have my DVD's handy so I'll have to make due with google images.

There's a lot I dislike about the new animation, and while some of it stems from the very obvious effort from Toei to push the new media as cheaply as possible, even moreso is the result of animators that are sadly lacking in their knowledge of artistic theories.

First and foremost the newest media suffers from a severe absence of contrast. The colors used by the animators are almost pastel in appearance and as a result all blur together visually. The best example of this is, as I touched on earlier, is the Super Saiyan hair. They've substituted the black lines in the hair for either darker yellow or if they use black they use super thin lineweights. Compare below:

This turns the hair into a giant indistinct yellow mass, as seen in the Battle of the Gods screenshot above. As opposed to the bottom, where the hair is thicker, almost highlighted by the black. It is its own object in its own right. It has weight and distinction. I chose these two screenshots to also show the difference in lineweight between the original series and the new media. Battle of Gods has incredibly thin lineweights, causing the colors to overpower the linework. This is fine if your intention is to create a figure that appears delicate and clean. But this is a punchman's anime filled with muscles and testosterone. Thus the thicker black lines in the original series lend themselves to create a harder appearance, and is thus are more visually striking.

In association with this is the original series use of contrast in their color versus Battle of Gods. Compare below:

Battle of Gods looks very clean, I'll give it that. But in my opinion the original series trumps it due to their use of contrast. The original series isn't afraid of black and utilizes three or more shades in each color throughout the figure. Whereas Battle of Gods only uses exactly two shades of each color and zero black. The reason for this is, of course, money. Two colors are cheaper. But even acknowledging that, a good artist could still take those colors and create more contrast between them, so the excuse that animators are shackled by how many colors they can use only goes so far.

On top of this, as you can see in the BoG SSj3 screenshot, the colorists just love to slap giant white highlights throughout the figure, as seen on Goku's arms and face, where a lighter shade of the surrounding color would have sufficed. As opposed to the original series shot where the white highlights are used very sparingly, usually along the very edge of a shape, which creates a more lifelike stark edge between the highest contrasts and the lowest. The colorists for BoG prefer to mark out large, expansive shapes with their color (due to the fact that they can only use two shades for each) and they use the white to fill in the leftover open spots. As opposed to the original series use of color to sculpt smaller, more detailed shapes creating a more visually distinct image with more depth. The original series use of highly saturated colors and blacks also makes the characters dominate the scenes they appear in. Whereas BoG's use of desaturated pastel-esque colors cause them to almost blend in with the backgrounds.

The result of BoG's color and line choices creates characters that appear plastic and weak. They have no weight to them and the various details all blend together. Try looking at each screenshot with your eyes squinted. The BoG screenshots become a mass of color. A giant rainbow bruise. Whereas the original series screens still hold together, you can see exactly where the lightsource resides and the darkest shapes help to keep the figure solid.

There isn't much to be said of their use of CG for some scenes. It's a blatant attempt to keep costs down. Animating the aura's and mechanical objects are time consuming and difficult. So in order to save money they instead throw in a CG model that can be created for half the effort and time. Also Goku's CG aura after receiving God Ki is horrible, especially when compared to the similarly red aura of the Kaoiken. The God aura looks subdued, weak. It's too delicate in appearance and not visually striking. Whereas the Kaioken aura frames the character, draws your eye in, and does it all while being visually powerful. Notice that weakness is a recurring theme in the new animation.

On top of all this the actual movement of the characters is also less fluid than the original series. Why? Fewer frames. The less they have to animate, the more money they save. So characters make precise, short movements and spend a lot of time standing still or going from one pose to another very similar pose because its cheaper to animate someone moving slightly to the left as opposed to animating someone dropping down into a crouch, or displaying a flurry of limbs in combat. We will never again see something like Trunks' Burning Attack from his fight with Freeza. Because things like that cost money. The best we'll get is "arms at sides, arms move straight up". Because that's a hell of a lot cheaper.

the new stuff looks better

# ? Apr 19, 2015 15:13

Raserys: Aug 22, 2011; IT'S YA BOY

Zzulu posted:

They could bring back the frieza race as the rival saiyan race. I assume there's a race of those guys somewhere and that Frieza and his dad weren't the only two of their kind in existance. With some training they could become a threat

King Cold and Sons were bizarrely strong mutants who were also unusually evil, I hope if the rest of their race shows up, they thank Goku for killing those assholes and hang out on Earth.

# ? Apr 19, 2015 16:21

e X: Feb 23, 2013; cool but crude

Esroc posted:

Art Stuff

Great post. I generally like the old, pre-computer colouring a lot more than modern stuff, not just here but in anime and comics in general, so I definitely see where you are coming from.

Also, Xibanya, there seems to be a general sentiment among fans that the art of Dragonball got worse, or at least less refined as the series went on, with less dynamic and only very bare bone backgrounds, do you have something on that?

# ? Apr 19, 2015 16:46

Xibanya: Sep 17, 2012; Clever Betty

e X posted:

Also, Xibanya, there seems to be a general sentiment among fans that the art of Dragonball got worse, or at least less refined as the series went on, with less dynamic and only very bare bone backgrounds, do you have something on that?

Sure! I actually happen to have most of the android chapters physically so that should help. I'll take a peek later today.

I actually remember reading the Gotenks fight some time ago and thinking "this is sub-par art" but I'll have to look back with the intent of actually articulating why. Sorry Gotenks fans! At least Toriyama's mediocre is still better than 90% of everyone else.

# ? Apr 19, 2015 16:56

Oxxidation: Jul 22, 2007

Eonwe posted:

the new stuff looks better

It really does, those old-show screenshots look crazy ugly.

# ? Apr 19, 2015 17:19

Mordaedil: Oct 25, 2007; Oh wow, cool. Good job.
So?; Grimey Drawer

I could swear those old show screenshots actually looked better in their Japanese release, because I think a lot of them got "darkened" when carried over to America.

At least that is the impression I get from watching subs vs. dubs.

# ? Apr 19, 2015 18:17

Zedd: Jul 6, 2009; I mean, who would have noticed another madman around here?

e X posted:

I seriously would love to see other Saiyan's reaction to the ridiculous level Goku and his friends and family have archived. I mean, the Super Saiyan was a legendary figure of their mythology, it must be akin to not one, but 6 messiahs running around simultaneously. And since the strongest Saiyan rules, literally, I doubt they would be any trouble.

You are the one that has achieved the legend?
Wait there are more of you??
Wait, you can go even further???
Wait, your hair does what now?
Now he slimmed down and turned red..?
Blue? Really...what's next. red fur skin?

# ? Apr 19, 2015 18:17

SirDrone: Jul 23, 2013; I am so sick of these star wars

I like that I saw purple Guldo, blue Jeice and the first Frieza goon Vegeta blew up.

# ? Apr 19, 2015 18:22

facebook jihad: Dec 18, 2007; by R. Guyovich

I agree with Esroc, the digital look just looks cheaper than the handdrawn stuff of the old days. It kind of reminds me of new Simpsons episodes to an extent, and I don't think anyone would argue in favor of the new Simpsons animations against the old. And come on, that SSG effect is awful no matter how you look at it.

As for debates about what DB movies need to do going forward, they need new content and story arcs. Open up those multiverses or whatever. Even though honestly that's not really necessary. I kinda hate that the Buu Saga and the new movies seem to have restrained the strength of the universe DB takes place in. Sure, Freeza was really strong, but there was nothing to suggest something else out there wasn't stronger or at least on par with the protagonists until these gods said it themselves. I know most of these "we need more saiyans" posts are probably said in jest. But goddam do you really want Dragon Ball to fall into the tired american comic book format of the same poo poo over and over again?

E: DBM, for all its flaws, at least has injected a couple of creative new elements, such as Gast and those guys who have acquired "magical nanotechnology" or whatever. Dragon Ball needs more of that.

facebook jihad fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Apr 19, 2015

# ? Apr 19, 2015 18:23

Twiddy: May 17, 2008; To the man who loves art for its own sake, it is frequently in its least important and lowliest manifestations that the keenest pleasure is to be derived.

SirDrone posted:

I like that I saw purple Guldo, blue Jeice and the first Frieza goon Vegeta blew up.

"Who?"
"Purple guy. Hates Vegeta."
"Gonna have to be a little more specific."

# ? Apr 19, 2015 18:24

facebook jihad: Dec 18, 2007; by R. Guyovich

So, after following this thread and the old one for a while, I think I've finally come up with a crackpot theory that kind of explains my biggest issue with the series (outside of the boring General Blue arc): the insane power jumps in the Freeza saga. I'm going to put my sperg cap on for a minute, so forgive me.

A post a while back suggested that power levels don't necessarily increase linearly with actual strength. Thinking about it, that actually makes a lot of sense and puts the creep in context. Say that power levels gauge strength on something similar to a logarithmic scale/curve, wherein strength and power level vary linearly at low levels that the Freeza army are experienced with (say, low level soldiers to the Ginyu Force). This can be explained with the fact Freeza's technology is adapted to easily read these levels. Higher power levels are less likely to be monitored/detected, so the reliability on the existing technology to read these levels is much worse. This could lead to a logarithmic curve, where variation in power level (x-axis) does not yield a substantial variance in actual strength (y-axis). I have no doubt that Freeza has a power level of 537,000 in first form and over a million in the second form, but there's probably a point where these power levels sort of plateau and do not represent total strength. In other words. A power level of 50,000 compared to 10,000 is impressive, but a power level of 1,000,000 compared to 750,000 may not be quite as big a gap in terms of actual strength This would explain how high power ups with respect to Vegeta and Goku's zenkais and Piccolo's fusion with Nail can inexplicably put them in the ball park with Freeza's respective forms when his stated power level is so incomprehensibly big. Goku's SSJ transformation, which would be a 50x multiplier in terms of strength, then could easily beat Freeza.

Again this is a stupid theory; but if we're going to put up detailed explanations of the art of Dragon Ball, I think crackpot conspiracy theories that explain the story a bit better fit too. I'll put this with my theory about Goku's consumption of the divine holy water being the key step in eventually allowing him to be the champion of the universe he is at the end of the series.

# ? Apr 19, 2015 18:44

Mordaedil: Oct 25, 2007; Oh wow, cool. Good job.
So?; Grimey Drawer

You are literally two steps away from saying "power levels are bullshit".

# ? Apr 19, 2015 18:59

Thyrork: Apr 21, 2010; "COME PLAY MECHS M'LANCER."

Or at least use Retrograde Mini's to make cool mechs and fantasy stuff.; Slippery Tilde

I've written my ideas for "A wonderful world full of augmented humanoids." before, I'd love it if the next movie deals with that as a core concept.

Suddenly you have a world full of super powered people and all the drama that'd cause! :allears:

And Mr Satan, HERO OF EARTH actually has the powers he continues to refuse to believe in! :magical:

The crew tour the planet helping the people who deserve it and stopping the bad ones! You meet people who ultimately, even with the kind of power that Freiza's men use to enslave worlds, They'd rather be farming! The Dragonballs themselves become hotly contested by the rising stars!

And it all caps off with a tournament, possibly with the original crew entering in promising new stars!

Meanwhile Beerus on the sidelines, calmly explaining to Goku that this is how the greatest of empires start and its now upto him and Vegeta to "Keep them proper, or else."

Edit: Unrelated to all that, what an interesting yet not unexpected turn of events DBM has taken!

Thyrork fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Apr 19, 2015

# ? Apr 19, 2015 19:09

Rirse: May 7, 2006; by R. Guyovich

I am up to the King Piccolo Saga, and I can't believe Yajirobe was actually strong as Goku. So used to him being avoiding fights at all cost and only around to give out Senzu Beans.

# ? Apr 19, 2015 19:50

projecthalaxy: Dec 27, 2008; Yes hello it is I Kurt's Secret Son

It's cool how at almost any moment until the one he came on screen, Cui could have captured and overtaken Earth. I want to see the universe where that happens.

# ? Apr 19, 2015 19:52

mabels big day: Feb 25, 2012

Rirse posted:

I am up to the King Piccolo Saga, and I can't believe Yajirobe was actually strong as Goku. So used to him being avoiding fights at all cost and only around to give out Senzu Beans.

He's basically a strong caveman guy who just likes eating monsters.

# ? Apr 19, 2015 19:56

Raserys: Aug 22, 2011; IT'S YA BOY

Yajirobe saved the Earth from Vegeta.

# ? Apr 19, 2015 20:06

jivjov: Sep 13, 2007; But how does it taste? Yummy!; Dinosaur Gum

facebook jihad posted:

And come on, that SSG effect is awful no matter how you look at it.

This keeps getting brought up, and I'm going to keep refuting it. I absolutely love the God aura. Just as a visual effect it's nothing terribly special, rather standard...but as a contrast to normal DBZ auras, it has its own very distinct feel to it.

# ? Apr 19, 2015 20:12

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# ? Jun 1, 2024 05:17

Rirse: May 7, 2006; by R. Guyovich

Man Tambourine was actually a pretty dangerous henchmen. Especially him just going around casually murdering all the named martial artists throughout the show.

# ? Apr 19, 2015 20:17

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > VEGETA > Dragonball Z: https://twitter.com/Love_that_Goku

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