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I find the role that Nay and unnamed cameo have in Sarly's mindscape interesting. I don't think Sarly would give those "villain" roles to non-friends  Although, how do the mechanics for a multiple dive work here? Because Cass was not behaving like a diver, more like a divee. Basically, why is Cass not bothering with the dive and simply perfectly roleplaying along with the standard cosmosphere shenanigans? EDIT: update last page
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Apr 20, 2015 00:13
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Omobono posted:I find the role that Nay and unnamed cameo have in Sarly's mindscape interesting. I don't think Sarly would give those "villain" roles to non-friends So, Prime kind of explained it. She's closer to Sarly and thus better integrated into the plot of the world than Delta is, which in turn is giving her a role to play in the overall plot of things. Keep in mind we're still Diving into Cass, we're just going to Sarly's mind from there. Feinne fucked around with this message at 00:30 on Apr 20, 2015 |
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Apr 20, 2015 00:24
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Omobono posted:I find the role that Nay and unnamed cameo have in Sarly's mindscape interesting. I don't think Sarly would give those "villain" roles to non-friends It's Delta diving into Cass and Sarly's chained genometrics, rather than Delta and Cass diving into Sarly's genometrics. I think it was explained much better earlier in the thread that Ar tonelico's cosmospheres were insight into a person's mind, while Ar noSurge's genometrics are an insight into a relationship. So yeah, Cass isn't a diver, she's a divee along with Sarly.
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Apr 20, 2015 00:31
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It really seems like Cass is the actual main character. Why aren't we playing as her instead of Amnesia McCipher here?
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Apr 20, 2015 03:46
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Now I am confused about the Prim and Prime thing.
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Apr 20, 2015 04:06
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MonsterEnvy posted:Now I am confused about the Prim and Prime thing. I'm confused as to why Delta doesn't point it out. Two people who look the same, have nearly the same name but act entirely differently, both apparently born from Delta and Cass' minds. Delta, the only one aware of the existance of both, at no point says anything about it. You'd think he would at least react to Prim when he meets her first, or ask Prime about it after, but nope. Hell, I seriously thought he didn't recognise Nay on this update. He acted as if he had no idea who she was, then called her by name randomly. I guess he realized that he had another "Sergeant Catty" on his hands, but it could've been made a lot clearer by just having Delta give it one line, like "This person looks like Nay, but this is Genometrics so it's likely not her, just like how Catty was not Sarly".
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Apr 20, 2015 04:16
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FractalSandwich posted:It really seems like Cass is the actual main character. Why aren't we playing as her instead of Amnesia McCipher here? Because  ?Most likely though I'd assume it's to use his perspective to dripfeed the viewer important details of the plot.
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Apr 20, 2015 04:18
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Omobono posted:I find the role that Nay and unnamed cameo have in Sarly's mindscape interesting. I don't think Sarly would give those "villain" roles to non-friends Actually the cameo characters name was dropped by blondie in the cowboy hat though I guess it was easy enough to miss.
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Apr 20, 2015 04:19
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 What's up with this SIOM grid? Do the positions of people on the grid mean anything?
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Apr 20, 2015 04:44
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Kurieg posted:
It's Sadism, Introversion, Outgoingness, and Masochism. IIRC moving your icon nearer someone else's boosts the power of the spell you get from them.
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Apr 20, 2015 04:46
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wdarkk posted:It's Sadism, Introversion, Outgoingness, and Masochism.
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Apr 20, 2015 05:02
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It also will actually change the in-battle vocals from the heroine. For example, it's super easy to say push Cass into the O/S corner with the DLC Genometrics, at which point she starts saying some quite rude things in battle. Delta doesn't question the whole Prim/Prime thing probably because while they look the same they act completely different. Also, the heroines are definitely the actual main characters this time. We're playing as Delta for Reasons which will become clear later. Feinne fucked around with this message at 05:21 on Apr 20, 2015 |
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Apr 20, 2015 05:17
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How do you move it though? Options you've picked in the Genometrics or the spells you've got equipped?
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Apr 20, 2015 05:21
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Check out the screens where Delta gives an answer, there are little arrows towards where the answer will move the personalities on the grid. Using song magic in battle also moves them slightly depending on where the song is on the grid. And on the extreme sides the battle vocals are pretty much always rude. Edit: In this one for example it will move Sarly more towards the outroverted side of the grid. 
FrickenMoron fucked around with this message at 05:25 on Apr 20, 2015 |
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Apr 20, 2015 05:22
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wdarkk posted:It's Sadism, Introversion, Outgoingness, and Masochism. IIRC moving your icon nearer someone else's boosts the power of the spell you get from them. It also provides different extra effects depending on which direction the spell is skewed in. Can't quite remember off the top of my head, but I believe being off towards Introverted boosts your defense, while being towards Outgoing boosts the support spell attack power (the minor attacks that Cass throws out mid battle). Things like that.
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Apr 20, 2015 06:32
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I imagine there's someone out there who's devoted hours towards turning everyone into Outgoing Masochists so all of Cass' spells will be super powerful *and* She gets to swear like a sailor.
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Apr 20, 2015 07:05
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Icedude posted:It also provides different extra effects depending on which direction the spell is skewed in. Can't quite remember off the top of my head, but I believe being off towards Introverted boosts your defense, while being towards Outgoing boosts the support spell attack power (the minor attacks that Cass throws out mid battle). Things like that. It depends on the Song I think what benefit you get from personality. It's all weird and poorly documented because everything in these games is that way. Like seriously that's one of the few things I really need to vent about getting irritated with in the series, the mechanics are incredibly opaque to the point of it being difficult to really get what you should be doing with your equipment at times. It's present at varying levels throughout the series but Ar Nosurge is probably the biggest offender (especially since it seems the TxBIOS are bugged as well). Feinne fucked around with this message at 08:27 on Apr 20, 2015 |
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Apr 20, 2015 08:25
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I actually played the game up to the 4th or 5th boss without knowing how to change equipment, or rather what your equipment actually does. I was confused by how hard everything was up to that point. 
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Apr 20, 2015 17:25
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Update tomorrow with the end of the Dive. I've got a BUNCH of shop and purification stuff, so next update might be some of Sarly's shop content (since it'll be introduced to us by the plot and is a bit more immediately plot-adjacent than Nay's). This depends on what things are looking like after I get some actual plot recorded tonight. I need to see what makes sense as far as breaking things up.
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Apr 21, 2015 01:32
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Feinne posted:I need to see what makes sense as far as breaking things up. Your statement assumes this game makes sense. Which, so far, it is lacking. I hope for a change!
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Apr 21, 2015 01:34
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berryjon posted:Your statement assumes this game makes sense. Oh long term it all makes perfect sense (well, the plot anyway, if you're talking on an existential level that's a bit more thorny) but some things are going to be quite confusing for a while. The payoff once you realize what's going on is actually pretty good though.
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Apr 21, 2015 01:55
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Feinne posted:Update tomorrow with the end of the Dive. I've got a BUNCH of shop and purification stuff, so next update might be some of Sarly's shop content (since it'll be introduced to us by the plot and is a bit more immediately plot-adjacent than Nay's). This depends on what things are looking like after I get some actual plot recorded tonight. I need to see what makes sense as far as breaking things up. At this point right now we are at six plot episodes to five non-plot episodes - three geometrics and two shop scenes. You want to go to to 6:7 (maybe 7:7 if you're being generous and count the Sarly one as plot-related). That is an extremely high ratio of plot:non-plot. I'm not the first person to complain about the high number of shop scenes. Maybe they change the ending, but that doesn't stop them from dragging the pacing face-first along the pavement at high speed. Question for the thread readers: have any of you laughed or cracked a smile at the Nay shop scenes? Even a little one?
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Apr 21, 2015 02:04
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:At this point right now we are at six plot episodes to five non-plot episodes - three geometrics and two shop scenes. This is exactly why I'm really wanting to try and get a full plot update for next time. What you might get is a full plot this time followed by as much side content as I can reasonably get in a post because of circumstances with what the game's plot is going to do. I really want to get Delta and Cass' side content done before we switch to Ion. Feinne fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Apr 21, 2015 |
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Apr 21, 2015 02:08
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In other news, GUST apparently did some sort of Surge Concerto broadcast and confirmed they're working on a new game in the series 
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Apr 21, 2015 02:18
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:At this point right now we are at six plot episodes to five non-plot episodes - three geometrics and two shop scenes. I enjoy the Genometrics Scenes because they're more directly related to the plot. But I usually skip over the shop sequences because they seem fairly formulaic.
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Apr 21, 2015 02:23
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Icedude posted:In other news, GUST apparently did some sort of Surge Concerto broadcast and confirmed they're working on a new game in the series Went ahead and read the Ciel Nosurge summary so I'm hyped for more Surge Concerto stuff.
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Apr 21, 2015 02:58
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I think I have a workable solution to the timetable, I'm going to take the side content I've currently got and divide it into two updates: One with Nay and the purification scenes (this is a logical split for reasons which will become clear) and one with Sarly. Sarly's are a lot more obviously plot relevant from the start, which is nice. We'll have Dive->Plot->Side->Plot->Side->Plot and then not have any side content for a while. When we finish that third plot update why it had to be this way will make sense. In fact we'll be mostly done with this whole Chapter's side content if I do it that way, as I look at things. Feinne fucked around with this message at 03:37 on Apr 21, 2015 |
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Apr 21, 2015 03:32
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I'm trying to not be too big a dick about it. I understand that it's a tricky thing to balance, and it is actually something I'm struggling with in my current LP, as the main plot has about 20-30 hours of content, with about 40-80 hours worth of sidequests and other materials.
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Apr 21, 2015 04:28
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Yeah, it's always tough to balance and judge side content. For me in this case, the attraction is more in the side content than the main plot, so I don't really have a call to make here.
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Apr 21, 2015 04:36
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Actually, Delta DOES question the Prim/Prime thing, it's just that it's a world entry conversation and the start-of-world conversation takes priority. If you enter a world any time after Prim appears, they stop and talk about it. It's fairly easy to notice if you take a break from Sarly to stop by Zill's Genometrics. The S/M/I/O thing is a cool concept, but in practice it's really annoying. See, the main problems are A) once you pick a choice, it no longer adds points, EVER, and a number of choices are flat-out required at some point if you want all the crystals, B) using a song that belongs to a heroine pushes them towards the center, and C) while using a non-heroine song aligns their personality towards another character, actually making use of this tends to require grinding. Really could've been pulled off better.
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Apr 21, 2015 04:37
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I pretty much skipped 95% of Nays and Sarlys shop/crafting dialogue when playing the game myself. There was only one character who I really thought interesting enough to read most of their stuff in that regard, the other probably 50%. For Nay/Sarly there are a few interesting scenes, but they get lost in a lot of white noise crap.
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Apr 21, 2015 05:40
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:I'm trying to not be too big a dick about it. I understand that it's a tricky thing to balance, and it is actually something I'm struggling with in my current LP, as the main plot has about 20-30 hours of content, with about 40-80 hours worth of sidequests and other materials. Oh I totally feel you, the scenes are really paced oddly here. We're actually still in the game's prologue but it doesn't quite want us to realize it, and part of that is totally giving us access to I'm pretty sure literally all of Delta and Cass's shop scenes for Phase 1 during this section of the phase. They break the flow a bit here, but they'll REALLY break the flow when we switch to the other party in a few plot updates so I'm just going to try and push through them. FrickenMoron posted:For Nay/Sarly there are a few interesting scenes, but they get lost in a lot of white noise crap. Sarly's are often pretty okay (since they tie in with her Dives a lot in concept) but Nay's are kind of boring until the plot reaches a certain point and we have a better idea why she does what she does. The other two shops have a pretty cool side story and character development for one of the cooler side characters respectively, so there's also that to look forward to. EDIT: Also we are only a few updates from our first Song in the form of CLASS::CIEL_N_PROTECTA so there's that to look forward to. And yes, Songs here aren't EXEC:: or METHOD::, they're CLASS::. Feinne fucked around with this message at 06:43 on Apr 21, 2015 |
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Apr 21, 2015 05:43
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Feinne posted:EDIT: Also we are only a few updates from our first Song in the form of CLASS::CIEL_N_PROTECTA so there's that to look forward to. And yes, Songs here aren't EXEC:: or METHOD::, they're CLASS::. Object-oriented language? Do Ra Cielans use (a local variant of) Hymnos too or is their magical language different? Looking forward to it, the songs are the selling point of the Tonelico & co. games I've finished the Ciel Nosurge summary and  Nay's backstory. Up there with Cloche and Mir's, how the hell is she that well adjusted? While I'm asking questions with no/spoilerous answers, why the hell is Zill alive and not in prison? That Genometric is sure going to be interesting.
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Apr 21, 2015 09:18
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I don't get these people who make all their Songs a CLASS::. If you're singing about it, you probably want everything to be public anyway, so isn't it more elegant to just use a STRUCT::?
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Apr 21, 2015 09:57
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Maybe Zill's around because they needed a bad guy running around  my question is why didn't Zill keep Sarly under much higher security.For those who've read the Ciel summary especially considering Zill should know full well who she is and how much Sarly and co can get in her way as they have before, also wondering why Nay doesn't just tell the sharl to gently caress off. A Cup of Ramen fucked around with this message at 11:49 on Apr 21, 2015 |
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Apr 21, 2015 11:46
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To be fair Zill was keeping Sarly behind a locked door in the Church, which is the closest thing to a prison they have. They were keeping her around because I'm pretty sure they hoped to get more information out of her.
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Apr 21, 2015 15:38
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Omobono posted:Object-oriented language? Do Ra Cielans use (a local variant of) Hymnos too or is their magical language different? Looking forward to it, the songs are the selling point of the Tonelico & co. games REON is kinda more Query-based, but it does rely in a bit of class definition to represent a sentence subject besides the singer.
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Apr 21, 2015 15:52
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Honestly, I'm kinda surprised Cass reined herself in enough to not spit fire when she saw Zill, given what happens in Ciel nosurge. That Genometrics is probably going to be loving nasty.
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Apr 21, 2015 15:53
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Materant posted:Honestly, I'm kinda surprised Cass reined herself in enough to not spit fire when she saw Zill, given what happens in Ciel nosurge. That Genometrics is probably going to be loving nasty. It is called the Land of Death, and I will say holy poo poo will it live up to that name. We also get a BALLER song out of it when we can finally do it. Like it's my go-to song for the rest of the game even after I get the more powerful ones because the aesthetic of it is amazing.
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Apr 21, 2015 16:06
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 I just connected the dots and realized that this game had the very same Origa (Olga Vitalevna Yakovleva) whose superb rendition of Meadowlands (Polyushka Polye) I recently stumbled across, quite by coincidence, on YouTube. Thought I'd share the video here, as it immediately makes clear why she would have been excellent for this sort of game (and is, I think, precisely up the alley of anyone who likes this style of music.)What a shame that she died this January. https://youtube.com/watch?v=04_rDXjQuoQ
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Apr 21, 2015 21:01
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