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Bauxite posted:Adventures were separate things, think of it like a choose your own adventure novel in dungeon form, and it gets better when you find out that certain choices in the tree for the adventures broke constantly, so often times each adventure had a strict path anyway because all the other branches would break and you'd have to start over. Malgrave trail. *twitches*
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Apr 20, 2015 22:18
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Evil Mastermind posted:Does anyone have a breakdown of how involved some of the steps there are? Like, how do you acquire 150 elder gems? How many Veteran Adventures are there? Now or then? Most of the most obnoxious attunement stuff has changed.
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Apr 20, 2015 22:31
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wtfmoses posted:I remember about a week or two after the release this "guide" was released for attunement to the raids. This honestly killed I think 85% of the player base who even CONSIDERED that they might want to raid. Here it is for you to look at I liked that one fire elemental boss you had to fight for the attunement quest. The fight was a fairly easy "don't stand in the fire" fight that you could solo in around 2 minutes. Except it was bugged so that things like Engineers (the pet class, also the most popular) using pets would cause it to spawn 3 times the fire to avoid, which was more or less impossible. Some people seemed to think it was a gear check, some people thought it was just really loving hard and that if they tried a little harder they'd finally get it. So at any given point there would be a group of ten people attempting and wiping on it repeatedly. It was impossible to convince all of them that it was just bugged and to turn off their offending skills. I finally beat it by trying at 5am on a Tuesday when there were only 2 other people there who I was able to convince to join my party and just let me solo it. Did the Horde goon guild ever set foot into a raid? I'm pretty sure Space Jam did not. Bauxite posted:Adventures were separate things, think of it like a choose your own adventure novel in dungeon form, and it gets better when you find out that certain choices in the tree for the adventures broke constantly, so often times each adventure had a strict path anyway because all the other branches would break and you'd have to start over. Not to mention the different paths had massive difficulty disparities. The way they distributed loot made a run that didn't get a gold medal more or less worthless so everyone just stuck to the easiest path every single time.
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Apr 20, 2015 22:44
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Rhymenoserous posted:I remember that house, I made a bunch of furniture for you! I had the spooky graveyard with plushie ritual sacrifice scenes. Hey cool house buddy, I remember your place.  Honestly there were so many cool housing plots, hoping around and shooting the breeze with the housing nerds was the best social aspect of the game.
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Apr 20, 2015 22:59
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The more I hear about Carbine, the more they sound like the evil twin of Arenanet. Both set out to make a modern MMORPG, but their philosophies were completely opposite. Arenanet made Guild Wars 2 very carefully. They looked for common snags in MMO gameplay: fighting over nodes, fighting over tags, leveling zones that became useless as they were outgrown, having to wait forever on tanks and healers for grouping, having too much stuff character-bound, mechanics that encouraged player-on-player animosity, having to build an entirely new set of equipment for PvP, the problems caused by a gear treadmill, and so on. They then improved those things or avoided them entirely with a better system. The result is a game engineered to be friendlier at every step of the way, to the point where even the game community is the most pleasant I've seen in the genre. Carbine approached making Wildstar with incredible arrogance, ignoring a decade's worth of lessons other successful (and failed) MMOs could teach them. They deliberately chose to make the game punishing and outdated, right down to the box + sub model. This created an incredibly toxic community of players on top of it. This disaster could have been prevented if they had paid attention to history and had been more humble, but the guys in charge kept screaming HARDCORE and charging right ahead. They've spent some time undoing some of their "hardcore" stuff, but too little, too late. They're getting exactly what they deserve.
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Apr 20, 2015 23:09
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Iron Tusk posted:Now or then? Most of the most obnoxious attunement stuff has changed. Back then. I just want to get an idea of how obnoxious that list was when you were doing the steps inside the steps.
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Apr 20, 2015 23:22
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Ah, Hellgate London. A multiplayer game made by a dev team full of ex-Blizzard employees who decided that they wanted to make something for hardcore gamers. It's almost like there's a pattern there.
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Apr 21, 2015 00:41
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Evil Mastermind posted:Back then. I just want to get an idea of how obnoxious that list was when you were doing the steps inside the steps. Almost everything on the list was all in all, trivial, except for the Silver Dungeon Attunement and World Bosses. First, the dungeons were just plain hard, and unforgiving. Even if you were a great group, the first two dungeons didn't leave any spare time to go take a dump. STL relied on terrain hacks more or less to knock off an extra couple of minutes. Next were the bugs. Stormtalon used to just go off his rocker the second time you pulled him and not obey his script. There was a required miniboss that could just sink into the ground and you'd fail in the last 2/3's of an hour long. Two of the dungeons had random objective lists that would essentially mean you couldn't complete them. The world bosses had 6-9 hour spawn windows. Also like 3-4 of them for the longest time would bug out and be unkillable.
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Apr 21, 2015 00:50
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Itzena posted:Ah, Hellgate London. A multiplayer game made by a dev team full of ex-Blizzard employees who decided that they wanted to make something for hardcore gamers. There was actually a fun game in there somewhere beneath the bugs, mismanagement and dumb pricing structure, at least.
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Apr 21, 2015 01:04
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And like Wildstar will probably end up, Hellgate is f2p. 
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Apr 21, 2015 02:31
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The Moon Monster posted:There was actually a fun game in there somewhere beneath the bugs, mismanagement and dumb pricing structure, at least. I beta tested both Hellgate London and Wildstar and knew they were both garbage because of that. The real shame was that other game the hellgate devs were making to test stuff, Mythos, was actually fun.
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Apr 21, 2015 02:45
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 I don't make good buying decisions, guys. 
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Apr 21, 2015 02:56
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Evil Mastermind posted:
At least it was just 30 for hellgate, and hellgate was actually fun to play. The game didn't actively hate you for existing with every fiber of its being. That's the thing that really boggles my mind. Even in EQ the game didn't actively hate you. It was indifferent to you and your attempts to play it. If you wanted the put the time into it you would get an okay game out of it, for the time. Wildstar actively hated everything you tried to do. Want to fight mobs to level? All of them will wreck your poo poo if you missdodge a telegraph. Attunements? gently caress you go do like 900 things, half of which will probably break so roll the loving bones, rear end in a top hat. LITERALLY MY FETISH fucked around with this message at 04:28 on Apr 21, 2015 |
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Apr 21, 2015 04:25
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I remember being really excited for the art style and cool seeming combat.' I didn't even get one character to 30 much less max. I used to do Vanilla MC back in the day Never again. 
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Apr 21, 2015 04:27
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My wow guild saw the announcement for the MC event and planned out a fun weekly raid for all the oldies who used to raid but stopped as the content got less forgiving with each expo. We were having no trouble with progression in highmaul. One night experiencing the joys of molten core and we never went back. Also, on the shameful and expensive lessons topic  This taught me that when a dev says the launch patch will fix X they are lying. It also taught me never to buy a game with a lifetime sub option.
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Apr 21, 2015 04:58
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wow
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Apr 21, 2015 05:19
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Byolante posted:My wow guild saw the announcement for the MC event and planned out a fun weekly raid for all the oldies who used to raid but stopped as the content got less forgiving with each expo. We were having no trouble with progression in highmaul. One night experiencing the joys of molten core and we never went back. I'm sorry.
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Apr 21, 2015 05:51
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I played this as a robot. I got a cool papa-san hat. I stopped playing the next day because I was busy. I am glad I stopped. I have 13 - 17 or so levels of relatively fun-ish memories of my robot dude. The funny thing is, if Blizzard was hired to polish this, they'd have this thing reasonably fun within a six month run. It had potential - I always wanted to see the PVP battle-plots or whatever. They had fun housing and if they'd just make you feel more of a hero, it would have been moderately successful. Instead, it kicked you in the balls and promised to buy more steel-toed boots every level.
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Apr 21, 2015 05:59
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Attunement chat:wtfmoses posted:The thing with that attunement is there were little "gently caress you" clauses to some of the steps. Like say the second step of getting 150 elder gems. I think if I recall correctly you were capped to how many elder gems you could get in a week at like 50/75 or something. Even better, actually. The cap? 140. You needed 150 to buy the key and get started. You capped at 140. No matter what you did, you'd be 10 short that first week you hit 50. The moment I saw they were being that petty about the raid attunement - literally dangling it in front of your face and dancing around you - was the moment I began to have some serious doubts about playing the game any further. quote:Let's say you want to do dungeons to get your gems... See how it says silver dungeons are required? If you got a silver dungeon prior to getting your key it didn't count. Same with any other steps. Every step had to be completed IN ORDER. About a month into the release out of everyone in goon squad who didn't immediately quit after the trial period... I think maybe 6 people were attuned with almost ZERO others even completing ONE of the silver dungeon requirements. I ended up transferring to finish my attunement because the server we rolled on was dead (THANKS DOUBLESTEP) and the world bosses thing finally killed it for me. That was the really great thing that made it clear they hadn't understood why their former co-workers were setting up the Vanilla/Outland attunements in Warcraft the way they were (and why Molten Core had no attunement at all, initially, and the one that went in was more about server stress and wipe recovery!): they thought an attunement was meant to be a bragging point that you were able to "overcome" it. Even in Vanilla and Outland, the Warcraft attunements were meant to guide you to places where you could get appropriate gear for your level of progress through the game. Blizzard wasn't ever putting content in to be exclusionary - even the Vanilla raids were hilariously inclusive. Yes, Onyxia had that huge questline... but in retrospect, since she's on par with Ragnaros, the intent was for players to spend a while doing that while working on gearing up even in Molten Core. There were never these huge content roadblocks (certainly nothing like that loving pointless world boss hunt) that distracted you from progress - the ideal was always to make sure you kept progressing. It was often called a treadmill, but it never truly was - even if you only made a bit of progress, you were always making progress. Wildstar's attunement for its first raid, capstoned by The Lurker Below, meanwhile, required you to not lag out at any point when running dungeons and to PRAY TO CHRIST the Adventures didn't bug out and deny you Silver by fiat. Oh and then spend upward of a week or more on world bosses, depending on your playtime and availability, because gently caress you, that's why. Wildstar is an example of a game that needed time outside its echo chamber. SpaceDrake fucked around with this message at 07:27 on Apr 21, 2015 |
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Apr 21, 2015 07:25
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Byolante posted:Also, on the shameful and expensive lessons topic Did that game even last long enough to make the lifetime subscription cheaper than subscribing month to month? I know subscribers never really got anything of value, making that Penny Arcade hilariously inaccurate in retrospect.
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Apr 21, 2015 10:45
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The Moon Monster posted:Did that game even last long enough to make the lifetime subscription cheaper than subscribing month to month? I know subscribers never really got anything of value, making that Penny Arcade hilariously inaccurate in retrospect. Nope. They never even supplied any sub only content even. The first sub-only event got changed to free as a sop because the game was so badly hosed.
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Apr 21, 2015 11:52
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Byolante posted:Nope. They never even supplied any sub only content even. The first sub-only event got changed to free as a sop because the game was so badly hosed. I remember being so excited for Hellgate London but waiting a bit like I always do. I was so relieved I didn't get it when I saw the first legit screenshots go out.
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Apr 21, 2015 12:06
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Thunderbro posted:I remember being so excited for Hellgate London but waiting a bit like I always do. I was so relieved I didn't get it when I saw the first legit screenshots go out. The non-summoner caster and the ranger classes were actually really fun. It could have been a really good game if it wasn't a terrible buggy mess with awful netcode and monetisation. Its the sort of game I could see working really well now with advances in proceedural generation and netcode and things. As it was I got flagshipped. It was the first game I remember being sold on 'the people who made [game] are now making what they really wanted' except it was the diablo people and a diablo shooter. Diablo and shooters were my thing and I was a lot younger and a lot more niave.
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Apr 21, 2015 12:43
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some day idiot nerds will finally learn that people that were forced out of blizzard were forced out for a good reason but until that day, there will be hallgates and wildstars
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Apr 21, 2015 12:48
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reminder:quote:The founders believed they could do better than WoW: "Hey, we want take that game but do it right this time," Gaffney recalls. "we want to take the most successful mmo ever, and do it right, because they just hosed it up"
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Apr 21, 2015 13:39
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At this point I never pre order, crowd fund or advance access any game. Because everything that is released is a steaming poo poo until at least a few patches and paying for the privilege to beta test the steaming poo poo is dumb.
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Apr 21, 2015 13:45
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BigPaddy posted:At this point I never pre order, crowd fund or advance access any game. Because everything that is released is a steaming poo poo until at least a few patches and paying for the privilege to beta test the steaming poo poo is dumb. assassin's creed unity, sonic boom, and master chief collection came out within a month of each other and each one was broken as gently caress garbage. video games.
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Apr 21, 2015 13:46
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BigPaddy posted:At this point I never pre order, crowd fund or advance access any game. Because everything that is released is a steaming poo poo until at least a few patches and paying for the privilege to beta test the steaming poo poo is dumb. Some early access games are okay. Never preordering or buying early access is still the correct decision.
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Apr 21, 2015 13:46
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Oh god I was one of the first goons to hit max level in space jam. Please hold me as I cry. Also vanilla wow talk- MC 40 was a deliberate middle finger to people who like vanilla while completely missing the point of why people like vanilla wow. Blizzard upped MC 40 to max level in WoD without admitting anything had changed in 10 years. You remember how you had 2-3 people on decurse duty due to really bad raid wide debuffs? Too bad, gently caress you, current wow has a 10 second cooldown on every healers dispells. Only healers get decurse. Hope you dont mind waiting out those 10 minute duration hilariously bad curses. Oops we removed the visual effect from living bomb tee hee I hope you have the updated today DBM Remember how you would bring multiple off tanks or have hunters kite big adds/boss adds? Raid finder only lets you have 2 tanks. There are 0 aggro abilities outside tank specs. All those AoE packs you basically had to AoE down at the same time to kill? Like core hound packs? oooops we nerfed aoe dps a to poo poo dang is this pull taking 10 minutes? Making it raid finder only was the worst offender. If you took a time machine to vanilla days and told a raider he would have to do MC with 39 random people he would shoot himself. They went out of their way to make it as annoying as possible then smugly patted themselves on the back for proving how badwrong vanilla wow was.
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Apr 21, 2015 14:54
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Double Monocle posted:Oh god  *breathes obesily*
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Apr 21, 2015 15:03
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Double Monocle posted:Oh god This isn't wowplayers.txt
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Apr 21, 2015 15:06
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people liked vanilla wow because of *checks off reasons why mc40 was poo poo then, and why it's even worse now, ironically because of improvements to game since then*
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Apr 21, 2015 15:28
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Minrad posted:people liked vanilla wow because of *checks off reasons why mc40 was poo poo then, and why it's even worse now, ironically because of improvements to game since then* Person who was really excited about Wildstar has bad opinions, who knew.
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Apr 21, 2015 17:49
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sword_man.gif posted:reminder: See my  on page 4: they sharply disagreed with the direction Burning Crusade and beyond took and honestly thought their ideas about content design and progression were better. I wish I understood how they manage to avoid stepping out of their echo chamber for so long.
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Apr 21, 2015 18:31
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SpaceDrake posted:See my because the internet is incredible at forming tiny groups of people who do nothing but assuage each other constantly see: this very forum's wildstar threads
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Apr 21, 2015 18:35
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sword_man.gif posted:because the internet is incredible at forming tiny groups of people who do nothing but assuage each other constantly see: this very forum's wildstar threads also furries
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Apr 21, 2015 18:42
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Eonwe posted:also furries so it's the furries fault?
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Apr 21, 2015 18:53
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Rhymenoserous posted:so it's the furries fault? Chua
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Apr 21, 2015 19:01
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is minrad the furry, because iirc hes a fishy not a furry
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Apr 21, 2015 19:17
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Rhymenoserous posted:so it's the furries fault? Isn't it always?
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Apr 21, 2015 19:47
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