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Dalael posted:For those of you who speak french, here are two nice documentary that was made regarding Child Protection Service in Quebec.: Alberta is having some of the same problems, with deaths in care and such, but I can't think of many (if any) instances when a child was actually taken away from their family without cause. Thus, the problem seems to be insufficient oversight of the system itself (probably due to insufficient staffing) rather than CPS having gone mad with power, taking away kids left and right. The point is, law enforcement should have the right to subpoena the server logs of the sites which sell bleach to pump up your child's rear end, and pursue the operators as well as any customers, make sure the children are safe, and the perpetrators go to loving prison.
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Apr 21, 2015 05:25
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Dalael posted:For those of you who speak french, here are two nice documentary that was made regarding Child Protection Service in Quebec.: None of this contradicts the fact that better funding means better results. Yes, we need to increase IRS funding to you clown. There are literally billions of dollars going uncollected from big business each year because we won't spend a few extra million on the IRS.
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Apr 21, 2015 05:26
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Dalael posted:E: Also, I hear the same thing applies to the IRS. They're understaffed, underpaid and overworked. Maybe they should increases your taxes to fix that problem? Here government: Unironically yes again. I mean, the main reason the IRS can't just do my taxes for me is the hard work lobbyists put in for companies like Intuit (makers of TurboTax).
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Apr 21, 2015 05:49
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Aren't taxes near their lowest point in almost a century? Gee, I wonder why agencies don't have the resources to do their jobs *spends trillions on a fake-WMD Easter Egg hunt*
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Apr 21, 2015 05:56
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PT6A posted:Alberta is having some of the same problems, with deaths in care and such, but I can't think of many (if any) instances when a child was actually taken away from their family without cause. Thus, the problem seems to be insufficient oversight of the system itself (probably due to insufficient staffing) rather than CPS having gone mad with power, taking away kids left and right. Are you telling me that this bleach pumped up children's rear end was not a joke? gently caress the world is sick.
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Apr 21, 2015 06:05
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Dalael posted:Are you telling me that this bleach pumped up children's rear end was not a joke? gently caress the world is sick. Yes, I'm afraid so. http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/parents-are-giving-their-children-bleach-enemas-to-cure-them-of-autism-311
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Apr 21, 2015 06:13
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Dalael posted:Are you telling me that this bleach pumped up children's rear end was not a joke? gently caress the world is sick. Not even remotely. quote:MMS. It stands for Miracle Mineral Solution, but it’s really bleach. I know because I tested it myself, destroying a perfectly good cloth napkin in the process. Take a look at what it does to cotton. Now imagine it on the inside of a child’s mouth, esophagus, stomach, or intestines–its peddlers encourage its administration as an enema. Horrorshow. Yet not only do parents try this bleach as a “treatment” for their children’s autism, but also a major autism conference actually featured a presenter flogging this stuff, and the claim that it “recovered” 38 children in 20 months remains on the conference site as I type this.
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Apr 21, 2015 06:16
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Where the gently caress do these treatment come from? These guys? E: I mean.. gently caress. Back then, there was no medical science available. Leaching and all that crap was just as valid as anything else considering they often had no clue of what was happening. But in modern times, this poo poo should not happen. Dalael fucked around with this message at 06:25 on Apr 21, 2015 |
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Apr 21, 2015 06:22
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I just don't get why after the first ti e a country went after them for selling bleach for people to drink and use in enemas, they didn't proclaim to have found an even better formula that just coincidentally was functionally inert to lessen the chance they'd get in trouble.
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Apr 21, 2015 06:25
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Nintendo Kid posted:I just don't get why after the first ti e a country went after them for selling bleach for people to drink and use in enemas, they didn't proclaim to have found an even better formula that just coincidentally was functionally inert to lessen the chance they'd get in trouble. Because one of the selling points that gets these dumb people to believe in it is that the shreds of their child's colon that come out in the toilet are the "intestinal parasites" that are causing the autism 
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Apr 21, 2015 06:35
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VitalSigns posted:Because one of the selling points that gets these dumb people to believe in it is that the shreds of their child's colon that come out in the toilet are the "intestinal parasites" that are causing the autism Yeah but they could replicate that by tossing flakes in there. You know, like those footpads that "prove" they suck out toxins because after you wear them they turn brown (the brown is caused by a chemical in the pad that turns brown when exposed to moisture)
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Apr 21, 2015 06:36
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my kid got all his shots. He's a smart little basturd, so far so good.
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Apr 21, 2015 06:36
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Nintendo Kid posted:Yeah but they could replicate that by tossing flakes in there. You know, like those footpads that "prove" they suck out toxins because after you wear them they turn brown (the brown is caused by a chemical in the pad that turns brown when exposed to moisture) True. I do the apple cleanse to get rid of toxins, myself. Eat an apple right before bed, and the next morning it's all brown, thick with the toxins it extracted from my teeth the night before.
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Apr 21, 2015 06:56
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VitalSigns posted:True. I do the same with water. I drink a big glass of water before going to bed and, what do you know, during the night I have the urge to piss it away. I know it works because the water comes in clear and leaves yellow. During summer I put it in a big pot and sell it on the side of the street for 25 cents a glass. Suckers think its lemonade.
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Apr 21, 2015 07:05
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VitalSigns posted:True. You're supposed to peel two apples and then hold them in your armpits as you sleep.
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Apr 21, 2015 07:13
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:You're supposed to peel two apples and then hold them in your armpits as you sleep. Yeah you have to get rid of the skin, it's riddled with toxins.
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Apr 21, 2015 07:22
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Dalael posted:I strongly disagree with your CPS comment. CPS often times gently caress up families and cause more trouble than its worth. Your typical-get-his-rear end-kicked-by-dad child will never be helped by them because its too hard, but they will break up perfectly good families on a stupid baseless complaint however. I don't want to give CPS a pass for the times they drop the ball, but I have personally worked with a lot of kids who got their asses kicked by a parent, were placed in protective custody, then dependency, then transitioned to a caring foster home and continued their life and goals successfully. Furthermore, in my experience it takes a lot (usually significant visible injuries) for a complaint of abuse to be ruled "founded." Families that are actually broken up for "stupid baseless complaints" are pretty uncommon, unless you consider "letting the 12-year-olds parent the 5-year-olds while I turn tricks/sell meth, whereabouts unknown, for days at a time" to be a stupid baseless complaint.
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Apr 21, 2015 07:50
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The problem CPS faces is that 99% of the time, people are determined to limit and diminish their power and resources at all coats because they're a government agency and how dare they break up families, and then when a kid dies because CPS didn't have the power or resources to intervene, CPS gets crucified for not intervening and clearly it's evidence that CPS is incompetent and shouldn't be trusted with children etc etc etc. Also, people are completely blind to the abuse perpetuated by themselves and the people around them, so they scream and whine every time CPS does get involved, like that goon who wanted to sue them after they took his kids away because his daughter left home alone on a Saturday morning and he didn't notice because he sleeps in until she gets hungry enough to wake him up.
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Apr 21, 2015 16:18
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That thread was the best. "CPS is so ridiculous, I only sleep in a few hours and they take my daughter. Just because she woke up, got hungry, and wandered off to school by herself on a Saturday and got picked up. And then they brought her back to my filthy hovel and I was like, 'don't stray from the marked path you'll fall through the soft spots on the floor, it was either fix them or buy this sick gaming rig', and then a pile of random bullshit almost fell over and killed the CPS worker. And then she noticed the insane amount of teetering piles of junk that could bury anyone at any moment. God, CPS are such fascists how could they take my kids" I assume your friend (well, let's be honest: you) had a similar story Dalael. One of my good friends works for CPS in Texas and 100% of her stories are meth-addicted parents who can't give two fucks to ensure their kids have a clean and safe place to live.
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Apr 21, 2015 16:26
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VitalSigns posted:That thread was the best. "CPS is so ridiculous, I only sleep in a few hours and they take my daughter. Just because she woke up, got hungry, and wandered off to school by herself on a Saturday and got picked up. And then they brought her back to my filthy hovel and I was like, 'don't stray from the marked path you'll fall through the soft spots on the floor, it was either fix them or buy this sick gaming rig', and then a pile of random bullshit almost fell over and killed the CPS worker. And then she noticed the insane amount of teetering piles of junk that could bury anyone at any moment. God, CPS are such fascists how could they take my kids" When da gently caress did I even mention anything about either me or friends getting involved in this poo poo? Oh wait. I did not. All I said was I disagreed that they need more power. But hey, don't let facts stand in the way of your narrative. Please, do go on.  E: Its the fun thing about arguing on the internet. Why bother reading what the person actually wrote when you can just make things up. Dalael fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Apr 21, 2015 |
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Apr 21, 2015 16:29
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I assumed you were at least speaking from some bad personal experience and ignorantly generalizing from that instead of just making things up whole cloth, I apologize for my wrong assumption.
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Apr 21, 2015 16:57
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VitalSigns posted:I assumed you were at least speaking from some bad personal experience and ignorantly generalizing from that instead of just making things up whole cloth, I apologize for my wrong assumption. No. Never had experience with CPS in my adult life. I don't have kids, so if they came knocking at my door I'd be pretty confused.
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Apr 21, 2015 17:11
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On the other hand, it would be pretty strong evidence that they really were loving things up where you live.
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Apr 21, 2015 17:26
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Dalael posted:No. Never had experience with CPS in my adult life. I don't have kids, so if they came knocking at my door I'd be pretty confused. So you were just making poo poo up. Cool, thanks for the CPS fanfic.
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Apr 21, 2015 17:28
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VitalSigns posted:So you were just making poo poo up. Cool, thanks for the CPS fanfic. To be fair, he was probably basing it on a lot of the rolling-stones-gang-rape quality reporting that constantly comes out about the CPS because it's easy to find "victims" going on record slamming the CPS for taking their poor kids away.
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Apr 21, 2015 17:30
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we should dissolve children into water and then dilute it this can be used to cure pedophilia
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Apr 21, 2015 17:31
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Dalael posted:No. Never had experience with CPS in my adult life. I don't have kids, so if they came knocking at my door I'd be pretty confused. hahaha go kill yuorself you stupid loving oval office
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Apr 21, 2015 17:31
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corn in the bible posted:we should dissolve children into water and then dilute it this can be used to cure pedophilia You think pedophilia is caused by all those darned sexy children? By homeopathy logic (heh, homeopathy logic  ) it would actually be the brains of pedophiles we should dilute and put into water. And then when prion disease kicks in, we can dilute prions in water and cure that as well. It's based on fact and science 
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Apr 21, 2015 17:38
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VitalSigns posted:So you were just making poo poo up. Cool, thanks for the CPS fanfic. Just because I do not have children does not mean I never had to experience dealing with CPS. As a matter of fact, when I was younger my sister called CPS for completely bullshit reasons. It took maybe 2 months before she was taken away and relocated with a family who kicked her out not long after. She went through 3 different families (One of the good natured CPS dad sexually assaulted her. I think that was the 2nd family she went through). I don't remember the bullshit reason, but we were never harmed by our parents, had a very nice home and everything provided for us. So there's my experience with CPS. I can also tell you about my cousin who was beaten up at least once a week, made multiple calls and was never taken charge of. However, both of these are just anecdotal evidence. I also linked two long and detailed documentaries that talks about CPS in Quebec where I live and a bunch of corruption issue caused by the very system that is supposed to help children. If I could find a translation, I'd link it. The thing is, if you guys think that everything that happens with CPS is all rosy and cute and no harm is ever done, you guys are just plain wrong. corn in the bible posted:hahaha go kill yuorself you stupid loving oval office Who the gently caress pissed in your cherios this morning? GlyphGryph posted:To be fair, he was probably basing it on a lot of the rolling-stones-gang-rape quality reporting that constantly comes out about the CPS because it's easy to find "victims" going on record slamming the CPS for taking their poor kids away. Nope. I base it on documentaries that interviewed children who themselves were subjected to the whole ordeal and say it hosed them up. E: Again, to make it clear. I am not advocating for CPS to be dissolved or anything like that. But simply giving them more power without any checks and balance, and/or making sure that they already use their resources approprietly is just a bad idea. Dalael fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Apr 21, 2015 |
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Apr 21, 2015 17:56
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Dalael posted:Just because I do not have children does not mean I never had to experience dealing with CPS. As a matter of fact, when I was younger my sister called CPS for completely bullshit reasons. It took maybe 2 months before she was taken away and relocated with a family who kicked her out not long after. She went through 3 different families (One of the good natured CPS dad sexually assaulted her. I think that was the 2nd family she went through). I don't remember the bullshit reason, but we were never harmed by our parents, had a very nice home and everything provided for us. So there's my experience with CPS. Wow it's like an agency which is always underfunded and ridiculed may make bad hiring decisions and choose not to pursue certain cases because of having no budget.  I've worked with CPS and I will be taking a job there when I graduate. Believe me, most people there mean well but it's very hard to be in-depth and do well when you have 40 cases you're handling. The guidelines recommend 12-15 as a maximum but since we can't afford more employees... whelp.
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Apr 21, 2015 18:01
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So, your complaints are: 1. CPS takes complaints too seriously. 2. CPS does not take complaints seriously enough. ...makes sense...
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Apr 21, 2015 18:01
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CPS is astonishingly good at evaluating the authenticity of complaints...and then only prosecutes the spurious complaints because it is staffed by family-hating agents of Lucifer himself.
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Apr 21, 2015 18:03
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It's actually pretty disturbing how common the "CPS breaks up a good family" trope is in media. Probably counter-productive. I think part of the issue is that we're also used to how hosed up the people are around us, so it never seems that bad, even when an outsider would go, "hey, that's really hosed up!" I've definitely seen situations with people I know where I look back and go, "Jesus, why on earth were those people allowed to raise children?" even though it didn't seem harmful or abusive at the time. Once you get away from sexual abuse and really obvious physical abuse going beyond the line of legal corporal punishment, the lines get blurry really quickly and we're usually more willing to forgive our friends and acquaintances their faults than we would be to strangers.
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Apr 21, 2015 18:28
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Dalael posted:Nope. I base it on documentaries that interviewed children who themselves were subjected to the whole ordeal and say it hosed them up. As someone who has been involved in the system as part of a foster family, these children are probably not reliable witnesses. Many (not all, maybe not even most, but many) children taken by the CPS genuinely and legitimately love their parents and are desperate to think of them in the best possible light, even a decade after they've been removed from the home, and I've seen this belief (that the CPS taking them away is the reason they are hosed up) even among kids who definitely should have been removed from their families or they would have been hosed up even more. I've also seen it among kids who were taken away from families, arguably legitimately, and then placed in foster homes that were even worse because of sexual abuse or something, but the CPS here at least really is so underfunded and desperate for support that stuff like that is pretty much inevitable, although tragic. So there's definitely some truth to the fact that CPS can make things worse, but it's a situation where it is very very hard to get to the truth and that's part of why it happens. GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Apr 21, 2015 |
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Apr 21, 2015 18:36
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Dalael posted:Just because I do not have children does not mean I never had to experience dealing with CPS. As a matter of fact, when I was younger my sister called CPS for completely bullshit reasons. It took maybe 2 months before she was taken away and relocated with a family who kicked her out not long after. She went through 3 different families (One of the good natured CPS dad sexually assaulted her. I think that was the 2nd family she went through). I don't remember the bullshit reason, but we were never harmed by our parents, had a very nice home and everything provided for us. So there's my experience with CPS. I guess your cousin's parents managed to convince the CPS that your cousin was just making calls for "bullshit reasons" rather than because of real abuse. Since CPS didn't have the resources or power to conduct a real investigation in that case, they had to go with what they could see rather than breaking up a family based on one person's word! As for your sister, I think you're running into one of my favorite fallacies - assuming that something is a bullshit reason just because you, personally think it's a bullshit reason. I can only guess at what flavor of abuse you're dismissing as "bullshit reasons", or where you as a child got your information about the case (probably your parents!), but what the hell do you think happened in those two months? An investigation and a grace period for your parents to shape up. The abuse she suffered in foster homes is tragic, but an inevitable consequence of a system which doesn't have the resources or power needed to properly protect her. I'm curious - what kind of "checks and balances" do you think CPS needs?
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Apr 21, 2015 19:28
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PT6A posted:It's actually pretty disturbing how common the "CPS breaks up a good family" trope is in media. Probably counter-productive. The CPS can't comment publicly on individual cases because they must preserve privacy. Parents on the other hand are free to make whatever baseless claims they feel like. That in itself should make anyone suspicious of any article. Add a lot of emotion, parents that often have mental problems or personality disorders and journalists using crying children and mothers to sell papers. It's the perfect shitstorm of lovely journalism.
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Apr 21, 2015 19:29
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Ugh my cousin's fiancee is one of these, and the wedding is in like a week. How do I convince him not to marry her, for the good of society?
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Apr 21, 2015 22:08
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Oh look, another study has shown that the vaccine-autism link is non-existent. I tried to find a version of the article that had comments, as those are always a blast whenever there's a vaccine-related article, but wasn't able to find one. I'll keep an eye on the ol' FB to see what my friend has to say about this.
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Apr 21, 2015 23:33
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Anosmoman posted:The CPS can't comment publicly on individual cases because they must preserve privacy. Parents on the other hand are free to make whatever baseless claims they feel like. That in itself should make anyone suspicious of any article. Add a lot of emotion, parents that often have mental problems or personality disorders and journalists using crying children and mothers to sell papers. It's the perfect shitstorm of lovely journalism. There have been a number of cases in the news about homeless or runaway youth, teen parents who ran from care with their infants who were in separate placements, etc. Facebook and article comments are always full of random folks giving their opinion about how evil this proves CPS to be. If I was not bound by confidentiality, I could tell them exactly why they are making stupid assumptions.
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Apr 21, 2015 23:46
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VitalSigns posted:... Dalael posted:When da gently caress did I even mention anything about either me or friends getting involved in this poo poo? Oh wait. I did not. All I said was I disagreed that they need more power. But hey, don't let facts stand in the way of your narrative. Please, do go on. Dalael posted:No. Never had experience with CPS in my adult life. I don't have kids, so if they came knocking at my door I'd be pretty confused. VitalSigns posted:So you were just making poo poo up. Cool, thanks for the CPS fanfic. Dalael posted:Just because I do not have children does not mean I never had to experience dealing with CPS. As a matter of fact, when I was younger my sister called CPS for completely bullshit reasons. It took maybe 2 months before she was taken away and relocated with a family who kicked her out not long after. She went through 3 different families (One of the good natured CPS dad sexually assaulted her. I think that was the 2nd family she went through). I don't remember the bullshit reason, but we were never harmed by our parents, had a very nice home and everything provided for us. So there's my experience with CPS. I just want to say that this string of posts is absolutely amazing. Vital called Dalael out on part of the basis for beliefs as personal experience, Dalael whines about him never having said that, then when VItal accuses him of making poo poo up whole cloth Dalael talks about his personal experiences with CPS. I mean,  .Incidentally, I hope Dalael has noticed that pretty much every person who's argued against him on the CPS angle has brought up the fact that yes, horrible stuff does happen. From children getting assigned to bad homes to children being left in bad homes, it happens. It's just that the source of that is pinned mostly on CPS itself being underfunded and maybe not having the authority it needs to do the stuff it needs to do. So I'm really not sure where that last comment (bolding mine) is coming from. That's a Jrod-caliber mistake right there.
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Apr 22, 2015 05:48
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