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Supposedly anything with -Scythe that is a D weapon rolls -1 on the chart so the Hemlock is still insanely amazing though.
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Apr 22, 2015 03:28
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How many points does it cost? How many Wraith Knights can you take instead?
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Apr 22, 2015 03:38
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Same cost as before 185 ? , but it moved up to ML2 and has the D- Scythes. Crimson Hunter is pretty boss as well at a cost of 140. Eldritch Storm has two cast modes: WC 3 or WC 4. WC 3 24''- str 3 ap 3 large blast, fleshbane, haywire, pinning WC 4 24''- str 3 ap 3 Apocalyptic blast, fleshbane, haywire, pinning. Wut? I was not expecting it to be AP3. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Apr 22, 2015 |
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Apr 22, 2015 03:50
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BULBASAUR posted:I feel you're seriously downplaying how powerful ranged D can be Err... basically I'm saying wraithguard aren't much functionally changed. Yeah one can kill a tank now, but mass single shot D weapons isn't too much scarier than mass S10 AP1 insta-death on a 6.
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Apr 22, 2015 03:53
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No not unless you play Necrons who don't get their special ability if something is ST D. It's pretty bad. Like a unit of 200 point Wraithguard will not only blow up a Ghost Ark, they'll kill all the guys inside it as well. That poo poo sucks. ST D is so much more powerful than ST10 AP1 that's its not even in the same ball park. 1 Squad will annihilate a Conclave of the Burning One. A 400 point Squad. 1 Squad of D Wraiths can kill a entire unit of Talos Corpsethief. Like all 5 of them a 600 point squad can be killed by a squad of Wraithguard w/ D- Scythes. It's pretty powerful. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Apr 22, 2015 |
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Apr 22, 2015 03:56
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BlackIronHeart posted:How do I kill a Wraithknight with Orks? Just... How? The same way as before when using ranged: cheap massed S8 weapons. Wraithknights aren't that scary for ork armies since the armor is poo poo anyways. In close combat it can be a problem, but a claw swinging back is still a risk and you will generally have the boys to soak up a stomp or two. Really, I'd be more worried about mass S6 shooting from the bikes.
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Apr 22, 2015 03:58
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Hollismason posted:No not unless you play Necrons who don't get their special ability if something is ST D. It's pretty bad. Like a unit of 200 point Wraithguard will not only blow up a Ghost Ark, they'll kill all the guys inside it as well. Why don't you shoot them with weapons? Do necrons not have weapons greater than 18"? A unit in a serpent is only 6 strong, so you can just jump on them when they get out. EDIT: Jesus christ, remember when escalation happened and eldar took pulsars? Only pulsars are each 2 large blasts? With greater range? LordAba fucked around with this message at 04:04 on Apr 22, 2015 |
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Apr 22, 2015 03:59
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So haven't looked all the way through the thread but I do have all the leaks that have been released. Some are in spanish some are in english. Should I post them , can't remember the policy. LordAba posted:Why don't you shoot them with weapons? Do necrons not have weapons greater than 18"? A unit in a serpent is only 6 strong, so you can just jump on them when they get out. Hard to shoot them when they get Battle Trance from the formation, load up in raiders, and then jump your poo poo on turn 1 by moving 6, getting out, moving 12" and then shooting you. Or Deep Strike in using Raiders Or Use a Web Way Portal Etc.... It's not like OMG what will I do it's more like "Welp that's something to deal with". Hollismason fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Apr 22, 2015 |
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Apr 22, 2015 04:17
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Getting the D is an entirely different experience than getting Strength #ed. I don't understand why you are defending it so adamantly.
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Apr 22, 2015 04:18
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It's a really really good codex except for like the D Weapons and Jetbikes, loving Aspect Warriors are boss except Shining Spears. Why would you take away hit and run from them? Anyway entire codex is up on the net. All of it except some is in spanish. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Apr 22, 2015 |
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Apr 22, 2015 04:28
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Hollismason you've made everyone real aware that you're gay, I'd think you of all people would be happy about getting the D. This Eldar book is looking really bad. They fixed the wave serpent problem, and yet managed to make the book apparently MORE powerful than it was before. Wraithknights with perpetual 4+/5+ from having their toe on cover, and wizard babysitters, were bad enough already without them being FNP gargantuans with stomp and D-Guns.
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Apr 22, 2015 04:30
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That's kind of just assholish/sexist/homophobicish? but not super offensive but still kind of weird to say and not cool ,also I'm a total top. So I'd like to give you the D.
Hollismason fucked around with this message at 05:06 on Apr 22, 2015 |
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Apr 22, 2015 04:46
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What's worth noting about the Wraithknight is that the closest comparable GC, the Barbed Heirodule, is nearly two hundred points more expensive and is actually worse in some categories. This is probably the most egregiously unbalanced thing GW's ever done, and that's really saying something.
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Apr 22, 2015 04:49
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I heard you have a 12" D, confirm / deny?
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Apr 22, 2015 04:49
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Hollismason posted:That's kind of homophobicish but not super offensive but still kind of weird to say and not cool ,also I'm a total top. So I'd like to give you the D. I'm not phobic of you or your D because Necron's c'tan powers only have a one in six chance of bringing the D
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Apr 22, 2015 04:55
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The thread's (D)ossier on Hollismason continues to grow.
Safety Factor fucked around with this message at 05:01 on Apr 22, 2015 |
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Apr 22, 2015 04:57
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no eldar allowed
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Apr 22, 2015 05:12
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I'm building a Doomsday Ark I've built 2 Ghost Arks already. Another Ghost ark waits its turn, still in the box. 
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Apr 22, 2015 05:18
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Tequila Ranger posted:I'm building a Doomsday Ark Since you seem to hate yourself want to build the two ghost arks I have waiting? I'll pay you by buying you another ghost ark! A Real Horse fucked around with this message at 06:14 on Apr 22, 2015 |
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Apr 22, 2015 05:31
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How many wraithknights does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop?
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Apr 22, 2015 08:46
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BlackIronHeart posted:How do I kill a Wraithknight with Orks? Just... How? Take a bunch of Shokkas and hope for double 6's.
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Apr 22, 2015 10:00
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:no eldar allowed Operation Pitchfork. dakka dakka is dumb.
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Apr 22, 2015 10:47
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LordAba posted:Operation Pitchfork. Oh god, please elaborate. EDIT: found it, http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/645028.page For fucks sake lads. Foul Ole Ron fucked around with this message at 10:59 on Apr 22, 2015 |
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Apr 22, 2015 10:55
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It's so so weird the power balance between this codex and the previous ones this year. Some army builds are OK but seems like any one who pays for defense or big shiny stuff is hosed. From personal experience playing as orks in the current rules huge boy mobs have all kinds of problems from mobility to getting shot down. Don't jet bikes all have shuriken cannons now?
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Apr 22, 2015 12:03
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Doctor Borris posted:Don't jet bikes all have shuriken cannons now? Only the ones without Scatter Lasers ! 
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Apr 22, 2015 12:09
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Doctor Borris posted:So Wraithknights are similar to Riptides, only better, fast, more durable, much better in close combat, and armed with guns that will trivially remove land raiders, hive tyrants, and Terminators in heavy cover from the table. TBF Riptids get ready access to skyfire+interceptor, making them pretty drat great against flyers, and like 80 ponts cheaper with those upgrades. But, yeah, WKs are bullshit. Eldar are bullshit.
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Apr 22, 2015 12:14
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LordAba posted:Err... basically I'm saying wraithguard aren't much functionally changed. Yeah one can kill a tank now, but mass single shot D weapons isn't too much scarier than mass S10 AP1 insta-death on a 6. But again, that's not really true. Let's say someone uses a Webway Portal or Raider or Wave Serpent to dump some Wraithguard out next to Commander Pask in his Leman Russ. Because you are a competent player, you make it so they can only shoot at your AV14 side. With their Wraithcannons, they are gonna get five S10 AP2 shots, which is an average of one penetrating hit and slightly less than one glancing hit. Probably won't kill you, unless he gets really lucky with a 6 to explode you- and at the very least you still get to roll a cover save. End result: Pask probably survives, albeit wounded, and you dogpile him with Guardsmen and that unit never does anything ever again. You get similar results when shooting at something like a Wave Serpent or other mid-AV target with a good cover save- one or two HP knocked off, the vehicle probably survives. With Str D guns instead, it's a completely different story. You're still seeing ~3 hits, but now every one of those hits has a chance to straight-up kill you, no saves no nothing. About a third of the time when they shoot you, you just eat it instantly. Worse yet, just because you passed two of your three cover saves and they didn't roll the d6+6 result doesn't actually mean you're safe; they can still roll a 6 on the damage table to explode you OR just roll up a 3 on d3 and kill you anyways. So they have to not roll a 6, not roll a 6 again, and then not roll a 5+ on the shot from just one Str D gun in order for you to survive. And they will get to do this 2-4 times. That's for standard Wraithguard with the single-shot guns. D-Scythes, which ignore cover and hit automatically (and can hit multiple models) are going to be the standard loadout and they are even more dangerous. Two D-Scythes (i.e. 84pts of models) will kill most vehicles instantly.
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Apr 22, 2015 12:32
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Man I love this Codex. I have a huge Wraithboner right now. You might as well pack up your lovely Space Marine armies and go homeAbusePuppy posted:Two D-Scythes (i.e. 84pts of models) will kill most vehicles instantly. 1/3 hits does literally nothing so this is a bold claim
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Apr 22, 2015 12:55
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Last night I had a farewell game for my 6E Eldar, making the most of my chance to field my Wraith-heavy army without feeling like an rear end in a top hat. The end result was a very fair draw, with the tactical objective cards deciding the game on the very last roll of turn 4. I was shocked by how much better Space Wolves are at melee than dedicated Eldar units. A few Thunderwolves with a Wolf Lord held the centre of the table all game and munched their way through the Avatar, a Ghostglaive Wraithlord, 5 Wraithblades and a Spiritseer without losing a model. It's the 3rd time I've been excited to field my FW Avatar only to have it minced by some no-name character. Even with Disarming Strike he couldn't get any wounds past a Storm Shield, and eventually failed the disarm roll-off and went down like a bitch to some relic axe. If anything became Strength D in the new codex, it should have been the Wailing Doom. gently caress Storm Shields.
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Apr 22, 2015 12:58
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Phyresis posted:Man I love this Codex. I have a huge Wraithboner right now. You might as well pack up your lovely Space Marine armies and go home Yeah but if it hits automatically and on a 3+ does a fuckton of damage even against Av14, then its hardly a bold claim. I'm pretty shocked Wraith units didn't get a points increase in exchange for being given strength D weaponry. For some perspective a fully loaded and specced out Reaver Titan can do 8 str D blasts a turn, and thats a loving TITAN. 5 Wraithguard with these Str D flamers is what, 200 odd points?
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Apr 22, 2015 13:15
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Phyresis posted:1/3 hits does literally nothing so this is a bold claim I agree, Wraithguard need buffing 
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Apr 22, 2015 13:23
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NTRabbit posted:I agree, Wraithguard need buffing same
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Apr 22, 2015 13:42
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Thank jesus, I thought I had read the most unnecessary rule in GW history. People that are able to make all-Wraithguard armies work are amazing people. So few shots, such short range, high cost, large models. Well, Wraithscythes are definitely better at killing tanks than Wraithguard even with the -1. Dropping 5 Wraithguard and rolling 5 shots to try and kill a tank is a risky proposition, hitting automatically helps big time on such a low-volume unit.
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Apr 22, 2015 13:45
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eldar have always been ridic. the only reason they weren't in 5th is cuz they never got a codex. i'm sure if they did it would have been just as op Deal With It
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Apr 22, 2015 14:10
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"It's always been bad" doesn't magically make it okay to be bad.
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Apr 22, 2015 14:24
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It's 2nd edition all over again!
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Apr 22, 2015 14:34
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SRM posted:It's 2nd edition all over again! Just need the Swooping Hawk Exarch to fly high on t1, drop next to my commander and kill him with a vortex grenade on t2 for the scenario to be complete
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Apr 22, 2015 14:49
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I won the last three tournaments at our local shop and with this release, it's fair winds and following seas, gentlemen.  For reals though it's to the point where I'm going to tone down lists specifically to have the chance to not win 
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Apr 22, 2015 14:50
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It's easy: don't bring a Wraithknight, don't spam jetbikes or Wraithguard. I plan on running the Dire Avenger formation thing because it's too cool. My standard list will look something like this: Three 10-elf units in Serpents a big unit of jetbikes to put the jetseer in one unit of Wraithguard in a Serpent because I have the models and they own FA: Warp Spiders, maybe a Crimson Hunter if I feel like it HS: pick three - 3 War Walkers with bright lances, a unit of 3 support batteries, Fire Prism, Night Spinner, Wraithlord I only have to buy some jetbikes and jetseer and I was planning on doing that anyway. I love this release.
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Apr 22, 2015 14:57
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Yeah I have a load of aspect warriors and I kinda want to use them. I don't have enough for a critical mass of any particular kind and none of the jumpy ones though.
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Apr 22, 2015 14:59
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