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I remember watching One Piece and it was great, they beat this Sand Dude up and each cast member had to fight a powerful villain at the end of the arc that challenged them. And all of these villains had been painstakingly built up across many different stories to show how powerful they were. Then they went to the Sky and everything stopped making any kind of sense narratively. Also, I'm sure I remember the ending of Shaman King being remarkably different to what everyone describes.
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Apr 22, 2015 11:36
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Yorkshire Tea posted:I remember watching One Piece and it was great, they beat this Sand Dude up and each cast member had to fight a powerful villain at the end of the arc that challenged them. And all of these villains had been painstakingly built up across many different stories to show how powerful they were. Then they went to the Sky and everything stopped making any kind of sense narratively. Alabasta was the conclusion of the Baroque Works Saga, meanwhile Skypia, while it introduced important concepts is sort of.... its own thing. But the best way to take One Piece is that it is a story of adventures, lots of adventures. So when one concludes another begins. After Skypia though we get.... well I'd call it the Government Saga, because from Water 7 to the end of Marineford really is its own narrative, with even Thriller Bark which comes out of left field mostly, setting up the themes that would eventually be touched upon. There's a good reason One Piece is the top selling manga period. With its books routinely selling in the 3-4 Million range. Skypia is amazing for one reason https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NEBD4WDuBo
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Apr 22, 2015 11:44
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Onmi posted:Skypia is amazing for one reason https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NEBD4WDuBo Two reasons: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGusdvz-SM0
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Apr 22, 2015 13:02
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Petiso posted:Mortadelo is certainly the last thing I expected to see on SA's Dragon Ball Z thread. Me atrevo a postear lo diferente.  Most Americans are familiar with Tintin as a Euro comic and a large number of them can recognize the characters from Asterix, but nobody in America knows of Mortadelo, but in Spain, Mortadelo dominates news kiosks and most of the kids I knew had at least one if not several Mortadelo books. Mortadelo and Goku are basically the same (not really)...well, they both transform. I'm guessing that American comics from DC and Marvel are generally bad because they want to tell too much story in too few pages and thus are forced to cram it all in but I can't substantiate that claim. Not all of them are bad either. Jeff Smith's limited run Captain Marvel comic for example is gorgeous AND has superb composition, poses, and flow. Go read it right now - most (North American) comic book stores have the graphic novel. Later today I'm going to talk about how comic book artists (with Toriyama as example) manipulate the perception of the flow of time, so please feel free to post any of your own examples on that.
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Apr 22, 2015 14:54
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Xibanya posted:Me atrevo a postear lo diferente. Well consider this. they have 20 pages to introduce a concept, have plot stuff, a fight and then a conclusion to said fight. Because on a monthly release schedule no comic would be caught dead say.... devoting more than a few pages to a battle. Ergo the compression is off the loving charts, and to be quite honest despite it all being about the Punchmans the punching itself isn't all that good. And I generally read Superhero comics. I like them, but man they have a lot of awful
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Apr 22, 2015 15:00
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Xibanya posted:Me atrevo a postear lo diferente. Old school comics crammed a lot of story in a few pages. I feel like today there's the opposite problem - there's a lot of decompression in the attempt to make comics feel more "cinematic", even though that's a different medium. Today they are made with trades in mind and not single issues.  Maybe American superhero comics are often crummy because they're churned out in huge numbers and are governed by a strict business sense. You have comics running for 70+ years and people having to deal with using characters they didn't create and having certain mandates dictated by the editor. What I'm trying to say, is that Marvel and DC have similar structures to big Hollywood studios where the control lies firmly in the hands of accountants and salespeople more than artists. Granted, this applies to a lot of manga as well, but at least in Japan, things tend to end and not go on longer than they have to. Long running franchises generally reboot themselves every couple years and start a new, somewhat related series with a separate cast of characters and storyline. Of course, things like Detective Conan, One Piece, Lupin the III and so on are exceptions in that they've been running for god knows how long.
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Apr 22, 2015 15:17
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Amorphous Blob posted:Didn't Kurama permanently fuse some dude to a plant or something right before the last fight? The anime made it much better. The second half of the fight is Yusuke realising he doesn't really have a reason to fight anymore, that he's only ever fought because Toguro and Sensui wanted to fight him. So that whole last fight is a nice wrap up on his character where he finally grows up and figures out what he actually wants to do with the rest of his life instead of fighting Demons all the time. Also the Smile Bomb ending gets me everytime so it has that going for it.
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Apr 22, 2015 15:23
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Gammatron 64 posted:Old school comics crammed a lot of story in a few pages. I feel like today there's the opposite problem - there's a lot of decompression in the attempt to make comics feel more "cinematic", even though that's a different medium. Today they are made with trades in mind and not single issues. That page came out at the height of the manga craze in America and its an example of what I'd call "cargo cult" art. I even have a "how to draw manga" book written by an American artist at the time that completely misses the point. They know manga is less compressed but they don't know why so they decompress all willy nilly thinking that will get them some cargo. The additional panels and spaces aren't communicating anything there, while the additional panels and spaces in Dragonball DO communicate something. Ack, at work again but at lunch I'll try using GIMP to do some quick and dirty edits to illustrate an example.
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Apr 22, 2015 15:31
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So why doesn't Piccolo ever use his growth ability anymore? It could been awesome to see him use in the Lord Slug movie to have him grow to a giant size when Lord Slug became a giant.
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Apr 22, 2015 17:06
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He should have used his clothes beam to put super heavy clothes on someone so they slowed down and he could punch them.
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Apr 22, 2015 17:10
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Piccolo could grow to huge size then rip off his limbs and solve world hunger. With this I attest that he hasn't changed at all  .
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Apr 22, 2015 17:11
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sharktamer posted:Piccolo could grow to huge size then rip off his limbs and solve world hunger. With this I attest that he hasn't changed at all Who'd want to eat giant demon slug arms? The French?
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Apr 22, 2015 17:13
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Yajirobe already did. He quite liked it.
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Apr 22, 2015 17:13
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Terper posted:Yajirobe already did. He quite liked it. Yeah but that one had dragon seasoning.
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Apr 22, 2015 17:17
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Rirse posted:So why doesn't Piccolo ever use his growth ability anymore? It could been awesome to see him use in the Lord Slug movie to have him grow to a giant size when Lord Slug became a giant. The answer is always "Toriyama forgot."
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Apr 22, 2015 17:39
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Some Numbers posted:The answer is always "Toriyama forgot."
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Apr 22, 2015 17:49
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Forget about the growth, if you have read One Piece imagine if Piccolo had exploited his stretchy powers.
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Apr 22, 2015 17:58
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Gammatron 64 posted:Old school comics crammed a lot of story in a few pages. I feel like today there's the opposite problem - there's a lot of decompression in the attempt to make comics feel more "cinematic", even though that's a different medium. Today they are made with trades in mind and not single issues. Something that will help you understand american comics (superhero ones at least) is that, ever since the 80's, the lion's share of their money is made through merchandising over comics, which was then topped by the current crop of superhero movies. As such, the pecking order puts the movies as the primary focus, merchandising second, and the actual comics in a tertiary position. Superhero comics are essentially used as blueprints for the movies since they are paltry in cost compared to the colossal investment it takes to fund a motion picture. Today's modern superhero tales are mainly used to manufacture memorable character moments instead of well-designed story arcs. They can market terrible story arcs with one or two great character moments in it and it would be considered a success in the Big Two's eyes, because they can uproot that select bit and place it in their upcoming movie/tv series and pair it with a decent script written by an entire team. It's a business move, pure and simple. Personally I think it dilutes the medium quite a bit, but it's their product, and if that's what they want to do with it, what ya gonna do?
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Apr 22, 2015 18:04
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AmiYumi posted:I actually bought and enjoyed THIS, and was texting passages from it to people both ironically and unironically the whole time. Sub-$4 book about a DB:Z catch phrase and actually takes it seriously? I'm intrigued.
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Apr 22, 2015 18:21
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Rirse posted:So why doesn't Piccolo ever use his growth ability anymore? It could been awesome to see him use in the Lord Slug movie to have him grow to a giant size when Lord Slug became a giant. They made fun of this in the DBZ:A of the first Cooler movie. When he's fighting the goon from Space France, he uses stretchy arms and the Nail/Piccolo internal monologue asks why he doesn't do that more often, and he says something along the lines of regularly forgetting that he can.
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Apr 22, 2015 18:25
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Parrotine posted:It's a business move, pure and simple. Personally I think it dilutes the medium quite a bit, but it's their product, and if that's what they want to do with it, what ya gonna do? Not pay money for them, obviously. Piccolo's size increase has the same problems as the Oozaru without the advantage of a power increase. He's slow and easier to hit, which I think Goku actually took advantage of. As for the stretch ability, I don't know. I don't really remember what happened when it was used but I doubt it's very practical outside of sneak attacks. facebook jihad fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Apr 22, 2015 |
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Apr 22, 2015 18:48
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Terper posted:He should have used his clothes beam to put super heavy clothes on someone so they slowed down and he could punch them. Finished watching the Piccolo Jr Saga and I was laughing at Kami using the Clothes Beam on Goku.
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Apr 22, 2015 18:50
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facebook jihad posted:Not pay money for them, obviously. What's funny is Piccolo's stretch ability is used all the time in games. Hell, Namekians in general have it as part of their basic combos in Xenoverse.
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Apr 22, 2015 18:52
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AmiYumi posted:I actually bought and enjoyed THIS, and was texting passages from it to people both ironically and unironically the whole time. This is relevant to my interests. How good is it?
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Apr 22, 2015 19:19
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The last time Piccolo used his whole stretchy arm gimmick was at King Kai's planet to get an electric Chaotsu off his back
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Apr 22, 2015 19:26
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Parrotine posted:The last time Piccolo used his whole stretchy arm gimmick was at King Kai's planet to get an electric Chaotsu off his back There was also the first Cooler movie.
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Apr 22, 2015 19:53
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Parrotine posted:Something that will help you understand american comics (superhero ones at least) is that, ever since the 80's, the lion's share of their money is made through merchandising over comics, which was then topped by the current crop of superhero movies. As such, the pecking order puts the movies as the primary focus, merchandising second, and the actual comics in a tertiary position. Superhero comics are essentially used as blueprints for the movies since they are paltry in cost compared to the colossal investment it takes to fund a motion picture. It's the same reason why shounen anime adaptations have such a long history of being loving awful (One Piece nowadays is particularly bad for it). The main money maker is the source manga and merchandise, the anime is literally just an advertisement for the manga, so they don't give two fucks if the anime is garbage, as long as they hold on to their timeslot and it keeps the product in the public conciousness.
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Apr 22, 2015 19:55
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Effort post time! Today we will discuss how Toriyama expresses the flow of time in Dragonball Communicating time in comics: going beyond film techniques Here’s a great view I saw the other day:  It doesn’t look that impressive, but it looked great in real life!  Aw yeah that looks pretty good. We all know choosing the view in a picture is pretty important, and knowing how to crop a scene is essential. But let’s return to the original picture. This is similar to the field of view I had when I was on the top of a parking garage taking this photo, but I was still able to get the full effect that the cropped image provides (better, in fact.) Why is that? It’s because the human eye is not a camera – our field of view is so big that we can basically isolate any part of what we’re looking at ~with our minds~ and exclude the rest. It’s also why wearing shutter shades I was able to see all of this unobstructed:  But anything close up was dicey. What does that have to do with comics? Well, let’s go back to the comics-as-film metaphor. Comics use a lot of the same camera angle techniques as film and for the same reasons. For example:             There are way more but you get the idea. And I did find a way to use the first few pages of Chapter 30! (Film shot examples taken from http://www.empireonline.com/features/film-studies-101-camera-shots-styles. I’m using a Portuguese scanslation today so you don’t pay attention to the words. Lusophones, cover your eyes!) Film, being a moving visual medium can do some things that comics can’t, like tracking and panning shots, although comics can roughly approximate them. But that doesn’t make comics a limited medium – on the contrary, it can do some things that film can’t. When we see a frame of a film, we know that we are seeing one moment encapsulated in time – everything we see in that frame is happening simultaneously. Not so for comics. The idea that everything in a panel is happening simultaneously is on its face absurd since generally panels involve one character speaking or thinking, so there at least has to be enough linear time passing for speech to happen. But it’s more than that. As we read a panel in the direction of the comic’s flow (left to right for English and other European languages, right to left for Japanese and presumably Arabic and Hebrew comics) the first object of the panel’s focus is what we perceive as acting first chronologically. As we sweep our eye across the panel, the next object of focus is perceived as acting second chronologically while the first object is still doing whatever it started doing at the beginning of the panel. Have a look here:  As I wrote previously, this panel has two areas of focus – Roshi and then the two boys together. Here’s the unaltered panel.  Roshi: we’re going to begin with running. Roshi: Follow me! Krillin: Yes, sir! Obviously Krillin isn’t saying “Yes, Sir!” at the same time Roshi is saying “we’re going to begin with running.” What is going on here is Roshi begins to jog, and then while he is still jogging, the boys react. We intuitively understand that while Krillin says “Yes, Sir,” Roshi is continuing to jog. It works because we can focus on one piece at a time; the panel is just one small part of a whole, just like a city skyline is just one small piece of a person's field of view. To provide another example, here are some panels from Mortadelo y Filemón:  We’re to understand that the man in the gray suit is still crawling away in fright while Mortadelo milks a goat onto the woman. Notice also how the art directs our eyes where they should go - we go from the scared man's foot to his hand as he begins to crawl away from the scene. We understand without thinking that he began crawling before Mortadelo began milking the goat and is still crawling while the woman freaks out. This ties back in with flow. An artist like Toriyama uses the art to point the reader in the correct direction – not just the right direction to read (left to right vs right to left) but also the right direction for reading the panel chronologically. It’s important because the events of the panel DON’T HAVE to happen in chronological order from whatever is on one end of the panel to the other. A good artist uses flow to ensure the reader goes forward in time correctly. A good comic artist can also use different panel sizes, word balloons, and other elements to manipulate our perception of how much time has passed in each panel. I have run out of lunch time, however, and will continue in a few hours.  I want to be this energetic when I first wake up. And if you want to catch up with the other entries, I threw them on this fancy new blog. Xibanya fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Apr 22, 2015 |
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Apr 22, 2015 20:18
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ATX boys we in it
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Apr 22, 2015 20:54
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Dragon Ball status update: 8/153               This show is pretty great.
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Apr 22, 2015 21:54
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chichis dress as a child proves ox king is a terrible father and toryiama is a terrible author for not letting her keep it when she showed back up at the end of dragonball
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Apr 22, 2015 21:58
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You can wear it in Xenoverse, and if you do and Android 18 is your master, she goes "woah ok not cool"
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Apr 22, 2015 22:00
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Terper posted:You can wear it in Xenoverse, and if you do and Android 18 is your master, she goes "woah ok not cool" ...huh? Why does 18 care if someone wears Chi-Chi's dress?  e: OH. Had to look again. My eyes were focusing on the helmet and not the jesus loving christ WHY Toriyama
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Apr 22, 2015 22:17
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does chichis helmet laser ignore power levels like the destructo disc
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Apr 22, 2015 22:22
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It's pretty much Dragon Quest armour without the clothes underneath, on a kid. Always thought that was weird.
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Apr 22, 2015 22:22
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Similar note for Mentor responses, I like Tien getting unnerved if you speak to him wearing Launch's outfit.
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Apr 22, 2015 22:37
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Dragonball is a way better manga than anime, and it's the world most powerful anime.
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Apr 22, 2015 22:54
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Goku ftw
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Apr 22, 2015 22:55
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Terper posted:You're reading My Hero Academia though right can this be the thread title
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Apr 22, 2015 22:55
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Who would win, Goku or All Might?
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Apr 22, 2015 22:57
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