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Eventually your DEX caps out at 20 and it stops mattering, though. If you want the highest AC possible (which isn't a crazy thing to want) and don't want to take disadvantage on stealth checks, Medium Armor Master is an inevitable +1 AC bonus. There are also a few magic armors that don't come in light variants. Again, very niche, but not totally useless. As a very specific example, a Rogue dipping Barbarian has to attack using strength to benefit from Reckless Attack, so you can't really afford boosting dexterity heavily in that circumstance. my back pages posted:So don't pick the feat? I don't see the problem here. This is not a good justification for poorly designed mechanics that wind up serving as traps for new players.
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Apr 21, 2015 22:36
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Just because something isn't very good doesn't mean it's a "trap". The game is no worse for having included it.
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Apr 21, 2015 22:39
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That's kind of exactly w hat it means. It looks appealing but is bad, which DOES impact the game negatively. You shouldn't have to study the game in detail to be able to make a reasonably effective character.
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Apr 21, 2015 22:41
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my back pages posted:So don't pick the feat? I don't see the problem here. my back pages posted:Just because something isn't very good doesn't mean it's a "trap". The game is no worse for having included it. Splicer fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Apr 21, 2015 |
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Apr 21, 2015 22:42
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Do you think taking this feat over +2 dex on a character that has 14 dex and wears medium armor suddenly makes it less than a "reasonably effective character"? What if you had a set of magic medium armor? What's the solution here? TO not include the feat at all? Well, what if I have a character that really wants to wear medium armor and still be stealthy?
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Apr 21, 2015 22:46
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my back pages posted:Just because something isn't very good doesn't mean it's a "trap". The game is no worse for having included it. Something being worse than something else while competing for the same spot and looking fine at a glance is like the very definition of a trap, scare quotes or not.
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Apr 21, 2015 22:47
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Splicer posted:It's presented as an option when it's flat out worse than the alternatives. This is called a trap option. Trap options are bad. Either the designers never did the math (bad) or they did but didn't bother fixing it (bad). Someone looking to make a particular dude will take the obvious option to do so and end up with a worse dude. This is bad. Or they did it intentionally because screw you. The 3e designers mentioned that toughness was one of the feats they made intentionally sucky to reward system mastery. I suspect the same philosophy carried through.
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Apr 21, 2015 22:47
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The solution is to make the feat better, so it's an actually legitimate choice in more than the most extreme edge-cases. Every feat on the list has to compete with gaining +1 to an ability score and proficiency in it's saves (Resilient is really good). Medium Armor Master has nothing on Savage Attacker though, that's just irredeemable.
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Apr 21, 2015 22:53
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my back pages posted:What's the solution here? TO not include the feat at all? It's this. my back pages posted:Well, what if I have a character that really wants to wear medium armor and still be stealthy? Assuming the feat is deleted, you'd have to choose between "wear medium armor and higher AC" or "wear medium armor and be stealthy." Notably, this choice currently exists; all the feat does is muddy the waters and make you think trying to do both is better than using light armor. Vanguard Warden posted:The solution is to make the feat better, so it's an actually legitimate choice in more than the most extreme edge-cases. Vanguard Warden posted:Medium Armor Master has nothing on Savage Attacker though, that's just irredeemable. It's basically a +2 to your average damage with  two-handers. Like a handful of feats, this might be ok once you've maxed out your primary, but probably not before.
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Apr 21, 2015 22:56
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+1.9  , but only with a greataxe. It gets worse if you use anything smaller. Also, you can only use it once per turn. Maybe you can convince your DM to let you use Large-scale weapons?
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Apr 21, 2015 23:13
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my back pages posted:Do you think taking this feat over +2 dex on a character that has 14 dex and wears medium armor suddenly makes it less than a "reasonably effective character"? What if you had a set of magic medium armor? What's the solution here? TO not include the feat at all? Well, what if I have a character that really wants to wear medium armor and still be stealthy?
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Apr 21, 2015 23:23
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thespaceinvader posted:At that point, why roll at all? 
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Apr 22, 2015 00:35
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gradenko_2000 posted:To be fair, there is a variant rule for that: Please stop removing items from my extremely short list of things that are remotely interesting about Next, tia.
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Apr 22, 2015 00:40
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Splicer posted:Make a version that works. That's the design part of being a designer. That sounds like a lot of work compared to not doing it and having people praise you for what a good job you did anyway.
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Apr 22, 2015 00:43
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Xelkelvos posted:It starts with a v. It's more rulesfeel - rolling a dice does a good way of physically separating speech that represents the character acting from other speech. It's a rather neglected aspect of design which oddly, the earlier D&Ds did quite well at because they were developed organically.
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Apr 22, 2015 00:52
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hyphz posted:Thing is, the points buy/array system in 5e is kind of messed up. Basically, the number of points is right for the average of rolled ability scores, but there's also the restriction that you can't have higher than a 15 (or 16 if you use the array). My thinking about 5e is starting to turn in the direction of "Let people roll and if their dice are poo poo, let them take a point-buy or array." This is especially compounded by the M.A.D. classes in the game not being all that good.
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Apr 22, 2015 21:11
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Let all your players start with 18s in everything, who gives a gently caress.
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Apr 22, 2015 22:43
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Just hit lvl 7 and not sure what two new spells to pick (Abj Wiz). Some of the spells, like Ice Storm and Sskin were found in an enemy's spellbook. Playing in Adventurer's League/Tyranny of Dragons if that matters. R=Ritual, C-* = a Concentration spell targeting *save 0: Firebolt, Minor Illusion, Light, Ray of Frost 1: Alarm, Mage Armor, Shield, Find Familiar (R), Tasha's Hid Laugh(C-Wis), MMiss, Sleep, Burning Hands, Detect Magic (R) 2: Hold Person (C-Wis), Scorching Ray, Phantasmal Force(C-Int), Blindness(Con save, but not a concentrate spell), Misty Step, Suggestion(C-Wis) 3: Hypnotic Pattern(C-Wis), Fireball, Leo's Tiny Hut (R), Counterspell, Fly (C) 4: Ice Storm(Dex), Stone Skin(C) 5: Cone of Cold(Con, not Conc) -Haven't copied to spellbook yet. I'm considering Dispel Magic and polymorph so that I can turn into a giant ape and punch things, only hesitation is that beasts stop at 8 and I don't have proficiency in Con throws or Warcaster e* I am correct in assuming that I still have to make a concentrate roll every time I get hit while polymorphed correct? I'm at least two levels behind everyone else and we're about to fight an adult green dragon, and I'm not trying to die. e2* Was also considering Haste, because our barbarian has the legendary Greatsword Hwarzin from HotDQ, and can put out serious damage. odinson fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Apr 22, 2015 |
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Apr 22, 2015 22:48
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odinson posted:I'm at least two levels behind everyone else wtf? Why am I surprised people still do this regressive crap? So much for worrying about rolling for stats.
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Apr 22, 2015 23:01
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Polymorph is pretty ridiculous. Turn yourself into a dinosaur or turn a big enemy into a snail or something. You can also pick up Fabricate to do months' worth of muggle work in 10 minutes, or Greater Invisibility to be immune to any sort of rebuke while you cast spells and attack people (or cast it on the rogue and get free sneak attacks for an entire encounter)
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Apr 22, 2015 23:06
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The only reason I'm ~ two levels behind is because my normal Adv L. DM is taking 3-4 weeks off to have a kid. I joined another party that is around 3 "episodes" ahead of my group. They're actually in the second book, so I've missed the climax/xp/loot from the big finale in the first. You are supposed/have to be Lvl 8 to start the 2nd book. Only reason I was able to join that one because some folks didn't show in their group, and my friend had started playing in said group weeks prior. So it was either play with them or sit around for over two hours and twiddle my thumbs. Every Sunday, they do these one-shots, called Encounters (I believe). That is where you can get some extra XP, items, and gold. However, I work every Sunday and can not attend.
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Apr 22, 2015 23:17
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odinson posted:The only reason I'm ~ two levels behind is because my normal Adv L. DM is taking 3-4 weeks off to have a kid. I joined another party that is around 3 "episodes" ahead of my group. They're actually in the second book, so I've missed the climax/xp/loot from the big finale in the first. You are supposed/have to be Lvl 8 to start the 2nd book. Only reason I was able to join that one because some folks didn't show in their group, and my friend had started playing in said group weeks prior. So it was either play with them or sit around for over two hours and twiddle my thumbs. Every Sunday, they do these one-shots, called Encounters (I believe). That is where you can get some extra XP, items, and gold. However, I work every Sunday and can not attend. I don't get how people do this honestly. If I was sitting down at a table with a bunch of strangers with a character from another game entirely and this was the local rules, I'd miraculously be two levels above everyone else every time. Also would you believe a vorpal sword dropped last session and my DM said I could have all the spells?
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Apr 22, 2015 23:51
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The other game I played it was at a table 15' away. In Adv. Lg you have to record all your stuff earned on a log sheet with everything was gained or lost relevant to your character with the DM's DCI #. Magical Items have their own wotc made cardboard cutouts that have to be signed.
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Apr 22, 2015 23:58
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Job requirements: * All DMs must be certified notaries.
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Apr 22, 2015 23:59
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Bongo Bill posted:Let all your players start with 18s in everything, who gives a gently caress. Actually, that doesn't sound like a bad idea for 3.P or 5e.
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Apr 23, 2015 00:04
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odinson posted:The other game I played it was at a table 15' away. In Adv. Lg you have to record all your stuff earned on a log sheet with everything was gained or lost relevant to your character with the DM's DCI #. Magical Items have their own wotc made cardboard cutouts that have to be signed. Everything about this just makes me want to mess with it. I want to get four friends and start my own table at a league, just throw the magic items at them, have all the monsters die from coronary heart disease when the players enter the room, make everyone level 20, unleash them on the rest of the room. It's like seeing a picture of a nerd adjusting his calculator watch and he's standing right by a pool.
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Apr 23, 2015 00:05
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GrizzlyCow posted:Actually, that doesn't sound like a bad idea for 3.P or 5e. But... but it would devalue medium and heavy armors! 
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Apr 23, 2015 00:06
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Dick Burglar posted:But... but it would devalue medium and heavy armors! Use Mithril?
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Apr 23, 2015 00:24
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odinson posted:The other game I played it was at a table 15' away. In Adv. Lg you have to record all your stuff earned on a log sheet with everything was gained or lost relevant to your character with the DM's DCI #. Magical Items have their own wotc made cardboard cutouts that have to be signed. okay, if this is how you want to game - more fun to you. But to me it sounds like poo poo, go and play WoW.
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Apr 23, 2015 01:08
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Anyone have a rundown of the EE stuff handy? Any standouts? One of my 5e groups is switching campaigns/DMs and he's including the EE stuff. No word on what the backstory is yet, but I figure I'll play another spellcaster of some kind, especially if it's going to be elemental-themed. Also, I know this was probably already covered, but it's so amazingly :5e: that the only new class features EE adds are new spells, and they take up over half the PDF.
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Apr 23, 2015 02:48
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Something of particular note is evocation wizards. At level 3 they get a feature they makes their damaging cantrips do half damage when the target saves. At level 10, all of their evocation spells get a bonus to their damage rolls equal to their intelligence modifier. In the base spell list available from the PHB, there isn't a single wizard evocation cantrip that triggers a saving throw instead of making an attack roll. EE adds two spells that fit both of these criteria: Frostbite and Thunderclap. Other than that, Aarakocra have a 50' flight speed and are busted if your DM doesn't come up with ways to hamstring that. Bonfire can be effective if you're creative and can get a bottleneck going, or hold something down on top of it. Absorb Elements is good for when something targets your saving throws and Shield doesn't affect it (and boosts melee spell attacks, not just weapon attacks). Beast Bond seems like a boon for beastmaster rangers, but a lot of good animal companions knock stuff prone anyway. Nothing else seems particularly noteworthy.
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Apr 23, 2015 03:46
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theironjef posted:Everything about this just makes me want to mess with it. I want to get four friends and start my own table at a league, just throw the magic items at them, have all the monsters die from coronary heart disease when the players enter the room, make everyone level 20, unleash them on the rest of the room. It's like seeing a picture of a nerd adjusting his calculator watch and he's standing right by a pool. starkebn posted:okay, if this is how you want to game - more fun to you. But to me it sounds like poo poo, go and play WoW. In other news, I totally meant to post my question in the newbie advice forum. Mea culpa.
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Apr 23, 2015 05:04
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While I empathize with using Adventurer's League as a sort of "strictly regimented gaming is better than no gaming" solution, it seems to run contrary to the spirit of RPGs to be, well, strictly regimented. At least with a system that resists pure RAW interpretation as much as 5e does.
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Apr 23, 2015 05:23
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gradenko_2000 posted:While I empathize with using Adventurer's League as a sort of "strictly regimented gaming is better than no gaming" solution, it seems to run contrary to the spirit of RPGs to be, well, strictly regimented. I have literally never heard anyone talk about any sort of Living/Organized League roleplaying in a way that didn't make it sound like the most miserable way to spend one's time in existence. All the fun of joyless, petty bureaucracies managed by nerds combined with the typical high standards of quality found in most prewritten adventures, sign me the gently caress up.
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Apr 23, 2015 06:51
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gradenko_2000 posted:While I empathize with using Adventurer's League as a sort of "strictly regimented gaming is better than no gaming" solution, it seems to run contrary to the spirit of RPGs to be, well, strictly regimented. Why do some people Adventurer's League tabletop RPGs? Why do some people want to be dominated by a person in black leather wielding a whip? I feel like the answers to these questions are related, but alas 
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Apr 23, 2015 09:27
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Kai Tave posted:I have literally never heard anyone talk about any sort of Living/Organized League roleplaying in a way that didn't make it sound like the most miserable way to spend one's time in existence. All the fun of joyless, petty bureaucracies managed by nerds combined with the typical high standards of quality found in most prewritten adventures, sign me the gently caress up. If there was a sort of tournament style competition and reward setup going on, it'd make more sense. As it is, it seems like organization for the sake of organization. There's also the factor that the system itself isn't rigorously ruled enough to make organised play completely consistent
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Apr 23, 2015 16:07
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Kai Tave posted:I have literally never heard anyone talk about any sort of Living/Organized League roleplaying in a way that didn't make it sound like the most miserable way to spend one's time in existence. All the fun of joyless, petty bureaucracies managed by nerds combined with the typical high standards of quality found in most prewritten adventures, sign me the gently caress up. I had a lot of fun in the 4E LFR games that went around the Denver area; for a while there were tons of games and people generally ended up playing through adventure lines with mostly the same group. It's not the same kind of fun as a group of friends doing a campaign, sure, but organized play lets you at least feel like you're part of something bigger. Hell, the two Battle Interactives I've been to are personal high points in playing D&D just because they were different from your normal play experience.
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Apr 23, 2015 16:15
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So Sword Coast Legends is apparently already available for pre order for Q3 2015. What I'm wondering is what are they going to let you put on the Fighter's action bar, or even a low-level Ranger's action bar?
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Apr 24, 2015 05:43
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No you see it's actually an advantage not having your UI cluttered up with action bars, some people might be new to computer games and have a hard time finding their way around otherwise.
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Apr 24, 2015 07:29
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Okay, so I did a bit more digging around watched some gameplay videos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08JKkIBzqK0 (single player gameplay) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1frJpYU74jo (player-vs-DM gameplay) The Rogue used Whirlwind Attack, Deathstrike, Misty Step, Substitution. The Fighter used Combat Superiority, Second Wind, Shield Bash, Victorious Surge. They were just defaulting to "attack" an awful lot of the time though. Also, the abilities had cooldown timers on them, and Vancian casting wasn't enforced, and there was this:  So it's pretty clear that this is only very loosely based on D&D rules much in the same way that the Neverwinter MMO was. The DM mode is interesting because the "DM Threat" mechanic puts a limit on how much of a dick you can be at any one time, but otherwise seems to encourage adversarial play a fair bit.
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Apr 24, 2015 08:16
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