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gently caress you all Dusty the kangaroo is convinced he is a dog and loves life on the farm at Wittenoom Hills, near Esperance in Western Australia  Two-year-old Dusty the kangaroo is convinced he is a dog. Ashley Stewart and his family farm at Wittenoom Hills, 60 kilometres north-east of Esperance, in Western Australia. Mr Stewart rescued the joey after its mother was killed when hit by a car in a road accident. "We weren't sure he would even survive but we fed him and of course he's just taken off from there," he said. "He lives on the back patio. We've actually had to go and buy a third dog bed for him to sleep in because he used to pinch one of the beds from the dogs." Mr Stewart said Lilly the golden retriever and Rosie the border collie loved their kangaroo. "He thinks Lilly is his mum, he's always grooming her, they're always together and if Lilly goes out of the yard he pines for her and sort of hops up and down the fence until he's let out to go with her." Mr Stewart said Dusty, the kangaroo, wore a collar like a dog. "When he was little we let him out during the day and then we'd get him at night and lock him back up in the backyard and we couldn't find him because they don't make any noise and they just sit very still so I'd have to go out in the dark with a torch. "So I got a collar and I put some reflective tape on it so it would shine out in the torch light and I could find him."
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Apr 23, 2015 09:37
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gotta keep those house prices high
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Apr 23, 2015 09:37
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Negligent posted:I have a well founded fear of persecution on the basis of race and political beliefs (people were mean to me on the internet because I'm not white or leftist) therefore I am morally justified in paying money to someone to help me put myself and others in a position of peril (where we may in fact die or suffer injury) in order to subsequently receive rescue. Down with this sort of thing
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Apr 23, 2015 09:40
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death death death
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Apr 23, 2015 09:46
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Re: push/pull factors, I think Australians' perceptions of both refugees and our own economy come from the same wellspring: we're so provincial, so narrow-minded, that we refuse to accept that the outside world exists and influences us. Everything must surely be the result of our own government's policy and nothing else. I feel like the end game of Australian society, from a cultural narrative perspective, is to be brutally conquered by a Chinese empire in the mid-20th century. To finally have the outside world force itself on us in a way we can't ignore.
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Apr 23, 2015 09:46
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They said it couldn't be done. They said that he was too risky. They said it wasn't financially viable. But none of those things matter to the Greens, so we insured him anyway!   
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Apr 23, 2015 09:55
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Negligent posted:I have a well founded fear of persecution on the basis of race and political beliefs (people were mean to me on the internet because I'm not white or leftist) therefore I am morally justified in paying money to someone to help me put myself and others in a position of peril (where we may in fact die or suffer injury) in order to subsequently receive rescue. Okay. I suggest heading to Cambodia.
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Apr 23, 2015 10:06
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Waaaah the Christians are out to get me
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Tinge Glen
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Apr 23, 2015 10:09
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Negligent posted:I have a well founded fear of persecution on the basis of race and political beliefs (people were mean to me on the internet because I'm not white or leftist) therefore I am morally justified in paying money to someone to help me put myself and others in a position of peril (where we may in fact die or suffer injury) in order to subsequently receive rescue. The fact that you lump me with this guy says more about you lot than it does about me.
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Apr 23, 2015 10:11
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Apr 23, 2015 10:11
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Laserface posted:The free market is deciding. let it decide for itself. If there's one way to fix lovely industry conditions it's definitely less regulation.
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Apr 23, 2015 10:11
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Graic Gabtar posted:I will definitely grant you there are costs for OSB that would be another dimension as well. Lets go with enlightened self interest, because I am not sure you care about right and wrong. I want to see light shone on every single aspect of the government exercising it's monopoly on the use of force, so that if it is used on me, then I am protected by the same transparency. Best summed up with a quote by a nice old monk, from 70 years ago. The last time people tried the whole put undesirables in camps thing.
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Apr 23, 2015 10:14
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I Grab Cat Rag
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Apr 23, 2015 10:15
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I don't want to be associated with you either Craig, I might get piss on me
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Apr 23, 2015 10:16
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https://twitter.com/openlabor This reeks of *change from within*, otherwise known as steal Greens policies because we fear they're going to take more of our votes.
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Apr 23, 2015 10:20
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KennyTheFish posted:Lets go with enlightened self interest, because I am not sure you care about right and wrong. I'm happy to have a level of transparency but I don't always expect it to be a minute by minute account. Sometimes I think that is people's main issue. e: What makes you think I don't care about right and wrong?
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Apr 23, 2015 10:24
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Graic Gabtar posted:I will definitely grant you there are costs for OSB that would be another dimension as well. When it relates to policy development, there's a pretty good need to know. If the justification for a law is "so that people don't drown at sea" when in reality the same number of people are making the trip, the policy is clearly not functioning. I'd expect the same level of transparency in any other part of policy development.
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Apr 23, 2015 10:26
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Gough Suppressant posted:If there's one way to fix lovely industry conditions it's definitely less regulation. Well if the taxi industry was at all intelligent (hint: they arent) they would lower prices, increase driver knowledge and training and improve the quality of their cars and services to compete. Sitting on their Collective fat asses in their short navy-blue shorts with their socks pulled up and complaining that people like a better quality service more than theirs is not going to get them anywhere.
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Apr 23, 2015 10:26
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Orkin Mang posted:i doubt u really care what happens to them tho. people here melt down every time u post but come on, u dont actually give a poo poo You can doubt all you like but I don't think its a stretch to have a view that if we choose to detain people we should treat them humanely. To be honest I don't understand the hysteria when I post here. I don't agree with some of the things people say but I don't freak out. I was initially shocked by some of the crap people would say but now it just funny as some of it is pretty clever.
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Apr 23, 2015 10:37
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Murodese posted:When it relates to policy development, there's a pretty good need to know. If the justification for a law is "so that people don't drown at sea" when in reality the same number of people are making the trip, the policy is clearly not functioning. I'd expect the same level of transparency in any other part of policy development. Pleading ignorance here but don't they report numbers on OSB?
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Apr 23, 2015 10:43
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Graic Gabtar posted:Pleading ignorance here but don't they report numbers on OSB? 
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Apr 23, 2015 10:51
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Graic Gabtar posted:
You asked me what it mattered to me that we are abusing people for the express purpose of trying to stop someone else doing something. About the biggest wrong there is, short of genocide. Every thing about offshore detention stinks. It is harder, costlier and more dangerous. If there is no good reason for a policy, I am left with the conclusions that the reasons are not good.
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Apr 23, 2015 11:03
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I'm pretty sure I've seen some reports on briefings and such so I'm assuming the lack of live web streaming from the RAN is the problem?
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Apr 23, 2015 11:17
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KennyTheFish posted:You asked me what it mattered to me that we are abusing people for the express purpose of trying to stop someone else doing something. About the biggest wrong there is, short of genocide. Hey, let's have some honesty in reporting here. We were talking about OSB transparency. You've made the off-shore detention / leap to genocide argument in your own head.
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Apr 23, 2015 11:25
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Graic Gabtar posted:I'm pretty sure I've seen some reports on briefings and such so I'm assuming the lack of live web streaming from the RAN is the problem? OSB does not report statistics on turnbacks, whether returned to point of origin / third location on the boats they came on or on Australian boats.
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Apr 23, 2015 11:31
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norp posted:Yes, the policy is explicit in it's goal to make going back to the place you left more attractive. A few years ago I said to a relative, rather hyperbolically, "the only way to make people stop attempting to seek refugee status is to make conditions worse than what they came from. What that means is that given what they're fleeing from we'd have to rape and murder people in front of their families so that's obviously not ever going to happen." ... 
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Apr 23, 2015 11:32
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Gough Suppressant posted:OSB does not report statistics on turnbacks, whether returned to point of origin / third location on the boats they came on or on Australian boats. OK, if no-one is being taken to Nauru or Manus similar to what I was asking before do people need to know or do they just want to know?
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Apr 23, 2015 11:43
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Graic Gabtar posted:OK, if no-one is being taken to Nauru or Manus similar to what I was asking before do people need to know or do they just want to know? We would need to know this to be able to judge the truth and merit behind the arguments our politicians make, and the policies they enact. If our policies are justified with arguments like: "we're stopping people from wanting to come by boat at all, thus preventing deaths at sea", but then just turning boats back and saying "welp! No boats showed up! We stopped them!" having transparent access to this knowledge would prove the argument false, and the policy useless at acheiving its alleged goal.
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Apr 23, 2015 11:47
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Graic Gabtar posted:OK, if no-one is being taken to Nauru or Manus similar to what I was asking before do people need to know or do they just want to know? If the policy is "putting people in detention is actually in the interest of those seeking asylum, as it discourages them from risking their life on a boat", you need to actually demonstrate that you are stopping people from getting on boats. In the absence of that evidence, the simplest explanation is that your policy is actually just designed to pander to racist attitudes in the electorate.
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Apr 23, 2015 11:50
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freebooter posted:Re: push/pull factors, I think Australians' perceptions of both refugees and our own economy come from the same wellspring: we're so provincial, so narrow-minded, that we refuse to accept that the outside world exists and influences us. Everything must surely be the result of our own government's policy and nothing else. See I think it's a cover story for cruelty. I find it hard to believe anybody who can dress themself would honestly think people would leave everything behind and risk their lives to beg for asylum here in search of that sweet welfare rather than fleeing wars which are on the news every night. Somebody post that "gently caress off we're Gough Suppressant posted:
I've never seen any evidence otherwise and it's not for lack of looking or asking. SMILLENNIALSMILLEN fucked around with this message at 11:53 on Apr 23, 2015 |
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Apr 23, 2015 11:51
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Bifauxnen posted:We would need to know this to be able to judge the truth and merit behind the arguments our politicians make, and the policies they enact. If our policies are justified with arguments like: "we're stopping people from wanting to come by boat at all, thus preventing deaths at sea", but then just turning boats back and saying "welp! No boats showed up! We stopped them!" having transparent access to this knowledge would prove the argument false, and the policy useless at acheiving its alleged goal. Yeah I can buy that argument, but its sounds a little simplistic. How do you define "truth". If boats are still coming you can argue that it's doing nothing to save lives. If boats are still coming you can argue that without OSB there would have been less. If boats are still coming you can argue that without OSB there would have been more. If boats are still coming you can argue that without OSB there would have been more and people would have died. Let's just say for example if the Government decided to go down Europe's new policy route of saying, "You're all going back" what would you say to that if there was the same detail of reporting? Would you care then?
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Apr 23, 2015 11:58
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katlington posted:See I think it's a cover story for cruelty. I find it hard to believe anybody who can dress themself would honestly think people would leave everything behind and risk their lives to beg for asylum here in search of that sweet welfare rather than fleeing wars which are on the news every night. Oh, deaths at sea is absolutely a cover story for cruelty, or rather racism - the fundamental desire to keep brown people out. You'll notice that it was never a concern prior to 2011, when a ship very visibly smashed into the rocks at Christmas Island and the footage was in all the evening news bulletins. Not that there was any sudden epiphany in the community - my Facebook feed, for one, was full of "GOT WHAT YOU DESERVE" - but rather that politicians suddenly had an angle they could play to try to simultaneously appeal to both the racists and the lefties. But I think most Australians also genuinely accept the concept of "pull factors," and think that a rise in arrivals must be intrinsically linked the ever-fluctuating vagaries of Gillard's or Rudd's policies. It's not that pull factors don't exist, exactly, just that they're massively outweighed by push factors to the point of being negligible. And I think it's linked to the same part of the dopey Australian brain which cannot conceptualise the world outside our country as being anything other than a holiday destination, a marketplace for iron ore or a recipient of charitable aid. Hence the erroneous belief that the Treasurer has more control over interest rates than the US Congress or the Chinese Communist Party. edit - and I think a lot of Australians hold to the belief that they may be genuine refugees, but they're trying to game the system by getting into Australia rather than an equally impoverished country; there's a notion that just because you're a refugee doesn't entitle you to escape poverty. This is usually wrapped up under the "lots of other Muslim countries right next to them" line, and there's definitely an element of xenophobia to it, but I also think it's a way of avoiding the uncomfortable truth that, really, an economic migrant is not much less deserving of coming to Australia than somebody fleeing violence and persecution. freebooter fucked around with this message at 12:01 on Apr 23, 2015 |
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Apr 23, 2015 11:59
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Graic Gabtar posted:Let's just say for example if the Government decided to go down Europe's new policy route of saying, "You're all going back" what would you say to that if there was the same detail of reporting? Would you care then? If we just openly sent everybody back, it would still be a horrible policy, but it would be much more honest than the current one. And easier to debate and discuss it with people without getting mired in constant obfuscation and doublethink over what's actually happening or not, and what things we're actually responsible for. It might even be easier to get people mad and complaining about it. Since while it would still look bad for us to just callously send people back to where they came from, it doesn't carry the same sort of continued, active abuse of choosing to keep people locked up in bad conditions despite every report and costing showing it's pointless. There comes a point when a big lie becomes much easier to believe than a small lie. It's just too awful for some people to even let themselves believe the stories could be real, so instead they believe the human rights advocates and lawyers must be making things up or inciting riots just for their own profit. That's actually easier for people to swallow.
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Apr 23, 2015 12:07
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Gough Suppressant posted:If the policy is "putting people in detention is actually in the interest of those seeking asylum, as it discourages them from risking their life on a boat", you need to actually demonstrate that you are stopping people from getting on boats. How is the Government going to evidence that people in Indonesia (or further upstream) aren't saying, "gently caress that, I'm not paying to get on a boat just to be back here tomorrow!" Survey Monkey? Of course politics is a huge part of this. Howard played Tampa like a pro. You guys spend have your time calling me a racist. You call all of Australia racist. It's about as convincing an argument that foreigners steal all our jobs. I think it's partly that but for reasons that are worse. For good or bad I think the world is incredibly weary of the challenges of warfare, mass migration, poverty and injustice and simply cannot give a gently caress anymore.
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Apr 23, 2015 12:11
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Appeals are under way. What actually happened was the AEC did their yearly check to make sure the Dems were still alive and a bunch of people who left the party didn't actually notify the party that they were chucking in their membership. So when the AEC called random people to check, a bunch of them said "no, we're not members" and the AEC took that as "well, there's not enough members, guess the Democrats are going down the gurgler". We actually have something like 1000 members nationwide according to Darren Churchill, so there's a pretty good chance of the appeal succeeding. I'm obviously not happy about the situation, but all I can do is sit tight while Darren tries to fix things. Also, the deregistration is only on the national level: the NSW Dems are still kicking and have appointed me as both Regional Officer for the North West and a member of the publicity team.
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Apr 23, 2015 12:34
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Bifauxnen posted:If we just openly sent everybody back, it would still be a horrible policy, but it would be much more honest than the current one. And easier to debate and discuss it with people without getting mired in constant obfuscation and doublethink over what's actually happening or not, and what things we're actually responsible for. Bifauxnen posted:It might even be easier to get people mad and complaining about it. Since while it would still look bad for us to just callously send people back to where they came from, it doesn't carry the same sort of continued, active abuse of choosing to keep people locked up in bad conditions despite every report and costing showing it's pointless. There comes a point when a big lie becomes much easier to believe than a small lie. It's just too awful for some people to even let themselves believe the stories could be real, so instead they believe the human rights advocates and lawyers must be making things up or inciting riots just for their own profit. That's actually easier for people to swallow. Look at me. I spend too much time on this politically charged forum and although I'll spend a little bit of time pondering the issues I'm not really experiencing a massive urge to get "mad". You may call me nasty names at times, but I don't think I'm alone. On your last point, and another I have been slammed on but I don't think there is anything as a closed system. I don't care if it's suggestion, false hope, attitude - whatever. The mix of asylum seekers, lawyers, advocates, guards whatever brings out certain behaviors in people be it by design or otherwise. Besides some notable individual incidents I don't think you can lay the blame at one the feet of one party, but the mix seems rather toxic. One of my good friends was an asylum seeker. He spent three years in detention (not Australia). He never rioted, sewed his lips together or drank draino. He describes to me how it was cold (so not Nauru), boring, crowded, depressing and a poo poo process but it was the choice he made so he put up with it. He tells me how many people would gently caress around with the system and surprise, surprise it was a lot harder for them.
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Apr 23, 2015 12:37
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Boat people chat in the European Politics thread is even worse than this one and that's saying something.
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Apr 23, 2015 12:38
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Graic Gabtar posted:How is the Government going to evidence that people in Indonesia (or further upstream) aren't saying, "gently caress that, I'm not paying to get on a boat just to be back here tomorrow!" They could start by not withholding statistics on the number of boats they have intercepted and turned back.
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Apr 23, 2015 12:42
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ScreamingLlama posted:Also, the deregistration is only on the national level: the NSW Dems are still kicking and have appointed me as both Regional Officer for the North West and a member of the publicity team. With you at the helm, what could go wrong?!
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Apr 23, 2015 12:43
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Jumpingmanjim posted:Boat people chat in the European Politics thread is even worse than this one and that's saying something. They are arguing the merits of Oracle over MSSQL.
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Apr 23, 2015 12:46
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