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Cultural Imperial posted:Cmon how could you possibly expect white trash to see beyond the tip of their noses? Haha - the guy really does look like a exquisite moron.
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Apr 23, 2015 18:46
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Cultural Imperial posted:Cmon how could you possibly expect white trash to see beyond the tip of their noses? See? This is what happens when you pay the proletariat too well.
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Apr 23, 2015 18:49
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Upper-middle class is the worst social strata.
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Apr 23, 2015 18:53
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Xoidanor posted:Upper-middle class is the worst social strata. Class has nothing to do with money.
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Apr 23, 2015 18:59
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I'm gonna commit sociology all over this thread: It seems to me that one of the biggest issues we have, culturally, in this country is the entrenched perception (especially among young people) that we do not own our country. We have no connection to our land, to our surroundings, and we feel that corporations or politicians have more claim to it than those born here. More and more the attitude is one of transient rentiers, not just in terms of real estate, and this is reflected in our household debt. This has lead to gross apathy across the spectrum in young people, who either check out and become neo-bohemians, or fully immerse themselves in "lifestyle" and the pursuit of money to support it, to the detriment of education or healthy lives. This is a bad thing.
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Apr 23, 2015 19:00
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Why do you think the pursuit of money is incompatible with a healthy life, or education? I am educated, I endeavour to be more so, I'm reasonably healthy (there's the liquor and smokes, but those aren't really associated with my pursuit of money), and I enjoy pursuing money and then spending it, within my means. It's pretty grand, actually. You don't have to be some tit, leveraged to the hilt for a brand new BMW and a Vancouver condo, to have a really fine, even luxurious, life. I've distilled it down to two rules: 1) Learn to cook well, and learn enough about things like wine that you can score good-quality bargains. You'll be eating and drinking as well as someone that spends four times as much, because they're doing it at restaurants. 2) Don't let ego provoke spending. As soon as you reckon you have to keep up with someone else, you're hosed. Spend money on stuff you like or need, not what you think you ought to have because someone else has it.
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Apr 23, 2015 19:08
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Christ he acts like "big oil" tricked him into going into massive debt by... paying him too much? I have no sympathy for these people.
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Apr 23, 2015 19:17
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Baronjutter posted:Christ he acts like "big oil" tricked him into going into massive debt by... paying him too much? I have no sympathy for these people. But it always just worked out before!! How was he supposed to know it wouldn't work out now???
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Apr 23, 2015 19:19
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Saltin posted:Class has nothing to do with money. Class has everything to do with money in contemporary society.
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Apr 23, 2015 19:21
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Lexicon posted:Did you folks see this one? http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/downturn-pushes-debt-burdened-to-seek-help-with-financial-woes-1.3042860 This seems more appropriate, as he is acting like a recovering addict.
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Apr 23, 2015 19:22
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Xoidanor posted:Class has everything to do with money in contemporary society. Would you consider that debt wrangled Albertan a member of the bourgeois upper class?
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Apr 23, 2015 19:26
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jm20 posted:Would you consider that debt wrangled Albertan a member of the bourgeois upper class? No, they're part of the middle class and upper-middle class. Calling anyone who's riches rest in a boom-bust cycle upper-class income which is spent almost entirely on car loans, mortgages and luxury items upper-class is laughable.
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Apr 23, 2015 19:39
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Debt seems to barely correlate with income. Someone barely getting by at 30k a year might have a bunch of credit card debt and some lovely payday loans they absolutely had to deal with because their car broke down or they kid got super sick and forced them to take time off work. Then you can give the same family a 200k income and they'll find a way into debt. They'll go from barely able to pay their rent in a lovely slum to barely able to pay their mortgage in a huge McMansion. They'll go from being too stressed and busy to cook or shop so blowing their money on fast food to being too stressed and busy to cook or shop so constantly eating out or ordering in. Instead of being a poor person daring to waste their money on a new iphone they'll be a middle class person blowing 20k on their home theatre room, or some stupid loving motorcycle or what ever. We just are not taught any sort of financial responsibility. Your income isn't your spending money, your income is just some number that the bank looks at tell you how big of a mortgage or line or credit you can have. There is no thought given to retirement, or next year, or even next month. What is the max I can spend this month right now? I will keep buying things until my credit card runs out, and then I'll get another one. It will be fine, I make a good wage and my house payments are killing me but I'll get double back when I sell. Nothing will ever change, my house will keep going up, my company will continue to give me raises. Everything will work out because it always has. We make enough money that rent is only 1/3 of our income, the rest goes towards food, car payment, and other bills and fun, and what's left goes into savings. Every month we make sure we always break even, or hopefully make a profit. Those profits then get put into an investment account. If you're not living below the poverty line there's no excuse to not be saving each month. Just live within your means idiots. Hell you don't even have to be putting 10% each month into savings, just.. just don't spend more than you make??? You can even have a mortgage, what ever, just don't spend more than you bring in every month it's not loving hard. I can do it at 30k a year, how the gently caress are people unable to do that at 100k+ a year??? Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Apr 23, 2015 |
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Apr 23, 2015 19:41
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Xoidanor posted:No, they're part of the middle class and upper-middle class. Calling anyone who's riches rest in a boom-bust cycle upper-class income which is spent almost entirely on car loans, mortgages and luxury items upper-class is laughable. How can you tie fiscal responsibility to class when you were saying class had everything to do with money? He was on the cusp of financial freedom through wealth but squandered it on truck nuts more or less. Sounds like upper class Alberta to me 
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Apr 23, 2015 19:42
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I would argue that truly being upper-class would entail holding a position similar to the landed gentry of the past, being able to sustain an upper-class lifestyle without work & debt, relying solely on your assets. The upper-middle class perceive themselves as part of the upper class due to having the same toys (cars, boats, McMansions, summer houses) but the difference is that one lifestyle is reliant on debt while the other is reliant on actual wealth.
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Apr 23, 2015 19:46
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Lexicon posted:Did you folks see this one? http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/downturn-pushes-debt-burdened-to-seek-help-with-financial-woes-1.3042860 I too am shocked that a middle aged manual laborer who likely only has a high school diploma did not know how to properly respond to a financial windfall that enabled for him the standard of living that he's been promised by ad execs and consumerist Conservative governments his entire life.
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Apr 23, 2015 20:13
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All these idiots, to whom I am clearly superior, who fell for the lies of the life that has been marketed to them since birth deserve nothing but destitution and a horrible death.
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Apr 23, 2015 20:18
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Xoidanor posted:I would argue that truly being upper-class would entail holding a position similar to the landed gentry of the past, being able to sustain an upper-class lifestyle without work & debt, relying solely on your assets. The upper-middle class perceive themselves as part of the upper class due to having the same toys (cars, boats, McMansions, summer houses) but the difference is that one lifestyle is reliant on debt while the other is reliant on actual wealth. I'd almost argue that the true upper-class doesn't bother themselves with those toys at all. For me, here in Halifax, this is the type of house that represents the upper-class, found in the South End:  Notice how the cars are parked around back? And there's not even a garage in the front. No one gives a poo poo about toys. Maybe they have a yacht parked at the yacht club, though. This house is in a real, walkable neighbourhood. And here's an upper-middle-class house in the burbs of Halifax. Located in a sprawly, bullshit neighbourhood. I picked one with an open garage and a ridiculous SUV on purpose: 
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Apr 23, 2015 20:22
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I don't mean to be critical, but I feel like "don't piss your money into the wind when you have a windfall," is the sort of thing that could be reasoned out from first principles. The finer points of investing and saving for retirement are obviously things that need to be taught/leaned, but I feel like not going into massive debt for consumer products is sort of obvious. The people who do it anyway do it because they want to, in general. The most debt-ridden person I know is well-educated, and has a decent income. He's in a lot of debt because he keeps spending money on unnecessary poo poo, and I'm sure he's perfectly aware of that.
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Apr 23, 2015 20:32
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Uneducated white trash squanders all his cash while making 140k a year and you expect me to sympathize? lol get the gently caress outta here You know what he was probably saying when people were telling him to be careful with his money during his salad days? Flip back a couple pages in this thread where you loving shitheads were bemoaning my rich hating. namaste friends fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Apr 23, 2015 |
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Apr 23, 2015 20:33
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Rick Rickshaw posted:I'd almost argue that the true upper-class doesn't bother themselves with those toys at all. Take a tour of oakville some time they like their toys in their million dollar neighbourhood.
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Apr 23, 2015 20:35
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jm20 posted:Take a tour of oakville some time they like their toys in their million dollar neighbourhood. That still looks like an upper-middle-class McMansion grow-op, full of houses that don't have trees on their property. edit: I want to be clear. I'm not purely mocking these people simply for choosing these neighbourhoods. Obviously not everyone can live in a 100 year old home in the rich part of town due to our formerly growing population. But in the context of this thread, I am certainly going to mock the McMansion-dwelling upper-middle-class for their debt-fuelled life full of every toy imaginable. Especially when the house of cards comes crumbling down and they've put all of the money that they should have had saved into the gas tank of their Escalade. Rick Rickshaw fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Apr 23, 2015 |
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Apr 23, 2015 20:39
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Cultural Imperial posted:Uneducated white trash squanders all his cash while making 140k a year and you expect me to sympathize? lol get the gently caress outta here The problem is that he went into massive debt, not that he was rich. You can be rich without spending beyond your means (in fact, it's actually really, really goddamn easy, if you avoid letting your ego drive your spending choices).
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Apr 23, 2015 20:41
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Rick Rickshaw posted:That still looks like an upper-middle-class McMansion grow-op, full of houses that don't have trees on their property. If that doesn't satiate your rich people buy cars you can always go up to the highest tax brackets
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Apr 23, 2015 20:43
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Our Canadian rodeo clown talking about keeping ego in check. 
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Apr 23, 2015 20:45
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ZShakespeare posted:All these idiots, to whom I am clearly superior, who fell for the lies of the life that has been marketed to them since birth deserve nothing but destitution and a horrible death. Now you're getting in the spirit of the thread!
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Apr 23, 2015 20:49
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Baronjutter posted:We just are not taught any sort of financial responsibility. That's the crux of it. I was raised to be financially responsible, which is really as simple as "don't buy stuff you can't afford". I was taught not to max out my credit card, pay it on time, save up for big purchases, etc. It's basically common sense to me. But then my family is also full of educated university graduates. Maybe it comes with education? e: (I'm well aware it doesn't, graduates can lead terrible debt-ridden lives too.)
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Apr 23, 2015 20:49
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Jan posted:That's the crux of it. I was raised to be financially responsible, which is really as simple as "don't buy stuff you can't afford". I was taught not to max out my credit card, pay it on time, save up for big purchases, etc. It's basically common sense to me. I learned all my financial responsibility from the TV. I have an apple watch for arm arm and each leg.
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Apr 23, 2015 20:51
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Jan posted:That's the crux of it. I was raised to be financially responsible, which is really as simple as "don't buy stuff you can't afford". I was taught not to max out my credit card, pay it on time, save up for big purchases, etc. It's basically common sense to me. Since public schools don't teach both budgeting and finance for reasons that quite frankly are beyond me, yes. You either get taught by your parents or you don't get taught at all. Some might learn from their mistakes in their lifetime but at the time they do its almost certainly going to be to late for any drastic changes.
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Apr 23, 2015 20:52
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I am a tower of intellect and got out from underneath my crippling debt, and if you can't then that's just survival of the fittest baby.
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Apr 23, 2015 20:54
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Nice litespeed Jan  kidding, sweet bike
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Apr 23, 2015 20:55
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Cultural Imperial posted:Our Canadian rodeo clown talking about keeping ego in check. I don't even know what point you're trying to make here.
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Apr 23, 2015 21:01
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ChairMaster posted:Haha what the gently caress, you can pay someone in Mexico literally less than 10% what you pay someone in Canada to do the same job, and supposedly our superior infrastructure and security are going to attract manufacturing jobs? That's loving insane. With Mandatory Minimum Sentencing we can stock our prisons with workers and sell their labour to industry which will undercut Mexico. Vote Conservative. EDIT: 10 pages back? Dang bring back old gbs fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Apr 23, 2015 |
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Apr 23, 2015 21:29
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Apr 23, 2015 21:44
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Cultural Imperial posted:Nice litespeed Jan It might be an overpriced Ti spacebike, but it's an overpriced spacebike I responsibly saved up for.  e: Xoidanor posted:Since public schools don't teach both budgeting and finance for reasons that quite frankly are beyond me, yes. You either get taught by your parents or you don't get taught at all. Some might learn from their mistakes in their lifetime but at the time they do its almost certainly going to be to late for any drastic changes. For a while, we did have something vaguely resembling personal finance in Quebec's secondary curriculum. It was called "Économie Familiale" and covered a wide range of topics like how to plan your weekly groceries and cook your own food without going broke, how to fix basic rends and tears in clothes (my secondary school went even further had us sew a pair of boxer shorts  ), basic budgeting, etc. I think it got taken out because the class curriculum was laughably outdated, but the idea certainly has its merits.e2: Oh, poo poo, here's the actual programme sanctioned by the government back in 1983. Jan fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Apr 23, 2015 |
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Apr 23, 2015 21:59
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I like how the vehicles pictures are ones that pretty much only an idiot would buy 
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Apr 23, 2015 22:05
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Do they still Do CAPP or what ever in schools. It was "career and personal planning" and it was a sort of sex-ed, say no to drugs, work hard in school or you won't get into a good university sort of class. Like the idea wasn't bad, but other than the sex-ed being really good (probably down to the teacher not program) all the career stuff was really really bad and they did gently caress all for personal finances. I think a good program would actually have students over a year manage the fantasy finances of a lifetime, going from working to retirement. You'd learn basic book keeping/budgeting, insurance, debt payments, investing for retirement, living within your means, that sort of poo poo. Or instead of a whole year, have a financial lifetime each semester so kids can learn how they hosed up their previous financial life and build on that. By the last time they should have gotten a basic handle on budgeting and how good compound interest is and how awful debt is.
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Apr 23, 2015 22:18
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Why would you need capp when you have The Word of G-d and the Good News? Pbuh Steven Harper
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Apr 23, 2015 22:31
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Jan posted:For a while, we did have something vaguely resembling personal finance in Quebec's secondary curriculum. It was called "Économie Familiale" and covered a wide range of topics like how to plan your weekly groceries and cook your own food without going broke, how to fix basic rends and tears in clothes (my secondary school went even further had us sew a pair of boxer shorts They still did that at the high school I went to the year before I got to that grade (early 2000s). But what we did have in our last year of high school was "Éducation Économique", which was basically econ 101, starting with supply and demand, elasticity and stuff like that, then moving on to the various types of investments that exist and the relationship between risk and return, and so on and so forth. I'm pretty sure it also included how to make a budget, the various sources of credit and the level of interest usually associated with them, and maybe basic accounting for running something like a convenience store. This was a general class which everyone had to take, with homework exercises and everything. I was always under the impression it was part of the province-wide Quebec curriculum, but I guess not?
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Apr 23, 2015 22:39
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I went through CAPP, but it was just a resume writing class and they failed everyone in the class because no one could list any job experience because we lived in the middle of nowhere where the only job is a pulp mill that mercifully doesn't hire minors.
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Apr 23, 2015 23:00
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