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(crosspost) Someone made a chart on IRC for Skyrim paid mods and how much they made. http://bit.ly/1JFrhwE
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Apr 26, 2015 01:25
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theultimo posted:Only if we outline the deficiency of the flagpole. Right now no one is rising to the top due to excessively low buy-ins . We need core competency to close the loop on the swim team. Let's send the tiger team out to move the needle. I think Valve needs to have some face time with the community through well developped stratcom milestones before offering them an outside the box empowerement strategy as to headlight the need for better mod distribution control through sustainable and robust added-value to generate organic growth... else they need a proper exit strategy. Edit: my former boss used to do this and one day she said the best thing ever: "Let's leverage the VLANs in the cloud". She was mysteriously transfered a few weeks later. EPIC fat guy vids fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Apr 26, 2015 |
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Apr 26, 2015 01:35
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It's like uber, but for mods
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Apr 26, 2015 01:41
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Schrodingers cat posted:
Half my day is corporate speak :/ we just had a meeting to discuss future meetings with an emphasis on using vcc next time.
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Apr 26, 2015 01:43
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GunnerJ posted:So Gopher posted an hour long thing about this. His basic opinions are that the reaction is over the top but it's a bad idea and he wouldn't pay for nearly anything up. I have to say I've lost some respect for Gopher over this. He said a lot that bothered me. This might be disorganized and out of order, but here goes: On the issue of disputes over profits from paid mods made by a group: "Not my problem. It's up to the project lead to divide the funds and it's up to everyone else to make sure they get an agreement". So what happens when the project lead screws everyone over? I suppose they can have contracts, but it will cost money to make the contracts, which will cut into their already meager profits and quite possibly make the whole thing not worth doing. This also leads us back to "why not just form a company and make a whole game" territory. I also thought it was strange for him to suddenly become so impersonal and detached when before this, he was talking about the community and supporting modders and all that, which included several minutes spent berating people who gave Chesko and Isoku poo poo. Several times, he basically said "the market will sort it out". I'm not particularly trusting of that phrase. He sang the praises of Chesko and Isoku for all their contributions, and then completely ignored that both of them stole stuff for use in their paid mods. He read Dark0ne's post about fears of stolen assets and basically said "Meh, that's just part of the overblown drama". No, it's not just overblown drama. It's already happened, and it was your darlings who did it. He didn't address the fears that this will turn modding into a competitive environment rather than a collaborative one, and that the quality of mods would suffer as a result, even though we've already seen that happen with Wet and Cold alone (Isoku had to remove some cloaks and hoods from other peoples' mods and replace them with hastily-made, lower-quality versions). He also didn't address the fears that this will lead to mods being locked down and tied exclusively to Steam, even though that's arguably one of the biggest concerns here. He also didn't address the fact that Valve has explicitly condoned using other peoples' free mods in your paid mods as long as they don't actively stop you. He did a rather patronizing segment where he went on Nexus and said "Oh look! There are mods here! Even some new ones!" It's not an exact parallel, but it reminded me of those people who look out the window in January and say "Oh look, snow! So much for global warming, huh?" This goes back to my earlier point about fears of mod lockdown. Of course they're not going to decimate the mod community right away. The long-term consequences are the real concern. He said "This won't crush the community." - maybe not, but it's already fragmented it and caused problems for the modding ecosystem. He was unaware that refunds come only in Steambux, and when someone told him, he just dismissed it as not being true. He's perfectly okay with the low payout modders get. This one is open to debate, but I personally disagree. He totally glossed over Nexus making donation buttons more visible, and even seemed to mock it a little. Despite this being arguably a better way to support the modders themselves with no corporate middleman. At one point he said "Maybe people will send me copies of paid mods so I can review them!" - Yeah, no potential for conflict of interest there! At another point he said "Maybe if Bethesda make more money from mods, they'll support modders more!" - Yeah, that's putting far too much trust in a corporation. Plus it sounds far too much like trickle down economics to me. This one really got to me: "Wouldn't it be wonderful if Bethesda made more money from mods than they made on the actual game? And as a result, they gave us better mod tools?" - In other words, "Wouldn't it be great if we got the privilege of doing Bethesda's work for them while they took almost all of the profit and certainly all of the credit? And in return, maybe we'd get better tools so we could continue to do their work for them? That would be awesome!" Overall, he seems far too trusting of these companies. I wonder if it has anything to do with recently being invited to visit CD Projekt RED. Praetorian Mage fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Apr 26, 2015 |
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Apr 26, 2015 01:45
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there is no way id watch a 50 minute video about 'anything-gate' or read a post that long
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Apr 26, 2015 01:49
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theultimo posted:Half my day is corporate speak :/ we just had a meeting to discuss future meetings with an emphasis on using vcc next time. I don`t know if you work in IT but it seems that kind of stuff is pervasive to the market and I know a LOT of people who basically pad their days with endless meetings on which they say nothing for 8 hours a day (not saying you do that). It`s hilarious when the CIO then comes to us and goes ''yeah we have to optimize our strategies to avoid waste of time and the like'' when we could probably save on 100+ FTEs if such BS was cut weekly, and that`s just in my BU. EDIT: Wait refunds only come in the form of steam$??? hahahahaa
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Apr 26, 2015 01:49
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Octal posted:(crosspost) Man, for the businesses involved that's chump change. I can't imagine this shitfest is worth it. Also this is probably the best the stuff will ever sell, it'll only taper off from this point on.
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Apr 26, 2015 01:49
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Eonwe posted:there is no way id watch a 50 minute video about 'anything-gate' or read a post that long Someone found a talking gopher or something
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Apr 26, 2015 01:50
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I'd rather grate my dick than listen to Gopher drone on for 20 minutes to one hour about nothing (all of his vids).
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Apr 26, 2015 01:51
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Praetorian Mage posted:He did a rather patronizing segment where he went on Nexus and said "Oh look! There are mods here! Even some new ones!" It's not an exact parallel, but it reminded me of those people who look out the window in January and say "Oh look, snow! So much for global warming, huh?" This goes back to my earlier point about fears of mod lockdown. Of course they're not going to decimate the mod community right away. The long-term consequences are the real concern. This is where I started to realize he was kind of unhinged about this. The other super dumb thing he said was that the fan over-reaction was going to make Bethesda shy away from releasing mod tools for their games in the future because the modding community made itself look crazy and they will see it's not in their interest to do so, like hahaha yes the makers of games where modding is a selling point who view mods as a source of revenue will not release modding tools at all because the fan anger isn't worth it, a whole company operating on the special snowflake artiste modder script, right.
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Apr 26, 2015 01:53
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Dongattack posted:I'd rather grate my dick than listen to Gopher drone on for 20 minutes to one hour about nothing (all of his vids). But he's dumb enough to install all these mods so clearly he must be smart and insightful
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Apr 26, 2015 01:54
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Schrodingers cat posted:I don`t know if you work in IT but it seems that kind of stuff is pervasive to the market and I know a LOT of people who basically pad their days with endless meetings on which they say nothing for 8 hours a day (not saying you do that). Government it, where corporate and beauarcy meet in terrible synergy 
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Apr 26, 2015 01:56
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theultimo posted:Government it, where corporate and beauarcy meet in terrible synergy At least you can use the word properly, unlike a metric ton of people who would likely stumble when asked the definition 
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Apr 26, 2015 01:58
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lmao steam banned people left and right. Jesus.
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Apr 26, 2015 02:01
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Police Automaton posted:Man, for the businesses involved that's chump change. I can't imagine this shitfest is worth it. Also this is probably the best the stuff will ever sell, it'll only taper off from this point on. This is a weird edge case too with established mods and dependencies. For a new game, given two competing UI overhauls where one costs $1.99 and the other is free, I don't see the paid mod standing a chance.
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Apr 26, 2015 02:01
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hampig posted:This is a weird edge case too with established mods and dependencies. For a new game, given two competing UI overhauls where one costs $1.99 and the other is free, I don't see the paid mod standing a chance. Paid will always be given precedent. So if you have a free mod that does the same thing, you're poo poo out of luck as it will never be allowed to compete with something that makes Valve/Bethesda money. Free market at its finest!
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Apr 26, 2015 02:03
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Ddraig posted:Paid will always be given precedent. So if you have a free mod that does the same thing, you're poo poo out of luck as it will never be allowed to compete with something that makes Valve/Bethesda money. Free market at its finest! I think most people just won't bother with buying mods and the only damage this will really do is destroying big mod communities and the long shelf-life of the games attached to them. Mods will probably only be done anymore by the likes of Arthmoor who have literally nothing better to do (he's unemployed) and are perfectly happy with getting the scraps of the game owner's table. If there's really absolutely no way to make mods outside the system of payment, I think most normal people that get into modding otherwise will just not bother with that particular game to begin with. Seeing how badly Valve reacted to the reaction by the players I think they really have no idea of their customer base in that particular regard. Also mod pirating. Lots and lots of mod pirating. Even if there might be mod DRM in the future, you think people won't get around that? Games are still usually cracked within days of release.
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Apr 26, 2015 02:11
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Police Automaton posted:I think most people just won't bother with buying mods and the only damage this will really do is destroying big mod communities and the long shelf-life of the games attached to them. Mods will probably only be done anymore by the likes of Arthmoor who have literally nothing better to do (he's unemployed) and are perfectly happy with getting the scraps of the game owner's table. If there's really absolutely no way to make mods outside the system of payment, I think most normal people that get into modding otherwise will just not bother with that particular game to begin with. Seeing how badly Valve reacted to the reaction by the players I think they really have no idea of their customer base in that particular regard. And don't forget the emergence of crazies like that one Paradox modder who tried to claim that by making a mod ownership of the game engine it was based off of as transferred to him.
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Apr 26, 2015 02:36
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Ddraig posted:Paid will always be given precedent. So if you have a free mod that does the same thing, you're poo poo out of luck as it will never be allowed to compete with something that makes Valve/Bethesda money. Free market at its finest! "Sorry, since my mod is paid and changes werewolf damage, I am issuing a DMCA so you have to take down your mod that also changes werewolf damage."
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Apr 26, 2015 02:38
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i dont think thats going to happen
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Apr 26, 2015 02:45
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Eonwe posted:i dont think thats going to happen The Skyrim modding community has a history of being dumb and petty.
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Apr 26, 2015 02:47
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AfroSquirrel posted:And don't forget the emergence of crazies like that one Paradox modder who tried to claim that by making a mod ownership of the game engine it was based off of as transferred to him.  I need a source on this, because holy loving poo poo you have to be beyond stupid to think this is actually legal.
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Apr 26, 2015 02:48
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Pakled posted:The Skyrim modding community has a history of being dumb and petty. this is more root of the problem than anything else
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Apr 26, 2015 02:48
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Eonwe posted:i dont think thats going to happen Have you ever dealt with DMCAs at all 'cause if you have you know it's easy to fire one off. If you send a DMCA takedown request properly it's taken seriously because that's how the idiotic law was written. On the upside sending a counter-claim back in response is where it always ends, because the next step in a DMCA is an actual lawyer court thing which never happens because lol videogames. Also have you ever dealt with companies before? Capitalism? It's p. hilarious I'd give it a shot
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Apr 26, 2015 02:49
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http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/33uplp/mods_and_steam/ Thread posted by Gabe this evening, and top comment thread is between Gaben and Robin, owner of Nexus. Was actually pretty interesting stuff, if you're interesting in hearing what's up from the horse's mouth.
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Apr 26, 2015 02:50
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AfroSquirrel posted:And don't forget the emergence of crazies like that one Paradox modder who tried to claim that by making a mod ownership of the game engine it was based off of as transferred to him. Close, but not quite: he was contracted to make a game based on the Paradox engine, based on his mod that he had made. Still batshit crazy to say he owned the engine.
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Apr 26, 2015 02:50
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Lol the new SkyUI has already been leaked before it hit the workshop.
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Apr 26, 2015 02:50
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Police Automaton posted:Lol the new SkyUI has already been leaked before it hit the workshop. how does that even happen when the only thing between a modder and putting something up is a computer.
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Apr 26, 2015 02:54
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Scyantific posted:
Ubik. Short version is that he was the lead on a popular mod for Europa Universalis 3, Magna Mundi, although his own contributions to the project were the worst, most annoying parts. Paradox was offering engine licensing agreements to popular modders at the time, and he got one. Was hired to make a full game version of his mod with a handful of other people, called World Stage, and ended up pissing away a ton of money and time only to put out a version so broken that declaring war, one of the most fundamental actions in the game, didn't even work. Paradox pulled the plug. He then put out an unauthorized demo, claimed Paradox was really out to steal his brilliant code, and said he had a claim on Paradox's future games. He later, incidentally, was framed by his family and wrongly committed to an insane asylum, only to eventually be freed and sue his family and the doctors there.
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Apr 26, 2015 02:57
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Apr 26, 2015 02:59
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ETPC posted:how does that even happen when the only thing between a modder and putting something up is a computer. He probably has a bunch of testers that are more or less supportive of the paywall thing.
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Apr 26, 2015 02:59
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ETPC posted:how does that even happen when the only thing between a modder and putting something up is a computer. I assume either a beta tester (if they have any?) or even a Team member who doesn't approve leaked it. You know, in a way this is also great. I always detested how modding went from being a small hobby for people interested in games and game design and people "just screwing around with the engine" to these humongous and partially ridiculous mod projects as something to enlarge your e-peen and have that tiny little chance to make it big and work for one of the big studios. The Nexus amplified that lovely stuff x1000 by doing stuff like banning people who said negative things and that's why it is such a poo poo community. The quality of the Mods didn't really objectively improve because of that attitude either, it just made people who also had the capabilities/time not bother because they didn't want to deal with all that poo poo and leave everything to these hyperspergs like arthmoor. Now there are paid mods and they split the community and the worst of the worst off. Maybe we'll see more of that former modding again where people just do it out of fun. As long as future games let you even do that, that is.
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Apr 26, 2015 03:03
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Cantorsdust posted:wrongly committed to an insane asylum are you sure?
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Apr 26, 2015 03:04
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AfroSquirrel posted:And don't forget the emergence of crazies like that one Paradox modder who tried to claim that by making a mod ownership of the game engine it was based off of as transferred to him. Scyantific posted:
There was a bit more to it than that, he obtained a license to use the engine EU3 was based on in order to make a full new game based on his mod. After years of development and delays, Paradox, who was funding the project, canceled it and the project lead, Ubik, had a full public meltdown. As part of that he claimed the contract he signed entitled him to full ownership of the game engine, and they should be paying HIM royalties for its use. Paradox never actually commented on that but the lawyers he was supposedly talking to about it never filed suit, so... Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Apr 26, 2015 |
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Apr 26, 2015 03:07
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So is gaming dead yet, guys? Also who am I supposed to hate because they didn't say "paying for mods sucks, I hate them"
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Apr 26, 2015 03:26
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 I would be 10x more likely to chuck even a little money to someone who said here's my mod... pay me if you like or not whatever. Didn't Louis CK do something like that with one of his specials?
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Apr 26, 2015 03:32
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Bholder posted:So is gaming dead yet, guys? the only people saying this are the idiot game journos who are running with the "ENTITLED GAMERS" line
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Apr 26, 2015 03:32
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Wait what? I thought some modders said it was impossible to set it to 0$ and there was a minimum of 0.5$ or something.
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Apr 26, 2015 03:33
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Schrodingers cat posted:Wait what? I thought some modders said it was impossible to set it to 0$ and there was a minimum of 0.5$ or something. They said they're going to change it to be like that, not that it is currently like that.
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Apr 26, 2015 03:35
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