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Mercrom posted:This combined with having to remove the previous shell explains the long reload times. If it was only about lifting the shell into the gun I don't see a reason why the tanks in the game wouldn't reload 20kg shells in 6-7 seconds like this guy at least at the start of battles. During WW2, cannons in the in the 75 to 88 mm range usually had semi-automatic sliding breaches, which basically means the empty casing comes shooting out like in your video. The loader only needs to grab the next shell and push it into the empty breach. If the loader has 5 or 6 shells ready to go, the gunner could probably fire about as quickly as he could correct his aim. Once that ready supply is exhausted, however, the firing rate will differ based on how the rest of the ammunition is stored. If you were a loader and your commander suddenly started screaming about a target tank at 100 meters, you and your adrenaline would be heaving those 30 pound shells around pretty quick. Differing reload rates are just a balance mechanism, nothing more.
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Apr 26, 2015 02:24
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Mercrom posted:How do I fly a Spitfire? I feel like I'm being out turned by 190s and I don't really know what I'm doing wrong. What speed and altitude should I be at? Spitfires absolutely own, except that they suck at high level, where poo poo like this can happen:  
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Apr 26, 2015 02:26
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philosoraptor posted:If you were a loader and your commander suddenly started screaming about a target tank at 100 meters, you and your adrenaline would be heaving those 30 pound shells around pretty quick. Differing reload rates are just a balance mechanism, nothing more. Your commander would probably also be screaming for different kinds of rounds meaning more busywork and longer load times, even if you have a select number of rounds prepared. Differing reload rates are more than just a balance mechanism because, even with adrenaline, rounds are different in size and shape and thus must be handled differently. A 37mm round is obviously very different from a 100mm round and so forth. Now, I'm not entirely sure how Gaijin does it, but I remember a group or two of researchers/testers averaging out a time based on familiarity with a given system.
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Apr 26, 2015 02:32
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mlmp08 posted:Spitfires absolutely own, except that they suck at high level, where poo poo like this can happen: Note that in the actual game a German plane landing hits on you will kill you in about 1/20th of the time shown in the gif.
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Apr 26, 2015 02:39
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mlmp08 posted:Spitfires absolutely own, except that they suck at high level, where poo poo like this can happen: That guy is complaining 5 minutes prior to that scene that the Spitfire has the advantage at high alltitude over his FW 190.   You know, after his friend got shot down and he almost died.
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Apr 26, 2015 02:50
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Feindfeuer posted:That guy is complaining 5 minutes prior to that scene that the Spitfire has the advantage at high alltitude over his FW 190. Sometimes you just gotta get serious. 
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Apr 26, 2015 02:56
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Your commander would probably also be screaming for different kinds of rounds meaning more busywork and longer load times, even if you have a select number of rounds prepared. The point is that overall, in reality, there is no linear decrease in firing rate as caliber or weight increase. Much the the time needed to reload is taken up by hearing the order, turning in the seat, aiming the shell at the breach, etc. Moving a greater weight makes these actions more deliberate, but there is no moment in that process where the loader is straining himself in order not to drop what he's carrying or where he has to gather himself to power squat a round from the ready rack to the breach. In fact, most armies tried to keep down the weight of rounds simply so that more rounds could be kept in the tank. Often an armored unit would have to fight without regular supply if they were in a spearhead and in that case the crew is relying on whatever they brought with them.
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Apr 26, 2015 03:28
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There is definitely a linear decrease in firing rate as caliber and/or weight increases. There's a reason why automatic weapons like a Browning M2 has a higher cyclic rate than a 40mm POM-POM. In the tank, the loader still has to perform several different, and distinct, motions which slow down the heavier the carried object is. They may not be huge differences of minutes, but even seconds, or fractions of, matter in any engagement. That's why modern tanks use autoloaders too, to cut down on the loading time it would take a human to do it. Artillery units still have several members just to load/unload because of the weight and straing/fatigue on the gun's crew. Also, Time and Motion study performed on a Tiger by the British. http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=47&p=1934548&t=214369 One should take note of AVERAGE times and the use of 4 different test subjects. Oh, and that 8 rounds from RACK G took around 17.8 seconds PER ROUND to load.
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Apr 26, 2015 04:27
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There is absolutely a difference in loading time as the round mass increases. That Abrams video is misleading if only because the tank is obviously stationary on a firing range and the dude is loading from a round in his lap, not from the ammo storage. Trying to unclamp a 20kg round from its holder in the bowels of the tank, manhandle it into the turret, flipping it around and lining it up with the breech while the tank is in combat and actively moving is a whole other thing. Also note that modern rounds are light, a complete 120mm sabot round is about the same weight as the 88mm in the KT. In fact a complete 120mm sabot with propellant and case and everything is lighter than just the AP projectile for a Soviet 122mm (22kgs for a M829 round versus 25kg for a BR-471 projectile as found in an IS-2).
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Apr 26, 2015 04:34
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The 120mm rounds used by the M1A2's main gun also use combustible cases so there isn't a bunch of large brass cylinders inside of the tank, making things more complicated.
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Apr 26, 2015 04:39
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And lastly, you don't have a hot case that is steaming off gunpowder residue and other nasty chemical poo poo into your fighting compartment. Loaders were known to pass out from the fumes and strain in the 76mm T-34.
Xerxes17 fucked around with this message at 04:50 on Apr 26, 2015 |
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Apr 26, 2015 04:44
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mlmp08 posted:Sometimes you just gotta get serious. *Ahem* 
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Apr 26, 2015 04:59
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Jobbo_Fett posted:
Yes, that is my point. Kafouille posted:That Abrams video is misleading if only because the tank is obviously stationary on a firing range and the dude is loading from a round in his lap, not from the ammo storage. Yes you both make my point clear. What rack you load from (rack G cannot even be accessed by the loader unless the turret is pointed towards 9 o'clock) or whether the tank is going full throttle over rough terrain influence reload time more than weight. And that M1 loader was not holding rounds in his lap: you can see him reach back into the turret bustle and you can hear him sliding shells out. In the King Tiger motion study I see that the first shells loaded from the nearest ready rack are up in about 7 seconds (exactly what you see in that M1 video). Scrolling down a little, I see that rounds grabbed from the Panther's ready racks are loaded in about 6 seconds. Weight of Panther AP round: 7.2 kg Weight of King Tiger AP round: 10.4 kg So 30% more weight only adds one second under initial engagement conditions. Again, reload rates are for balance because it would not be fun if every stationary tank firing one piece rounds could fire three times in 15 seconds...
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Apr 26, 2015 09:17
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Feindfeuer posted:4M GAZ-AAA  This needs all the love.
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Apr 26, 2015 09:28
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mlmp08 posted:Sometimes you just gotta get serious. Where are these all from?
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Apr 26, 2015 09:47
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Nuramor posted:Where are these all from? arcade mode is actually pretty good if you give it a chance.
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Apr 26, 2015 10:07
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Nuramor posted:Where are these all from? An anime called Slipstream in an anthology titled The Cockpit. It's about some Luftwaffe pilot escorting the secret first atomic bomb built by the Germans but being of pure and noble blood he courageously shoots the bomber down to stop the bomb, something those filthy Americans clearly didn't have the guts to do. Cool action but maybe just a little thick on the revisionist fantasy.
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Apr 26, 2015 10:13
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Sard posted:An anime called Slipstream in an anthology titled The Cockpit. It's about some Luftwaffe pilot escorting the secret first atomic bomb built by the Germans but being of pure and noble blood he courageously shoots the bomber down to stop the bomb, something those filthy Americans clearly didn't have the guts to do. Cool action but maybe just a little thick on the revisionist fantasy. Also the bomber is carrying the german nuclear scientist behind it, and his daughter, who happens to the pilots true love (and begs him before the flight to not let them reach their destination) or something. That being said from memory he lets the spitfire shoot it down and then destroys it, as seen in that .gif as revenge. But yeah, definitely not historical.
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Apr 26, 2015 10:22
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Dev is up with the new DM system implemented. No idea how I'll test that out, friendly-fire CDK missions? e: VYa-23 cannons are still boned as of this version Ghosts n Gopniks fucked around with this message at 11:20 on Apr 26, 2015 |
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Apr 26, 2015 11:07
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MrLonghair posted:Dev is up with the new DM system implemented. No idea how I'll test that out, friendly-fire CDK missions? Belly landings. Or have 3 players in a custom mission: 2 start on the same airfield, one in a plane with a turret. The custom missions run on their servers so that should be normal game performance.
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Apr 26, 2015 11:10
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Tank Boy Ken posted:Belly landings. BEST THING EVER e: It's realistic about it, you get repairs when you should be able to, no more 99.9999999999% guaranteed death on bellylanding a non-boat on a strip. No more guaranteed death if your gear won't deploy. I do however think this won't change much for the clowns who just cannot take off though. Ghosts n Gopniks fucked around with this message at 11:49 on Apr 26, 2015 |
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Apr 26, 2015 11:36
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Huh, I think I already managed to do some successful belly landings.
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Apr 26, 2015 11:57
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Pand posted:Huh, I think I already managed to do some successful belly landings. The difference is that they'll all be successful now even if you bust a prop and snap a wing. There are of course lucky people turning into burning flipped over charred fuselages being allowed to repair, had that last night in a match and it was a violent flip.
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Apr 26, 2015 12:01
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So does this mean the Komet and Pizza Slive can finally land safely?
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Apr 26, 2015 12:27
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Michaellaneous posted:
The sound really sold it for me. It's the cutest, little SPAAG. Only downside is that it's probably totaly useless against any kind of tank.
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Apr 26, 2015 12:30
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The Orange Mage posted:So does this mean the Komet and Pizza Slive can finally land safely? They have been able to since a patch or three ago. (Landings with damage will probably be more forgiving now.)
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Apr 26, 2015 12:50
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Why did the T-44 stop moving? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rw9FO-nPJmA Just how oblivious can someone be? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UX8cwXatb24
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Apr 26, 2015 12:51
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Ludicro posted:Why did the T-44 stop moving? Yuri Pavlichenko, Hero of the Soviet Union, died in combat today fighting the Hitlerists. His last words, recieved via radio, will be remebered for all eternity; 'brb, phone'. Ludicro posted:Just how oblivious can someone be? I have no explanation for this one, before his commander dies you can still see him scanning the front and side with his machinegun for a target... I guess some people are just terrible. 
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Apr 26, 2015 13:15
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Most people are bad at video games. Most modern FPS have direction indicators and people still have trouble figuring out from where they are getting shot at. 
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Apr 26, 2015 14:52
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Pand posted:Most people are bad at video games. Most modern FPS have direction indicators and people still have trouble figuring out from where they are getting shot at. If you have a
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Apr 26, 2015 14:59
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Ludicro posted:Why did the T-44 stop moving? I'm pretty sure the T-44 was attempting to back up, not like it mattered because going up the hill had already slowed him down enough for you to catch up to him before he stopped. The second one is probably a bot.
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Apr 26, 2015 15:10
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Todays WW2 event is a shameful demonstration in 16 fine russian planes losing hard to 12 German planes. Get on and spade a 109 or 190. "You have bombers so we're actually outnumbered 3:1", cried a Russian player in one of my rounds.
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Apr 26, 2015 15:31
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To be fair:
P.S. This isn't helped by the ground targets available for attack at the objective (Red to the russian team). EDIT lost 3 times in a row. Tested once how much bombs the target objective needs. Took down an enemy plane in a He111. This makes me better than most players on our team  
Tank Boy Ken fucked around with this message at 16:02 on Apr 26, 2015 |
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Apr 26, 2015 15:38
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I just won that event with the Germans in well under six minutes of total gameplay.
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Apr 26, 2015 15:52
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Astroniomix posted:I'm pretty sure the T-44 was attempting to back up, not like it mattered because going up the hill had already slowed him down enough for you to catch up to him before he stopped. Yeah the T44 notices that you've traversed far enough to lead him and is attempting to reverse direction to throw off your aim.
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Apr 26, 2015 15:52
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Which never works. He should have cut closer and tried to get a clean shot into the side. Tbf the fast traverse is one of the JPs biggest strengths imo.
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Apr 26, 2015 16:07
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Tank Boy Ken posted:EDIT You and I have the most opposite-world luck with events 
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Apr 26, 2015 16:15
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I'm winning a bunch of games in the Russian versus German plane event, as the Russians. Tons of 109s and 190s on the deck getting chewed the gently caress up by La-5s and Yaks.
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Apr 26, 2015 16:17
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MrLonghair posted:You and I have the most opposite-world luck with events Yeah I've been getting hammered as Germans as well in the event. Doesn't help that theres always a thick layer of cloud cover so you end up diving on someone and suddenly the entire team is there to pounce on you. EDIT - Playing is Russians is working out pretty well though. Lord Ludikrous fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Apr 26, 2015 |
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Apr 26, 2015 16:17
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This is an event suited very well to the needs of the La-5FN (read combat below 3.8km altitude). EDIT Winning all events as  now. La-5FN is a plane everyone should have flown at least to  dom.
Tank Boy Ken fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Apr 26, 2015 |
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Apr 26, 2015 16:30
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