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once you're a thousand+ years old i feel like 200 might be the equivalent of a jaunt to the store, all told
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Apr 27, 2015 15:35
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It's still a "sixth" of his life up to that point.
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Apr 27, 2015 15:39
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surc posted:One of the things that makes me love God Complex so much is that I totally didn't watch it as anything approaching a horror story. Yeah, the format of the show read secondarily as horror to me, but primarily it was a Doctor Who "base under siege" story. Enigma is a straightforward application of the Lovecraft "unknowable horror" mechanic. The fact that the Doctor has to figure everything out at the end means it can't/won't do that, so it can never fully commit to that type of story. (Midnight being an exception, and powerful precisely because it was an exception.) As a "base under siege" story, I think it still has significant faults (Toxx's complaints about inadequate characterization of the transient characters is accurate IMO), but it does what I think it's trying to do better than what Toxx thought it was trying to do.
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Apr 27, 2015 16:10
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Yeah I never saw it as trying to be scary so much as just bizarre. It's why the first fear we see is a gorilla, and why The Doctor seeing the monster for the first time is followed immediately by a chase scene complete with wacky music and a Scooby-Doo hallway. I'd say it was certainly meant to be disconcerting, but not horror.
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Apr 27, 2015 16:52
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Mmm. I mean the whole setting was that the system was breaking down and everything. If it had been working, Rita probably would've been a sixteen year old being towered over in her old family home again on a loop. It was just... stuck on 80's hotel and doing the best it could. It was outright stated that the fears weren't at full effectiveness.
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Apr 27, 2015 16:56
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To respond to my "don't like it when the Doctor just leaves" post, the reason I don't like it is because I feel it maybe throws the scale of everything off. It feels like The Doctor On Holiday might take longer than some of his regenerations. Perhaps the correct assumption to believe that each regeneration has really lasted for a millennium or so, but there's nothing in there to make me believe that. In the short term of the revival series, the Doctor consistently calling himself nine hundred years old. Until recent seasons, where it's well over that. Almost all of that additional age has happened in the form of big, big time skips in Eleven's run. It leads to the feeling that his idea of "being away for a bit" outlasts many regenerations. Viewed as a line, Eleven takes up so much of the Doctor's age. But the whole point of Moff's writing is "don't look at time like a linear thing." But even if people put that on hold for the sake of the writing in the show, in a meta context, in the fan community where fanfiction and discussions and conventions and review threads happen, people do look at this stuff like a line.
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Apr 27, 2015 18:41
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It's hip to be square
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Apr 27, 2015 19:09
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yo occ what's your steam ID man, figure this'll make it easier to coordinate monhan also the God Complex is one of my favorites of the season and the guy who wrote it (who also wrote Vampires in Venice and another one from the season after this that I liked very much) is one of my favorite who writers
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Apr 27, 2015 19:25
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Oh Occ, if you have any questions for Rob Shearman, ask them now, I'm meeting him again tomorrow.
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Apr 27, 2015 19:28
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1) who are you rob shearman
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Apr 27, 2015 19:28
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He wrote "Dalek"
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Apr 27, 2015 19:29
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1) who came up with the story concept, was that you or RTD 2) (if it was him) were you concerned about the fact that the first revival-era dalek story would wreck the curve for all subsequent post-revival era dalek stories? the story you wrote was incredible but essentially only works if the daleks never, ever came back; once DW was renewed for a second series the emotional resonance of "Dalek" gets sold out as a matter of course. did this at all influence how you wrote this episode? in other words, did you write this episode completely in a vacuum, removed from the possibility that the show could get renewed? that's it probs? @fungah http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198020133904/
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Apr 27, 2015 19:40
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The answer to #1 is almost assuredly Shearman, as he wrote the audio story "Jubilee", and "Dalek" is a remake/retooling of that story, although it's still possible that Rusty was the one who asked him to retool it.
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Apr 27, 2015 19:44
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The daleks came back later that series though!
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Apr 27, 2015 19:52
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MrL_JaKiri posted:It's still a "sixth" of his life up to that point. yeah guess that's true :/
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Apr 27, 2015 19:57
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MrL_JaKiri posted:The daleks came back later that series though! nerd spotted
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Apr 27, 2015 19:59
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Toxxupation posted:nerd spotted Mathematical genius, thanking you (according to the avatar at least)
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Apr 27, 2015 20:01
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Mathematical genius, thanking you (according to the avatar at least) there's more bloomin' onion than bloomin' genius about you, JaKiri.
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Apr 27, 2015 20:04
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forbidden lesbian posted:yeah guess that's true :/ Yeah it's not that he spent X amount of years away doing whatever- that's fine for some one like the Doctor. Ten did it and I had no complaints- it worked. It's that he spent two centuries away. That's a hell of a long time, even for the Doctor.
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Apr 27, 2015 22:28
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MrL_JaKiri posted:The daleks came back later that series though! I don't know if I want to count human hybrid daleks as real daleks.
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Apr 27, 2015 22:31
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kant posted:I don't know if I want to count human hybrid daleks as real daleks. The entire human/dalek hybrid thing is just the worst thing to ever happen
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Apr 27, 2015 23:31
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I feel like this is topical to this thread (really the internet but...) http://www.theonion.com/articles/ma...%3ANA%3AInFocus
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Apr 28, 2015 00:30
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Burkion posted:I can't speak for him, for obvious reasons, but the reason why it annoys me is that it feels super arbitrary and excessive. I always thought of Eleven's personality as largely him putting on a face and pretending nothing bad ever happened to him. Lalalalalalala--Time war? What Time war? So it makes sense to me that he'd have no problem slipping back to acting exactly the same. He's effectively faking a smile, so it looks the same every time he fakes it.
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Apr 28, 2015 01:52
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Burkion posted:Even for the Doctor, who we've often seen change over a relatively short time. Yet 11 pretty much walks into one of those rotating doors and by the time it brings him back in, he says he's been gone for centuries. It rings hollow.
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Apr 28, 2015 02:00
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Doctor Spaceman posted:We've also seen long periods without much change. Three and Four don't change that much over their (quite lengthy) tenures. Three actually didn't stick around that long in universe, just because we got to see most of his stuff linearly. For the most part he was stuck on Earth. And he did change a fair bit- though that was mostly just softening of his character into a more kind, forgiving man. Four just got really tired. But then so did Tom!
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Apr 28, 2015 02:03
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Burkion posted:Three actually didn't stick around that long in universe, just because we got to see most of his stuff linearly. For the most part he was stuck on Earth. It really wouldn't surpise me if the reason he's (nominally) 900 at the start of the revival is because it's the 9th Doctor.
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Apr 28, 2015 02:24
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It just doesn't feel right that he gallivanted around seeing the wonders of the universe for 200 years and he never met anyone more important or worth remembering in all that time than Amy and Rory. And it's such a weird figure, like 5 years would be plenty for the whole Doctor Running From His Destiny thing they're trying to convey. When in doubt go for things the human mind can actually conceive of. Not that it matters, because you can't outrun destiny, and the Doctor's destiny is Lake Silencio, no matter what unrealistic length of time he spends pottering about.
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Apr 28, 2015 03:44
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He's making up the 200 years he's been gone just like he makes up his age. He was probably gone for a couple of months, or for a thousand years, and just forgot to bring a watch.
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Apr 28, 2015 04:19
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Bicyclops posted:He's making up the 200 years he's been gone just like he makes up his age. He was probably gone for a couple of months, or for a thousand years, and just forgot to bring a watch. Two days, on a very quick planet.
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Apr 28, 2015 04:35
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The noble Doctor is just trying to regain seniority over Certified Old Man Rory.
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Apr 28, 2015 08:19
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Doctor Spaceman posted:His age is always going to be a bit bullshitty (because continuity in those days was whatever the writers remembered and cared about) but it goes from something like 450 in the middle of Two to ~750 at the end of Three; someone in there had a decent run. Romana says he's 750-something in The Ribos Operation, and she's presumably basing that on Time Lord records. But that'd mean that 5-10, including the Time War, lived a combined 150 years, so who the gently caress knows?
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Apr 28, 2015 10:40
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I think it's just safe to presume nobody (including the Doctor) has any idea how old he actually is anymore, and he just throws out large sounding numbers and shrugs because who really cares anyway v v
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Apr 28, 2015 11:08
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Jerusalem posted:I think it's just safe to presume nobody (including the Doctor) has any idea how old he actually is anymore, and he just throws out large sounding numbers and shrugs because who really cares anyway v Yeah, especially pre-revival it's a bit silly. My main point was that regardless of specifics there have been previous versions that have lived for hundreds of years without much change.
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Apr 28, 2015 11:20
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On the other hand, there were Doctors who didn't have any breaks between companions and so who seemingly got through their entire life in just a couple of years. Of course a creative writer for an audio drama could say that the Doctor dropped his companion off on a planet for a couple of days and went off and had lots of other adventures on their own or with some other companion. (Dunno if that has ever been a thing in the audio dramas.) But the on-screen evidence is that the Doctor is pretty careless with his lives. Some versions of the Doctor manage to last several hundred years before he gets himself killed (and we only see a fraction of those adventures)... while other times he has burned through 2 or 3 regenerations in a decade.
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Apr 28, 2015 11:40
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your evil twin posted:But the on-screen evidence is that the Doctor is pretty careless with his lives. Some versions of the Doctor manage to last several hundred years before he gets himself killed (and we only see a fraction of those adventures)... while other times he has burned through 2 or 3 regenerations in a decade. 9 and 10 at least have the excuse that they were depressed about what happened in the time war. Filled with regret and with nothing to live for they played fast and loose with their lives. He was so lonely he got way too close to Rose -- clearly his judgement was significantly impaired. 
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Apr 28, 2015 14:11
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Doctor Spaceman posted:My main point was that regardless of specifics there have been previous versions that have lived for hundreds of years without much change. your evil twin posted:On the other hand, there were Doctors who didn't have any breaks between companions and so who seemingly got through their entire life in just a couple of years. I can't tell if this is what you guys are saying, but it totally makes sense that different regenerations would live for different lengths of time, because they have different personalities and tackle situations in their lives differently. your evil twin posted:Of course a creative writer for an audio drama could say that the Doctor dropped his companion off on a planet for a couple of days and went off and had lots of other adventures on their own or with some other companion. (Dunno if that has ever been a thing in the audio dramas.) The central conceit of the audio dramas is that they take place between shows/episodes so as to minimize stepping on TV plots, so yeah basically that's what happens in the audios, although they do get old companions on and tell new stories with them involved as well quite often. On TV, we're also told that Eleven also dips out for River's birthdays or whatever (Good man goes to war), so it doesn't seem unreasonable to expect him to do it other times. 
surc fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Apr 28, 2015 |
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Apr 28, 2015 14:58
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One of the only complaints I have about the audios is that it actually kind of robs some of the TV moments of their poignancy. The great thing about Five's regeneration, for instance, is that he's sacrificing himself to save a companion he barely knows, but as of the audio stories, he's been traveling with her for a very long time. Part of what I like about Nine is that he has a very brief life, traveling with Rose for awhile, sort of regains his faith in humanity (and in himself). I'm sure the audio dramas, if they somehow got the rights, would have new companions for Eccleston. That Eleven lives for longer (and long enough that he clearly just makes up numbers about how long he's been traveling) works for his Doctor. He's the one that is a bit more done feeling horrible about the Time War and just wants to enjoy the latest fez, getting the most out of every hat he happens upon.
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Apr 28, 2015 15:21
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surc posted:On TV, we're also told that Eleven also dips out for River's birthdays or whatever (Good man goes to war), so it doesn't seem unreasonable to expect him to do it other times. And according to the minisodes I believe they show he doesn't even have to drop them off. He just goes out to party when they are sleeping.
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Apr 28, 2015 21:02
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Trojan Kaiju posted:And according to the minisodes I believe they show he doesn't even have to drop them off. He just goes out to party when they are sleeping. I love in The Doctor's Wife when he's telling them where to find their bedroom (he can't understand why they don't want bunk beds  ) Rory pauses for a moment to ask the Doctor if HE has a bedroom, and the question goes completely unanswered.
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Apr 28, 2015 22:44
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surc posted:I can't tell if this is what you guys are saying, but it totally makes sense that different regenerations would live for different lengths of time, because they have different personalities and tackle situations in their lives differently.
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Apr 28, 2015 23:38
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