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The Warszawa posted:Yeah, it's a bit weird to see the "right-wing conspiracy" line invoked to describe questions raised by Chait and Sirota, who (while hardly flawless journalists) are not exactly frothing right-wingers or even anti-Clintonite. Except those questions weren't raised by them, they originated with the "Clinton Cash" guy. Other news outlets reported on this same issue a few days ago.
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Apr 28, 2015 18:57
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I would pay 150K to end the "Obama was a relative nobody in 2008" meme. He had been gearing up for it since 2004.
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Apr 28, 2015 18:58
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Mr Jaunts posted:Except those questions weren't raised by them, they originated with the "Clinton Cash" guy. Other news outlets reported on this same issue a few days ago. Right, but the fact that it's proliferated beyond that - rightly or wrongly - lends it credibility.
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Apr 28, 2015 19:00
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Zelder posted:I would pay 150K to end the "Obama was a relative nobody in 2008" meme. He had been gearing up for it since 2004. Anyone who says Obama was a nobody in 2008 was either a literal child and uninterested in the 2004 DNC or had other reasons to be unaware of the party convention that year. Only a goddamn idiot would see that speech and not know he was a hell of a rising star.
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Apr 28, 2015 19:02
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The Warszawa posted:Right, but the fact that it's proliferated beyond that - rightly or wrongly - lends it credibility. Right, the media is reporting on it because it has the appearance of credibility. And why does it have that appearance of credibility? Because the media has been reporting on it so often. See? Makes perfect sense.
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Apr 28, 2015 19:09
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Dead Gay Romans posted:I don't know why everyone is so convinced Hillary will get the nomination. In the 08 primaries her victory was touted as just as inevitable and well, she got blown out of the water by a relative nobody. This has been said before, but as time goes on, notions of Hillary's '08 inevitability and Obama's "nobody" status at the time just get more and more exaggerated. Like, yeah, it wasn't just a whatever occurrence, it was a Big Deal. But Obama had been a rising star for the Dems for a while by that point, and he was very well situated within the party to mount the opposition he did and be supported in doing so. That's without even going in to how excellent the Obama campaign was organizationally and the caliber of a campaigner that Obama is. Hillary was also nowhere near the shoe-in that people seem to remember her being, though the narrative definitely had her as the biggest shark in the pond. There is no other candidate on the Democratic side, currently declared or otherwise, with the opportunities or ability to pull an Obama in this cycle. Even if Warren were to suddenly change her mind, she would not be an Obama 2.0. I also don't buy how Hillary is a weaker candidate this go around. Yeah she's much older, but she has even more experience than she did in '08, being Secretary of State isn't exactly anything to sneeze at, and she's evolved and kept up with how the Democratic Party has changed for the most part. One would also assume that she would have learned the lessons of the '08 primary season and how the Obama apparatus runs a campaign. In the general, she'll also presumably have that apparatus and the man himself in her corner. Never count out the Dems ability to gently caress things up, but I would say Hillary is way better positioned than she was 7 years ago.
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Apr 28, 2015 19:13
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Dead Gay Romans posted:I don't know why everyone is so convinced Hillary will get the nomination. In the 08 primaries her victory was touted as just as inevitable and well, she got blown out of the water by a relative nobody. Who are the alternatives? The only two people that really have any support from the base are Elizabeth Warren is clearly not running and Bernie Sanders who isn't even a Democrat.
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Apr 28, 2015 19:16
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Kor posted:There is no other candidate on the Democratic side, currently declared or otherwise, with the opportunities or ability to pull an Obama in this cycle. Even if Warren were to suddenly change her mind, she would not be an Obama 2.0. Warren could have been Obama 2.0 if she was more charismatic and if she'd been making moves to run, but she's not and she hasn't so I agree that she isn't.
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Apr 28, 2015 19:17
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Dead Gay Romans posted:I don't know why everyone is so convinced Hillary will get the nomination. In the 08 primaries her victory was touted as just as inevitable and well, she got blown out of the water by a relative nobody. If anything, she has become a weaker candidate since then. Personally I don't think she'll win the nomination, and that would be a pretty good thing for the Dems tbh. good troll post, 10/10
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Apr 28, 2015 19:22
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I like that Edwards' '08 campaign has completely gone down the memory hole.
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Apr 28, 2015 19:25
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whydirt posted:I like that Edwards' '08 campaign has completely gone down the memory hole. Oh, I remember. Man, the Dems really dodged a bullet there.
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Apr 28, 2015 19:27
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In non-Hillary related news, our favorite toy phone-lookalike has some thoughts on the Baltimore situation:quote:Presidential candidate Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) weighed in on the turmoil in Baltimore on Tuesday, standing with police and blaming the violence on a lack of morals in America. But don't worry, he also clarified: quote:"this isn't just a racial thing." 
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Apr 28, 2015 19:30
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DaveWoo posted:And if you unquestioningly believe every single accusation flung at the Clintons by the GOP and the media, I've got a bridge formerly owned by Vince Foster I'd like to sell you. I don't think it's necessary to believe every single accusation, just apply a reasonable smoke test to all the events as a whole. Also, factor in previous behavior, that these people huge liars, etc.
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Apr 28, 2015 19:33
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quote:"There are so many things we can talk about," the senator said, "the breakdown of the family structure, the lack of fathers, the lack of a moral code in our society."
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Apr 28, 2015 19:35
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DaveWoo posted:Oh, I remember. Man, the Dems really dodged a bullet there. Oh god, if he'd got the nomination we'd have gotten at least 4 years of President McCain.
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Apr 28, 2015 19:36
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Mr Jaunts posted:In non-Hillary related news, our favorite toy phone-lookalike has some thoughts on the Baltimore situation: Something, something, whose son was in a DUI recently? Where was the father?
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Apr 28, 2015 19:36
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TheDisreputableDog posted:I don't think it's necessary to believe every single accusation, just apply a reasonable smoke test to all the events as a whole. I don't think I'm going to call Bill Clinton a "huge liar" because he fibbed about getting a blowjob from Monica Lewinsky, and until I see concrete evidence that Hillary actually lied about something, I'm going to go ahead and give her the benefit of the doubt, especially considering where the vast majority of the accusations have come from. I don't think Hillary Clinton is a saint, but people have been treating her ambition like poison ever since she became First Lady, as though wanting to be President somehow made you unsuitable for the job. Rand Paul, after whitesplaining the breakdown of the family unit posted:it isn't just a racial thing It seriously reads like the mother of all afterthoughts. Like "Oh, poo poo, I just went on a nakedly racist tirade about how all black fathers are deadbeats, better throw in an 'I'm not racist!'" Fritz Coldcockin fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Apr 28, 2015 |
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Apr 28, 2015 19:38
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Mr Jaunts posted:
Well, that sure sets my mind at ease.
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Apr 28, 2015 19:39
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Alter Ego posted:I don't think I'm going to call Bill Clinton a "huge liar" because he fibbed about getting a blowjob from Monica Lewinsky, and until I see concrete evidence that Hillary actually lied about something, I'm going to go ahead and give her the benefit of the doubt, especially considering where the vast majority of the accusations have come from. Perjury is a "fib". Claiming she used a personal email sever to avoid using multiple devices even though she routinely did isn't really a lie. I guess I'd agree that they lie so routinely about so many things that their subjective reality is whatever they said most recently, but to the objective observer they're still huge liars.
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Apr 28, 2015 19:46
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TheDisreputableDog posted:Perjury is a "fib". Career politicians sometimes tell untruths; news at 11.
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Apr 28, 2015 19:49
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Kor posted:Career politicians sometimes tell untruths; news at 11. I'm responding to someone who said there's no evidence Hillary lied and should therefore be given the benefit of the doubt.
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Apr 28, 2015 19:51
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TheDisreputableDog posted:Perjury is a "fib". Your example of being a "huge liar" is using an iPad? I'm getting flashbacks to that one guy who earnestly believed that Obama didn't really love his wife or his family, and only used them as political props to satisfy his ambitions. Seriously, if you are going to make such sweeping statements about their personalities you're going to have to do a lot better than that.
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Apr 28, 2015 19:53
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TheDisreputableDog posted:I'm responding to someone who said there's no evidence Hillary lied and should therefore be given the benefit of the doubt. I'm saying your counter-argument is not particularly compelling, and your views on the Clintons come off as almost hysterical given what's considered normal in politics.
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Apr 28, 2015 19:54
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Kor posted:This has been said before, but as time goes on, notions of Hillary's '08 inevitability and Obama's "nobody" status at the time just get more and more exaggerated. Like, yeah, it wasn't just a whatever occurrence, it was a Big Deal. But Obama had been a rising star for the Dems for a while by that point, and he was very well situated within the party to mount the opposition he did and be supported in doing so. That's without even going in to how excellent the Obama campaign was organizationally and the caliber of a campaigner that Obama is. Hillary was also nowhere near the shoe-in that people seem to remember her being, though the narrative definitely had her as the biggest shark in the pond. Julian Castro? His VP can be his brother. Castro/Castro '16
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Apr 28, 2015 19:56
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Alter Ego posted:I'm going to go ahead and give her the benefit of the doubt, especially considering where the vast majority of the accusations have come from. 
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Apr 28, 2015 19:57
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Evil Fluffy posted:Julian Castro? I remember people here talking about Julian being prepped to be Hillary's VP pick, but since he got tapped for HUD I haven't heard much about him. Is there anything really to that?
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Apr 28, 2015 20:00
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Mr Jaunts posted:In non-Hillary related news, our favorite toy phone-lookalike has some thoughts on the Baltimore situation: "it isn't just a racial thing" means "it's a racial thing, but it's also something else" so 
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Apr 28, 2015 20:14
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If Hillary hadn't decided to run, who do you guys think we would be looking at for Dem frontrunners now? I wonder if Jerry brown would have made a run, he was pretty interested in the presidency back in the day, wasn't he?
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Apr 28, 2015 20:21
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Evil Fluffy posted:Julian Castro? I'm pretty stoked for either Castro, but I think this cycle would be way too early for any kind of realistic or competitive campaign from them. I still wouldn't be surprised if Julian got the VP nod.
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Apr 28, 2015 20:21
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eternalname posted:If Hillary hadn't decided to run, who do you guys think we would be looking at for Dem frontrunners now? Brown hinted at a run this year, and he'd probably be in if Hillary wasn't. The Democratic field would look a lot like the Republican one does now with a bunch of candidates trying to determine how much support they'll get in the primary. Biden, Brown, Cuomo, Gillibrand, Webb, Schweitzer, Klobuchar, Beshear, Bennet, Warner, Patrick. There's probably a few I'm forgetting too.
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Apr 28, 2015 20:27
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Joementum posted:Brown hinted at a run this year, and he'd probably be in if Hillary wasn't. The Democratic field would look a lot like the Republican one does now with a bunch of candidates trying to determine how much support they'll get in the primary. No way Beshear would have even attempted a run with Obergefell pending.
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Apr 28, 2015 20:28
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She basically secured the sympathy of the nation with Republican attempts to paint her into a corner, and she fought back out of it. Will she similarly be able to fight her way out of a Dem primary? That's to be seen, but her money advantage will stay overwhelming. I don't see Booker coming from the left field able to out-raise--out-spend her. And he is literally the only person I could see emerging in the next few months. Bernie throwing himself out of the simmer pan and into the fryer. He cannot ignore social & cultural issues in order to convince people of the economic arguments, although I know they will be pleasant to listen to. Nonsense fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Apr 28, 2015 |
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Apr 28, 2015 20:29
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eternalname posted:If Hillary hadn't decided to run, who do you guys think we would be looking at for Dem frontrunners now? I don't think he'd be a frontrunner, but I'd bet anything that Cuomo would be running if Hillary for some bizarre reason was not.
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Apr 28, 2015 20:30
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The Warszawa posted:No way Beshear would have even attempted a run with Obergefell pending. It's an issue where politicians have shown ease at changing their position when necessary. Mitt Romney even changed his mind several times!
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Apr 28, 2015 20:31
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Joementum posted:It's an issue where politicians have shown ease at changing their position when necessary. Mitt Romney even changed his mind several times! Given the brief that Kentucky filed this year? I don't think that turnaround would have been viable.
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Apr 28, 2015 20:33
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Whoops, double post.
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Apr 28, 2015 20:33
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I hope theres a future for Patrick. He did a good job and he's a good guy in person.
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Apr 28, 2015 20:38
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Nonsense posted:She basically secured the sympathy of the nation with Republican attempts to paint her into a corner, and she fought back out of it. I'm not sure how true this is. Really I know a number of conservatives who still think there's some weight to the accusations, and I don't know many liberals who have 'sympathy' for her ability to fight out of the corner. I don't think I know anyone who has sympathy for Clinton, in general she's at-best regarded as the only semi-sane choice.
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Apr 28, 2015 20:40
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Atoramos posted:I'm not sure how true this is. Really I know a number of conservatives who still think there's some weight to the accusations, and I don't know many liberals who have 'sympathy' for her ability to fight out of the corner. I don't think I know anyone who has sympathy for Clinton, in general she's at-best regarded as the only semi-sane choice. This is off the mark, because she is the overwhelming favorite, and it isn't just name-recognition, she has been pummeled, and the Obama administration pummeled with trumped up scandals. She's a fighter. Now she's perfectly free to gently caress all that up and claim she was dodging gun fire on the way to her hearings, however.
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Apr 28, 2015 20:42
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Liberty Counsel is going to be giving an oath to all GOP candidates to take to state that they will disobey the SCOTUS if the court legalizes gay marriage Huckabee and Santorum have signed so far https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfivL74C0C8
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Apr 28, 2015 20:44
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