|
Alasyre posted:I assume SkyUI 5.0 isn't There's a leaked patch out there for it.
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 13:25
|
|
now since they can't sell it, so is the leaked one worthless? It crashes when I try to open my map. Did the creator say what the future of the update would be?
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 18:18 |
|
|
Red Mundus posted:You can get it from Thank you, I won't get a chance to test it until later, but I'll let you know.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 13:26
|
|
|
Skyrim Mod Combiner is really awesome, the guy that curates it does great work. I use it for a "no headaches" graphic overhaul. You can even merge the majority of the ESP files into one giant one. Also I like Ultimate Combat for combat overhauls, it is the most Dark Souly overhaul I've found. The guy also does a Ultimate Dragon mod that I think can be used along side Deadly Dragons, if thats your thing.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 13:30
|
|
|
Is Skyrim Mod Combiner the updated version of that big texture combiner that was abandoned after always being a few versions back? If so, is SMC kept relatively up-to-date?
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 13:38
|
|
|
Ernie Muppari posted:I wish I could find that analysis, it was amazing. https://sites.google.com/site/grimyskyrim/mod-critiques/duel
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 14:28
|
|
|
Things that can cause problems: Buying Dragonborn, installing the dragonborn unoffical patch, not realising that Dragonborn is not actually activated for some reason by default. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 14:32
|
|
|
Ynglaur posted:Is Skyrim Mod Combiner the updated version of that big texture combiner that was abandoned after always being a few versions back? If so, is SMC kept relatively up-to-date? Yeah https://bitbucket.org/drigger/smc/overview It self updates and you can keep it updated relatively easily. A full install pushes 20+ GB though. You can also have it optimize the output which is really nice, extract BSAs, etc. Some of the mods aren't publicly available but I have copies I've been able to track down if anyone needs them. I've been keeping my SMC updated for the past year or so.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 14:39
|
|
|
There's nothing wrong with premium mods in theory. They encourage publishers/developers to release more modifiable games, which leads to more people becoming interested in modding, which leads to more people getting involved in game development, which leads to more interesting/creative projects emerging from the industry, etc. Valve simply hosed up by putting theory into practice within a modding community that's built a huge yet fragile web of tens of thousands of interdependent mods. Give people the opportunity to start putting things behind a paywall and the whole thing collapses. The way they should have done it was develop their own highly modifiable game and make that the testbed for premium modding, essentially building a new modding community from scratch, albeit with its foundations firmly planted in a premium base. As for the modder/publisher/distributor split -- the fact of the matter is that all three of those parties need a slice of the pie because they can't exist without one another. I think the 25/75(50/50) split was fine. The book and music publishing industries pay their authors and artists far less than 25% royalties, although to be fair that is counterbalanced by an advance against projected sales in many cases. A 30/40/30 split would have perhaps been more interesting sweet spot that only makes a subtle difference to what each party gets but doesn't automatically scream "gently caress you" to the modder. Back to the drawing board, Valve.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 15:01
|
|
|
Sonance posted:As for the modder/publisher/distributor split -- the fact of the matter is that all three of those parties need a slice of the pie because they can't exist without one another. I think the 25/75(50/50) split was fine. The book and music publishing industries pay their authors and artists far less than 25% royalties, although to be fair that is counterbalanced by an advance against projected sales in many cases. A 30/40/30 split would have perhaps been more interesting sweet spot that only makes a subtle difference to what each party gets but doesn't automatically scream "gently caress you" to the modder. Books and music don't require tech support. Skyrim mods, as a purchased commodity, do. Beth and Valve put 100% of the burden of dealing with that on the mod author while taking 75% of the money. I read somewhere in one of these threads that the app developers for iOS get a 70/30 split. That seems like the more apt comparison.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 15:07
|
|
|
GunnerJ posted:Books and music don't require tech support. Skyrim mods, as a purchased commodity, do. Beth and Valve put 100% of the burden of dealing with that on the mod author while taking 75% of the money. That would be worth more if Valve/Bethesda actually provided any tech support or customer protections.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 15:11
|
|
|
GunnerJ posted:Books and music don't require tech support. Skyrim mods, as a purchased commodity, do. Beth and Valve put 100% of the burden of dealing with that on the mod author while taking 75% of the money. No, the iOS comparison is analogous to putting your own game on Steam, where the split is also 70/30. An apt comparison is making a modified version of Angry Birds with Rovio's approval. In that case then yeah Rovio is going to want a cut too.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 15:13
|
|
|
CJ posted:No, the iOS comparison is analogous to putting your own game on Steam, where the split is also 70/30. An apt comparison is making a modified version of Angry Birds with Rovio's approval. In that case then yeah Rovio is going to want a cut too. That's cool, but doesn't actually address the issue of responsibility for tech support and QA. It's not the cut I'm objecting to, it's the assignment of responsibility combined with that cut.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 15:15
|
|
|
sebmojo posted:I must finish up the main quest sometime; is there an accepted best combat overhaul to bring it a bit closer to something like dark souls? try TK dodge, it binds a directional dodge with invincibility frames to the sprint key + direction. it's not perfect, but it's a step towards making combat have more options. making you rely on those options depends on a difficulty mod I suppose
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 15:27
|
|
|
GunnerJ posted:That's cool, but doesn't actually address the issue of responsibility for tech support and QA. It's not the cut I'm objecting to, it's the assignment of responsibility combined with that cut. Well in that hypothetical scenario i think the third party developer would still probably the one doing the QA. But i think that if people are in it for the money and they decide that the cut wasn't worth it then they just wouldn't make Skyrim mods. If they were in it for the passion and love of the game they could choose to continue giving away the game for free. In that scenario Bethesda would have to raise the modder's share if they wanted people to make paid mods and collect money. The lack of any consumer protection or QA is the main problem i had with it, because Valve's answer seems to have been to offer none, apparently on Bethesda's insistence. That's not really tied to the modder's cut though from my perspective.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 15:29
|
|
|
CJ posted:Well in that hypothetical scenario i think the third party developer would still probably the one doing the QA. But i think that if people are in it for the money and they decide that the cut wasn't worth it then they just wouldn't make Skyrim mods. Yes, that's part of the problem. Chesko correctly predicted that this cut would encourage low-effort small changes. Anything more than that isn't worth the hassle of testing, bug fixing, and dealing with customer support. For a lot of potential prospective end users (myself included) I think that was a factor in deciding whether a mod is worth buying: how much actual competent support will I get when it fucks up after the 24 hour period? Is anyone assuring quality? Incidentally, the paid mods with the most subscribers were those that just added a piece of equipment, working somewhat like the small cosmetic stuff that DOTA and TF2 have for sale, which is why that split makes more sense there. This point is extremely relevant to the idea that money payments will incentivize better and more interesting mods. 25% of the money with 100% of the headaches doesn't. quote:If they were in it for the passion and love of the game they could choose to continue giving away the game for free. In that scenario Bethesda would have to raise the modder's share if they wanted people to make paid mods and collect money. The lack of any consumer protection or QA is the main problem i had with it, because Valve's answer seems to have been to offer none, apparently on Bethesda's insistence. That's not really tied to the modder's cut though from my perspective. But you just described the tie to the modder's cut: the perception of whether doing a more complicated and interesting mod than something on the scale of a hat in TF2 is worth only 25% given the headaches of customer support you'd be ethically responsible for.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 15:37
|
|
|
Ultimately, the tech support is going to have to be handled by the end user. There are something like 40,000 mods on the Nexus for Skyrim and I don't even want to know how many of them are out of date, works in progress that were abandoned, conflict with popular mods, or just flat out don't work as intended. I didn't mind Valve getting a cut out of this because they actually were actually hosting, advertising, and handling payments. Bethesda was just counting money and they never really intended for mods to be a revenue source, and that was a gigantic gaping problem. I'm hoping that when they try this out in the future, there is something like a two step process for mods to become monetized. First being something like a community vote/approval and the second being Bethesda looking things over and making sure it meets some minimum standard(like items being semi-appropriately valued, areas being somewhat finished and polished, having the appropriate textures/models, not blatantly violating any copyright, and so on). Then again, I also am hoping that they don't do something stupid and leave bug fixes, UI oversights, script extenders, and mod managing to the community if they do this. Things like SkyUI is a great mod, but only because Bethesda dropped the loving ball and didn't make a proper UI for the PC. I mean, paid mods can be a great thing for their games, but if people are just going to throw in some weapon that was slightly modified from another game and charge a buck or something for it, then it is going to suck.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 15:40
|
|
|
Or just give us a tip button to drop a few bux into the Steam Wallet of the modder. So elegant and simple.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 16:04
|
|
|
GunnerJ posted:Yes, that's part of the problem. Chesko correctly predicted that this cut would encourage low-effort small changes. Anything more than that isn't worth the hassle of testing, bug fixing, and dealing with customer support. For a lot of potential prospective end users (myself included) I think that was a factor in deciding whether a mod is worth buying: how much actual competent support will I get when it fucks up after the 24 hour period? Is anyone assuring quality? Incidentally, the paid mods with the most subscribers were those that just added a piece of equipment, working somewhat like the small cosmetic stuff that DOTA and TF2 have for sale, which is why that split makes more sense there. Yeah i agree. If someone hypothetically was going to make a new continent with new quests and items and stuff then i think they deserve more than 25% and i would hope Bethesda would be open to negotiating the rate in that case. Because looking at it i don't think anyone would take the current deal for that amount of work. But i don't think the work to payoff ratio is that bad for the people who modelled a set of armour that you had to acquire through the console. Personally i don't really understand why there are thousands of people who wanted to buy a set of armour in a single player game but apparently there are so whatever. I hope that when they decide to revisit this it's for a game that's designed with the system in mind, so they can come up with some solution with the compatibility and support issues. This always looks like a test run for an old game so they could get data and improve it for next time, like when they tested the hat market on TF2 in preparation for Dota.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 16:12
|
|
|
CJ posted:Yeah i agree. If someone hypothetically was going to make a new continent with new quests and items and stuff then i think they deserve more than 25% and i would hope Bethesda would be open to negotiating the rate in that case. Because looking at it i don't think anyone would take the current deal for that amount of work. But i don't think the work to payoff ratio is that bad for the people who modelled a set of armour that you had to acquire through the console. Personally i don't really understand why there are thousands of people who wanted to buy a set of armour in a single player game but apparently there are so whatever. I'm not even really counting those as real mods, but that price cut absolutely makes sense for that kind of thing. Something else to consider is, what were the "complex" mods added to the workshop? There was apparently a really bad town mod, and "Purity" is not something I had heard of before. But Midas Magic, iNeeds, Wet and Cold, were all mods that have existed a while and had a lot of community-driven QA and testing. And hey, you want to make some money off the work you already put into these mods, I understand. But it's not exactly a startling new innovation driven by profit motive, because the authors didn't have any expectation of transactional remuneration when they made them. "25% is better than nothing" makes perfect sense for something you already polished anyway. The primary market for old complex mods with a price tag slapped on are "new business," I guess, people not all that into modding or who hadn't considered it and so don't know the options, the history, etc. Which is probably a reason why the backlash to this whole thing came from "enthusiasts" so much, including some authors. quote:I hope that when they decide to revisit this it's for a game that's designed with the system in mind, so they can come up with some solution with the compatibility and support issues. This always looks like a test run for an old game so they could get data and improve it for next time, like when they tested the hat market on TF2 in preparation for Dota. I think I said somewhere upthread but a mod market where QA and compatibility handling was built in would be worth money. I don't know if it's feasible though.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 16:30
|
|
|
Wee Tinkle Wand posted:Or just give us a tip button to drop a few bux into the Steam Wallet of the modder. So elegant and simple. this. I wouldn't have had a problem with this
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 16:36
|
|
|
ANIME IS BLOOD posted:this. I wouldn't have had a problem with this Except this wasn't the point. It doesn't print free money for Valve and Beth. Modders getting money wasn't the goal, it was the justification.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 16:37
|
|
|
JerikTelorian posted:Except this wasn't the point. It doesn't print free money for Valve and Beth. Modders getting money wasn't the goal, it was the justification. technically if we were tipping steambux valve would still be getting its cut
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 16:42
|
|
|
I was contemplating another round of binge-modding right when this whole furor hit. Now that it's over, would it be best to wait a week or so for those modders who've torn down their mods in outrage or hidden them for fear of theft to get them back up on the Nexus? Hopefully we haven't lost stuff like Chesko's mods for good.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 17:06
|
|
|
Canemacar posted:I was contemplating another round of binge-modding right when this whole furor hit. Now that it's over, would it be best to wait a week or so for those modders who've torn down their mods in outrage or hidden them for fear of theft to get them back up on the Nexus? Hopefully we haven't lost stuff like Chesko's mods for good. apparently chesko's mods are still around, he has himself just disappeared from public view
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 17:07
|
|
|
I'm hoping the new skyui version will still become reality now that a large part of the work involved was completed. Hand it over to someone else comptetent who does care maybe.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 17:14
|
|
|
ANIME IS BLOOD posted:this. I wouldn't have had a problem with this Unfortunately the vast majority of people are cheap and don't bother paying if there is a free option. While it should be an option for mod makers it should be up to them since they did the work. I mean there's a reason that system isn't the standard for the games industry at large, it doesn't work.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 17:19
|
|
|
Tzarnal posted:I'm hoping the new skyui version will still become reality now that a large part of the work involved was completed. Hand it over to someone else comptetent who does care maybe.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 17:33
|
|
|
GunnerJ posted:I think I said somewhere upthread but a mod market where QA and compatibility handling was built in would be worth money. I don't know if it's feasible though. Bethesda built a game and a system for modding and really only needs to upkeep that. The modders are the ones required to make sure their stuff works within the framework provided. Bethesda can expand that framework but should not be responsible for a mod creator being bad at making mods. I mean should bethesda go out of their way to make sure the horse anus mod works on every horse? No. That is that weirdos job, not Bethesdas. From there it really is the job of the players to pay for the mod or not. Much like most digital media, some times there are flops. Video games has quite a few of these. Flops are then reported by word of mouth and if bad enough taken off the distribution method. People will bitch and moan about steam or bethesda verifying mods first, but there was a section called "paid under review" for a reason. Of the 30 or so under review, things like the 100 dollar floating chair mod was most likely not going to make it. Steams refund policy is pretty old and people thought that this was some how a new thing that they give you credit for which really isn't a bad thing. Considering how many comics or jokes there are about steam sales, you probably will spend more money on steam if you get a refund. But even then people were complaining about something that had been around for quite awhile. Comments were disabled because of the child like poo poo fit people were throwing at the thought of 17 of the 25,000+ mods costing mainly between 25 cents and 2 dollars. Instead they would like a tipping jar so they could pay those mod creators less.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 17:59
|
|
|
Sonance posted:The book and music publishing industries pay their authors and artists far less than 25% royalties Music publishing is a more accurate comparison. The low royalties, the forceful IP grab, the dismissal of problems back to the artist. Seems about right. Big music publishers are well known as one of the scummiest industry owners around, everybody loving hates them and will cheer their death. Do you really want to model your business after that?
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 18:10
|
|
|
Third World Reggin posted:Bethesda built a game and a system for modding and really only needs to upkeep that. The modders are the ones required to make sure their stuff works within the framework provided. Bethesda can expand that framework but should not be responsible for a mod creator being bad at making mods. I mean should bethesda go out of their way to make sure the horse anus mod works on every horse? No. That is that weirdos job, not Bethesdas. The ethos you just described presents a convincing case for "not." Which is my point. eta: to put it in terms you're using while ignoring the "horse anus" red herring that has nothing to do with any plausible mods on sale (which makes it an odd choice of example given your attention to the details of the deal elsewhere), Bethesda should be responsible for ensuring that there is quality assurance and tech support in place if it expects me to part with my money for a mod, "horse anus" related or otherwise. They should give the mod authors a better cut than 25% if they expect the authors to take on 100% of that burden and to produce mods that aren't just TF2 hat equivalents. GunnerJ fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Apr 28, 2015 |
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 18:15
|
|
|
Third World Reggin posted:Bethesda built a game and a system for modding and really only needs to upkeep that. The modders are the ones required to make sure their stuff works within the framework provided. Bethesda can expand that framework but should not be responsible for a mod creator being bad at making mods. I mean should bethesda go out of their way to make sure the horse anus mod works on every horse? No. That is that weirdos job, not Bethesdas. So why couldn't they just add donations to the system? I mean, people were calling for that. If there had just been a "donate if you like this mod" button people would be cheering for Valve's forward thinking outlook. And laughing at the spergs who were raging at the thought of someone paying a mod maker money of their own volition instead of it being mandatory. I mean, this whole thing was done badly. The percentage distributed to modders was bad. The back end of the system they put up was bad. The concept of how it would jive with TES's modding community was bad (Especially when you consider that everything is dependent on the dependencies remaining free to push development forward for many complex mods.). The potential for quality control of purchased mods was bad. Their initial response to it was bad. Their way of handling the few mods that would debut was bad. Where it could go from there was bad. I'm not saying the people poo poo-bombing the comments of paid mods was appropriate, but really, what the gently caress did anyone expect to happen? They did this to an established community that does not work that way. Within a week it was tearing itself apart in a rabid frenzy. They should have known better.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 18:20
|
|
|
Third World Reggin posted:Bethesda built a game and a system for modding and really only needs to upkeep that. The modders are the ones required to make sure their stuff works within the framework provided. Bethesda can expand that framework but should not be responsible for a mod creator being bad at making mods. I mean should bethesda go out of their way to make sure the horse anus mod works on every horse? No. That is that weirdos job, not Bethesdas. The problem is the scope of what mods are capable of makes it really, really difficult to have situations with multiple mods working in tandem, not to mention that official patches frequently break mods. If they had a system in place and built the engine to make this far less likely it would be a different story, but right now they don't even have a way to adjust load order of mods. Mods also push system requirements well beyond the official game, especially if you start whipping out high-res texture mods and Open Cities and similar mods which are resource-intensive by design (and can be stacked until Skyrim is incapable of polling more memory). Counter-strike maps and TF2 hats don't really break, while even the best mods are pretty much guaranteed to require some in-depth modification to ini files and poo poo like that.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 18:21
|
|
|
For those of you using the SMC, how does the final output compare with the vanilla art-style? I'm usually a bit sceptical when it comes to modders' HD packs. Higher resolution doesn't substitute good taste ( Skyrim HD looks bad, for instance).
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 18:38
|
|
|
anatomi posted:For those of you using the SMC, how does the final output compare with the vanilla art-style? I'm usually a bit sceptical when it comes to modders' HD packs. Higher resolution doesn't substitute good taste ( Skyrim HD looks bad, for instance). It's very lore friendly, I feel.The dude who did it knows his poo poo and Skyrim looks pretty special afterwards. It mixes and matches the most "lore friendly" textures to make it an enhanced version of Skyrim as opposed to looking like an entirely different game. I used it with my terrible as hell phone tethered 3G internet so I may be biased by how long it took me to download the loving thing, though 
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 18:44
|
|
|
Is there anything like the Texture Pack Combiner/Skyrim Mod Combiner for Oblivion? I do kind of want to revisit Oblivion again but having to track down all the individual graphical mods just to make it look decent and without potato faces, before even getting into the overhauls that remove the retarded levelling system is daunting.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 18:45
|
|
|
univbee posted:The problem is the scope of what mods are capable of makes it really, really difficult to have situations with multiple mods working in tandem, not to mention that official patches frequently break mods. If they had a system in place and built the engine to make this far less likely it would be a different story, but right now they don't even have a way to adjust load order of mods. Mods also push system requirements well beyond the official game, especially if you start whipping out high-res texture mods and Open Cities and similar mods which are resource-intensive by design (and can be stacked until Skyrim is incapable of polling more memory). That's one of the major problems certainly. Skyrim mod compatibility, mod merging, etc... all barely work as it is and require hours of troubleshooting. Hats do not. Skyrim modding normally involve various tools outside Steam like MO, LOOT, BASH, etc... If Bethesda/Valve fix this for next Fallout/TES game that's fine but starting with Skyrim is just a big clusterf*.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 18:54
|
|
|
Third World Reggin posted:Bethesda built a game and a system for modding and really only needs to upkeep that. The modders are the ones required to make sure their stuff works within the framework provided. Bethesda can expand that framework but should not be responsible for a mod creator being bad at making mods. I mean should bethesda go out of their way to make sure the horse anus mod works on every horse? No. That is that weirdos job, not Bethesdas. You don't know as much about this specific instance of Skyrim and paid mods that you think you do. The whole thing was implemented badly, the other people that simply did not want to pay for mods don't make the others who thought the system was bad wrong. Just like the modders who lorded over everyone and demanded they buy their pay mod and stop using the free one don't ruin the other modders who took a much more even approach to the whole thing. If people don't want to spend money (or as much money) then that's their prerogative, they are 'agents' in this system and the system has to take them into account. There is no forcing people to pay for things they don't want to and "the child like poo poo fit" people threw was powerful enough to make Valve pull the plug on the whole thing, illustrating exactly how useful bitching on the internet about video games actually is. If I am going to pay for a mod I need some more value in the transaction outside of feeling bad about not supporting the modder. I need like, patches and some sort of guarantee that there is support there, you know, like vetted DLC. You have to convince me to part with my money, not the other way around. Consumers are the one with the power since they hold the money, which means you do what they want (or think they want anyway) in order to get them to cough up the dough.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 19:28
|
|
|
Ddraig posted:It's very lore friendly, I feel.The dude who did it knows his poo poo and Skyrim looks pretty special afterwards. It mixes and matches the most "lore friendly" textures to make it an enhanced version of Skyrim as opposed to looking like an entirely different game.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 19:40
|
|
|
Archonex posted:I'm not saying the people poo poo-bombing the comments of paid mods was appropriate, but really, what the gently caress did anyone expect to happen? They did this to an established community that does not work that way. Within a week it was tearing itself apart in a rabid frenzy. They should have known better. WHO COULD HAVE FORESEEN?!
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 20:13
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 18:18 |
|
|
Gyshall posted:Yeah https://bitbucket.org/drigger/smc/overview Do you have the "Skyrim Realistic Overhaul"? The Nexus page is down. E: Probably should have waited until I found all the missing ones. Starting now and being edited in, here's a list of what's in SMC but with broken links. 4K Parallax Skyrim Bumpy Inn and Shop Signs v3 HarmB fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Apr 28, 2015 |
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2015 20:21
|
|
