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Holy moly those first draft power levels 
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Apr 29, 2015 04:25
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Seriously though the combat kiths presented there are pretty much just par for the course w/r/t 2E combat systems - "has a weapon" or "has armor" are nothing to write home about. That's approximately in line with the noncombat kiths, who also basically get traits that you could've gotten anyway if you'd bought the right Merits. Of course, there are multiple quotes that seem to depict Changelings threatening their own Keepers with physical violence, so maybe there'll be a bevy of fuckawesome combative Contracts to even the score.
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Apr 29, 2015 04:34
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A version of Changeling where you're powerful enough to gently caress up your Keeper out of the book and therefore they have to resort to trickery, guile, and intermediaries in order to pursue you sure would fit with the bizarre Badass Teen stylings of some of these second editions, but isn't a game I'm particularly interested in playing.
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Apr 29, 2015 04:40
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In 1E, I made a combat Ogre (Daitya kith) and was a complete wrecking ball. I once did 11 lethal damage in one hit.
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Apr 29, 2015 04:43
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nWoD mechanics are so explosive that no one roll result is either surprising or illustrative of actual power. I should know; last week I got seven successes on one 8-again die. It was the die I rolled to represent the +1 edge of my Claws of the Wild. Base pool combined with the actual tricks you're bringing to bear -- in other words, expected successes -- are much more indicative of power level.
Crion fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Apr 29, 2015 |
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Apr 29, 2015 04:45
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The Ogre contract of strength is just amazing, and then I had a Hedge-crafted dagger. I could have been even more powerful had I wanted to hyper-focus my character even more. I didn't even have a fighting style!
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Apr 29, 2015 04:52
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So what are we talking about, some kind of Call of Cthulhu thing where a hilariously powerful offense is easy to acquire and adequate defense really isn't?
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Apr 29, 2015 04:56
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My assumption is this Ogre build involves using the really poorly-written Stone 1 power over and over again to snowball extra Strength dice into successive reflexive activations of the contract (as it is, after all, a Strength roll) until you've hit your glamour/turn cap, at which point you throw your effective Strength of 15 or whatever into a likely 8-again attack pool? Man, so many of that game's contracts were useless unless they were unintentionally broken.
Crion fucked around with this message at 05:15 on Apr 29, 2015 |
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Apr 29, 2015 05:03
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Pope Guilty posted:So what are we talking about, some kind of Call of Cthulhu thing where a hilariously powerful offense is easy to acquire and adequate defense really isn't? In the 2e drafts? Nope! A Chimera can spend a Glamour to go "Yeah, all your magics? They don't mean squat" for the rest of the scene (that was the one I warned about being too powerful-I like the anti-magic but come on) and a Draconic starts with the ability to downgrade (Wyrd) lethal into Bashing at all times, a Glamour means that becomes actual armor. I also fully expect that everything Huntsmen do is based around avoiding a direct confrontation until the time is right, and True Fae are also getting cranked up. I expect Keepers will have multiple Kith Blessings, just as they did before...
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Apr 29, 2015 05:17
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Chimeras can spend 1 glamour to gain the rote quality on all their resistance rolls against splat powers for the remainder of the scene. This is powerful, and good. It is not, however, the ability to declare magic does not work for the duration of a scene. Especially if the pool in question is like, four or five dice. And having a strictly worse version of a core Vampire feature is, also, pretty nifty, but not something wholly badass or special by itself. In fact, most of this looks pretty sane for someone not interested in playing superhero Changeling.
Crion fucked around with this message at 05:25 on Apr 29, 2015 |
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Apr 29, 2015 05:23
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The draconic damage downgrade is worse than armor, and costs to turn into normal armor. The chimera magic tolerance is considerably better - in terms of uniqueness and applicability it's probably the strongest trait on offer in that entire document - but all it really does is even the odds against dicepools that'd otherwise be way bigger than whatever you're rolling to contest, and it's also 100% useless against powers which are resisted rather than contested.
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Apr 29, 2015 05:25
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A lot of the associated flavor text feels... well.Nightsinger posted:You sir, in the back, I believe you yelled "rap sucks". I didn't come here to perform vapid pop music and tonight is an open mike night. I'm going to be up here for the next 10 minutes, whether you like it or not. However, in honor of you I'll change up my style a bit and play something that may teach you a thing or two, if it doesn't send you running screaming. Though I suppose the fact that flavor text is the worst nitpick I have is a pretty good sign. Reading this is mostly just making me remember that it's been way too long since I actually got to play Changeling.
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Apr 29, 2015 05:33
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Crion posted:My assumption is this Ogre build involves using the really poorly-written Stone 1 power over and over again to snowball extra Strength dice into successive reflexive activations of the contract (as it is, after all, a Strength roll) until you've hit your glamour/turn cap, at which point you throw your effective Strength of 15 or whatever into a likely 8-again attack pool? Man, so many of that game's contracts were useless unless they were unintentionally broken. Yes, except I usually didn't need to use Stone 1 more than once. I had a really good dice-pool for that power. The character was also Summer court (obviously) trying to be all knightly and honorable, so he also got access to the least-sucky Mantle. Since he was a Daitya, I could also spend a Glamour to ignore hardness when striking objects, meaning I could slice off a Tank if I wanted. And my Hedge-Crafted dagger would release a hilariously deadly poison when spending an additionnal Glamour. Spekaing of which, poisons are loving deadly in the nWoD. My favorite bloodline, the Jones (Brotherhood of Ypres) are kind of underpowered when playing Requiem because vampries are immune to poisons... but overpowered when fighting anything else. It's extremely easy to get to a level where your poisons are of a Toxicity higher than 5, meaning the the target has to succeed at a roll to resist the poison with a penalty of 5+ or take 5+ lethal instantly. And then a level 5 you can transform into poison mist, just like Alucard in Symphony of the Night, except your poison is almost a garanteed insta-kill.
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Apr 29, 2015 05:39
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Androc posted:A lot of the associated flavor text feels... well. The kith quotes are insane. I assume these are just drafts and they'll be changing in the final version to something that reads a little better, but  I could post literally any of them but I especially like Fireheart posted:I remember existing as a single flame in an endless plain of fire. I'm home and free, but I'm still drawn to large fires, I suppose that's why I became an arson investigator. e: A Game of Beautiful Madness Maker posted:I can have this done for you later tonight. If you are willing to wait until tomorrow, I can throw in an object file for making it via 3-d printing. That way, if you ever need another, someone can print you one. I could also get you set up with a 3-d printer of your own – they're really a lot of fun to work with. Kellsterik fucked around with this message at 06:07 on Apr 29, 2015 |
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Apr 29, 2015 06:03
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Androc posted:A lot of the associated flavor text feels... well. holy poo poo lol
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Apr 29, 2015 06:23
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What the heck is going on at Onyx Path? The decline in fiction quality and the lack of editorial control is pretty astonishing.
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Apr 29, 2015 06:45
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These are first drafts, I would imagine they willput something more respectable in the final version. The lore snippets in Blood and Smoke were over the top but not terrible, from what I remember.
paradoxGentleman fucked around with this message at 08:39 on Apr 29, 2015 |
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Apr 29, 2015 08:34
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The bizarre fluff pieces do show off one of the challenges of having Kith take the spotlight. My problem is less that they're goofy and more that none of them make me really want to read more about the Kiths on their own. If there's going to be 100 or so of these in the final book, the flavor text needs to be more than just either doing mundane things with a "twist" or vaguely sinister threats. I can only hope that they pull it off in the final draft. Do we know if Kith/Seeming is the new X/Y splat for 2e, or is it Kith/Court? I'm still not sure and I've read the outline a few times.
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Apr 29, 2015 12:00
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So going over this in the light of day, probably the only Kith Blessing I'm really not comfortable with is Razorhands being able to start throwing around Agg straight out of the gate. Especially with the 2E focus on making Agg sources really hard to come by. The fluff bits are kind of bland, which isn't too damning. Fluff pieces generally run a pretty wide gamut. If it were the main fiction bits I'd be concerned, but these are like 1-2 sentance(s) apiece. That said there are still a few that I'd like to see reworked because a couple of them are pretty cringeworthy. Overall this update didn't really feel too world-shattering. I think the only thing I wasn't expecting, apart from just how strong some of those Kith Blessings are, is just how much of an impact Seemings have on your appearance. I was expecting it to be a bit more subtle. I suppose it makes sense though, if you tone them down too much they'd basically just become a second Mantle. Free Cog posted:The bizarre fluff pieces do show off one of the challenges of having Kith take the spotlight. My problem is less that they're goofy and more that none of them make me really want to read more about the Kiths on their own. If there's going to be 100 or so of these in the final book, the flavor text needs to be more than just either doing mundane things with a "twist" or vaguely sinister threats. I can only hope that they pull it off in the final draft. X is more like Kith + Seeming. Y is still Courts. There's not going to be default Courts this time, though. The chapter about regions is going to cover multiple potential structures (including 1E's Seasonal setup).
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Apr 29, 2015 12:34
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How do multiplicative effects work in NWoD 2e? The Levinquick's glamour power triples your speed and defense against firearms per glamour spent, and using that three times and getting X * 9 speed, and using that three times and getting X * 3 *3 * 3 speed seems like the difference between being a super fast dude, and being the Flash.
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Apr 29, 2015 12:59
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Generally, each activation adds your base speed to your current speed - see Celerity. In this case, that becomes +(2*Speed) per activation I think.
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Apr 29, 2015 13:38
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A quick ctrl+f through the Kith Draft reveals that there are no 9-again abilities, only 8-again. they're learning
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Apr 29, 2015 14:20
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Gerund posted:But seeing each kith get only its top three "best" seemings described is showing the strain of the Kith-into-Seemings concept. Cross-Kith'd changelings were a supported option in C:tL, so I'm not seeing much extra 'freedom' here for me. I suspect that's more to do with word count than them being unable to think up variations for all the seemings. Personally I thought they mostly seemed pretty cool and I didn't mind most of the fluff sentences. The rap one was a bit cringey and the 3d printing bit is just a really bizarre tangent for no purpose but otherwise, they seem ok.
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Apr 29, 2015 14:26
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Gerund posted:A quick ctrl+f through the Kith Draft reveals that there are no 9-again abilities, only 8-again. 9-again's utter crapness is sinking in a bit after years of Stew and I harping on about it in design discussions.
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Apr 29, 2015 15:37
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I was about to pester dave for the creative thaumaturgy blog but then I noticed it's already up: http://theonyxpath.com/the-creative-arts-mage-the-awakening/
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Apr 29, 2015 15:52
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paradoxGentleman posted:These are first drafts, I would imagine they willput something more respectable in the final version. The lore snippets in Blood and Smoke were over the top but not terrible, from what I remember. They're hamstrung by not being able to hire me for everything. Anyway, polishing redlined Path notes even as we speak. I don't think it's breaking NDA to say that or note that Awakening is generally building momentum right now.
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Apr 29, 2015 17:57
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Androc posted:A lot of the associated flavor text feels... well. Kith power: And Then Everybody Stoop Up and Started Clapping
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Apr 29, 2015 18:21
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I'm still wary of anything having easy access to agg considering the two ways for vampires to get it are either a 4 dot cruac ritual with some hefty downsides or 4 dots in a discipline, a 4 dot merit and you're frenzying and lose your weapon bonus. The fact that Demons, Beasts, Changelings and probably Mages can apparently just poo poo it out is perplexing.
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Apr 29, 2015 19:51
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Nah, Vampires just suck.
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Apr 29, 2015 20:07
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I may be misremembering but most of the ways demons can get agg involve serious risk. Changelings shouldn't be the sorts who can just snap their hands and get agg on a whim, though, and Beast has bigger fish to fry (though instant agg is a fish worth frying.) Mages, well, I'm just gonna assume  is still in play until the book's in my hands.
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Apr 29, 2015 20:09
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Daeren posted:I may be misremembering but most of the ways demons can get agg involve serious risk. Changelings shouldn't be the sorts who can just snap their hands and get agg on a whim, though, and Beast has bigger fish to fry (though instant agg is a fish worth frying.) What there was in the preview seems to indicate that the attack spells at three dots still only deal bashing, but mages are playing such a different game that I doubt they need to care that much about damage types in the first place.
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Apr 29, 2015 20:31
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My hope is that 2E mages are genuinely weak and fragile.Esser-Z posted:Nah, Vampires just suck. Yeah, in 2E it's just vampires who have no real access to agg to speak of while every other splat can throw it around out of the gate. I can't imagine the people writing Vampire 2E knew about werewolf bites, demon guns, etc, as they were actually finalizing stuff, so I just chalk this up to general lack of oversight/consistency.
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Apr 29, 2015 20:33
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Androc posted:What there was in the preview seems to indicate that the attack spells at three dots still only deal bashing, but mages are playing such a different game that I doubt they need to care that much about damage types in the first place. Why would you ever use an attack spell instead of OOPS THAT CAR'S TIRE BLEW AND IT SLAMMED INTO YOU or whatever? IMO, Mage surives on creativity, not blasting.
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Apr 29, 2015 20:35
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Esser-Z posted:Nah, Vampires just suck. I have heard this joke done in an hundred different manners and I still find it funny.
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Apr 29, 2015 20:35
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Esser-Z posted:Why would you ever use an attack spell instead of OOPS THAT CAR'S TIRE BLEW AND IT SLAMMED INTO YOU or whatever? IMO, Mage surives on creativity, not blasting. That's an attack spell.
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Apr 29, 2015 20:36
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Esser-Z posted:Why would you ever use an attack spell instead of OOPS THAT CAR'S TIRE BLEW AND IT SLAMMED INTO YOU or whatever? IMO, Mage surives on creativity, not blasting. first of all, Ferrinus posted:That's an attack spell. second of all, what if you're fighting the spooky numbers intruder and you're down to just Forces, Time, and Matter? What then, smart guy.
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Apr 29, 2015 20:39
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Esser-Z posted:Why would you ever use an attack spell instead of OOPS THAT CAR'S TIRE BLEW AND IT SLAMMED INTO YOU or whatever? IMO, Mage surives on creativity, not blasting.  .e: wait, the moros doesn't but Death is just as good for blasting as Forces.
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Apr 29, 2015 20:47
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Ferrinus posted:My hope is that 2E mages are genuinely weak and fragile. If I had to offer a simple concession I'd probably just have anything created by Protean 2 deal Lethal to Vampires, and have weapons created by Protean 4 deal Agg, and do away with that weird Merit entirely. Vampires are pretty good at throwing around Conditions and I would argue that they should probably be the best at it but yeah, they should have in-splat limited access to agg regardless.
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Apr 29, 2015 20:50
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I play a forces/matter mage in the game I'm in and I have never once cast a dungeons and dragons attack spell. god willing I never will
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Apr 29, 2015 20:51
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I asked in the comments, but just so everyone here is fully aware. Using Forces to Shield someone from gravity means just that. You can turn off gravity at two dots. 
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Apr 29, 2015 21:06
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