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Zeitgueist posted:Nobody in the thread likes riots. shrike82 posted:Nah, there're definitely people here and leftists in general abetting the riots as a precursor to revolution. Yeah this, you clearly aren't reading the thread, there are legitimately people in this thread stoked on the riots. Also someone a few posts up literally accused me of being OK with white sports riots.
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Apr 29, 2015 18:07
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Knifegrab posted:Yeah this, you clearly aren't reading the thread, there are legitimately people in this thread stoked on the riots. Feel free to quote them for me. I'll allow one for trolling, but find me 2. quote:Also someone a few posts up literally accused me of being OK with white sports riots. Yeah that one went over your head, didn't it.
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Apr 29, 2015 18:09
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Knifegrab posted:Also someone a few posts up literally accused me of being OK with white sports riots. I don't think you got the point of that comparison, to be honest.
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Apr 29, 2015 18:10
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Spacman posted:Mate, I'm not From the U.S. Spacman posted:I dunno matey, Spacman posted:Matey, I'm not your enemy. Spacman posted:Matey, I'm not your enemy. This is profoundly obnoxious and obviously a hamfisted attempt to talk down to people. Shut up, chappie.
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Apr 29, 2015 18:11
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http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/04/how-baltimore-riots-began-mondawmin-purge I've heard some mention of the situation that kind of spawned the riot, but if true, hell, we can hold BPD's response partly responsible. Trapping a bunch of school aged kids in a location, in that climate, and trying to corral them with riot cops simply because you expect a riot is a great way to kick one off. Not to excuse any of the violent and destructive behaviour, but it's difficult not to hold the authorities to a higher standard than a bunch of teenaged kids with no way to get home. Anyone else see much reporting regarding how it got going?
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Apr 29, 2015 18:11
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Also lol at police apologetics from outside the US. The acceptable response to US policing from non-Americans should be a blank stare of horror.
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Apr 29, 2015 18:12
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Zeitgueist posted:Also lol at police apologetics from outside the US. The acceptable response to US policing from non-Americans should be a blank stare of horror.
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Apr 29, 2015 18:19
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mccaine doesn't post here no more, but he posted this article on facebook. key takeaway:quote:"Empirical tests of the mass insurgency thesis [of welfare expansion] have generally followed one of two research strategies. First, several studies have used time-series analysis to examine variation in national (aggregate) measures of United States welfare programs such as AFDC recipient levels, expenditures, or benefit levels, usually spanning the postwar years through the late 1970s... The test of the effect of insurgency in this case is conducted by testing the null hypothesis that the number of riots, usually lagged one or two years, does not affect welfare once relevant control variables are included. Each of these studies has easily rejected the null hypothesis, finding insurgency to be positively and significantly related to welfare expansion... in other words, riots work
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Apr 29, 2015 18:20
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Alligator Horse posted:Check out this 538 post. It discusses data from the EEOC and Census which indicates "In about two-thirds of the U.S. cities with the largest police forces, the majority of police officers commute to work from another town." This trend is less common among minority officers, who more often live in the areas they police. I do think this has a lot of explanatory power when it comes to the mutual suspicion between police and the policed, and indicates one of the many challenges policymakers and LEOs face in community outreach. This is actually a pretty interesting post. I notice a lot of Virginia cities way down on that list, which is a pretty funny thing-- Virginia has "independent cities," so basically the city core is its own entity, and the suburbs are governed by separate county governments. I suspect in a lot of cities most police officers come from the suburbs, so that tends to eliminate a large swathe of otherwise "in the city" officers for VA cities. The exception, naturally, is Virginia Beach, which kind of went all Snidely Whiplash and ate literally its entire county when nobody was looking. Nowhere for officers to live but in the city, there.
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Apr 29, 2015 18:20
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:mccaine doesn't post here no more, but he posted this article on facebook.
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Apr 29, 2015 18:22
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Rent-A-Cop posted:I'm sure that article is very interesting but it's hard to read it because I'm laughing so hard at the idea of anyone following Mccaine on Facebook.  Rules Everything Around Me
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Apr 29, 2015 18:26
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hobotrashcanfires posted:http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/04/how-baltimore-riots-began-mondawmin-purge I'd love to see some kind of study on the genesis of riots in relation to the presence of decked-out riot cops. If you have a mass of people angry enough to deindividualize and start breaking poo poo, a line of shield-bearing cops can be less of a deterrent and more of a green light and starting line.
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Apr 29, 2015 18:38
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I have to agree that rioting and destroying property belonging to your own community is absolutely unacceptable. I mean, look at this fresh photo from Baltimore: Just shameful. The people at this picture should have learned to peacefully bring change while working within the system. Violence is never an acceptable solution. Gantolandon fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Apr 29, 2015 |
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Apr 29, 2015 18:40
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V. Illych L. posted:getting angry about riots is complete idiocy That's a dehumanizing way of putting it. Riots themselves are not organized, but people do participate in them. Are individual rioters criminally and morally culpable for their crimes?
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Apr 29, 2015 18:40
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Yes, the individuals are responsible for their individual acts of vandalism. The fact that a riot happened is the responsibility of the authorities.
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Apr 29, 2015 18:45
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Zeitgueist posted:Also lol at police apologetics from outside the US. The acceptable response to US policing from non-Americans should be a blank stare of horror. Except he's not a police apologist, judging from his post history he just likes feeling superior to barbaric Americans? People can have different reasons for being assholes.
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Apr 29, 2015 18:47
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snyprmag posted:Yes, the individuals are responsible for their individual acts of vandalism. Thanks. I confused V. Ilyich criticizing about getting angry about RIOTS with getting angry at RIOTING.
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Apr 29, 2015 18:51
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Rhesus Pieces posted:I'd love to see some kind of study on the genesis of riots in relation to the presence of decked-out riot cops. Definitely. Take any large group of teenagers fresh out of school and give them nothing to do and nowhere to go but to mill about among themselves and you're gonna cause problems. Add the situation in their lives, in the city, surround them with a bunch of riot cops expecting them to riot. Given the behaviour of some of these cops in particular in the past and during the riots, doubt the situation was free of antagonism. Sure would be nice to see some more reporting about why it happened (both due to historical reasons as well as that immediate situation).
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Apr 29, 2015 19:00
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Rent-A-Cop posted:It may surprise you to discover that when it comes to policing a lot of the world is much, much worse. I'm assuming developed nations here.
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Apr 29, 2015 19:07
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hobotrashcanfires posted:Definitely. Take any large group of teenagers fresh out of school and give them nothing to do and nowhere to go but to mill about among themselves and you're gonna cause problems. Add the situation in their lives, in the city, surround them with a bunch of riot cops expecting them to riot. Given the behaviour of some of these cops in particular in the past and during the riots, doubt the situation was free of antagonism. Sure would be nice to see some more reporting about why it happened (both due to historical reasons as well as that immediate situation). http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/28/baltimore-protests-freddie-gray_n_7160358.html?1430229401 The purge was real and planned. That mother jones article is weak and does not prove what it sets out to prove. Sure cops shut that area down and it probably made the situation worse but guess what that situation was always going to deteriorate. That was the plan. Kurt_Cobain fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Apr 29, 2015 |
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Apr 29, 2015 19:24
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Kurt_Cobain posted:The purge Go on.
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Apr 29, 2015 19:42
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Kurt_Cobain posted:It is like we are so far down the rabbit hole even pointing out people were planning this makes you a bad person You're pretty racist.
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Apr 29, 2015 19:43
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Here is an actual conspiracy by racist newspaper people to drum up poo poo the WP crew disseminate as facts. http://www.altweeklies.com/aan/baltimore-city-paper-ordered-to-pay-350000-in-defamation-verdict/Article?oid=2857112 because these same people were behind the whole INNOCENT WHITE LADY BEEN MUGGED BY A THUG RUN GET GET EM
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Apr 29, 2015 19:47
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Kurt_Cobain posted:It is like we are so far down the rabbit hole even pointing out people were planning this makes you a bad person "Real and planned". Yes I was a kid once too, and things would get passed around and "planned". Was the police response one that helped prevent or engender it? Because I'm not seeing much pointing to any kind of intelligent response. School aged teenagers caught up in the madness and excitement of what is going on in their neighborhoods and cities is to be expected. There's a whole lot of responsibility on adults and those in authority to handle that. The police decided to give all of them no way to go home, and even if you assume "the purge" was a foregone conclusion, you're left with any kid dropped off at that location (a major point to transfer to other modes of transit) caught up in that situation. Am I supposed to believe that each and every one of them was there for "the purge"? The police had plenty of forewarning. If they cut off those kids from having any choice but to be in with anyone planning a mob, they bear quite a bit of responsibility for it. Be it incompetence or whatever else. You'll have to do a better job of convincing me than saying some teenagers planned it, and anyone there was there for that reason, and the authorities just couldn't do a darn thing to stop it. No, pointing out that many kids were planning and talking about it doesn't make you a bad person. I certainly didn't say so.
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Apr 29, 2015 19:49
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Zeitgueist posted:I'm assuming developed nations here. American justice is nuts, but it's still not nearly as corrupt or brutal as most of the world.
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Apr 29, 2015 19:52
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Dudes, community leaders have been running counter ops since at least saturday and certainly all day monday, all the way up to the point of businesses closing and sending their employees home early. This was not simply created when the cops shut an area down and trapped these kids there. They shut the area down knowing what was planned. In hindsight we can reasonably say that shutting down the area was a bad idea.
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Apr 29, 2015 19:53
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Rent-A-Cop posted:What you're assuming is "Western European states not including Italy plus Canada and Australia" because "developed nations" covers a few places you can still be executed for sorcery. That's basically the list of developed nations yes. I recognize the issues Japan has and they're different than the US but I don't know if I want to really play oppression olympics. Yes if you're posting from like Sao Paulo sure, you win.
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Apr 29, 2015 19:54
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They run counter-ops, COPS are in control, so they let the mother burn, because they don't give a gently caress about the community. Nice one sherlock. Now we know the cops were scum.
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Apr 29, 2015 19:54
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Yes project more please
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Apr 29, 2015 19:56
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Kurt_Cobain posted:Yes project more please 
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Apr 29, 2015 19:57
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Kurt_Cobain posted:Yes project more please Tell us more about the purge.
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Apr 29, 2015 19:58
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Zeitgueist posted:Tell us more about the purge. Twitter says its every bit as real as any other senior prank
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Apr 29, 2015 19:59
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Woozy posted:Twitter says its every bit as real as any other senior prank Isn't the purge about cops basically going home and letting the city burn. He might be onto something.
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Apr 29, 2015 20:00
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 BREAKING Baltimore students have begun orchestrating fight clubs after curfew
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Apr 29, 2015 20:00
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Is it the term purge that you object to because there is no video of someone actually saying it? "I don't want my employees to be anywhere near that," Andrzejewski said around 1:30 p.m., before any groups of teenagers had arrived. Within an hour, the entire mall shut down, closing dozens of shops based on social media reports and information from police. "As a safety precaution, Mondawmin decided to close," mall spokesman Greg Harris said. Am I a cop apologist? Racist? Why?
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Apr 29, 2015 20:03
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Kurt_Cobain posted:Is it the term purge that you object to because there is no video of someone actually saying it? Yes.
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Apr 29, 2015 20:04
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Kurt_Cobain posted:Is it the term purge that you object to because there is no video of someone actually saying it? It's because your takes are too fresh, to insightful, it's making us uncomfortable in our ivory towers.
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Apr 29, 2015 20:06
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Kurt_Cobain posted:Dudes, community leaders have been running counter ops since at least saturday and certainly all day monday, all the way up to the point of businesses closing and sending their employees home early. This was not simply created when the cops shut an area down and trapped these kids there. They shut the area down knowing what was planned. In hindsight we can reasonably say that shutting down the area was a bad idea. And in foresight we can see that funneling teenage schoolkids en masse into the very place many had spoken about and planned to raise some hell was a bad idea. I'm not in law enforcement or school administration..but maybe you use those dozens of armored riot cops and resources to control the flow of students, delay busses, encourage schools to get parents to pick them up, etc.. But hey, foresight is 20/20 when you show up to a "planned" riot in riot gear and close down a mall and effectively trap everyone.. e: It's not terribly clear what you're saying. You seemed to imply I..or anyone else said 'It is like we are so far down the rabbit hole even pointing out people were planning this makes you a bad person', then referred to the mother jones article as weak, without ever saying why. If you're being misunderstood, you really have to make your point a whole lot more clearly. \/\/\/ hobotrashcanfires fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Apr 29, 2015 |
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Apr 29, 2015 20:08
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Eidt ^ Fine, did I ever say otherwise? Clearly the police have failed that community when people have to police themselves and beg kids all day monday not do it Now this is just weak
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Apr 29, 2015 20:09
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As the BPD would not provide comment, I'm curious if they even contacted the school administration regarding the students who went through the mall every day to go home. We can safely ignore that though as a fast food manager decided to pull a solid for his employees proving he has more foresight than the BPD.
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Apr 29, 2015 20:10
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