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newtestleper posted:People spend the time and energy to read your crappy story and write stuff about it and you have the nerve to criticize them for it? You're a loving rear end in a top hat. in fairness taking it to FA was what he was asked to do. but also in fairness this is wibbling DGAF word salsa: To answer your questions: I'm not sure, I don't think I have a good grasp of what plot is. Any tips, or perhaps what do you see as being the plot in that story? I see what you mean about conflict, there isn't really any. Maybe Isaac should have tried to stop Luke going, maybe Luke should have been captured by the angels and fought to escape. Character's goal was, uh, well as you said it was pretty obvious at the point I dropped it, but that I dropped it late. Hmm, I guess he didn't really achieve anything, more implied that he had tried for a long time and then found a possible answer, which worked. No real barriers to overcome I think is the problem here? The main reason we kind of collectively frown on crit responding round here is that it's nearly always pointless. Don't talk about your words, talk through your words. If you really truly think someone got something wrong about your piece, then ignore what they said, but my experience in mumblemumble years of reading and writing bad flash fiction is that every crit has something it can teach you even if it was just 'this was really bad by comparison with these' or 'this was the experience one reader had while reading my words'.
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Apr 28, 2015 02:43
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My favorite crits are the ones that tell me what I did right and what I did wrong -- seriously, Thunderdome rocks for this, you guys rock for this -- but I'll take a wall of textual abuse if that's what's given. A teaspoon of sugar may make bitter medicine easier to swallow, but medicine is medicine. What you should take away from this is that you should drink everything you can find in your medicine cabinet. Screaming Idiot fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Apr 28, 2015 |
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Apr 28, 2015 02:46
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'wibbling DGAF word salsa' Good phrase. But I do GAF. My goal from all this is basically 'make people care, damnit' I would specifically like some advice on plotting.
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Apr 28, 2015 02:46
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Most questions in critiques are actually rhetorical. Just FYI, y'all.
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Apr 28, 2015 02:47
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Holy poo poo i love this thread. It's like the thread that time forgot. I can go months without reading anything on here, bop in, and hey! Nothing new! In a good way, of course. I remember when I was the new writer who was going to redefine the way people loving read loving words. And you guys didn't know poo poo about poo poo. WOW those were fun times. OH and on a personal note, just a quick update, I was right. My book has been published by Pengiun and I'm being hailed as the newest thing since sliced Kafka. It's quite amazing how wrong you all were about how great my writing OH WHO AM I KIDDING I AM poo poo. Thx.
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Apr 28, 2015 02:48
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thehomemaster posted:tbh the crit by Tyrannosaurus was filled with far more vitriol but I am thankful for it and it's good. I really enjoy his voice when he crits A- no, you're critting people's crits, telling them they were useless, or how they were wrong in how they crit you, arguing with them and disagreeing with them. Honestly, any response to a crit that isn't a thank you or a clarification of something the critter legit missed (not something that you wrote shittily, but something they didn't know) is a waste of your time and theirs. Don't learn how to explain your story after the fact, don't learn how to nod your head to things people say, learn how to read a crit and then fix it the next time you write. you seriously look like an ungrateful little poo poo right now.
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Apr 28, 2015 02:48
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thehomemaster posted:I would specifically like some advice on plotting. You said you don't have a good grasp on what plot even is. Read any basic website on writing. Google "what is a plot." Buy one of the fifty thousand books on writing recommended in this thread. I know the thread title is "advice" but no one is going to write you a special lesson on basic writing concepts.
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Apr 28, 2015 02:49
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magnificent7 posted:Holy poo poo i love this thread. It's like the thread that time forgot. I can go months without reading anything on here, bop in, and hey! Nothing new! Missed you, buddy 
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Apr 28, 2015 02:51
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thehomemaster posted:'wibbling DGAF word salsa' Don't plot. Have a character who wants something, attempts to achieve it by overcoming obstacles and make sure we give a poo poo. Make sure the goal is appropriately sized for the number of words you're writing. don't introduce any new characters past the 1/3 mark, don't introduce new plot elements past the 2/3 mark. Bam done.
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Apr 28, 2015 02:53
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thehomemaster posted:
Once upon a time... And every day... But then one day... Because of this... and... And in the end... There, a plot. Oh and for the record, the bit of the crit you said was useless meant 'you used non-standard punctuation and I'm not sure if it's fair to pull you upon it, but I want you to know I noticed so it pulled me out of the story at least a bit' and 'Orientalism is bad, don't be weird and racist more than you can help'. I understood that and I haven't even read your drat story.
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Apr 28, 2015 02:55
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also, my lovely attempt at a crit sucked and wasnt helpful at all sorry. it was basically this seems like a mistake i dont understand the ending lol. so posting to say that i owe a crit. ill try to do one later tonight, k? also that is good advice sebmojo
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Apr 28, 2015 02:58
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spectres of autism posted:also, my lovely attempt at a crit sucked and wasnt helpful at all sorry. it was basically this seems like a mistake i dont understand the ending lol. so posting to say that i owe a crit. ill try to do one later tonight, k? dude you just critted your own crit back up a layer
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Apr 28, 2015 03:04
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crabrock posted:no, you're critting people's crits, telling them they were useless, or how they were wrong in how they crit you, arguing with them and disagreeing with them. You realise you're using plurals? (Now I'm being a little poo poo.) sebmojo posted:Don't plot. Nice.
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Apr 28, 2015 03:06
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Politely asking for clarification on a point you're not sure you understood: Good, you're engaging with the critiquer and want to make sure you're getting the most out of their time. Calling something you didn't understand a useless chunk of words instead of asking for that clarification: 
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Apr 28, 2015 03:23
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write good not bad
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Apr 28, 2015 03:26
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LOU BEGAS MUSTACHE posted:write good not bad best advice
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Apr 28, 2015 03:37
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sebmojo posted:best advice But we all still ignore it week after week. 
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Apr 28, 2015 03:40
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Writing good is trendy, I think you should follow your own path.
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Apr 28, 2015 04:35
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Sitting Here posted:Missed you, buddy
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Apr 28, 2015 14:48
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i fuckin love the phrase he thought. im gonna write a novel thats all third person thinking and the action will be eating a sandwich and im gonna make a million dollars!!!! srlsy i do like it.
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Apr 28, 2015 21:33
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crabrock posted:13. Untitled I just want to say this was an excellent critique and I laughed while sagely nodding (also, weeping). Thanks for the feedback. Also, why did two people say it was untitled? I mean, I posted it without the title, but went back and edited a title in. Does it just instantly scrape the original post?
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Apr 29, 2015 04:50
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thehomemaster posted:Also, why did two people say it was untitled? I mean, I posted it without the title, but went back and edited a title in. Does it just instantly scrape the original post? Stories go into the archive as they were when we first saw them, in accordance with TD rules: Sitting Here posted:All story posts are final. No edits, no take-backsies. Once you’ve submitted, your rear end is riding the train full speed to Fistville. The judges MIGHT use lube, assuming you don’t try to sneak back in and edit your entry.
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Apr 29, 2015 05:57
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i dunno if anyones ever done this but i broke a writers block (wasnt sure how to resolve an issue) by rubber ducking my story (explaining it element by element to an imaginary figure). the natural conclusion to the situation jumped to me immediately. didnt know that worked but it was p cool. try it sometime maybe? Idk.
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Apr 29, 2015 17:44
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Not sure if this is the right place to ask about this but it seems better than making a new thread. What are people thoughts on the value of writers groups? The only one I know of in my area (Reno, NV) didn't seem all that great and was mostly non fiction writers who didn't really have much interest in the genre I was writing (fantasy). I'm considering trying to start one of my own, but have a ton of questions, mainly, would it even be worth it? If so, are there any general rules for how to set up a quality group?
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Apr 30, 2015 23:53
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Surround yourself with inferiors who praise your work in exchange for even the most perfunctory of attentions. Disregard any incidental criticisms as they obviously don't "get" your work. Don't bother addressing the work of others except to remind them of how much better your work is. Try to stick to moderately unattractive members of the sex you prefer and use the group as a sort of beggar's harem. If any of them get good ideas, convince them the ideas weren't all that good to begin with and then appropriate them for your own work.
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Apr 30, 2015 23:59
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Screaming Idiot posted:Surround yourself with inferiors who praise your work in exchange for even the most perfunctory of attentions. Disregard any incidental criticisms as they obviously don't "get" your work. Don't bother addressing the work of others except to remind them of how much better your work is. Try to stick to moderately unattractive members of the sex you prefer and use the group as a sort of beggar's harem. If any of them get good ideas, convince them the ideas weren't all that good to begin with and then appropriate them for your own work. Oh god, that sounds like half the charity organizations I've worked with.
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May 1, 2015 00:02
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Good, so you should have experience in that regard. Also, don't worry about maintaining proper attendance; a writer's group is there to make YOU a better writer, and if you set up any sort of rigorous schedule then what will you do if inspiration strikes? Good writers don't worry about discipline or consistency -- they live by their own rules, or rather, the lack thereof.
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May 1, 2015 00:08
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Screaming Idiot posted:Good, so you should have experience in that regard. Thanks! Would it make sense to try and limit it to, say, sci-fi/fantasy in this case so that there is a mutual genre interest in the group, or is that a bad idea?
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May 1, 2015 00:16
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Yes, and if possible, try to encourage fanfiction. Time spent using other people's property is time you would otherwise waste coming up with your own. Coming up with your own characters with believable motivation and unique, interesting characteristics is much harder than transplanting characters from other established stories. Furthermore, you have a built-in audience. Have you considered combining the Fallout series with, say, My Little Pony? The disparate genres make for an intriguing juxtaposition, and if you add in a few "controversial" subjects you'll make it even more interesting -- perhaps add some implied rape and pedophilia? The taboo is always ripe for potential inspiration.
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May 1, 2015 00:22
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I don't have a lot of experience with writers' groups outside of Thunderdome, aside from a few abortive writing communities I found online. Making it explicitly a genre fiction group could work. What's the goal of your group though? Are you thinking of just having a space to discuss writing in general or are you thinking about a group that's more focused on feedback on each other's work? Both could probably work, assuming you've got enough interest, but the latter would probably be more challenging just because critique puts people's feelings on the line, and it's much harder to deal with feelings in person than it is IRL. Probably why my attempts to recreate Thunderdome with first graders have failed.
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May 1, 2015 00:57
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Djeser posted:I don't have a lot of experience with writers' groups outside of Thunderdome, aside from a few abortive writing communities I found online. Making it explicitly a genre fiction group could work. Well in my mind at least, it'd be a way for works in progress to be read and get feedback as they're being developed. That's one of the reasons why I'm asking about a genre specific group. I'd imagine you'll get better feedback from somebody who reads and enjoys a genre than from somebody who has no interest in it.
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May 1, 2015 01:17
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Silvergun1000 posted:Well in my mind at least, it'd be a way for works in progress to be read and get feedback as they're being developed. That's one of the reasons why I'm asking about a genre specific group. I'd imagine you'll get better feedback from somebody who reads and enjoys a genre than from somebody who has no interest in it. You get out of it what you put into it. Just like Thunderdome.
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May 1, 2015 02:23
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All writer's groups are terrible.
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May 1, 2015 02:27
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ravenkult posted:All writer's groups are terrible.
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May 1, 2015 02:33
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can someone tell me the aspects of scrivener that make it appealing and the features they find most useful? thanks!
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May 1, 2015 04:26
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LOU BEGAS MUSTACHE posted:can someone tell me the aspects of scrivener that make it appealing and the features they find most useful? I've been using Scrivener for the last two years. It's been indispensable, and I went from 'maybe I should write a book' to 'real agent real publisher' using it. For me these are the two most vital features: You can keep research, timelines, character profiles, pictures, all that kind of bullshit in the same fullscreen app you use to actually work on the manuscript. You can set up split-screen view, so most of your screen is the manuscript and another pane is your outline/'poo poo I need to fix' list/timeline of events/whatever you need. You can keep a notepad of beats you want to hit, or collect a folio of portraits to inspire side characters, and it's all right there in Scrivener with your story. You can traverse high level structure WAY better than in Word. Scrivener allows you to break a manuscript up into acts, chapters, and scenes with just a few clicks. You can keep the plan of your whole novel open on the left, hopping around from Act 1 Chapter 4 Scene 2 to Act 3 Chapter ?? Scene Oh God What Next?!?! without a lot of scrolling or fiddling in menus. I like it a lot.
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May 1, 2015 04:37
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I started writing a novel Sunday night. I went to bed, but couldn't sleep so I started writing a different novel. I never wrote any fiction before then. I've written 8,835 words of this novel since early Monday morning and I've learned that holy poo poo this is the most intense and tiring thing I've done in years. I have the motivations of the main characters figured out, and the villainous characteristics of the baddie. I have scenes and plot points I want to get to. I have a not-great idea for the resolution. All that was easy, in fact it was quite fun. But after an hour and a half of writing it feels like my brain is pooling in my forehead. None of the words I write are flowing freely. I'm putting a huge amount of consideration, even when it only takes a few seconds into anything that speaks about the characters, plot, etc. And I know my writing and words aren't even very good. This is really loving hard. And this isn't a complaint post. I'm loving writing this novel. I care about the characters, even the assholes, and the evilest rear end in a top hat. I'm getting a big kick out of making the protagonist flawed. I'm getting a big kick out of the whole process. It's just incredibly draining. Like nothing else.
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May 1, 2015 04:50
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Most people think it's easy because they have read a book and can write a Facebook status. They don't realize just how much effort goes into making a story effortless to read. It's sort of like watching Jackie Chan doing a kip-up and going "woah, I bet I could do that." Then you try doing a kip-up yourself and you just kinda kick your legs like a dumb baby and knock the wind out of yourself. It's really rewarding to pull off, but the misconception about it being easy is why many writers don't get paid very well. wigglin fucked around with this message at 05:23 on May 1, 2015 |
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May 1, 2015 05:14
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I had no illusions it would be easy. But I didn't think it would be this tiring. I'm plain mentally drained after it, to a surprising degree. I knew I wouldn't be writing 5,000 words a night, I am writing the amount I thought I could write. I didn't think the only thing I'd be capable of is refreshing forums to read inane comments after 1,819 words. I figure my stamina will build up, slowly. This is just a little surprising and I'm not in any way trying to disparage the effort the history of writers have been putting in for millennia.
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May 1, 2015 05:37
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Does Scrivener have or plan to have a cloud application? I want to use it when I'm at work, but I'm not supposed to be writing novels at work... 
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May 1, 2015 05:40
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