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Classtoise posted:This B-plot overtaking the A-plot is fast eroding any sort of interest I had for this comic or praise I had for the writer. We are down at like E or F plot now. A - overarching plot, how to fix the world B - plot of this chapter, Mary's murder spree C - Alison's life and career question, getting a grad advisor D - intersection of B and C, Alison and her friends and how they act to getting drawn into super powered events E - what the gently caress is up with Patrick, very loosely tied to C and A. The need to tie everything together and back on itself is throwing off pacing, training tension created by useful ambiguity, and muddles the whole thing. Yes, every thing matters, but you need to understand the relative strength of who and when you are having signal things, and it is ok to be brief and subtle about it. Particularly since this is a comic and you can do it visually instead of having it spelt out in dialogue.
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Apr 24, 2015 21:15
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I'm starting to think this is a bad comic
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Apr 25, 2015 00:31
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Shoulda called the comic Strong Moral Opinions.
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Apr 25, 2015 02:18
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An economy of words may have proved useful lately.
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Apr 25, 2015 02:20
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Fried Chicken posted:We are down at like E or F plot now. I don't think the muddling of plots really matters. This chapter has become a series of conversations between Alison and various people about the use of power. Mary is killing her starfish. Alison's roommate ignores the bad stuff in front of her in favor of the safe and self-satisfying pursuit of righting big, distant wrongs. Brad is trying to form community. Pintsize clings to the moral authority of government. Paladin optimistically seeks to build a better world via technology. And now Patrick with his moral nihilism. It's an interesting idea for a chapter, and having Mary's blatant use of force function as a trigger for these conversations is OK. Alison is trying to figure out how she wants to use the power she has. I think the problem is that this chapter is way too drat long. 108 pages already, and the lack of a plot structure mean it's hard to tell if we're even getting close to the end. None of the individual scenes have been sluggish, but stacking them one on top of another has created the feeling of a 100 page vignette.
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Apr 25, 2015 02:48
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That's basically how I feel about it, yeah. The chapter's concept is fine, it's just that most of these conversations need to be cut down a bit, and maybe one or two redundant ones removed entirely. The one Alison had with her doctor was a good length, and the one with Brad felt pretty decent but that was only because it was handing us plot details that were both important and interesting and, significantly, giving us a bunch of visuals associated with those details, but she spent too long with Paladin and is now spending too long with this schmendrick. This conversation with Patrick isn't bad in and of itself, but after the lengthy chapter we've already had (over a year at this point), it's too much and we're just staring at his face artistically reflected in glass the whole time. And we've probably got at least two pages left before Alison gets out of there, and she still has to somehow find out where Moonshadow is (or get tracked down by her), so resolution on this plot is probably still at least a few weeks away.
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Apr 25, 2015 03:16
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Yeah, I feel that this conversation with Patrick was important to have and would otherwise be really good, but not right now, especially hot off the heels of Paladin (which seemed to drag on about a week or two too long, but a reread might assauge that opinion). Patrick is a super neat character even if I want him hurled out a window right now but the pacing has been seriously suffering during this story arc.
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Apr 25, 2015 05:05
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I thought Allison trying to work out how to actually save the world was the A-plot. Meaning Patrick's ruminations on fighting problems with faces and when acceptable losses are acceptable are actually the most directly relevant part of this chapter. Or, if you want to take a different tack, the plot of this chapter is "What should we do about Moonshadow?"- I can't see how Patrick going, "Actually, you shouldn't do anything about Moonshadow," is anything less than 100% pertinent to that. e: what Wittgen said
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Apr 25, 2015 12:07
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I think that silent panel was Patrick, who knows more about how people think than anyone else in history, being completely and utterly astounded at how dumb a question it was. "Hey I just freely admitted to murdering a bunch of people just because I could in the middle of a diatribe about my failed bloody attempted coup and lack of respect for human life in general. And now you are randomly asking if I'm a rapist? Where the hell did that even come from?"
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Apr 26, 2015 06:33
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Slowly going through Worm since it was linked here, more interesting than SFP at the moment. Sometimes it is pretty damned stupid though, like the Amelia storyline.
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Apr 26, 2015 07:28
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Jackard posted:Slowly going through Worm since it was linked here, more interesting than SFP at the moment. Yeah I liked it. Like what others have said the ending gets out of hand and I personally preferred the low-key stuff with more room for character interaction rather than the end of world stuff. Endbringers made for great set pieces and holy poo poo moments though. Taylor was a good viewpoint character, but kind of infuriating in that she's so convinced she's 'rational' but she's really just blind to her emotional biases and is just rationalizing the gut choices she's already made, but I think the author was aware of that so it worked out. edit: oh yeah, and Cauldron. Did not care for them. Makes Patrick look like the junior league. Mazerunner fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Apr 27, 2015 |
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Apr 27, 2015 20:29
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I guess her molecular structure isnt the only thing that's dense.
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Apr 28, 2015 09:23
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I don't believe you, Patrick.
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Apr 28, 2015 10:48
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I wasn't completely agreeing with everyone at first, but it's been almost 14 pages since she's arrived at the office, and nothing of consequence is happening, and I don't see anything happening except maybe they stop being friends, and we're probably going to get another two pages of this. This thing needs a "Gets out of the office" email notification sign up.
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Apr 28, 2015 11:57
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The thing is, SFP is a bit of a power fantasy. Not in the normal punching dudes or imagining all the things you can do if you could lift heavy things way, but in the sense that all the navel-gazing and figuring out the world around you that happens in college are CRITICALLY IMPORTANT, not just to you, but the world around you, like the fate of the world around you.
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Apr 28, 2015 15:30
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Patrick is going to monologue some more about atrocities he's committed right?
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Apr 28, 2015 18:11
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Leper Residue posted:I wasn't completely agreeing with everyone at first, but it's been almost 14 pages since she's arrived at the office, and nothing of consequence is happening, and I don't see anything happening except maybe they stop being friends, and we're probably going to get another two pages of this. Part of what's making this chapter suck is that the rate of production is so slow compared to the kind of story they are trying to tell. Like, I've been interested in each page so far, but at two pages a week, we have been in Patrick's office for over a month now. This is a common problem for these kind of high effort per page, long form webcomics.
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Apr 28, 2015 20:00
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Maybe if they do a Patreon, one of the stretch goals will be an increased page count per week. Even going up to three (which many webcomics achieve) would help stuff like this go through a lot faster.
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Apr 28, 2015 20:54
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idonotlikepeas posted:Maybe if they do a Patreon, one of the stretch goals will be an increased page count per week. Even going up to three (which many webcomics achieve) would help stuff like this go through a lot faster. That was a thing on their kickstarter, but they didn't reach that goal.
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Apr 28, 2015 22:52
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Patrick Spens posted:Part of what's making this chapter suck is that the rate of production is so slow compared to the kind of story they are trying to tell. Like, I've been interested in each page so far, but at two pages a week, we have been in Patrick's office for over a month now. This is a common problem for these kind of high effort per page, long form webcomics. I think it can be done. Paranatural went through this same thing where it was just one single event that took for loving ever, but it seems he learned his lesson and is progressing things at a better rate. Hopefully once this is done, Mulligan will realize not do this type of thing anymore and we'll end up with a better comic for it. Or Mulligan won't learn and bleh.
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Apr 30, 2015 12:02
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I forgot about this comic for awhile and just went back and binged-read it, and its a lot better if you do so starting with where she enters the office. Flows a lot better, is a lot more tense, very dense info dumping on Patrick's part but I feel like he's building up to something big. I think maybe Allison is the only being Patrick's afraid of at this point. Whether because he's afraid of his feelings towards her or because he's afraid of her feelings towards him or that she's the only person that can stop him I don't know but he really really wants someone to understand him, which I don't think he has ever had, because why bother explaining yourself to people when you can just tell them what they want to hear and get what you want or need.
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Apr 30, 2015 17:42
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Oracle posted:I forgot about this comic for awhile and just went back and binged-read it, and its a lot better if you do so starting with where she enters the office. Flows a lot better, is a lot more tense, very dense info dumping on Patrick's part but I feel like he's building up to something big. Something I'm curious about is if Alison has enough presence of mind to realize if/when she's being manipulated by him, and just turn his head into a ripe melon. She knows he's got the ultimate power of manipulation, but is she aware enough of her own hunger to catch him trying to manipulate her? It's still a non-zero chance that the Black Folders could be just another piece in a long con.
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May 1, 2015 04:28
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Patrick is Antimony's father
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May 1, 2015 04:46
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I wonder how reinforced that glass is.
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May 1, 2015 09:19
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Hot = good right?
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May 1, 2015 10:13
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Good god, Patrick, are you suicidial or something?  You DO remember she can break you over her knee anywhen she wants, do you?
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May 1, 2015 10:25
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I'm starting to think that this is their version of foreplay. Really though, where does she get this absolute certainty that Patrick is a nice guy from?
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May 1, 2015 10:36
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Mikl posted:Good god, Patrick, are you suicidial or something? Remember what she did to that poor defenseless vending machine the last time Patrick rejected her? RIP Patrick. Regardless, it feels like Patrick has serious emotional problems. He knows everybody to their very bones, but how many people know Patrick? Alison might come the closest, there are many hints that he has feelings for her, but now he's pushing her away as hard as he can.
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May 1, 2015 11:04
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He desperately desires and fears a sympathetic relationship. She knows what it's like to be somebody who is rather distant from the human condition, not in the same way he is but in a similar enough sense. He's trying to push her away, because he's afraid. Unfortunately, he already showed her his trump card. She knows he can say whatever will elicit the reaction he wants, leading her to not trust or act on her immediate reaction to his words. I hope she's about to call him out on this.
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May 1, 2015 11:14
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So did she headbutt him or what? The action is so poorly conveyed. Seriously, I have no idea what's causing the WHOOMPH. Is it Allison? Logically it should be her since there's nothing else besides her and Patrick in that panel. But her posture isn't the posture of someone who just dealt a blow...
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May 1, 2015 11:44
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Yeah that last panel isn't well-conveyed at all. It doesn't look physical, maybe she's chewing him out in her head and he obviously can't avoid it?
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May 1, 2015 12:03
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T.G. Xarbala posted:Yeah that last panel isn't well-conveyed at all. It doesn't look physical, maybe she's chewing him out in her head and he obviously can't avoid it? She backhanded him into the wall. She pulls him close, he is getting overwhelmed feeling her emotions (he starts crying with her), he pulls "you know nothing Alison Greene", she leans back and raises her arm, he continues mouthing off so she backhands him with the arm she had just raised, last panel both her arms are down having completed the swing and he collides with the wall
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May 1, 2015 13:03
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Makes sense. Guess that just puts it in the "poorly conveyed" box then.
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May 1, 2015 13:18
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Leper Residue posted:I wasn't completely agreeing with everyone at first, but it's been almost 14 pages since she's arrived at the office, and nothing of consequence is happening, and I don't see anything happening except maybe they stop being friends, and we're probably going to get another two pages of this. "If you want Alison to continue listening to Patrick wax poetic about the nature of human life and cry about how his powers make him unable to stop listening like any normal human being with normal levels of normal hearing can do, press A!" "If you want her to return to her attempts to figure out who is funding her friends murderous crusade with a quickly diminishing list of reasons why someone is allowed to be killed, press B!" *Leper Residue presses B* "You have selected...A!" "No I didn't!" "I'm almost positive you did!"
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May 1, 2015 14:18
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Classtoise posted:"If you want Alison to continue listening to Patrick wax poetic about the nature of human life and cry about how his powers make him unable to stop listening like any normal human being with normal levels of normal hearing can do, press A!" Hahaha, eh, I was so busy trying to skip through the conversation I wasn't paying attention, stupid owl. I'm kind of hoping we get her to go through a rant like she did with Cleaver (I think that was his name, don't remember even though I just reread the series like a month ago). Like she just goes apeshit and ranting at him the he's an idiot. And this is all done in one more page and she storms out of the office and now we are done. But I do want so see angry Alison again.
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May 1, 2015 14:51
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Fried Chicken posted:She backhanded him into the wall. She pulls him close, he is getting overwhelmed feeling her emotions (he starts crying with her), he pulls "you know nothing Alison Greene", she leans back and raises her arm, he continues mouthing off so she backhands him with the arm she had just raised, last panel both her arms are down having completed the swing and he collides with the wall I assumed she did some sort of super-strength exhale thingy.
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May 1, 2015 18:21
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She went super saiyan. Also read up to Echidna in Worm, and the story just went on this bullshit derail, to the point where I'm skimming it until it gets back on track. This is even dumber than the Amelia scenes. Jackard fucked around with this message at 19:36 on May 1, 2015 |
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May 1, 2015 18:54
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Male Man posted:I assumed she did some sort of super-strength exhale thingy. That's what it looks like to me. The second-last panel feels like such a non sequitur though. Like even if he's responding to something she thought, why would he say that? An elaborate and possibly suicidal act of self-sabotage?
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May 1, 2015 19:04
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Carrasco posted:That's what it looks like to me. Maybe he's being mind-controlled.
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May 1, 2015 19:21
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Carrasco posted:That's what it looks like to me. Dude probably panicked, and said the one thing he thought would be enough to shock Allison into getting some distance between them in a hurry. For all his bluster about being some emotion-less mastermind, the dude doesn't seem to have a way to deal with emotional intimacy. As nice as it is to have someone he can talk actually talk to about stuff, it probably terrifies him that there is someone who knows enough about him that they can call him on his bluff. He is probably used to being able to change someone's opinion/behavior by saying just the right thing, but Allison has wised up to that by now. It probably didn't help that he flat out told her about that. All his previous attempts failed, so he decided to say the worst thing he could think of. I mean if this were purely a misdirection, this wouldn't be necessary since he had already gotten the subject away from whatever activities he may be involved in. If he just wanted some distance and was thinking clearly, all he would have to say is that he wasn't comfortable with the situation and needed time/space and he should know Allison well enough that she'd respect that. So his response really doesn't make sense unless it some emotional knee-jerk kind of thing.
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May 2, 2015 05:28
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