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Bugamol posted:Interviewing is stressful, time consuming, and can be very depressing. You need to be ready to continue to face these ups and downs without letting it reflect poorly on the work you're doing at your current job. Bold: I never claimed to be? Also I wasn't counting on any of these places fleshing out. I think I've brought this up before but I've been through this process plenty of times. I was in the worst employment county in the nation for years. This doesn't phase me at all beyond being a little annoyed. I'm already very impressed that I've gotten followup offers. When I first was breaking into the field I was applying at places for months without even getting a single interview in most cases. Knyteguy fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Apr 29, 2015 |
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Apr 29, 2015 00:45
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Don't take their company's poor decision or planning processes personally. I'd have offed myself already if I cared about my company loving things up. Ugh the reams of paper per week! Keep lookin for local or remote jobs. Let the ones that don't pick you slide off your back.
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Apr 29, 2015 01:27
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If you have a webcam you could offer to skype interview with them as well - I'm generally happy to do that as an interviewer if it's easier.
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Apr 29, 2015 02:51
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Knyteguy posted:I could go into work Friday I didn't consider that. I may just spend the day taking the dogs to the lake or something though I'm sure they'd love that. I'm just grouchy right now. What a waste of my time and theirs. Do not burn a vacation day for no reason right now. Especially if you might want to take more soon for other interviews. Make up an excuse as to why you cancelled "oh the person I was visiting got sick" or some such, if anyone asks. Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:If you have a webcam you could offer to skype interview with them as well - I'm generally happy to do that as an interviewer if it's easier. Don't bother. gently caress this company. There are no 2nd chances in this game, and if you give them one, you look desperate. Are you? No.
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Apr 29, 2015 03:39
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PTO is very precious when you have a baby. Save it for when you really need it.
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Apr 29, 2015 03:58
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lord1234 posted:Don't bother. gently caress this company. There are no 2nd chances in this game, and if you give them one, you look desperate. Are you? No. Agreed. No I'm not desperate at all it gives me a stability right now I haven't had with previous job searches. I've mostly just up and quit without looking for something new first. Regarding the PTO I have 65 hours right now including sick time. What should I consider a safe buffer? Vacation and sick time are pretty much interchangeable per my boss. They just build at different rates. Also thanks for the support guys. I'm glad that it potentially didn't work out upon reflection. I wasn't planning on taking a potential offer or anything, but it's extremely important that I remember what I'm looking for in a job. I don't want to take the offer from the first company that offers me $20,000 more than what I make now when I could hold out for something better. Moving forward I think for my own sanity I'll hold off posting too much about job opportunities until they get to an offer, or maybe if I'm flying somewhere and the tickets are actually booked. Like Bugamol said this is probably going to take awhile, so no point in updating for every single thing. Knyteguy fucked around with this message at 06:29 on Apr 29, 2015 |
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Apr 29, 2015 06:11
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Knyteguy posted:Regarding the PTO I have 65 hours right now including sick time. What should I consider a safe buffer? Vacation and sick time are pretty much interchangeable per my boss. They just build at different rates. You have a new child. Expect all PTO to go to "baby is sick" days this year. The bigger the buffer you have, the better. If you think "I need a mental health day", then think "well the weekend is coming". Especially if you want to take a day or two off to interview.
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Apr 29, 2015 13:06
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The first winter with my baby he got sick. A lot. It seemed every couple weeks either my husband or I was home with him. And sometimes we got the bonus of catching whatever crud he had! My kiddo was born in June 2013 and winter 2013-2014 was horrible. This winter was better. We were just home with him Mon and Tuesday though this week because he was sick, but that was the only time, maybe second time, since Nov.
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Apr 29, 2015 15:49
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lord1234 posted:You have a new child. Expect all PTO to go to "baby is sick" days this year. The bigger the buffer you have, the better. If you think "I need a mental health day", then think "well the weekend is coming". By the way, did you ever lay down some ground rules with your sister regarding sick days?
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Apr 29, 2015 17:04
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Robo Boogie Bot posted:By the way, did you ever lay down some ground rules with your sister regarding sick days? I asked her just now. She said she'll watch our kid if he's sick, and same with her kid. "They'll get each other sick but that's life." per her. I agree with this. I think this comes with the assumption "unless it's something serious."
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Apr 29, 2015 17:22
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Knyteguy posted:I think ... assumption ... These words should not be used in this situation. Talk it over, draw up a contract if you have to. Make sure everyone is on the same page.
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Apr 29, 2015 17:47
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I'm going to speak with my sister about that pay raise as well. Now it turns out my grandmother is going to watch our son on Mondays, my mom has been doing it on Fridays, and my sister is no longer giving me rides to work and home due to adding another kid she's sitting. I'm thinking we'll keep it at $350 instead of $400. I think that's a pretty fair price considering the time spent. She gets half days pretty often, too. The company I'm doing a final interview for tomorrow sent me over their health/dental/vision benefits package. I think it's pretty good, but I haven't gotten much time to check it out in-depth. I'll post details later as well as a comparison vs our current plan. From the new place one is an HSA, the other is a standard low deductible plan.
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Apr 29, 2015 21:36
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Knyteguy posted:I'm going to speak with my sister about that pay raise as well. Now it turns out my grandmother is going to watch our son on Mondays, my mom has been doing it on Fridays, and my sister is no longer giving me rides to work and home due to adding another kid she's sitting. I'm thinking we'll keep it at $350 instead of $400. I think that's a pretty fair price considering the time spent. She gets half days pretty often, too. So pretty much the situation has completely changed in a matter of weeks from what you and your sister planned out before the baby was born and because nothing was concrete beforehand it's now even more completely wishy washy stuff being made up on the fly.
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Apr 29, 2015 22:03
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Rudager posted:So pretty much the situation has completely changed in a matter of weeks from what you and your sister planned out before the baby was born and because nothing was concrete beforehand it's now even more completely wishy washy stuff being made up on the fly. No, we planned for my sister to always watch on Fridays because my mom could be unreliable, we never agreed to rides (plus I want the exercise), and my grandmother has nothing to do with my sister watching him ultimately. It's pretty much exactly the same. I just don't think we're at a point where a raise is necessary anymore.
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Apr 29, 2015 22:12
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 Reminder that May 1 is TOMORROW and you still haven't "officially confirmed" the May budget yet!Horking Delight posted:$100 to the charity of your choice if you come under budget for three months in a row, starting in May, budgets posted before the first of the month and spending posted within 2 weeks after the end of the month. Referee fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Apr 30, 2015 |
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Apr 30, 2015 20:36
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IllegallySober posted:
Yep going to give it one more look over as soon as I can. If I can't though then the previous posted budget will be considered official. Just in case. Had a final interview today with the company that sent benefits over. The recruiter was really trying to talk me down saying "well this is high..." blah blah. There's a couple more candidates who want less, but I answered all 6-7 technical questions correctly, so we'll see. I feel like they might be discounting my general developer experience when X++ is just a glorified scripting language. Plus they said they're concerned about a lack of degree (but I answered the technical questions correctly so idgi). I should find out today for sure where this final interview goes. They want to choose someone today. No worries either way I'm giving myself a B+ on the interview, so probably my best yet. In the spirit of not talking about every opportunity, instead I'll try to update more with the general process. I have 4 companies that the recruiter thinks I would be a good fit for in the Silicon Valley area (1 in Stockton which I don't think I've heard good things about), and two in LA. I have a lot of family in SoCal so it has more potential than most places. Probably third to SV. I start my first interview today with one in LA. I won't update unless any of the opportunities move forward though. I haven't had a chance to look for remote opportunities since this recruiter is keeping me so busy.
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Apr 30, 2015 20:58
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Does this recruiter give a poo poo if you are the right fit for a role or not? It sounds like they are throwing you at 10,000 different companies which isn't really something a quality recruiter does.
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Apr 30, 2015 21:19
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ufsteph posted:Does this recruiter give a poo poo if you are the right fit for a role or not? It sounds like they are throwing you at 10,000 different companies which isn't really something a quality recruiter does. To give you an idea of the recruiting company, they have an open bar the first Thursday of the month, every month. I imagine it's to forget the lovely previous month. These guys work 12 hour days who knows how many days a week, and the bulk of their pay must be contingent upon hire (and their offices are based in SF and NYC so it's expensive). Unfortunately these guys are the top of this particular industry. I'm not going to sacrifice any of my own happiness or total lifetime pay, but it sucks because nearly everyone I've talked to there seems genuinely nice. On a positive note at least I'm getting the interview experience. That interview was with 3 people over a Skype chat (where I couldn't see them, but they could see me) and I didn't really have any anxiety or anything. Progress!
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Apr 30, 2015 21:31
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Knyteguy posted:Had a final interview today with the company that sent benefits over. The recruiter was really trying to talk me down saying "well this is high..." blah blah. There's a couple more candidates who want less, but I answered all 6-7 technical questions correctly, so we'll see.  If the company is looking at its decision as, "within the group of candidates who pass the minimum bar, choose the cheapest" instead of, "within the group of candidates that have a reasonable price range/seniority level, choose the best", you should probably run away.
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Apr 30, 2015 21:52
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Cicero posted:
Yea I'm about 95% no right now if the offer comes. I agree completely with what you've said. Of course the actual offer is what will finalize the decision. Also on top of what you mentioned it's business casual, it's cubicles, I imagine the internet filters will be strict (one of the companies I consult for blocks Youtube, which is what I use for music all day), and it's far away. What kills me is the recruiter has asked me like 10 times what my salary wants are. Why would my answer change in less than 24 hours? With the new recruiter yesterday I just said my current total compensation is $95,000 and I won't be disclosing my base salary ala the input here. He was actually totally cool with it. edit: and I know I shouldn't disclose my salary wants either. That's something I also did differently with the new recruiter. I simply said that I'm not qualified to come up with salary numbers, so I'm interested in what companies come up with to value me or something like that. Knyteguy fucked around with this message at 22:08 on Apr 30, 2015 |
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Apr 30, 2015 22:01
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Knyteguy posted:Yea I'm about 95% no right now if the offer comes. I agree completely with what you've said. Of course the actual offer is what will finalize the decision. Also on top of what you mentioned it's business casual, it's cubicles, I imagine the internet filters will be strict (one of the companies I consult for blocks Youtube, which is what I use for music all day), and it's far away. Whatever you do, don't lie about salary history. You may be called to prove past/current pay (pay stub usually), and some companies are more rigorous than others. I have retracted offers to people who can lied badly about their situation, and in the end could not justify the six figure salary they said was comparable when it wasn't. On the flip side I am probably more transparent than most, but it has made stepping up my income, in hindsight, pretty easy.
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Apr 30, 2015 22:08
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I would be pretty skeptical if a prospective employer asked me for a paystub and would be more inclined to just use them as leverage rather than take the position even if I gave it to them. If you're gonna lie, lie about other offers/prospects, not your current position. I definitely wouldn't show one company's offer letter to a different company's recruiter. You shouldn't have to do either though and you probably shouldn't be telling them your current pay anyway.
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Apr 30, 2015 22:41
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:I would be pretty skeptical if a prospective employer asked me for a paystub and would be more inclined to just use them as leverage rather than take the position even if I gave it to them. I think level, industry, and pay grade come into play here. I have actually used things like this as negotiation points (both sides) very successfully. Pay stubs are common proof of employment, and if I am going to pay someone more than industry or market value (we are talking A Player here), I sure want documentation that they have been at a certain level and are worth going above market for.
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Apr 30, 2015 22:50
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:I would be pretty skeptical if a prospective employer asked me for a paystub and would be more inclined to just use them as leverage rather than take the position even if I gave it to them. I don't think this is too uncommon. If you are asking way above what their typical pay range would be or what they consider "market rate" and you claim to be making more already it's a "prove it" sort of scenario. I've heard instances of this happening from small to large companies. Don't ever outright lie in an interview on something that can be definitely proven (ie employment history, degree, etc.) . It's a good way to get on a poo poo list and if you do it the wrong company you could theoretically get blackballed from an industry (probably unlikely). Also I've heard the no degree thing is easier to get around in the "tech hubs" (SV, etc.), so you may want to center your focus there. Some companies are pretty anal about degrees, MBAs, certs. Others tend to not give a poo poo. It's hit and miss.
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Apr 30, 2015 23:18
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Ultimate Mango posted:I think level, industry, and pay grade come into play here. I have actually used things like this as negotiation points (both sides) very successfully. Pay stubs are common proof of employment, and if I am going to pay someone more than industry or market value (we are talking A Player here), I sure want documentation that they have been at a certain level and are worth going above market for. If someone asked me for a paystub I'd tell them to gently caress off. I get paid according to the market and the job, not whatever history I personally had.
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Apr 30, 2015 23:21
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Ultimate Mango posted:I think level, industry, and pay grade come into play here. I have actually used things like this as negotiation points (both sides) very successfully. Pay stubs are common proof of employment, and if I am going to pay someone more than industry or market value (we are talking A Player here), I sure want documentation that they have been at a certain level and are worth going above market for. That's stupid. If you want them and they want a certain salary to work for you, why should anything else matter?
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Apr 30, 2015 23:31
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egoslicer posted:If someone asked me for a paystub I'd tell them to gently caress off. I get paid according to the market and the job, not whatever history I personally had. What if the difference between producing said documentation and not producing said documentation was worth $20k a year in negotiations? $50k? What if the pay stub was the only way they could verify employment? Inept posted:That's stupid. If you want them and they want a certain salary to work for you, why should anything else matter? It depends on how strict your HR and finance people are. What are the pay bands? What does it take to hire someone who is totally worth it, but above the pay band for the role? Knyteguy is looking to get up towards a six figure job, and strange things may happen when the pay gets in that range.
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May 1, 2015 00:38
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Ultimate Mango posted:What if the difference between producing said documentation and not producing said documentation was worth $20k a year in negotiations? $50k? What if the pay stub was the only way they could verify employment I work in SV at the kind of six figure jobs he would be aiming for. I've never had anyone ask me for a paystub, or heard of it happening. It may, but engineers are extremely sought after and companies jump through hoops, not employees or candidates. Unless you are a junior level engineer. Also no one really cares about verifying employment as much. Also I don't see how that would be the only way to verify employment, but I'd just redact my pay info if I had to. It's really easy to test for skills, at least somewhat. If I say I'm a senior level SRE, they can give me scenarios and challenges to test that. egoslicer fucked around with this message at 00:45 on May 1, 2015 |
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May 1, 2015 00:42
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I've interviewed without even giving the name of my current company before, and it hasn't been a hindrance in negotiations(I had to explain why and had a good reason). Do you think there are people who'd lie about where they work but wouldn't photoshop a pay stub?
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May 1, 2015 00:49
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I will end the derail here. I suppose I am used to working with a different sort of employer and a different flavour of engineer. And yes, people will try to lie and hide stuff in all sorts of ways. Employers general don't really want to pay people more than they need to, and every place I have worked and managed is hesitant to give big raises to people coming in, even if they are underpaid where they are. Maybe we just need an  smiley. Knyteguy, good luck with the new job. Mo money, mo problems.
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May 1, 2015 00:54
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Ultimate Mango posted:I will end the derail here. I suppose I am used to working with a different sort of employer and a different flavour of engineer. The SV tech area may just be different than other places. Companies out here have to compete hard for people, as there just isn't enough qualified engineers. Anyone trying to be cheap on salary will just get passed by or only get poo poo engineers.
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May 1, 2015 00:56
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OK thanks for the back and forth. I like the "total compensation" idea because it's not lying. It's not all tangible in-my-pocket dollars, but there is value in having my own office, remote capabilities, etc. Also I lied I can't help but talk about the opportunities. Just had an interview in LA, and they want to Skype with me for a second (final). They felt I was strong technically with a couple gaps missing (compared to their previous 8-yr developer). The recruiter estimated the salary to be $105,000-$115,000. Big jump, especially since they don't know my current salary. C grade on the interview. Obviously there's a good chance that this doesn't go anywhere. The final interview today I was told I would hear back from today or tomorrow, but it looks like it's tomorrow. No worries on that one either way. Final May Budget:  Oh and shoot we got the big hospital bills! We're still waiting on the anesthesiologist for the epidural. ~$300 for the delivery ~$2,800 for the hospital ~$600 for the false labor $100 for rounding Probably another $1,000 for the epidural $500 for whatever we may be missing --- $5,300 (hopefully a high estimate) Cool we're came under budget. We have $6,000 in HSA funds. It nearly drains it but at least we didn't go into debt for the birth. Thanks Goons! No way we would have accomplished that without all of your help. On to the charity month.
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May 1, 2015 02:11
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egoslicer posted:I work in SV at the kind of six figure jobs he would be aiming for. I've never had anyone ask me for a paystub, or heard of it happening. It may, but engineers are extremely sought after and companies jump through hoops, not employees or candidates. Unless you are a junior level engineer. Although I agree with you, I'd like to point out that Knyteguy is relatively junior -- he doesn't have a degree and only has a couple years experience at one place (and it's consulting) so it's not super obvious whether or not he has the skills a prospective employer might need. He didn't link his real github or linkedin, so if his portfolio's a little sparse (I know mine is) But yeah, the SV tech area is very different from everywhere else (aside from other tech hubs I guess), and the money being thrown around right now is absurd. If he doesn't disclose how underpaid he is, he SHOULD be able to get an offer for around market rate for someone with his experience (and the employer shouldn't know that he's getting a big raise). He shouldn't lie obviously, but 95k "total compensation" is totally possible if he's counting benefits, 401k matching, and any other perks in his compensation package, and is in fact what someone in the thread explicitly told him to do. If the recruiter keeps pressing for a number, Knyteguy, just tell him you'll accept $200k base salary, but for anything less than that, you'd want to know a little more about the company and work environment before taking an offer (or just say how much salary you're looking for depends heavily on the company and the work environment and things like benefits and hours). Good job on getting a budget! Now, all you have to do is stick to it. Colin Mockery fucked around with this message at 02:25 on May 1, 2015 |
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May 1, 2015 02:20
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Horking Delight posted:Although I agree with you, I'd like to point out that Knyteguy is relatively junior -- he doesn't have a degree and only has a couple years experience at one place (and it's consulting) so it's not super obvious whether or not he has the skills a prospective employer might need. He didn't link his real github or linkedin, so if his portfolio's a little sparse (I know mine is) This is a good post.
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May 1, 2015 02:28
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Horking Delight posted:Although I agree with you, I'd like to point out that Knyteguy is relatively junior -- he doesn't have a degree and only has a couple years experience at one place (and it's consulting) so it's not super obvious whether or not he has the skills a prospective employer might need. He didn't link his real github or linkedin, so if his portfolio's a little sparse (I know mine is) Even relatively junior he has specific experience in a niche that (although I have literally never heard of it) seems in demand. The way the market is now a relatively brief technical interview and a couple chats with potential coworkers should be enough to get him an offer. I've rarely submitted a cv, don't have a linkedin profile and I've never been asked about my degree or my past compensation. Most of my interviews (and I just started a new job monday) don't even care about specific jobs I've had beyond what I learned from them. Some of the posts in this thread only seem applicable if you're interviewing with IBM in 1973. Degrees and past jobs will get you interviews (at some places) but jobs that care about those things are probably really bad at evaluating talent and you should think twice about whether you want to work at one of them. There's way more jobs than competent people out there and everyone should be holding out for interesting work at companies that are great to work for. Or giant piles of money.
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May 1, 2015 02:39
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the talent deficit posted:Even relatively junior he has specific experience in a niche that (although I have literally never heard of it) seems in demand. The way the market is now a relatively brief technical interview and a couple chats with potential coworkers should be enough to get him an offer. I've rarely submitted a cv, don't have a linkedin profile and I've never been asked about my degree or my past compensation. Most of my interviews (and I just started a new job monday) don't even care about specific jobs I've had beyond what I learned from them. Some of the posts in this thread only seem applicable if you're interviewing with IBM in 1973. Degrees and past jobs will get you interviews (at some places) but jobs that care about those things are probably really bad at evaluating talent and you should think twice about whether you want to work at one of them. There's way more jobs than competent people out there and everyone should be holding out for interesting work at companies that are great to work for. Or giant piles of money. Oh, sure, I agree completely with all that. I just wanted to remind people that he is relatively junior and appears to be largely self-taught. That doesn't mean he should put up with having to jump through hoops or any of the dumb poo poo recruiters do or anything, and I think his niche knowledge is a pretty good selling point because I think most new grads or whoever else would probably want to work on the latest new, cool thing instead. But I think from a career standpoint, if he wants to do this forever, he (and we) should keep that in mind and approach positions as a more junior dev would -- stuff like keeping an eye out for teams he could join where there'd be someone he could learn from, places where career advancement (and the accompanying raises/promotions!) would be possible, etc. I'm not convinced now's the best time for it (seriously: NEW BABY) or anything, but it should definitely be something to keep in the back of people's minds while actually planning a career move.
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May 1, 2015 03:11
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Horking Delight posted:
I actually disagree here. If he's applying to a place that's not going to pay him based on his experience, skills, and qualifications, but rather on his previous salary, then he should just walk. Self-taught or not, he's cleaning up on interviews. Knyteguy, next time you're in a situation where someone demands your current salary, and won't move on until you disclose, end the interview. Stand up, say thanks, and exit. You've clearly got skills in demand, and saying no to one company certainly isn't going to stop you. If they back down, great, if they don't, it honestly wasn't worth your time to begin with.
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May 1, 2015 04:15
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Knyteguy posted:Final May Budget: Quoting this for challenge purposes. Good luck, Knyteguy!
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May 1, 2015 09:45
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Knyteguy posted:Oh and shoot we got the big hospital bills! We're still waiting on the anesthesiologist for the epidural. No one seems to be giving you kudos for this, so I will. You planned ahead, and had money sitting aside for this. And look, you have no stress about these bills because you were saving for them! This is budgeting! And you're doing it! Woo!
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May 1, 2015 15:46
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Knyteguy posted:~$300 for the delivery No you didn't. Knyteguy posted:The $3,701 quote covers 48 hours of stay, the care of her and the baby while in the hospital (nurses only I assume) & a standard vaginal birth. The woman who quoted my wife that quote said it could be less, but it most likely won't be more. I'm not going to get my hopes up, but we may only go into debt a thousand or so. Maybe less. Knyteguy posted:Plus $4,195 in HSA. Pregnancy bills was an HSA refund from my wife's obstetrician moving practices, so that will be spent as soon as the hospital gets us our bill yes. It is a savings category however. You came in over budget. You luckily have enough money to pay for it, but you didn't come in under budget. You're actually $1,600 more expensive than your original quote and $1,105 over your HSA balance on March 2nd. The reason you were able to afford it is because you are sticking to your budget, which is great, but this is another example of "things are more expensive than Knyteguy thinks and he quickly forgets that".
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May 1, 2015 16:23
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