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xthetenth posted:Yes you should be firing AP. Shoot the guts and move to where it really wrecks dudes. Sometimes HE is ok. The Warspite has really good belt armor but a fat superstructure that is good at catching HE shells. Some battleships are just too thick to damage with cruiser AP, but HE only really works better with the Warspite.
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May 1, 2015 02:43
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JuffoWup posted:So am I right looking at the stats that getting near a warsprite with planes might be a bad idea. Especially if there is any other ship with aa near it? 4x8 40mm guns doesn't look like something you want to get near.
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May 1, 2015 03:01
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   Wow, the Hatsuharu is a good ship! (no its not) I just got a bit lucky and caught a bunch of pubbies in Torpedo Alley. 1 torp plus a salvo of HE to finish the enemy Aoba, 2 torps to kill the Cleveland (which beached itself dodging my first torp salvo that was actually intended for the Aoba), a bunch of HE and then a parting torp to kill the enemy Hatsuharu. Then I wandered across the map and landed 2 more torps on the Kongo for my last kill. Also, I was mistaken. The Hatsuharu doesn't get long lances, OF COURSE NOT. Just a tiny 3 knot speed bump to torps, and the crushing disappointment that the Fubuki doesn't get them either. At least it gets an extra triple torpedo tube to make up for it. It takes a whole 60 seconds for a torpedo salvo launched at 10km to reach its full range. If you launch torps at that distance, expecting your opponent to not maneuver at all in those 60 seconds, you're probably way too optimistic to play DDs. Hazdoc fucked around with this message at 13:40 on May 1, 2015 |
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May 1, 2015 13:36
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Speed settings for torps would be pretty cool. Long lances did most of their work by being hellish fast at close range, not super long range with decent speed. (I think they're actually giving fastest speed and longest range from the settings.
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May 1, 2015 13:55
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Just out of interest what are peoples hit rates like with main batteries? Mine is really low just now ~45% and I feel I need to go back to boat gunnery school. I'm currently playing in some T4's just now so if there's anyone else playing around that level on EU server and wants to detachment up that would be cool, I'm AramoroA on boats.
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May 1, 2015 14:07
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Aramoro posted:Just out of interest what are peoples hit rates like with main batteries? Mine is really low just now ~45% and I feel I need to go back to boat gunnery school. I'm currently playing in some T4's just now so if there's anyone else playing around that level on EU server and wants to detachment up that would be cool, I'm AramoroA on boats. How do you see your accuracy? I know with BB's which I don't even attempt to play anymore I'm probably sub 25%. :< Also; I wonder how concealment numbers are calculated? The Clemson has Concealment of 90 with a visbility of 7km and the Minekaze has a Concealment of 95 with a visibility of 5.9km. I'm wishing it was the other way around with the Clemson's awful torp range. Anything smaller then a BB turns and run's away from my Torpedo's and the drat things run out of gas before they can close the gap. *Edit- Oh my lawd, IJN get's 20km Torpedo's?! NuckmasterJ fucked around with this message at 14:36 on May 1, 2015 |
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May 1, 2015 14:27
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NuckmasterJ posted:How do you see your accuracy? I know with BB's which I don't even attempt to play anymore I'm probably sub 25%. :< On your personal stats on the website it tells you, I hit with 10% of my torps! It doesn't split out per ship just per armament. I don't think it's even splitting out Torps from destroyers and torps from bombers. Also I don't know how it works out secondary armament, mine is 18% but i'm not sure how to improve that, or even if I want to.
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May 1, 2015 14:33
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NuckmasterJ posted:How do you see your accuracy? I know with BB's which I don't even attempt to play anymore I'm probably sub 25%. :< Concealment is just a thing they decided on for whatever ship you have. Japanese DDs typically have insane concealment and longer range torps, at the cost of slow firing guns with terrible turn rate. American DDs don't have quite as good concealment, and their torps are shorter ranged, but their guns are far, far superior. Don't rely on your torps as an American DD, get into the groove of gunfighting enemy destroyers and cruisers a tier down from you, then using torps if they try to get closer, or against enemy BBs you've closed in on.
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May 1, 2015 14:52
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 Now that's a daily. The low-ish credit income compared to the xp is because a Sims managed to get teamkilled by me and I am absolutely not sorry about that. We double-teamed a Lexington. He fired his torps from 3km and missed everything. My spread tore up the Lexington and the one torp from it that had missed is exactly the one he runs straight into 20 seconds after launch as he passes by the sinking wreck of the Lexington. 
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May 1, 2015 15:32
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Magni posted:
101 hits in a DD? drat, driving IJN DD's I barely shoot the guns. Zip in, torp torp torp try to find an island to zip around. Maybe I need to try out Freedom ships.
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May 1, 2015 16:18
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NuckmasterJ posted:101 hits in a DD? drat, driving IJN DD's I barely shoot the guns. Zip in, torp torp torp try to find an island to zip around. Maybe I need to try out Freedom ships. Since they were patched they are at least vaguely okay, so using now is fine as a secondary tactic. I beat a Hatsuharu in a Mutsuki, after I'd "upgraded" it to the two turret version, in a close range gunnery duel because he absolutely refused to use his. Instead, he kept trying to torpedo me. Incidentally, the Hatsuharu actually has somewhat decent guns, unlike the Mutsuki, so it was doubly stupid. Admittedly I've also mostly switched over to AP for IJN destroyers unless I'm shooting at a CV, BB, or CA. They have a low enough rate of fire that I just don't feel HE rounds really do enough damage to realistically kill a target in a reasonable timeframe, while with AP all it takes is a few good shots to sink another destroyer. For rapid fire gunds HE can be good though.
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May 1, 2015 17:01
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Yeah, the guns on later IJN DDs are somewhat decent for getting enemy DDs off your back and lighting people on fire if you're sure that you're spotted anyway. They still need at least somewhat faster turret turn time imo though. Some of the drat things turn as slow as BB turrets and that's just dumb as hell.NuckmasterJ posted:101 hits in a DD? drat, driving IJN DD's I barely shoot the guns. Zip in, torp torp torp try to find an island to zip around. Maybe I need to try out Freedom ships. US DDs later are basically all about murdering other DDs and being an annoying rear end in a top hat constantly shooting bigger ships that are busy shooting your bigger ships. The torps are only there for suicde runs, nuking carriers if you get close enough and ambushes. The Mahan can already hammer out 80 5-inch shells a minute (100/min before the hull upgrade that removes one gun). The Gearing up at tier 10 goes full bullshit with that - it has three twin-gun turrets (same model as the secondaries on the Cleveland, Baltimore and Des Moines and the primary battery on the Atlanta) with 3 second reloads. And they turn so fast that you can take the reload upgrade module without losing much of anything. 
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May 1, 2015 17:47
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Magni posted:US DDs later are basically all about murdering other DDs and being an annoying rear end in a top hat constantly shooting bigger ships that are busy shooting your bigger ships. The torps are only there for suicde runs, nuking carriers if you get close enough and ambushes. The Mahan can already hammer out 80 5-inch shells a minute (100/min before the hull upgrade that removes one gun). The Gearing up at tier 10 goes full bullshit with that - it has three twin-gun turrets (same model as the secondaries on the Cleveland, Baltimore and Des Moines and the primary battery on the Atlanta) with 3 second reloads. And they turn so fast that you can take the reload upgrade module without losing much of anything. Oh no my turrets still turn all the way around in under ten seconds, what doooo. Also four guns up front is amazing.
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May 1, 2015 17:50
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I'm kinda lookig forward to german DDs. They're probably going to be current US DDs taken to even more of an extreme when it comes to the high-tier paperships. Big, comparatively sluggish, crap torpedos. But gun firepower close to that of a light cruiser (IIRC the most likely tier 10 candidate has 4 twin-gun 5-in turrets with slower rotation and higher shell velocity than the american 5-inchers) and bullshit AA for a destroyer.
Magni fucked around with this message at 19:45 on May 1, 2015 |
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May 1, 2015 18:34
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Isn't all Destroyer AA relatively bullshit? My fully upgraded tier VI (Fletcher, I think) has nice AA for it's size, but seems rather pointless, considering the way this game is played. WWII DD's got all that extra AA to fight off Kamikaze's.* I've even considered going back to the original layout for the extra gun. That said, I think when this game gets it's version of clan wars, interlocking AA fire from cruisers and American DD's would shred enemy planes. *Maybe IJN carriers are going to have Kamikaze options. That would make them hilarious, and the AA for more needed for destroyers.
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May 1, 2015 20:08
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MoraleHazard posted:Isn't all Destroyer AA relatively bullshit? My fully upgraded tier VI (Fletcher, I think) has nice AA for it's size, but seems rather pointless, considering the way this game is played. WWII DD's got all that extra AA to fight off Kamikaze's.* I've even considered going back to the original layout for the extra gun. If Wargaming is too P.C. to put the Imperial Japanese flag on their ships, they most certainly will not ever make kamikazis an option. E: AND THEY SHOULDN'T, holy poo poo people Sidesaddle Cavalry fucked around with this message at 22:32 on May 1, 2015 |
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May 1, 2015 20:26
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Sidesaddle Cavalry posted:USN destroyer AA gets quite nice against non tier-X planes. Of course, shooting at planes makes DDs very visible to the planes, so it's not a good idea anyways in typical pub games where you're mostly on your own. The exception to this is ripping single scout planes out of the sky so that battleship around the corner doesn't spot you. If WG won't put the giant Swastika on the Bismark I doubt the IJN will get Kamikaze planes. :<
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May 1, 2015 20:34
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What I meant was that high-tier KM paper-DD will likely get *more* AA firepower than any DD currently in the game. Radar-directed 55mm autocannons (Gerät 58), 128mm DP guns and I think either 20mm or 37mm autocannons were part of those build plans. And yeah, WG has already come out and made it clear that kamikazes are not going to happen, period. In other news, I kinda like the Benson. It's a Sims with better concealment and way better torpedos basically. Magni fucked around with this message at 21:00 on May 1, 2015 |
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May 1, 2015 20:49
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Sidesaddle Cavalry posted:If Wargaming is too P.C. to put the Imperial Japanese flag on their ships, they most certainly will not ever make kamikazis an option. Thanks for reaffirming the fact that anyone who uses the term 'political correctness' seriously is dumb
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May 1, 2015 21:17
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Japanese suicide bombers in video games are offensive to the Japanese. I'm not lying. also the term kamikaze was a misnomer, the correct name for those kinds of squadrons was tokkou (special attack) squadrons you may now flip the other way and start calling me a murderous fascist
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May 1, 2015 22:08
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Sidesaddle Cavalry posted:Japanese suicide bombers in video games are offensive to the Japanese. I'm not lying. Source your quotes you murderous facist.
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May 1, 2015 22:13
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Darwinism posted:Thanks for reaffirming the fact that anyone who uses the term 'political correctness' seriously is dumb Sidesaddle Cavalry fucked around with this message at 22:27 on May 1, 2015 |
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May 1, 2015 22:17
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Sidesaddle Cavalry posted:Okay, I'll bite. Where did I make the incorrect leap in logic? Sidesaddle Cavalry posted:Japanese suicide bombers in video games are offensive to the Japanese. I'm not lying. Source your quotes. "Nazis a humans. People who help people are human. Thus nazis are okay." loving flawless logic as well, doesn't make it right.
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May 1, 2015 22:18
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I'm terrible at this game. So far I'm sailing the Ruskie destroyer Gremyashchy, it has good torps but it's guns are terrible, turn rate is akin to that of a battleship and can't keep up with the ship turn rate (36sec). So it's pretty much torp Only but I often get murdered by cruisers like the Clevland before I have a chance to get close enough. I also played a bit with IJN Battleships, so far I've got a Myogi and I don't like it much. Bombers and torp bombers are very annoying and I can't do much against them, destroyer are almost impossible to hit with the big guns and the secondaries don't hit much. Worst of all, I do poo poo damage against other BB and CL, most hits are 500ish damage even if I randomly get nice 3000 critical hits.
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May 1, 2015 23:08
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Thanks Sidesaddle, I found that same app yesterday and fixed the terrible B52 bomber view of that one reticle I use. It's not super intuitive but good enough. Didn't know you were using the same program.
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May 1, 2015 23:15
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Krogort posted:I'm terrible at this game. I just got into the Kongo and suddenly I'm dropping 10k hits on people at 20km, but in the Myogi I was doing little 500 damage hits. I was thinking its either Over Pen of cruisers and other BB's with paper armour everywhere but the belt or just "glancing" shots against curved surfaces. Either way I am a fat kid in chocolate factory right now driving the Kongo. Even without the aim assist I'm landing hits. The only thing that makes me sad is I have not been saving my ship captains from pervious ships to keep the skills high. I put a Captain in the chair of the Kongo with only the second tier stuff researched, gun traverse. How does that work anyways? I paid 250,000 seabux to make him do something faster...
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May 1, 2015 23:32
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Krogort posted:I'm terrible at this game. The Grem is kind of a distinctive DD. Your torps actually have slightly more range than the range at which you're detected and while the guns turn slow, they also have a higher muzzle velocity and flatter trajectory than those on IJN and USN destroyers, so they're actually more useful for long-range shooting. As for the IJN battleships, the line really starts at the Kongo. Upgrade her engines ASAP and start murdering everything in your cruiser-speed BB. 8*14in, nice AA and the secondaries start to get really useful. Also, always aim at or slightly above the waterline - you want to hit as low as possible below the smokestacks instead of poking holes into the superstructure.
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May 1, 2015 23:34
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NuckmasterJ posted:I just got into the Kongo and suddenly I'm dropping 10k hits on people at 20km, but in the Myogi I was doing little 500 damage hits. I was thinking its either Over Pen of cruisers and other BB's with paper armour everywhere but the belt or just "glancing" shots against curved surfaces. If you retrain, you can pay 200k funbux to cut the amount of experience needed to finish retraining in half. You may as well, since the funbux are plentiful and xp is scarce. You don't actually accumulate xp while you're retraining, and your captain's skills are reduced in effectiveness until its complete (situational awareness doesn't work at all until the captain is fully retrained), so its best to get it out of the way as soon as possible so you can start using your skills again and get more xp to unlock even better ones. On that note, Pyromaniac is a fun skill on destroyers. Since I'm shooting almost exclusively HE on my IJN DDs, better chance for fire is very nice, especially since I wouldn't be making much use of the gun range or AA range on the other skill. For the US DDs, though, I'd heavily consider getting the other skill instead. More range is nice, after all.
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May 2, 2015 00:00
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Don't. Later US DDs have enough range and actually slightly less chance per HE shell to cause fire. Add their higher rate of fire and them using their guns against targets other than DDs and CVs more often and Pyromania is even better for them than for IJN DDs.
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May 2, 2015 00:12
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Magni posted:What I meant was that high-tier KM paper-DD will likely get *more* AA firepower than any DD currently in the game. Radar-directed 55mm autocannons (Gerät 58), 128mm DP guns and I think either 20mm or 37mm autocannons were part of those build plans. And yeah, WG has already come out and made it clear that kamikazes are not going to happen, period. More AA firepower than 12 director aimed 40mm cannon, 12 20mm cannon, and six 127/38s? Krogort posted:So far I'm sailing the Ruskie destroyer Gremyashchy, it has good torps but it's guns are terrible, turn rate is akin to that of a battleship and can't keep up with the ship turn rate (36sec). So it's pretty much torp Only but I often get murdered by cruisers like the Clevland before I have a chance to get close enough. It really really isn't torp only. Get the turn rate crew skill and use guns at longer range, and you'll rack up huge damage.
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May 2, 2015 00:24
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 I guess the extra Amagi is there to balance out the Katori.
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May 2, 2015 00:30
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Dropped the money for a Warspite because I'm dumb and it seems pretty alright, except for the fact that I'm apparently incapable of ever hitting with BB guns. Like with 8 inchers I'll be landing shots no problem all the time but I just can't seem to ever do things with BBs.  So basically what I'm saying is that it's me I'm the terrible BB driver who does nothing all game and gets sunk in a really stupid way.
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May 2, 2015 00:32
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I can't stand in domination games when my pub team makes zero effort to capture the circles. They just steam around, slinging shells at long range at enemy ships and eventually lose because they're too timid.
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May 2, 2015 00:33
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Insert name here posted:Dropped the money for a Warspite because I'm dumb and it seems pretty alright, except for the fact that I'm apparently incapable of ever hitting with BB guns. Like with 8 inchers I'll be landing shots no problem all the time but I just can't seem to ever do things with BBs. I'm having the other problem. I'm getting into the fights and suddenly realize the reason there are 3 ships shooting me is because the rest of my team ran away when they saw there was two ships on the same side as them. Or it is encounter so all the enemy ships pile on the cap circle while mine hover at extreme range and miss all their shots. Oh, and a top tier cruiser deciding that the best course of action is to take the north passage of the ice map. Arriving to do anything after the enemy is 3/4th done with the cap and our team is 3/4ths dead.
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May 2, 2015 00:39
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xthetenth posted:More AA firepower than 12 director aimed 40mm cannon, 12 20mm cannon, and six 127/38s? IIRC 4*2 director-aimed 55mm cannon, 6*2 20mm or 30mm cannon (they weren't really sure wether they could have fit the 30mm guns) and 4*2 128mm DP guns. Only 2*4 torpedo tubes with worse torpedos and it's quite a bigger boat than the Gearing - pretty speedy still, but more sluggish accelleration and turning than any current destroyer. The 55mm guns are the big thing - something like 25% more muzzle velocity and slightly more than double the shell weight compared to the Bofors L/60, but same rate of fire. The 57mm S-60 AA gun the Soviets introduced in the early 50's was partially based on captured prototypes of this thing. Magni fucked around with this message at 01:29 on May 2, 2015 |
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May 2, 2015 00:55
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JuffoWup posted:I'm having the other problem. I'm getting into the fights and suddenly realize the reason there are 3 ships shooting me is because the rest of my team ran away when they saw there was two ships on the same side as them. 
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May 2, 2015 02:36
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xthetenth posted:Speed settings for torps would be pretty cool. Long lances did most of their work by being hellish fast at close range, not super long range with decent speed. (I think they're actually giving fastest speed and longest range from the settings. It didn't help that if you ambushed (or were ambushed by) IJN destroyers at close range their standard response was to  ripple-fire their entire payload in a massive shoal of torpedoey death.
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May 2, 2015 02:55
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Well, that was fun. Ran out of bombers so I just rammed the enemy Ranger with my Saipan instead. Thus ending the match in a win. It was actually a fair carrier match for once too. One Saipan and one Ranger on each side.
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May 2, 2015 02:57
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MoraleHazard posted:I can't stand in domination games when my pub team makes zero effort to capture the circles. They just steam around, slinging shells at long range at enemy ships and eventually lose because they're too timid. I have similar issues. With my carrier, staying in the ABC or HIJ lines, I often end up being closer to the action than BB's. They just hang all the way back and I get spotted and attacked non stop. So now I start the matches telling them that any BB which stays within those lines, will be considered a traitor and promptly sunk by me. I like sinking green ships more than red ships too, so it all works out in the end.
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May 2, 2015 04:01
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Someone should get me TS access at some point so I can shoot botes with gunes, just got a Cleveland and a Fuso and I'm really starting to feel the pressure for decent teammates.
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May 2, 2015 04:15
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