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> Establish Roman Empire
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May 2, 2015 16:33
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| # ? Jun 7, 2024 09:06 |
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 STATE OF THE WORLD, 1934 It's clear to you where all of this is headed. Within five years, another war will come. Within ten, all the world will be Oaxaca. Within twenty, the last flickering embers of humanity will be extinguished-- by bullets, by bombs, by chlorine gas, by disease and deprivation, by atomic horrors whose names you dare not utter. How did it come to this? Was all of history— its emperors and empresses, its kings and queens, its revolutionaries and reactionaries— all the great thinkers and sages, artists and philosophers, prophets and saints— nothing but the prelude to armageddon? Was it all for nothing? Or was there one point where it all went off the rails? A single factor which sealed the fate of humanity? You think back. Further. No, further. No, further still.  I'm holding a book in my hands. It is a history of my reign. It is written by my daughter, Iouliana. It is written by my daughter, Anna. I fought a long, hard war with Robert Guiscard and his Normans— salvation only came when we bribed Henry IV Salian to attack the Normans in Italy. I fought a brief war with Robert Guiscard and Normans, whose army was cornered in the Balkans and cut down where it stood. I fought an alliance between the Pechenegs and Bogomilist heretics. I fought a war against my own doukes when Doux Georgios Palaiologos of Epirus sought to place Andronikos Doukas on the throne. I appealed to the West for help reclaiming Anatolia from the Seljuks. Answering my call was Pope Urban II, who called for a Crusade against the Seljuks. Answering the call was a host of mercenaries and my brother emperor Henry IV Salian. I reclaimed much of the Anatolian coast in the aftermath, although the Crusaders' ultimate goal was the establishment of the Kingdom of Jersusalem. The Crusaders never passed through the Roman Empire at all, and our weakness was merely a pretext for Pope Celestine III's followers to try to seize the Holy Land. They were massacred by the armies of Sultan Ahmad Seljuk, and the whole enterprise ended in failure. The kings of the west turned their back on Celestine, and antipopes sprung up throughout Christendom. The Crusaders of Urban II, after fighting their way through Anatolia, drove the Seljuks from the Holy Land and brought Jersusalem back to Christendom. I lived to a ripe old age beside my wife Irene. Irene was cut down before my eyes by the cruel blades of the Ḥashshāshīn, and I married a succession of Norsewomen I cared little for, but had some useful diplomatic or administrative skills. My attention wandered; I paid the price when my own body turned against me. I fought the Seljuks until the very end, even as I sickened and died and thoughts of the succession haunted me. I was succeeded by my son Meletios, who accomplished little and died young. I was succeeded by my son Ioannes, who carried on my work and led Rome into a new era of brilliance. Alexios I is the key, you realize. It was under his guidance that the fortunes of a Roman Empire teetering on the brink of eradication were revived. It was during his reign that the Byzantines embarked on their long conquest of the Mediterranean. Without him, the idea of Rome would have died in the medieval ages, rather than being borne forth by the False Saint, the Black Emperor, Kaisarios of Rhodes, Valeria Imperatrix. Without him, the territories of Byzantium would have been dispersed into a dozens of independent and free nations rather than enduring as a chameleon empire constantly seeking to remake Europe in its own ever-shifting image. You know what you have to do. ROMAE DELENDA EST
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May 2, 2015 19:57
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Is the Sultanate Of Rum Mega-Campaign actually happening?  (I am p sure it should just be "Roma delenda est" though  )(unless it's a reference to plural Romes meaning both Roman empires in which case it's "Romae delendae sunt") e: Rumzilla: Destroy All Romes Melee
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May 2, 2015 20:06
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Rincewind posted:You know what you have to do.  
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May 2, 2015 20:22
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We alt-alt-history now.
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May 2, 2015 20:25
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We must clip the eagle's wings.
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May 2, 2015 20:26
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To defeat Rome, we must become Rome.   
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May 2, 2015 20:56
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AJ_Impy posted:To defeat Rome, we must become Rome. Yes, but if we're going to do that, we're gonna have to do another mega-campaign that starts in attilla: total war, because otherwise we'll be imitating the french.
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May 2, 2015 21:05
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NewMars posted:Yes, but if we're going to do that, we're gonna have to do another mega-campaign that starts in attilla: total war, because otherwise we'll be imitating the french. I'd like to see a campaign starting in Europa Universalis: Rome and carry on from there. Prevent the formation of France and work up from there...
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May 2, 2015 21:09
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AJ_Impy posted:I'd like to see a campaign starting in Europa Universalis: Rome and carry on from there. Prevent the formation of France and work up from there... I'd just like to see another EU:rome LP in general, really.
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May 2, 2015 21:11
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I know one possible answer: Carthage must destroy Rome.
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May 2, 2015 21:17
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loquacius posted:Is the Sultanate Of Rum Mega-Campaign actually happening? People called Romae they go the house.  (Also, )
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May 2, 2015 23:47
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 From the Alexiad of _______ Komnene In 1081, my father rode into Constantinople in triumph. My grandmother, the great Anna Dalassene, Augusta of Rome and herself worthy of consideration in a great history of her own exploits— had cannily out-maneuvered the hated usurper Nikephoros III Botaneiates at every turn until Alexios and his brother Isaac could bring their troops to the capital and restore long-absent dignity to the office of Emperor.  My father and Anna Dalassene now turned their attention to the state of the empire they inherited. It was a Rome in crisis, still reeling from the losses at Manzikert, the advance of the Seljuk Turks, and the ill-rule of their predecessors. Clearly, the restoration of Rome to stability— much less glory— would be trying work  Yet I feel my father was equal to the ask. A brilliant administrator, a talented general, animated by Christian zeal yet tempered by kindness; proud in bearing yet diligent in the execution of his duties. My own connection to this great man is obviously quite close. However, should I have elected to downplay his manifold talents and strengths I feel I would be derelict in my duty as an impartial historian. That Alexios Komnenos was one of the greatest men to ever wear the crown of Rome is an indisputable fact, and no false modesty shall compel me to deny it.  Yet many of the men in charge of the themes of the empire resented my father's accession to glory, and placed their own dynastic interests above those of Rome. The Doukas family, particularly, remembered when Rome belonged to them.   There were more pressing concerns, however.  Robert Guiscard and his son Bohemund— the vultures of the house of de Hauteville— sensed the faltering strength of the empire and the instability of its new emperor's administration. Beneath a civilized, Christian veneer, the heart of bloodthirsty Vikings beat in Robert's breast. The eddas of old hung unsung in the air as his fleet sailed towards the Balkans.  Roger of Sicily, for his part, seemed content to consolidate Norman holdings in Sicily— the latest in a long chain of barbarians to squat on the inheritance of Rome.  The Eternal City itself was still part of the temporal domain of the Papal State, as personified by Gregory VII. The Western Church was presently riven by the great Investiture Controversy. While the True Church was besieged by heathens from the east, these schismatics squabbled over the rights of kings and popes in the comfortable west.  Domenico Selvo, who had sought to cultivate an atmosphere of peace and stability for the Most Serene Republic of Venice, now found himself forced to deal with the destabilizing influence of Norman expansionism in southern Italy. This made him consider the proposition of an alliance with the Roman empire, reasoning that my father and himself had a common enemy in the person of Robert Guiscard. He had yet to make a decision, however.  Dmitar-Zvonimir Trpimirović was a close ally of the Pope and the Normans, seeking to undermine the Orthodox Church and the Roman empire at every turn.  Ladislaus Árpád ruled with chivalry and piety, striving to stitch a nation shattered by civil war and political violence back together. He was more well-disposed towards the empire than his Croatian neighbor.  The Tengri Pecheneg tribes of the steppes lay in wait, eager to despoil the lands of Christendom.  Henry IV Salian, King of the Germans, was the Pope's chief adversary in the Investiture Controversy. His false claims to to translatio imperii aside, Henry was without a doubt one of the most powerful rules in all Christendom. His sprawling empire would be a crucial asset to any who could claim his friendship.  (OOC: I have absolutely no idea why he's called Henry III here, since this is the 1081 bookmark so Henry IV Salian really ought to be Holy Roman Emperor. Oh well!) Canute IV brooded in Denmark, bitter over the collapse of Danish rule in England and its seizure by the Norman conquerer William. He dreamed of reclaiming what his granduncle Canute the Great had once called his own.  On paper, Philip Capet, king of France, presided over a truly formidable kingdom. In fact, however, "France" was a realm delineated by the bloody power struggles of Philip's so-called "vassals"— most infamously, the Norman conquerers of England.  William the Conquerer still reigned as both King of England and Duke of Normandy. He had put down every Anglo-Saxon revolt, rebellion, and plot that challenged Norman rule, and the Norman conquest was looking increasingly permanent.  He was aided in his administration by his half-brother, Odo de Conteville, Earl of Kent. Both William and Odo realized that the chaotic kingdom of England needed a more unified administrative structure, and Odo hoped that in the future the de Conteville name would become synonymous with a strong English kingdom.  Malcolm III Dunkeld of Scotland saw little choice but to acede to the new Norman status quo in England, his attempts to take advantage of the chaotic aftermath of the Battle of Hastings thwarted at every turn by William and Odo.  Let us not think that the struggle between the Roman empire and the Seljuks were the only battlefield upon which Christian and Heathen fought— the Iberian peninsula was still divided between Christian kings and the remnants of al-Andalus. Alsonso the Brave, king of León and Castile, was this age's foremost leader in the great Reconquista of the peninsula.  Northwestern Africa was dominated by Yusuf ibn Tashfin's al-Murabitun empire. They were crucial allies of the rules of al-Andalus in their struggle to survive the irresistible tide of the Reconquista.  The Iberians were not the only enemies of al-Murabitun, however. Kambine Diaresso was a focal point of resistance to military, economic, and political encroachment by the al-Murabituns into the empire of Ghana.  The prodigiously long-reigning Fatimid Caliph, Al-Mustansir Billah, found what was left of the once sprawling Fatimid Caliphate facing an economic crisis as the treasury— and the priceless books contained therein— was sold off piece-by-piece to meet the demands of avaricious Turkish mercenaries.  So let us now turn our attention to the Turks themselves, for even given the invasion of the Normans, the intrigues of the Popes, the scheming of the strategoi of the empire, etc., they were still by far the most potent existential threat faced by Rome. Suleiman ibn Qutulmish had failed in his attempts to usurp the Seljuk empire for himself, but still ruled Anatolia as the Sultan of Rum. He built on the great victory at Mazikert, seizing Nicaea and Nicomedia. He furthermore regularly interfered in Roman governance, supporting a series of usurpers and traitors-- supporting first the vile Nikephoros Botaneiates before turning coat and supporting the claim of Nikephoros Milissenus, who opened the gates of Nicaea to Suleiman.  Yet even Suleiman's power paled before that of his cousin, the great and terrible Malik-Shah, sultan of the Seljuk empire, heir to the conquests of Alp-Arslan, and nigh-undisputed master of the near east.  The Seljuks were not the only Turkish dynasty of note, however. Sultan Ibrahim of Ghzana ruled a realm which constituted the gateway between Persia and India.   West of the Ghazanids, the Soomra Kingdom constituted a vanguard for Islam in the subcontinent.  Karandeva Solanki presided over a rich maritime kingdom.  Udayaditya of the Paramara Kingdom was a patron of art, literature, and culture, and enjoyed a perhaps inflated reputation as the liberator of Dhara from a "foreign yoke". I propose sending him to England to liberate the Anglo-Saxon masses from their own foreign yoke.  Vikramaditya IV ruled the sprawling Kalyani Calukya state, but I know little of his individual character.  Ramapala of Pala, like my father, was tasked with reviving the flagging fortunes of a dying empire in the twilight of its glories.  CHRISTENDOM  AFRICA  THE SELJUK EMPIRE AND THE NEAR EAST  THE STEPPES  INDIA  WORLD MAP  The time in which you find yourself seems subtly different than the one you remember. Was the Alexiad you studied in school really so well-informed about the political situation in India? For some reason, you'd always assumed there was little to no contact between India and Europe until, oh, 1444 or so.  You also thought that Alexios I was some kind of lumpy potato man, rather than closely resembling a fine Greek marble bust from antiquity. And you had no idea his crown was so ostentatious.   Still, the overall situation seems more or less like you assumed it would be. And you have one crucial asset nobody else around you has— hindsight. You know that whoever you throw in your lot with take your counsel seriously, even if it runs contrary to their inclinations. At least, you assume that's the reason for the power of persuasion you seem to wield. And the fact that everyone can understand your speech? The natural product of a well-rounded Classical education in Greek, Latin, and Arabic, surely. So now the question is simply this: Who do you throw in your lot with? As any scholar of Byzantine history knows, the empire's worst enemies often came from within its ranks. You were pretty sure that the leaders of the empire's themes were called doukes, rather than strategoi, but you know for a fact Nikephoros of Epirus led a revolt that nearly destroyed the Komnenian renaissance before it began. Perhaps you should ##advise Nikephoros Palaiologos in hopes his enterprise will succeed this time. In actual history, the advance of Rum into Byzantium was quickly checked, with the Anatolian coast being reconquered by Alexios early in his reign. Little more lay in Rum's future save decline and annexation at the hands of the Seljuk Empire proper. Perhaps, however, if you ##advise Suleyman Seljuk, this fate can be avoided. Or you could simply cut out the middleman and aid Malik-Shah himself in bringing the might of the Seljuk Empire to bear against the Byzantines. Who knows? A strong Seljuk empire might even prove able to resist the later advances of the Mongols, which in turn would prevent the invasion of the Ming Frontier Army, and completely re-write the history of the Near West! The only way to be sure, however, is to ##advise Malik-Shah Seljuk. Finally, one idea comes from left field. (It occurs to you that the concept of 'left field' may become meaningless should your mission be successful. But baseball is a small sacrifice when put agains the survival of humanity. Henry IV Salian was a great ally of Alexios I, and it was only by lending the strength of the Holy Roman Empire to the Byzantine cause that Alexios' empire survived. What if Henry IV could be persuaded, somehow, to turn that strength against the Byzantines? The only way to know for sure is to ##advise Henry IV Salian OOC: Optionally, provide an (out of character, CK2-mechanics-based) plan for any of these characters to destroy the Byzantine Empire (or at least prevent its resurgence). I've tried a few of these starts as test games, and it didn't go well.  The intermission will only be a generation or two long, so the clock is ticking!
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May 3, 2015 00:53
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##advise Nikephoros Palaiologos 1) Seize power. 2) Upon seizing power, create as many kingdoms as possible. 3) Destroy the Byzantine Empire title. 4) Spin off every kingdom except Greece to dynasty members as independent realms. 5) Use console commands to remake your realm as the Most Serene Republic of Greece 6) Make a new Black Sea focused trading empire.
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May 3, 2015 01:26
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The true dialectic of history cannot be shaken loose for want of a nail. Regardless of your vote, take heed: baseball will not be lost by your actions. These words of comfort given, I vote to ##Advise Malik-Shah Seljuk. Our goal is the elimination of the idea of Rome, and it seems that all other candidates are poisoned by this, the dankest of memes. The Holy Roman Emperor; the Sultan of "Rum"; even Nikephoros has been raised since birth in the Caesarean cesspit. The one true Seljuk can bring back an ideal far greater and more ancient than petty Rome: Persia. Let the lords and peasants of Greece once again tremble at our might! Let our armies finally wash their feet in the Adriatic! And if the world must cling to Empire for safety - let it not settle for second best. PERSUA
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May 3, 2015 01:30
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##advise Henry IV Salian 1) invite a pretender to the Byzantine throne to court 2) kill his wife 3) marry one of your daughters to him matrilineally 4) press his claim 5) ??? 6) Have translatio imperii confirmed by your new best friend the Byzantine Emperor 7) Restore the proper Rome and avert Catholicism's slide into obscurity
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May 3, 2015 01:49
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I think the darkest timeline is whichever one you're not in. ##advise Malik-Shah Seljuk
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May 3, 2015 01:51
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Hrm, I think the best bet here is to ##advise Nikephoros Palaiologos. As for the plan, I haven't really played since Charlemagne because the game was just becoming too hard for my computer to run properly, but here's a rough sketch on what I'd do: 1) Start by getting a faction going. Doesn't really matter what kind of faction. Try figuring something out the AI will like - I seem to remember that they liked lowering CA the most, then changes to succession, then claimants, but that changes depending on the claimant. If you can find a very popular claimant, go with him instead. 2) Build support using your Spymaster. Try to get strong vassals in your faction fast - time is your enemy, the emperor only needs to hit you with the anti-faction stick once and you're hosed. 3a) If you can get enough support going and the empire is under attack by Rum (or still by the Normans and they still have a decent army), hit that button immediately and just concentrate on loving up the emperor's forces. You're not here to win, you're here to make him lose. 3b) If that plan fails, you need to get creative. Start plotting to assassinate the emperor, try to somehow rival him (maybe gently caress his wife?) and duel him, anything to cause a succession. As the emperor, successions are your worst enemy. 4) Whatever you do to cause chaos, don't take power for yourself. Your strongest suit when causing internal chaos is the fact that you're not at the top. Just keep loving with whoever is the current emperor, and the pieces should fall together pretty well. Remember to expand yourself as well, pick off some counts if you can, make sure the weight you throw around is as big as it can get, and make sure you're a constant thorn in the emperor's side. 5) When the Muslim hordes are bearing down on the empire, don't forget that you have the instant "gently caress you" independence declaration CB at your disposal to maybe swing the balance in the Muslims' favor. Again, you win when he loses. 6) Your goal is to create a situation where the emperor is weak enough that the squabbling dukes get into the situation where they're strong enough to take the emperor on if a few band together, leading to a constant state of rebellion that the surrounding enemies can just snip pieces off of. And since you're at the center of it all, you can always throw your weight behind the rebels to give them that extra edge. I'm also going to refer to my LP as Herbert Karling of Vermandois in the CK2 tutorial thread - it's about similar things, loving up your liege's situation as a vassal and being the one that actually controls the fate of the realm. A fair bit of the stuff doesn't really apply anymore, but the general theories are still sound.
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May 3, 2015 02:15
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##advise Nikephoros Palaiologos No plan, just improvise.
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May 3, 2015 02:21
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I'm going to put my vote on the most out-there candidate possible: The Count of Chuy, the only manichean ruler in the world. Who else then a man of the lord of light to bring down the dark empire?
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May 3, 2015 02:24
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We have to go back further! Advise the Ostrogoths! The fact that doukes are now strategoi calls interesting questions into the legitimacy of what history has been telling us for the duration of this game. Clearly all the Doukes' Revolts were Imperial propaganda, designed to arouse support for absolutism! Raserys fucked around with this message at 02:37 on May 3, 2015 |
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May 3, 2015 02:31
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##advise Henry IV Salian
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May 3, 2015 02:49
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Raserys posted:We have to go back further! Not far enough I say! We should go back to EU:Rome and make sure the empire never even happens!
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May 3, 2015 02:53
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I would like to ##advise Malik-Shah Seljuk.Raserys posted:We have to go back further! Ofaloaf is way ahead of you.
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May 3, 2015 04:08
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Freudian posted:The true dialectic of history cannot be shaken loose for want of a nail. Regardless of your vote, take heed: baseball will not be lost by your actions. Only ##Malik Shah can end it before it begins. And, perhaps, give the world something greater!
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May 3, 2015 04:12
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##advise Suleyman Seljuk only a strong islamic ruler can end this unholy blight
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May 3, 2015 04:19
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##advise Malik-Shah Seljuk
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May 3, 2015 04:43
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##advise Malik-Shah Seljuk
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May 3, 2015 05:01
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Alikchi posted:Ofaloaf is way ahead of you. I know, I linked to the LP as well
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May 3, 2015 06:23
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Alikchi posted:Ofaloaf is way ahead of you. You should check his link.  ##Advise Suleyman Seljuk
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May 3, 2015 06:30
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##advise Malik-Shah Seljuk Strategy? Same one the Byzantines used historically -- just keep sending assassins after their kings until the realm becomes an unstable mess, then sweep in and take what you can. EDIT: Hard mode: Convert the Byzantine Emperor to Islam.
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May 3, 2015 07:31
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I remember the Palas. They were the subject of my first LP.  #advise Malik Shah Seljuk
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May 3, 2015 07:35
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## ##Advise Malik-Shah Seljuk. We shall have a whole dynasty of heroic lions, feasting upon the corpse of rome.
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May 3, 2015 07:54
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 ##Advise Nikephoros Palaiologos GunnerJ TheMcD ZearothK  ##Advise Suleyman Selçuklu TheFlyingLlama Hitlers Gay Secret  ##Advise Malik-Shah Selçuklu Freudian crimea Alikchi Lord Cyrahzax StrifeHira tabris Frontspac Mr.Morgenstern GSD  ##Advise Henry IV Salian sheep-dodger RZApublican ##Advise the Count of Chuy, the last Manichean ruler left in 1081, and therefore probably extremely popular in modern Transoxiana NewMars ##Advise Raserys (Okay, the portraits of Nikephoros and Suleyman are just some period-appropriate randos. These cute votecount posts are harder when there's actual historical figures running around, OK?)
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May 3, 2015 08:35
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##advise Suleyman Seljuk because the Seljuks proper are too drat strong to keep it entertaining; I have no idea what you should do but it's probably going to involve not getting gangbanged I was kind of hoping the Fatimids would be an option.
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May 3, 2015 09:14
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##Advise Malik-Shah Selçuklu Islam is the light and all that. I say we subjugate Rum, then "Rome" (where that greek dude lives), then Rome (where the guy with the cool hat lives)
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May 3, 2015 09:50
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##Advise Nikephoros Palailogos to raise his banners in rebellion immediately! An unexpected civil war right now at this critical juncture, right at the heart of empire, could well catastrophically alter the course of history. External threats are all well and good, but Rome faced them in the natural course of things. But a rebellion out of nowhere where there was none before is something new.
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May 3, 2015 10:24
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##Advise Henry IV Salian The ancap Germany failed to destroy Byzantium. The Mullerist Germany failed to destroy Byzantium. It falls to the Holy Roman Empire to succeed where their descendants will inevitably fail.
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May 3, 2015 10:49
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##Advise Henry IV Salian Dude was bros with Dante. Dante, motherfuckers!
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May 3, 2015 11:26
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| # ? Jun 7, 2024 09:06 |
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##Advise Suleyman Selçuklu Edit: I changed my mind because I am fickle TheNabster fucked around with this message at 11:09 on May 4, 2015 |
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May 3, 2015 11:37
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